View Full Version : >>Poncho x Kitana breeding!?!?!?<<
First and foremost I wanna say great job on the new forum Jack. I've just started trying to navigate my way through it and so far im vastly impressed with the great lengths you went to to make this forum.
Next I wanna go ahead and ask You and the members of this board for y'alls knowledgable input and advice about a new Poncho/Mayday prospect I just recently recieved. This is a link to his littermate brother's ped http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=196738 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=196738)
Now my question is what kinda success has the Poncho/Mayday cross (or Poncho x Kitana breeding to be more specific) had in past? I've been studying the peds of alot of Vise Grip bred dogs and have noticed not only does the line stand amazing linebred and inbred amongst itself, but it also crosses well with pretty much anything. I've disected the ped of my new pup to the best of my ability and I realize he's 75% bred from the Vise Grip's Hero x Nala breeding( which you know is in fact 87.5 % Poncho x Kitana with the other 12.5 % coming from Nico jr). And the other 25 % of my pup coming from Vise Grip's Duke Nukem who as you know is double-bred Poncho through Poncho x Screamer. Im honestly curious about the Poncho x Kitana breeding itself seeing how is makes up so much of my new ones ped.
Any info, advice , or input would be greatly appreciated . Im a student of this breed and I'm never too pridefull to soak in what wiser, more experienced men have say.
Thanks in advance,
Vdk
Icedogger
12-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Vdk you already got the right bitch to breed to that male post a picture of her I sure would like to see her it's been along time
I'm with icedogger breed that dog to your mugsyxtuscany female... They should throw real nice pups.
I have a half brother to your male.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=411711
That one day will probably be bred to tuscany
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=411714
Vdk you already got the right bitch to breed to that male post a picture of her I sure would like to see her it's been along time
Thanks man I've definatey thought about making that breeding if or when he proves he's worth his weight. And will do. Gotta get a few good pics of her first though. Sorry I forgot to send you a few awhile back. Been busy with some pups.
Vdk
I'm with icedogger breed that dog to your mugsyxtuscany female... They should throw real nice pups.
I have a half brother to your male.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=411711
That one day will probably be bred to tuscany
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=411714
Nice!!! That is a well put together good looking dog you have there. I also like that planned breeding you have.
Goodluck with them man.
Vdk
Officially Retired
12-29-2011, 02:47 PM
First and foremost I wanna say great job on the new forum Jack. I've just started trying to navigate my way through it and so far im vastly impressed with the great lengths you went to to make this forum.
Thank you very much, VDK, I sincerely appreciate your comments ... and I am glad you like it here, so get used to some good dog talk, as this will be a lifelong project 8-)
Next I wanna go ahead and ask You and the members of this board for y'alls knowledgable input and advice about a new Poncho/Mayday prospect I just recently recieved. This is a link to his littermate brother's ped http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=196738 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=196738)
That is a nice-bred dog and should be a solid individual.
Now my question is what kinda success has the Poncho/Mayday cross (or Poncho x Kitana breeding to be more specific) had in past? I've been studying the peds of alot of Vise Grip bred dogs and have noticed not only does the line stand amazing linebred and inbred amongst itself, but it also crosses well with pretty much anything.
Well, the Poncho/Kitana breeding was the definitive Poncho/Mayday breeding, and most of the success from mixing these two strains is founded on that cross. There were only a few of winners in that actual breeding ... Mister 2xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=52603) (who broke the bones of every dog he was ever on & stopped a son of Andy Capp out of a daughter of Banjo in 1:20), ManOWar 1xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=59041) (who beat Ch Big Sike 4xW), and Murder 2xW, 1xL (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=61444) (who beat Gr Ch Gioulbas 6xW in Greece) before he quit on #3. Another male named Hero produced great dogs such as Ch Miagi 4xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=105945) and Ch Pierce 3xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=101768).
The Thunder/Kitana breeding was also a vital breeding to this line, which produced Mileena (the dam of SDJ Cover Dog Ch Monster 3xW, POR (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=151119)) as well as LuLu 1xW (who was the dam to Ch Mr. Serious 3xW, ROM (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=77496)). All-in-all, there are like probably close to 20 Champions and better that are down from these dogs by now, if not more.
I've disected the ped of my new pup to the best of my ability and I realize he's 75% bred from the Vise Grip's Hero x Nala breeding( which you know is in fact 87.5 % Poncho x Kitana with the other 12.5 % coming from Nico jr). And the other 25 % of my pup coming from Vise Grip's Duke Nukem who as you know is double-bred Poncho through Poncho x Screamer. Im honestly curious about the Poncho x Kitana breeding itself seeing how is makes up so much of my new ones ped.
