Showing females

[Dogman]

I have a proven female that has won one conformation show.i want to breed her soon.do y'all think I should finish showing her then breed her or will it take a lot out of her. Or can I go ahead and breed her and take her out after she weans the pups like months later.please give me reasons to y I should or shouldn't do it thanks a lot

[OGDOGG]

How valuable is she to you? Breed her if you want more of her in your yard. You never know what's going to happen to her. You just have to start weaning the pups early like around 3 weeks and have them off around 4-4.5 weeks. Then wait til after her next heat to show her again.

[thefoodchain]

There are 2 trains of thoughts in this as for an approach. The first is just 1 that goes into it. There is a stud that is later on in life and breeding career and he might start missing if I don't act this cycle. Second you really would like something of her to secure the future of your program cause just in case her show career is ended. With these 2 as a base line you can't go wrong and you won't feel cheated. This is my opinion on the subject.

[QCKLime]

If you're confident in your female, there's no reason not to breed her in between shows. I was told GRCH Tina whelped a litter in between every one of her's, so the thought that breeding takes too much out of them isn't factual.

[OGDOGG]

Some people make the mistake of bringing a female back out too soon after welping a litter. They don't realize that when a bitch gets pregnant, her body softened up and is not the same as before. It's almost like starting all over again. She needs months nd months of exercise just to get her body back into shape. That's when they thought "breeding took a lot out of her" yes it did, but it's your job to bring her back to how she was before and not let her just sit on the chain until you contract her.

[Officially Retired]

There are a lot of factors to the decision.

Every bitch isn't the same, every litter is the same, and not everyone pulls their pups off the bitch at the same time.

For example, a 3-pup litter removed from a young bitch when they turn 4 weeks old will not take the same toll on that bitch as would a 9-pup litter where the pups are left to feast on her until 8 weeks of age.

Therefore, a little common sense and quick/vigilant whelping will go a long way toward keeping a bitch in top form through breeding ... whereas the typical whelping protocol can be a very hard/long process for a bitch to recover from. This is especially true if worsened by bad worming protocol.

Jack

[FrostyPaws]

I personally don't breed anything until the dog is finished with the entire process.

[bxpits]

my mylee bitch was bred after i rolled her into a grch. 5 months after she whelped a litter of 9 pups she won her first.
breeding does not affect performance as long as their is an intelligent game plan and focus on conditioning and nutrition

[montycash]

my input is breed her if you feel she is worth breeding and the then whelp the pups correctly like jack book says but i have a partner motto " if a dog showing show let it show " " if a dog breeding breed the dog" don't mix and match

[EWO]

depends on the dogs and what one is looking for form the dogs. Regardless of what theory one goes with the idea is to have the dog just about perfect on show night. If she raised 7 or 8 or 9 pups and fed them til 7-8 weeks it will take her longer to get back 'perfect' than is she raised 2 or three or 4 for 4 weeks or so. If she is a bitch you can't imagine going forward without then breed her now and let her offspring tell her story. If you have both her sisters and she is by far the best. Come out with her and breed the others. If you go with your gut, right or wrong, good or bad, it will be better than going in half-assed or going off another man's thoughts. You have to answer to yourself in these dogs. EWO

[Furious_Ford]

How valuable is she to you? Breed her if you want more of her in your yard. You never know what's going to happen to her. You just have to start weaning the pups early like around 3 weeks and have them off around 4-4.5 weeks. Then wait til after her next heat to show her again.

This is an interesting thread cuz I know first hand of a situation this subject pertains too...so I'm curious how does it affect a gyps hormones, & finishing drive in others opinions!?
I know of a great proven gyp whom was a finisher that was bred, whelped her litter, was hooked for another show, & pretty much started work by the time the pups were weaned...time came for the show, & that day she seemed herself, but she lost her finishing drive, & interest n walked away from a W wagging her tail, & acting happy n friendly like!
So my question is would you call this gyp a cur, or look at it as only a critical mistake made by her owners, & not of her fault??
I've been told that you gotta go by the 6mth after rule like stated above...Also I have been told you gotta wait 100 days after a heat, or weaning a litter so their hormones can balance out! Anybody ever experience this or have opinions on the affects of hormones??

Again like I said I find this a very interesting subject!

