roll or bump

[pig mad]

whats the difference?

[AmberLamps]

Bump = Short roll. When you're bumping a dog you're not evaluating the dog, you'd do it to get one started or let one get the feel of actual contact.

Roll = well, a roll :) This is where the fun begins, because it's here you're evaluating your dog, schooling him, seeing if he's got what it takes to be a show dog, or not :(. It's here where he will show you what style he is, or how game he is if you want to check it. A roll is essentially a sparring session, there is no set time limit and you're free to pick your dog up whenever you want.

[skipper]

If I were to bump a dog it would be to know were he stands maturity wise. You don't even need contact to be honest. Just face him and you'll most often know. If not A quick bump will let you.

[CRISIS]

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[pig mad]

so would you bump a pair of 8 month old pups?

[pig mad]

would 5 min be classed as bump?

[AmberLamps]

If I were to bump a dog it would be to know were he stands maturity wise. You don't even need contact to be honest. Just face him and you'll most often know. If not A quick bump will let you.

Of course you need contact, it's all about the contact. :D

Allowing your dogs a back yard barkoff is telling you nothing about those dogs, other than they'll show aggression when faced with other dogs; although usually a good indication, it's not a clear indication that he's on, actually going over and taking hold is, and that's why you need contact because you'd be a fool to judge a dog on how it acts.

[skipper]

They are telling me they want contact. That is all I need to know to actually start schooling. I'm not saying I know anything about their qualities. That would be pretty stupid. But face them and if you are unsure let them bump. You see I don't see the point of a bump. Other than just know if they want to do it. Imo they don't need to take hold to tell me that. If they are at proper age and you feel they are eager to hunt. Take them to school rather than bump em. I don't want potential injuries from something that doesn't give me more than that they wants it. I rather take em straight to school.

[Ez Country]

so would you bump a pair of 8 month old pups?

No, give em until their b-day at least. The big problem with doing things at a young age is the risk of ruining them is increased. Need to be very mindful of their teeth, and even if they enjoy it that young don't push em to hard to fast.

[CRISIS]

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[turkd3000]

leave em alone, the dogs will let u know when theyre ready.
true

[R2L]

with barking on the chain? lol
gotta spin them

[pig mad]

with barking on the chain? lol
gotta spin them

i dont get what your saying thrre mate..

[classic pitbull]

leave em alone, the dogs will let u know when theyre ready.
I agree.

[Officially Retired]

a bump is just to see if its cranked

a roll is to see how it looks...


Actually, this is where a lot of people blow it.

A roll is supposed to be to school the dog, not necessarily to judge him yet.

Your first few rolls should be against dogs of different styles, to teach your dog how to handle them, and these rolls should be fairly short (< 15 min). You really shouldn't be passing judgment here, but instead assuming the role of educator.

Only after you first invest the time allowing your dog to mature, and educating your dog in the process by exposing him to dogs of various styles, should you then place him in a serious hard roll (or match) to evaluate him for real. Too many people want to game test their dogs damned near the same day they first start, which is a mistake.

Naturally, during the schooling process, if the dog is an ace (or a bum) you can see these levels of ability as you go along ... but his gameness shouldn't be seriously challenged at all ... until he is FULLY-mature, FULLY-started, and FULLY-schooled :idea:

Jack

[SHOWBOX]

so would you bump a pair of 8 month old pups?

You should invest in the PITBULL BIBLE (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/index1.html). There's a lot of OUTSTANDING information in there for the novice :shocked: as well as the professional 8). If you're serious, that book is a great place to start. ;)

Best of luck to you and God bless.

SHOWBOX

[Officially Retired]

Thanks for the props.

Actually, he's got it ... he just needs to read it :)

Jack

[pig mad]

yeah i need to find time to read it i can get on here and ask a question while cleaning my kennels or driving or at work. got a 2 year old daughter not very often is there a good time to pull it out if i dont want the pages ripped out.

[scary]

yeah i need to find time to read it i can get on here and ask a question while cleaning my kennels or driving or at work. got a 2 year old daughter not very often is there a good time to pull it out if i dont want the pages ripped out.
That's why I bought TWO copy's. so I could put one up and read the other one. :)

[NightBreed]

I agree contact is needed ive had a few dogs who showed no care for other dogs until they were in the box, you could walk a pissed off dog up to them on the chain and they could care less and when they were across from the same dog in the box it was a totally diff story.

[pig mad]

say you did bump a 8 month old pup twice in a week and he decided now he wanted to eat every other dog that passed his kennel youd have to be happy with that:exclamation:

[R2L]

allot of dogs act like they want to eat other dogs, so id say no.

[OGDOGG]

say you did bump a 8 month old pup twice in a week and he decided now he wanted to eat every other dog that passed his kennel youd have to be happy with that:exclamation:
Anytime a young dog show this type of quality, it's always a good feeling. At least you know they are started young and don't have to worry if they will ever crank up or end up being cold. I would hate to waste 2 years of feeding and find out the dog was cold. Just be careful how you manage a young started up dog. You could easily ruin a good acting pup.

