mixing blood lines

[pig mad]

Have been told jeep doesnt go well with sorrells only as a battle cross not as a line so any truth to this has anyone had good go at it??
Also heard that banjo/sorrells tatonka did werent much chop any truth in this??

What other lines do or dont mix well???

[Black Hand]

Have been told jeep doesnt go well with sorrells only as a battle cross not as a line so any truth to this has anyone had good go at it??
Also heard that banjo/sorrells tatonka did werent much chop any truth in this??

What other lines do or dont mix well???

It is hard to tell because people stick to what works for them, you know.
If you make a failed cross once, chances are you dropped that idea quick lol
I think most of the successful crosses are ones that were dynamite from the get

[pig mad]

Been told they work well but dont produce. Could that be just from poor breeding selection?

[Officially Retired]

Have been told jeep doesnt go well with sorrells only as a battle cross not as a line so any truth to this has anyone had good go at it??
Also heard that banjo/sorrells tatonka did werent much chop any truth in this??
What other lines do or dont mix well???


Somewhere in here I have a pretty deep post about "crossing" and (really) just the whole idea of blanket statements about "what works" in general.

I am in the process of moving right now, so I don't have a lot of time to post for the moment, but in general when you think about breeding dogs you need to think about individuals used as well as "general" truths. For example, Redboy/Jocko is a time-proven cross ... and yet I have seen some awfully suckass individual RBJ dogs. Of course, I have seen good ones, but just because a cross may be proven good "in general" doesn't mean that every time 'you' breed RBJ dogs you're going to get good ones.

And the same is true in reverse. Just because a few people may not have had succeeded with that cross (using "their" dogs) doesn't mean you won't succeed with the same basic cross using your dogs. For example (and I guess I should have posted this in the Sorrells' thread), but here is the pedigree of Gr Ch Milo (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=10594), who not only was a badass dog, but who also sired multiple Champions bred to a variety of different bitches. I knew this dog personally, and the man who owned him actually matched against Milo ... who took a hateful beating ... but who turned things around and won (while displaying so much gameness in the process) that the old man bought him on the spot ... and then produced multiple winners with the dog ... who is essentially a watered-down Jeep/Sorrells' cross.

He wound up being THE top stud dog for the old man who had him ... so the moral to this is 1) different individuals within the same basic cross produce different results, which means 2) "other people's" efforts have ZERO bearing on how your efforts may turn out (and that works either way, good or bad).

So you will never know until you try ...

Jack

[pig mad]

Thanks might have to give it a go

[FarmersChoice]

what jack said is so true and cant really say it better at all id like to just say 1 thing on the subject dont generalize blood lines in these dogs the older u get and wiser you get you will see why i say this cause what say jim does with his jeep/sorrels dogs or how his breedings turned out have no true grit on your possible results and achievements i mean if you get a good dog out that breeding are you gonna not keep it cause it failed as a cross in the breeding area on some buddy else's yard make your own history try your own breedings best thing to do is have good individuals from the get go.

[pig mad]

Yeah i should have done it this time around instead i listened to others and put someone elses dog over her i regreted it straight away.
My male is trouble maker game trains hard but short winded he is the sorrell my bitch is trouble trains hard brilliant stamina but untested but comes from 1 of australias best lines of jeep outcrossed to banjo i wanted to do the breeding bad cause id like to see how good my bitch is next year she turns 2 in december but fell victim to the peir pressure hahaha oh well

[wrknapbt]

Have been told jeep doesnt go well with sorrells only as a battle cross not as a line so any truth to this has anyone had good go at it??
Also heard that banjo/sorrells tatonka did werent much chop any truth in this??

What other lines do or dont mix well???

I own this male and he is the truth. Him and his litter mates are looking great.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=444430

[pig mad]

Do you use it for schutzhund?

[wrknapbt]

Do you use it for schutzhund?

Not yet. But we will see.