Any info, advice , or input would be greatly appreciated . Im a student of this breed and I'm never too pridefull to soak in what wiser, more experienced men have say.
Thanks in advance,
Vdk
Well, I appreciate your questions, and I hope I have provided some basic answers. There have been a lot of good/great dogs down from that breeding combination, but (as with anything else) some that are not so good. Without knowing the actual dogs in the pedigrees, I can't say too much about the sire and dam specifically, but I do have a general "feel" for the blood, having been involved in its original creation/distribution.
That said, in general, the positive qualities of these dogs are the fact they have very thick hides, bones, and necks--they're extremely powerful and they tend to bite above average to absolutely excellent. (For example, after being behind for over an hour, the Mister dog got ahold of his opponent's shoulder, and broke the bone so bad it stuck out of the skin. Not many dogs can bite that hard after having their muzzles crushed and their face eat off for over an hour!). So, in general, this cross tends to be very strong, very rough, very physical-type dogs.
On the negative side, many of them are slow and stupid, and IMO they are not as dependably-game as some of the other Poncho dogs. A lot of these dogs, when they've lost, have hung it up ... more so than some of the other aspects of this family. However, there have also been some absolutely DG dogs of this line, or close to it, such as Ch Miagi, Ch Mr. Serious, Mister, etc.
Therefore, in general, what I would recommend is that you breed in a direction which capitalizes on their strengths (power, mouth, rugged durability), but compensates for their weaknesses (slow, dumb, etc.) There are a lot of potentially good ways to breed a dog like that, if he's a good one. I personally bred mine in the direction of my Coca Cola dogs, because they are so damned fast, as well as to Jezebel, who was likewise super fast and athletic. Here is one of the shining results when a bitch (bred very much like your male) was bred to Silverback's half-brother: Ch Tulipa (4xW, 4xBIS, 4xGIS) (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=71650). That was the direct result of breeding a thick powerful Poncho/Mayday/NicoJr bitch to an Ouch/Bandana stud dog, so I would be trying to do something similar, but in the reverse. In other words, Speed + Power has always been a good recipe for success 8-)
Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum :)
Jack
.
MISTER
12-30-2011, 09:29 AM
They also tend to be stupid. As in if they find a spot they like early in school, they will keep trying to get that spot at any cost. Most don't believe in defense either. Try and run right through the other hog and will take anything the other dishes out. The Mister x Princess breeding (BOOM's Dam) produced awesome dogs. They ran through everything. If they had even a little bit of defense, they might still be here today.
First and foremost I wanna say great job on the new forum Jack. I've just started trying to navigate my way through it and so far im vastly impressed with the great lengths you went to to make this forum.
Thank you very much, VDK, I sincerely appreciate your comments ... and I am glad you like it here, so get used to some good dog talk, as this will be a lifelong project 8-)
Next I wanna go ahead and ask You and the members of this board for y'alls knowledgable input and advice about a new Poncho/Mayday prospect I just recently recieved. This is a link to his littermate brother's ped http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=196738 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=196738)
That is a nice-bred dog and should be a solid individual.
Now my question is what kinda success has the Poncho/Mayday cross (or Poncho x Kitana breeding to be more specific) had in past? I've been studying the peds of alot of Vise Grip bred dogs and have noticed not only does the line stand amazing linebred and inbred amongst itself, but it also crosses well with pretty much anything.
Well, the Poncho/Kitana breeding was the definitive Poncho/Mayday breeding, and most of the success from mixing these two strains is founded on that cross. There were only a few of winners in that actual breeding ... Mister 2xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=52603) (who broke the bones of every dog he was ever on & stopped a son of Andy Capp out of a daughter of Banjo in 1:20), ManOWar 1xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=59041) (who beat Ch Big Sike 4xW), and Murder 2xW, 1xL (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=61444) (who beat Gr Ch Gioulbas 6xW in Greece) before he quit on #3. Another male named Hero produced great dogs such as Ch Miagi 4xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=105945) and Ch Pierce 3xW (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=101768).
The Thunder/Kitana breeding was also a vital breeding to this line, which produced Mileena (the dam of SDJ Cover Dog Ch Monster 3xW, POR (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=151119)) as well as LuLu 1xW (who was the dam to Ch Mr. Serious 3xW, ROM (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=77496)). All-in-all, there are like probably close to 20 Champions and better that are down from these dogs by now, if not more.
