Round Pen for No Chain Situations

[No Quarter Kennel]

I got to thinking about it and was contemplating what I would do if I were in a situation where I could no longer have my dogs on chains.

I use to trap pigs ever now and then. So, this led me to this idea for bulldogs. Get yourself some 5' cattle panel. Wire them end to end, creating a real long single panel. Use as many as you like. The bigger the circle you want, the more panels. After that, get yourself, or build yourself a good quality gate or door for your entrance. Take one of the long panel you just made and wire it to one side of the gate and do the same with the other end of your panel. You now have a circular pen as big or small as you like. Take some T posts and drive them in every 6-10 feet,,,,,,whatever you deem neccessary. If I were to do this, I'd lay it out and mark it. Then, I would dig at least a 1 foot trench to set the panels in to prohibit the dog from diggin out.

This would be way cheaper than a quality 5x10 pen that typically runs $350 and up.

Like I said, I modeled this after pig traps we were using. Pros and cons? Not sure, just come up with it and haven't put a lot of thought into it except for what I used to do for pig pens/traps. It makes a lot of sense to me though and I think it could just be the ticket for some of you folks not getting to use chains. Hell of a lot cheaper than the pens Garner is building also.

Something along the lines of this....but remember, you can make it as large or small as you want and I would make sure it was 5 or 6' high, but I'm the overkill king too, so whatever. http://www.shareyourhunt.com/group/hoghunting/forum/topics/monster-hog-trap

Just a thought for some to consider.

[CRISIS]

the only thing wrong i can see would be the cost efficiancy.... if you were using just 1 panel high (approx 4-5 ft) a dog would clear that without breaking a sweat. if you were to go 2 high then it would just be cheaper going with the kennel set up.....

ive been thinking about above ground pens as permanent housing for dogs lately..... the blueprint of those are approx 250$ ive figured so far.......

if you have a tractor supply you can find the panels pretty cheap (my local has them for $22 a piece), 4x4x20 are about 7$-10.

so you should be ble to build a kennel in under $325.....which isnt bad...

[scratchin dog]

If it was circular, how would you put a top on it to keep the dogs from climbing out?

[No Quarter Kennel]

Like I said, I didn't think it all the way through, but not all dogs climb or jump 5' fences. Personally, if I were to do it, I'd build it with 6' panels.
It was just an idea....or something to spark convo.

Me personally..... I HAVE TO HAVE A TOP on any pen of mine. I live by the proverbial, "If it CAN happen, it WILL happen"

Carry on!

[skipper]

believe me. the peace of mind in having proper kennel runs is worth the money. I have had cats dogs horses elks foxes and eve volves running either on the yard or very close. a well built kennel will protect you. your dogs and your future expenses. dunno about the laws elswere but were i live you are always responsible for your dogs. even if they get attacked by a loose dog..

[CRISIS]

ive seen beagles get out of 6 ft covered fences....were talkin bulldogs...it wont work ....

[pig mad]

Not to mention cattle mesh is big squares if im correct 1 loose dog could take chunk off any other dog. They loose teeth pretty easy grabbing pigs in a trao grabbing another dog would be fucked i can see faces or toungues coming off

[CRISIS]

heres what u want..........
http://www.tractorsupply.com/feedlot-panel-cattle-16-ft-l-x-50-in-h-3502077

heres an idea that would be cost efficient

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P806LdbyZQ

[No Quarter Kennel]

I don't agree with that at all. The cost b/t Garners design and a good kennel at TSC is very comparable and you figure in the labor for one and you might as well go get something from TSC. No matter how you treat or paint the wood, it's going to rot eventually and what about his design???? NO TOP???? I thought they'd all jump and climb out??? LOL

Seriously, I wouldn't put a dog in a pen with no roof of some sort, unless I really know the dog. However, if I were going to go with Garners, I would simply get cattle, hog, or sheep panel, 6' tall (that make this you know) and set it up the way I originally said. T Posts, one gate and you got exactly what Garner has.....but no corners, makes it harder to climb out and being 6 feet tall, most won't jump out. If they do......put a roof on it.

And for the record, I dont' want anything like this. All my dogs are on 12' chains and live the good life. I was just sparking convo

[No Quarter Kennel]

Oh yeah....throw in the concrete and you got one expensive ass pen
Great set up, but expensive as hell

[pig mad]

Garners pens arent escape with out a roof

[CRISIS]

Lol according to tom "wall jumping has been bred out of his dogs!"

