Can a dog lose its abilty to bite hard bringing it under its weight.

[R2L]

Like the title says, if you'd bring a dog 500/600 grams under his ideal weight, would it lose its ability to bite hard? Got two people telling two different things.

ps: What other things can you guys mention about bringing a dog under his ideal weight besides being to low on fat reserves to sustain a long time.

ps2: This might be a fun one, would you rather bring a dog 500 grams under or above his ideal weight (if you had to), depending on which type of dog?

Of course this is all theoretical

Gr

[skipper]

I have seen this with my own eyes on more than one occasion. If you bring a dog lover than his best weight his traits may get weaken. If he doesn't loose any ability you haven't fought him on the right weight before.

[scary]

That's why it's his ideal weight. Because that is were his BEST bite etc is.

[skipper]

Finding the proper weight is one of the hardest thing there is in dogs.

[bulldogsrus]

Finding decent people in dogs is the hardest thing in dogs LOL

[skipper]

Sadly that is THE truth

[OGDOGG]

The biting power of a dog depends on what weight he went into, how he was conditioned during the keep, how well the keep was, and the size of his opponent. They both could come in at the same weight but if the other dog was a bigger dog overall, your dogs mouth won't be as affective. Bringing in a dog at it's best weight will have him bite hard for the whole deal. Under weight, and he'll bite hard for a short period of time then tire out. Over weight, he'll bite the hardest but he will also run hot sooner.
During his keep, if he is over worked then hell lose his mouth. And if his mouth doesn't get enough rest before the deal, then he wont have much mouth.
I wouldn't use the spring pole in his keep at all just to be on the safe side.
There's 3 things I don't do in a keep: No jumping, no spring pole, and no pulling on walks. He will most likely get hurt in those exercises than doing anything else.

[tasoschatz]

What we people tend to forget some times is that 500-600 gr for a, lets say 17kg, dog, is like 3 kilos for an 85kg male athlete or 3.6% body weight deviation from the optimum, so it should make a difference in ability during competition.

[R2L]

thats unanimous then. that is what i like about this board. you can't get away with dumb advice.

good point about the springpole ogdogg.

true that taso, my bad. i was thinking about 20-22 kg dogs.

[OGDOGG]

Wouldn't it be less complicated to go by pounds?
Half under, half over? :lol:

[R2L]

hehe we hardly ever use the word pound, only on the market.

by the way, how long do you think it takes for mouth to fully recover when overworked. i think a dog i recently picked up was put on the spring pole way to much.

[OGDOGG]

It depends how long and how often the dog was worked on the spring pole. From my experience, if I worked a dog for 30-45 minutes 3x a week, for a 6 week keep, and stop 1 week before show, the dog wouldn't recover in time. It would take a dog at least 3 weeks to recover with no mouth work. You also have to realize that even after he's done working the hide 3 weeks out and finish his keep on the mill, which also play a part in putting extra work on his mouth from just blowing out air, will slow down the healing process. So once I realized how much straining a spring pole could do to my dogs mouth, but also know how important it is for them to be on it too, I will only let them work on it 10-15 minutes 2-3x a week during the off season(when they're not in a keep) Once they are locked and put on a keep, id stop using the spring pole. Ever since I started this strategy my dogs showed more mouth and kept their holds longer than before when I used to use a spring pole in their keeps.

[R2L]

Thank you for saving me the time to find out. Think its a good way, the dog sure won't lose all benefits from working the pole in 8 weeks time.
It also tells me a little more about some dog iv seen recently ;)

[FrostyPaws]

Ultimately, dogs are different. I use the springpole throughout my keeps, if a dog will use them, and I've never lost any mouth. A hard biting dog brought at the correct weight, properly fed and rested is going to bite hard regardless of what you do with the dog. Franklin got a carpetmill, a slat, springpole, and flirtpole work everyday he was worked in a keep. He didn't lose anything in any department. If a dog will actively work all 6 apparatus that I use in a keep, they will get all 6. Maybe they won't get all 6 everyday, but they will get all 6 on a regular basis.

Keeps come down to man's understanding of the dog, the dog's willingness to work, and the man's ability to know when the dog is completely ready to work and when it isn't.

[OGDOGG]

Keeps come down to man's understanding of the dog, the dog's willingness to work, and the man's ability to know when the dog is completely ready to work and when it isn't.
Very good point. After every keep, one should know more about what worked and what didn't with that certain dog. It's also a + to have a good eye and the willingness to learn more from both conditioner and dog. To be successful one has to try something new or figure out a way to over come his dogs weakness.

[EWO]

It depends on the dog. Each of them can be a little different than the next. It is best to have a general plan based on knowing the individual dog. I try to keep the dog on or at below his ideal weight throughout the entire process. My attempt is to have the dog no more than one pound over or one pound under from beginning to end. After a hard work out the dog can drop as much as 2-3 pounds. If this weight loss effects his strength in a negative passion then I more than likely should have picked his weight one pound higher and started from there. Until one has the 'eye' it is safe to do a practice run on the dog to see where ideal working weight is for that dog. Missing he weight low means he will be even lower after an hour of hard work. Meaning the mouth will as well body strength will fade as time goes on, an odds are not where it should have been from the beginning. Come in over and the mouth will be there for a short period but carrying the extra weight will also have adverse effects. Meaning an overweight dog will fade as well, in both mouth and body strength. I have no real data on his but I believe a dog that is on his weight and in shape will better one that had his weight missed or picked incorrectly. Or, if it is a close decision the one that started off with the better show weight choice will last. EWO

[waccamaw]

Would Mike Tyson lose his knock out punch if he came in at 150 lb.or 175 .you betcha .

[EWO]

The last line speaks volumes. Pretty much answers a boat load of questions. EWO





Ultimately, dogs are different. I use the springpole throughout my keeps, if a dog will use them, and I've never lost any mouth. A hard biting dog brought at the correct weight, properly fed and rested is going to bite hard regardless of what you do with the dog. Franklin got a carpetmill, a slat, springpole, and flirtpole work everyday he was worked in a keep. He didn't lose anything in any department. If a dog will actively work all 6 apparatus that I use in a keep, they will get all 6. Maybe they won't get all 6 everyday, but they will get all 6 on a regular basis.

Keeps come down to man's understanding of the dog, the dog's willingness to work, and the man's ability to know when the dog is completely ready to work and when it isn't.

[waccamaw]

I am talking about the wght

[EWO]

Agreed. If a dog is perfect at 42 and someone brings him in at 40 I would say the dog, as well as his mouth, would not be the same, especially over time. EWO