I've disected the ped of my new pup to the best of my ability and I realize he's 75% bred from the Vise Grip's Hero x Nala breeding( which you know is in fact 87.5 % Poncho x Kitana with the other 12.5 % coming from Nico jr). And the other 25 % of my pup coming from Vise Grip's Duke Nukem who as you know is double-bred Poncho through Poncho x Screamer. Im honestly curious about the Poncho x Kitana breeding itself seeing how is makes up so much of my new ones ped.
Any info, advice , or input would be greatly appreciated . Im a student of this breed and I'm never too pridefull to soak in what wiser, more experienced men have say.
Thanks in advance,
Vdk
Well, I appreciate your questions, and I hope I have provided some basic answers. There have been a lot of good/great dogs down from that breeding combination, but (as with anything else) some that are not so good. Without knowing the actual dogs in the pedigrees, I can't say too much about the sire and dam specifically, but I do have a general "feel" for the blood, having been involved in its original creation/distribution.
That said, in general, the positive qualities of these dogs are the fact they have very thick hides, bones, and necks--they're extremely powerful and they tend to bite above average to absolutely excellent. (For example, after being behind for over an hour, the Mister dog got ahold of his opponent's shoulder, and broke the bone so bad it stuck out of the skin. Not many dogs can bite that hard after having their muzzles crushed and their face eat off for over an hour!). So, in general, this cross tends to be very strong, very rough, very physical-type dogs.
On the negative side, many of them are slow and stupid, and IMO they are not as dependably-game as some of the other Poncho dogs. A lot of these dogs, when they've lost, have hung it up ... more so than some of the other aspects of this family. However, there have also been some absolutely DG dogs of this line, or close to it, such as Ch Miagi, Ch Mr. Serious, Mister, etc.
Therefore, in general, what I would recommend is that you breed in a direction which capitalizes on their strengths (power, mouth, rugged durability), but compensates for their weaknesses (slow, dumb, etc.) There are a lot of potentially good ways to breed a dog like that, if he's a good one. I personally bred mine in the direction of my Coca Cola dogs, because they are so damned fast, as well as to Jezebel, who was likewise super fast and athletic. Here is one of the shining results when a bitch (bred very much like your male) was bred to Silverback's half-brother: Ch Tulipa (4xW, 4xBIS, 4xGIS) (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=71650). That was the direct result of breeding a thick powerful Poncho/Mayday/NicoJr bitch to an Ouch/Bandana stud dog, so I would be trying to do something similar, but in the reverse. In other words, Speed + Power has always been a good recipe for success 8-)
Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum :)
Jack
.
Jack, as always you answered all my questions in great detail. Thank you for that. And if he works out I have a gyp off Mugsy x Tuscany ( http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=388119 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=388119) ) who has all the speed, agility, and intelligence I could ask for. A super fast, super slick gyp that got me interested in the Vise Grip line. And he is just like you discribed the Poncho x Kitana dogs. Big boned, thick necked , and amazingly strong. He's intense to say the least. Thanks again for answering my questions in such great detail and for creating a forum where men can communicate and learn on a civil, well manored level.
Vdk
They also tend to be stupid. As in if they find a spot they like early in school, they will keep trying to get that spot at any cost. Most don't believe in defense either. Try and run right through the other hog and will take anything the other dishes out. The Mister x Princess breeding (BOOM's Dam) produced awesome dogs. They ran through everything. If they had even a little bit of defense, they might still be here today.
Thank you as well. I appreciate the insight and personal knowledge you've shared about this particular line. Im excited to see what my Poncho/Mayday pup inherited from his ancestors. Maybe the extra Poncho blood through Duke Nukem will help add alil more speed and intelligence to him. Regardless im glad I have him and i'll do my best to give him the best. Thanks again to all who answered my questions.
Vdk
Officially Retired
12-30-2011, 09:57 AM
Jack, as always you answered all my questions in great detail. Thank you for that. And if he works out I have a gyp off Mugsy x Tuscany ( http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=388119 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=388119) ) who has all the speed, agility, and intelligence I could ask for. A super fast, super slick gyp that got me interested in the Vise Grip line. And he is just like you discribed the Poncho x Kitana dogs. Big boned, thick necked , and amazingly strong. He's intense to say the least. Thanks again for answering my questions in such great detail and for creating a forum where men can communicate and learn on a civil, well manored level.
Vdk
You're welcome sir, thank you for being a part of it. That gyp you have planned has both Jezebel and Coki in there, so you have an excellent shot at it, so let us know how everything turns out as things progress 8-)
Cheers,
Jack
.