[CRISIS]

And no....pressure treated wood with thompsons weather seal will last YEARS!

[No Quarter Kennel]

I'm aware it will last for years, but it won't last as long as metal - kennels.
I use to be in the carpentry profession. As much as you'll spend on Thompson a couple times a year, you could have bought in full price, a great kennel that will last a life time. Guaranteed

[FrostyPaws]

Tom's kennels weren't as expensive as you would think as he bought so much of the material in bulk. He also doesn't have concrete flooring in his pens for his dogs. Those pens are 16x16, and they are taller than 6 foot in height.

[CRISIS]

I use chicken wire on the top- so far so good

[Doc Ellis]

you can do Garner type kennels for about $400. Id take the wood rotting on those before the wire part of my prefab corroadin (badly after only 4 yrs use from piss) on my 5x10s allday

[CRISIS]

keep in mind the most expensive thing is those panels.....which last forever.....so your really just reaplacing $3 2x4's...........

[TFX]

I don't like kennels. My remaining dogs are on 20' chains with permanant cinder block doghouses. I own a bunch of chain link kennel panels, but have converted them all into chicken and turkey pens as I find them just about useless for bulldogs. I do however have two kennels left for pups, bitches in heat or whelp, and so forth. I think my kennel setup is much better than Garner's, will last forever, and probably has a very comparable cost on a per square foot basis.

What I have are two side by side 16' long x 8' wide kennels connected to a 8' long x 16' wide open front building. Essentially, this makes two 24' long x 8' wide kennels with 8' of the 24' as an indoor portion for a wind and rain shelter. The construction of the panels is like Garner's; using the same type of panels, except mine have an all steel 1" square tube frame. They are 5' high panels, but by placing them on a 2 course cinder block footing (block is cheap), a height of well over 6' can be acheived. If one was insistent on a roof, 4 additional 4' high x 16' long panels run horizontal would cover the entire open top area outside of the building. Because of the building, the dogs have a 8' x 8'x indoor loafing area (64 sq.ft.), so even when it is raining they can stay dry to eat, shit, piss, or just lay outside of the house in a dry area that is still larger than some people's 10' x 6' (60 sq.ft.) kennels. This indoor area also serves as a large shade shelter in the summer. This design could even be modified to be 16' long x 8' wide, being half indoor and half outdoor. In that situation, one would only need an 8' long panel in front of the 8' long building to make the side run. Another adaptation would be individual 8' x 8' buildings, or even an 8' x 32' bulding for 4 side by side runs. The basic design is a good one and is very versatile. Because I have two extra panels sitting here, I only need to weld up one more 16' panel for example to extend my 2 runs to 32' long x 8' wide.

Garner's setup just has a concrete house plunked in the middle of the pen, no other wind breaks, no additional shade area (other than trees), and no additional dry areas from the rain. As NQK pointed out, that wood is going to rot in due time. Even pressure treated wood rots out friends, and those panel walls of his aren't pressure treated. I just bought a project home in which the power pole completely rotted off at the base and the only thing holding it up was the service wires on top, and some conduit on the bottom.:shocked: This was a pole that I think was only 18 years old. Go with metal and concrete products in your dog yard, and avoid wood. These products are stronger, and will have a longer life. You will be much happier in the long run.

[pig mad]

A picture says a thousand words...

[TFX]

In spite of the one liner, moderately disrespectful quasi-request; for those who are interested, I am posting a photo of my lone remaining kennel setup. It has been raining around here, I've been out of town for Christmas, and for about 14 hours per day it is dark. This is my first opportunity to post a visual on what I was describing above. Very simple really, but far better than many other kenneling concepts that I have seen, and all of those that have been shared here in my judgment for the reasons outlined above.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f335/tfxtfx/Kennel_zpsd6d0643f.jpg

[TFX]

Just a thought on chains vs. kennels. These kennels are quite large 8x24, which is 192 square feet. If I extend them into 8x32's they will be 256 square feet. If I took the middle out and went 16 x 24 today they would be 384 square feet, or if I left the middle out and extended the 2 sides I could have a very large 16 x 32 kennel that would measure a whopping 512 square feet. However, my simple 20' chains give the dogs 1256 square feet of living area. Granted, I don't have a building for them to have the additional shelter and so forth, but it is a lot more area for a lot less money. I believe it makes for happier dogs. My kenneled dogs act like caged lunatics just set free when I cut them loose, running around with boundless, pent up energy. When I cut chained dogs loose, they just want to hang out with me and cruise around, they don't act like they were just set free. I believe a large chain area gives the dog a feeling of already being free.