[Officially Retired]

That's why I bought TWO copy's. so I could put one up and read the other one. :)

I like people who think like you :D

Jack

PS: Actually, I consider the PBB to be a working book, not a collector's item :idea:

[Officially Retired]

Anytime a young dog show this type of quality, it's always a good feeling. At least you know they are started young and don't have to worry if they will ever crank up or end up being cold. I would hate to waste 2 years of feeding and find out the dog was cold. Just be careful how you manage a young started up dog. You could easily ruin a good acting pup.


I agree it is fun to have early starters, but I wouldn't call a dog that hasn't started by 2 "cold" ... just unstarted.

Chinaman, Dibo, etc., etc. weren't started by 2 (3, 4, 5 ...) but they weren't cold either.

Actually, it is a biological fact in wolves that, while they may reach SEXUAL maturity at 13 months, they do not reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-5 years of age :idea: In other words, just because they have semen and may hike their leg doesn't mean they're ready to challenge for the pack leader until they're much older.

An intelligent dogman will take this biological fact to heart and, while some of his young dogs may "start" young, this does NOT mean they're ready to get into deep water yet and/or go all the way against a mature adult :idea:

Jack

PS: Another liability with doing dogs too young, aside from ruining them, is their teeth aren't fully set in their jaws yet. I can think of a dog named Green Eyes who was ruined by his owner not paying attention to this biological fact either ;)

[pig mad]

my pups been catching big boars 1 out since he was 4 months old he is already missing a canine.

[OGDOGG]

GreenEyes lost his tooth before he was schooled. He was a stupid dog who bit anything he could get a hold of..crates,kennel, screws, trees, anything. You knew that cause when I picked him up you told me he was trying to bite anything shining like bowls and pop cans. That stupid dog ended losing all his hangers. Also his schooling started at 17 months. I wouldn't call that started young.

[EWO]

Most will agree it takes all kins in this game, both good and bad, both smart and dumb. If you hang around long enough you will see a little of it all. I know a guy who "started' his dogs if they came out to the end of the chain when moving other dogs around. He went thru a ton to get the ones he has now. My guess is a lot of the culled would have made it if he had waited. Seen other guys with a tons of patience. Feeding dogs til they were three or better only to find out in the end that the dog was not worth keeping. It goes both ways. Recently I sold a male because he was slow to start. At 20 month he had zero interest in anything. His littermates were all cranked up ripping and raring to go. One bitch has yet to meet anything she would not bite in half, roots, rocks, barrels, axles, she works on anything. Game bitch but not a promising performance future. The male I kept was awesome as long as he was winning. He didn't care for competition. The slow guy did his thing in :46 first time out on a 1XW. He was a little over three. I can either take the credit for breeding the dog or I can take my lumps knowing I sent the better of the two away.

[Bubba j]

8 months is way to young. An i would'nt judge a pup or muture dog by the way he acts on the chain or how hard he bits an shakes the hide. I went to a guys house one time an he had some pants on a fence for the dog to fight an tug on. He kept telling me look at the way she's ripping an bitting them pants an saying how bad she was. We put that bitch on a hog an she got her ass whooped an was a straight cur. So i would'nt rush an risk messing up your pup on how bad he or she act on the chain or kennel.

[wrknapbt]

I agree it is fun to have early starters, but I wouldn't call a dog that hasn't started by 2 "cold" ... just unstarted.

Chinaman, Dibo, etc., etc. weren't started by 2 (3, 4, 5 ...) but they weren't cold either.

I know of a Ch dog that did not start until he was 3. He was lazy and just wanted to do puppy stuff. But his owner had the good sense to wait on him and it paid off. Now that being said you have to separate his pups at 10 weeks or they will kill each other

[Officially Retired]

GreenEyes lost his tooth before he was schooled. He was a stupid dog who bit anything he could get a hold of..crates,kennel, screws, trees, anything. You knew that cause when I picked him up you told me he was trying to bite anything shining like bowls and pop cans. That stupid dog ended losing all his hangers. Also his schooling started at 17 months. I wouldn't call that started young.

My mistake, I remember he had an "accidental" incident the day you got him home (when he was 11 months), and you were already judging him at that point.

I did tell you he went after his bowl, that's true, but that was pretty much it. He wasn't hot at all yet, just liked his shiny bowl.

Since you're speaking of him in the past tense, am I correct in assuming he is gone now too?

Jack

[OGDOGG]

I got him from you along with Screaming Icon in April when he(GreenEyes) was 14 months old. I wanted to use Screaming Icon for the up coming show along with PonchoBack and Buddy but with just 4 weeks out, I didn't think it was enough time to put a dog like Screaming Icon in top shape.
As for GreenEyes, he's in his 5th yard. He got kicked out of every yard he's been in as you could tell how hard of a keeper he is.
It was PonchoBack that was 11 months old, who had an accident with Ch IcePick.