[OGDOGG]

I've noticed the same thing happened with some females. I know for a fact that when a bitch gives birth, her body becomes soft and she will get hurt and possibly quit if she was shown too early. I also noticed that when most bitches go in heat, they are friendly as f***, for several more weeks after they are done with their heat. I also know of some bitches who don't care if they are in heat, their finishing drive are still there. So it really depends on the bitch.
But what you mentioned about that proven bitch, it could be the owners fault. The bitch's mind and body wasn't ready for battle yet. Hopefully the owner realized what he did and give her another chance.
What i usually do is roll all my showing bitches around 5-6 months after they give birth just to see where they're at. If they still have that drive, then I'll go ahead with a pre-keep(usually that pre-keep will bring her right into her next heat) if not, then ill put her weight out. If she's not ready, I'll wait longer. I have a bitch who I had to wait for a year before she started acting like she wanted to work again.

[FrostyPaws]

Another way is to simply look at your bitches, when they're in heat, during the schooling process. It won't take long, and it's not anything serious. The main objective is to determine how your bitch performs during being in heat.

As for the aforementioned female, I couldn't really say without knowing the dog and other things. It could be the owner's fault OR it could be the females. I've never owned a dog that changed what she was, performance wise, due to having pups. I don't really think I've ever seen that from anyone else's females that I'm familiar with. That seems odd in of itself, in my experience, and that alone would make me question the female and my judgement.

We, as owners, have the responsibility to make sure the dogs are up to the task before we put them in those situations. Take the time to do the small things to make sure all is well when it comes time for the big thing.

[OGDOGG]

Frosty have you ever seen a bitch in heat compete before? And if you have, how did she or they do?

[skipper]

I have seen bitches in heat with no difference what so ever. And the next female might give you a big headache just to come into the heat next days. Its so damn induvidual. I usually refer to those females as females who fights like males. I like em alot.

[FrostyPaws]

OG, I've competed with 3 females in standing heat, ready to be bred. All three of them won, showing the exact same as they had when they weren't in heat.

I've also looked at some during schooling, that were nowhere near the same dog as they were when not in heat. In those females that weren't the same, I could tell inside of 5 minutes what I wanted to see, so I simply put them up and stored that in my memory.

[OGDOGG]

When my bitches come in heat, I could tell just by the way some of them act that I know they won't have the same mentality as they would have when not in heat. I'm just gonna play it safe and keep doing what I've been doing. I would hate to lose because I didn't want to pay the forfeit.

[FrostyPaws]

I understand. All I'm saying is that if you want to know, for SURE, just do it when the dogs are being schooled. It's a controlled environment, and it takes the guess work out of the entire process. My bitches don't act any different when in heat, aside from flagging, than they do when not in heat.

Smiley won in 2.05. Ch.Banger won her 2nd in 44, and Ch.Pokey won her 3rd in 1.00.

[OGDOGG]

8)I'll give that a try next time.

[Furious_Ford]

I have seen bitches in heat with no difference what so ever. And the next female might give you a big headache just to come into the heat next days. Its so damn induvidual. I usually refer to those females as females who fights like males. I like em alot.

Have had a few gyps that were a lot like males myself, have 1 now I really like, & 1 I had in the past was so male like she lifted her leg to piss, & would hump your leg!

They remind me of certain lines of gamefowl I had grew up with, you would get hens that had to be kept away from other hens, they grew long spurs like a rooster, & would crack the back of their wings n crow like a rooster...but would still breed, sit on eggs, hatch, & raise chicks just like any other hen would!

But back to the subject...yes it does seem like an idividual thing, as I have had gyps that remained their normal selves in heat, & gyps that acted very differently when in heat! I just choose to stay away from activities when their in heat, or after whelping, I mean if I made the choice to breed them then why should they further prove themselves after being bred...they already proved enough for me to make the choice to breed them in the first place!
I guess its a "to each his own kinda thing"...you know!?

[Furious_Ford]

I've noticed the same thing happened with some females. I know for a fact that when a bitch gives birth, her body becomes soft and she will get hurt and possibly quit if she was shown too early. I also noticed that when most bitches go in heat, they are friendly as f***, for several more weeks after they are done with their heat. I also know of some bitches who don't care if they are in heat, their finishing drive are still there. So it really depends on the bitch.
But what you mentioned about that proven bitch, it could be the owners fault. The bitch's mind and body wasn't ready for battle yet. Hopefully the owner realized what he did and give her another chance.
What i usually do is roll all my showing bitches around 5-6 months after they give birth just to see where they're at. If they still have that drive, then I'll go ahead with a pre-keep(usually that pre-keep will bring her right into her next heat) if not, then ill put her weight out. If she's not ready, I'll wait longer. I have a bitch who I had to wait for a year before she started acting like she wanted to work again.

No they didn't give her another chance...their bruised egos couldn't handle it, & they labeled her a cur!!!
Thanks to EVERYONE for their honest responses...like I said I just find it an interesting subject, & already have my own thoughts but don't mind hearing different views, & experiences!