Jack, as always you answered all my questions in great detail. Thank you for that. And if he works out I have a gyp off Mugsy x Tuscany ( http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=388119 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=388119) ) who has all the speed, agility, and intelligence I could ask for. A super fast, super slick gyp that got me interested in the Vise Grip line. And he is just like you discribed the Poncho x Kitana dogs. Big boned, thick necked , and amazingly strong. He's intense to say the least. Thanks again for answering my questions in such great detail and for creating a forum where men can communicate and learn on a civil, well manored level.
Vdk
You're welcome sir, thank you for being a part of it. That gyp you have planned has both Jezebel and Coki in there, so you have an excellent shot at it, so let us know how everything turns out as things progress 8-)
Cheers,
Jack
I definately will keep y'all updated. The more I see and hear of your line of dogs the more I'm impressed. I hope I can continue to bring honor to the Poncho line.
Maybe one day i'll even get a chance to try out a Silverback bred dog as well. :)
Vdk
.
Officially Retired
12-30-2011, 10:42 AM
;)
I cant figure out how to upload photos on here. Any advice?
Vdk
Here is a littermate brother to your male VDK...He is owned by a gentlemen out east. He is very pleased with him so far.
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3291/1216111415a.jpg
Wow. Thanks for posting this pic bro. He's a great looking dog. Looks alot like the one I have.
Vdk
russian
01-16-2012, 07:28 AM
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=383816 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=383816)
vdk here he is i miss him hanging from the tree lol and honey(madion)sitting in her water bowl!!!!i owned both these b4 i gave them to vdk or gave one and half the other lmao ,,,,,but they are very nice dogs to say the least!!!
russian
01-16-2012, 07:40 AM
amen!
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=383816
vdk here he is i miss him hanging from the tree lol and honey(madion)sitting in her water bowl!!!!i owned both these b4 i gave them to vdk or gave one and half the other lmao ,,,,,but they are very nice dogs to say the least!!!
Thanks bro.
Vdk
The Boys
01-17-2012, 05:15 PM
I have seen Hero, Pierce, Miagi, The sister, as well as China.
Everything about them was nice.
The Boys
The Boys
ponchday
01-20-2012, 09:01 PM
I own the littermate, Lil Boom. He has it all.
Wow.. He's something to look at bro. Pm me if you dont mind. I would like to ask you a few things.
Vdk
russian
01-21-2012, 07:38 AM
I TOLD YA LIL BOOM WAS A GOOOD LOOKING DOG BRO!
ponchday
02-26-2012, 07:28 PM
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/ponchoday/2012-02-0511-35-00-094-1.jpg
Boom
ponchday
02-26-2012, 07:29 PM
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/ponchoday/2012-02-2612-56-12-163-1-1.jpg
One of the best dogs I ever seen and owned was down from this breeding being double bred Mister 2xw.
I made this post so hopefully Jack and others that owned dogs from this breeding can share some history on their production and performance.
Ive noticed that more times than not when you cross into mayday their genetics take over, making the dogs bigger, slower, dumber and not as agile. But ive personally never seen a 50% or more mayday dog stop. They are very game, durable and powerful and love what they do. But when poncho was bred to kitana, the best of both lines genetics were put into the offspring. The dogs kept all the things that made poncho dogs special but added some size, power and durability without taking away the intelligence, speed, agility and style!
I look forward to hearing stories about the dogs from this breeding.
Officially Retired
06-20-2015, 09:59 AM
One of the best dogs I ever seen and owned was down from this breeding being double bred Mister 2xw.
I made this post so hopefully Jack and others that owned dogs from this breeding can share some history on their production and performance.
Ive noticed that more times than not when you cross into mayday their genetics take over, making the dogs bigger, slower, dumber and not as agile. But ive personally never seen a 50% or more mayday dog stop. They are very game, durable and powerful and love what they do. But when poncho was bred to kitana, the best of both lines genetics were put into the offspring. The dogs kept all the things that made poncho dogs special but added some size, power and durability without taking away the intelligence, speed, agility and style!
I look forward to hearing stories about the dogs from this breeding.
This is a good and fair analysis.
There is another thread (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/showthread.php?142) on this subject that you might find interesting :)
Jack
This is a good and fair analysis.
There is another thread (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/showthread.php?142) on this subject that you might find interesting :)
Jack
Thanks Jack that thread was informative. Looking to read about some detailed stories on the individuals from this litter, mister, hot tamale, poncho jr, hero etc.....
Officially Retired
06-20-2015, 01:04 PM
I just merged the two threads to keep everything together.
MISTER
06-28-2015, 05:59 AM
Ask and you shall receive.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=1578