[Officially Retired]

Yeah i should have done it this time around instead i listened to others and put someone elses dog over her i regreted it straight away.
My male is trouble maker game trains hard but short winded he is the sorrell my bitch is trouble trains hard brilliant stamina but untested but comes from 1 of australias best lines of jeep outcrossed to banjo i wanted to do the breeding bad cause id like to see how good my bitch is next year she turns 2 in december but fell victim to the peir pressure hahaha oh well


You see, that right there is why you should do the breeding: your ideas vs. someone else's :idea:

You not only are mixing "general bloodlines," but you are selecting particular individuals, you are putting your own unique stamp on that breeding (for better or worse). Your idea is to match your hard-training male to a long-winded bitch, and this may yield far different results from "someone else's" reasons for mating their individual animals.

I am actually a living example of this :mrgreen:

When I was going to breed my own Hollingsworth's Miss Trinx to Mason's Ch Hammer (which produced Poncho, Missy, and Ruby), "everyone" told me that I shouldn't do the breeding, because (they said) Ch Hammer "couldn't produce." Yet, when I thought about how game Ch Hammer was, and that he came from an all-game litter (where his brother Jesse 2xW died crawling for #3 at 2:10) ... and then I thought about how game the Hollingsworth dogs were "in general," and the individuals in the Sabre/Lady In Red breeding in particular, I ignored the bad advice "everybody" gave me ... and made the breeding anyway ... based on MY OWN ideas and beliefs ... and, as it turned out, that was the single most important and far-reaching breeding I ever made ... and now, 20+ years later, there are more Champions and winners down from the 3 dogs "I" produced from that breeding than there are from all the breedings "everyone" (who told me not to) have ever done, put together.

So the moral is simply this: do your own thing and make your own choices. Period.

:D

Jack

[Black Hand]

You see, that right there is why you should do the breeding: your ideas vs. someone else's :idea:

You not only are mixing "general bloodlines," but you are selecting particular individuals, you are putting your own unique stamp on that breeding (for better or worse). Your idea is to match your hard-training male to a long-winded bitch, and this may yield far different results from "someone else's" reasons for mating their individual animals.

I am actually a living example of this :mrgreen:

When I was going to breed my own Hollingsworth's Miss Trinx to Mason's Ch Hammer (which produced Poncho, Missy, and Ruby), "everyone" told me that I shouldn't do the breeding, because (they said) Ch Hammer "couldn't produce." Yet, when I thought about how game Ch Hammer was, and that he came from an all-game litter (where his brother Jesse 2xW died crawling for #3 at 2:10) ... and then I thought about how game the Hollingsworth dogs were "in general," and the individuals in the Sabre/Lady In Red breeding in particular, I ignored the bad advice "everybody" gave me ... and made the breeding anyway ... based on MY OWN ideas and beliefs ... and, as it turned out, that was the single most important and far-reaching breeding I ever made ... and now, 20+ years later, there are more Champions and winners down from the 3 dogs "I" produced from that breeding than there are from all the breedings "everyone" (who told me not to) have ever done, put together.

So the moral is simply this: do your own thing and make your own choices. Period.

:D

Jack

Same miss trinx that produce ch barbarian when bred to bandit?

[Black Hand]

Same miss trinx that produce ch barbarian when bred to bandit?

NVM, I just looked at the ped. Says so right on there.

[Black Hand]

I agree though. Plenty of breeding's just don't pan out within the same blood, let alone out crossing. It could more than likely be the individuals that dont mix and not the family of dogs or vice versa. Maybe you have a particular success not many else have had based on the individuals you used. Selection selection selection.

[CRISIS]

good thread.....

[Officially Retired]

Same miss trinx that produce ch barbarian when bred to bandit?

Yes :)

[Officially Retired]

good thread.....

:D

[FarmersChoice]

yup the best way to see if a breeding works is to do it otherwise you will never know and dont let someone tell u how to breed your dogs otherwise you shouldnt be breeding them in the first place im not trying to be harsh but i think its true although we all like ppl to admire what we breed it is up to you to make any breeding valid for yourself and or others for that matter

[pig mad]

Its not a matter of them telling me what to breed in the end i do as i want just hear it enough times it starts to leave doubt and coming from big players in the sport makes you wonder if they are right i thought couldnt be right made the post to get confirmation either way..