So, just to point out the absurdity of no chain laws, the dog can have a 5' x 10' kennel of 50 square feet with a doghouse taking some of that space up and that is OK, but my 1256 square foot chain runs that are over 20 times the living area are not OK. Some real geniuses behind that one eh?:rolleyes:

[No Quarter Kennel]

TFX, I love your setup man. Very nice.

Question, I noticed in Jack's Bible, he mentioned a 12-14' chain setup but mentioned that he noticed most dogs only utilize 10' of it really. What is your experience with the 20' Chains?

[SGC]

Just a thought on chains vs. kennels. These kennels are quite large 8x24, which is 192 square feet. If I extend them into 8x32's they will be 256 square feet. If I took the middle out and went 16 x 24 today they would be 384 square feet, or if I left the middle out and extended the 2 sides I could have a very large 16 x 32 kennel that would measure a whopping 512 square feet.

However, my simple 20' chains give the dogs 1256 square feet of living area. Granted, I don't have a building for them to have the additional shelter and so forth, but it is a lot more area for a lot less money.

I believe it makes for happier dogs. My kenneled dogs act like caged lunatics just set free when I cut them loose, running around with boundless, pent up energy. When I cut chained dogs loose, they just want to hang out with me and cruise around, they don't act like they were just set free. I believe a large chain area gives the dog a feeling of already being free.

So, just to point out the absurdity of no chain laws, the dog can have a 5' x 10' kennel of 50 square feet with a doghouse taking some of that space up and that is OK, but my 1256 square foot chain runs that are over 20 times the living area are not OK. Some real geniuses behind that one eh?:rolleyes:

Nice kennel set up and thank you for posting a photo of it. Hope you had a nice Christmas too.

I agree with you 200% about the chains Vs kennels, as my old dogs in chains were much happier than the few times I tried a kennel pen. They got more space and more exercise on the chains.

It is just modern day stupidity that leads to those anti tether laws, and yet nothing is done about dogs that sit in a crate in a basement 24/7.

[Black Hand]

not a lot is done about these laws cuz we are relatively quiet about it. those who do fight it usually have had success. the problem lies with us not wanting to make a big splash lol. you got a bunch of bulldogs on a chain last thing ppl wanna do is alert everybody to it so I think that's why nothing changes. those are nice kennels though for sure.

I can tell a major difference in my dogs, just from my pups from the ones that get put out on a chain oppose to one of them I kept in a brood pen. she will bang on the paneling all day if I let her and don't let her out for a good portion of the day. her littermate are much more content and quiet.

[Black Hand]

In spite of the one liner, moderately disrespectful quasi-request; for those who are interested, I am posting a photo of my lone remaining kennel setup. It has been raining around here, I've been out of town for Christmas, and for about 14 hours per day it is dark. This is my first opportunity to post a visual on what I was describing above. Very simple really, but far better than many other kenneling concepts that I have seen, and all of those that have been shared here in my judgment for the reasons outlined above.

they don't try to dig out?

[pig mad]

Im starting to noticevwith knowledge comes an ego there was nothing distespectful about my request as i said a picture says a thousand words and id rather see the picture than read the 1000 words that kennel is nothing like the mental picture i was picturing in my head. If i had the room i would go chains infact i actually already have the chains i just need the land but i feel there is nothing wrong with kennels if you exercise your mutts daily my kennels are 1m x 3m and i have no drama.

[TFX]

Starting in reverse;

No, there is no ego Pig Mad. There is a way to carry yourself both in person and online so that you show respect and decorum, and so that you don't present yourself as an asshole. That process generally doesn't involve one-liner type communication. I doubt that your intent was to come across as an asshole, but that is kind of what happened truth be told. Now, that isn't the first time I have seen it on this forum from you. The other times I didn't say anything about it, and just let it slide. This time, I still tried to drop a subtle hint to get you thinking, but then you had to come back and accuse me of having an ego. A true double whammy for you my friend! Try this on for size as an example: "TFX, I am having a hard time visualizing what you have described here, is there anyway you could post a picture of your kennel setup for us?" Big difference in that request versus a smart ass, one-liner. Think about it.
I give what I get, in person as well as online, end of story. There are people on this board who have known me, or known of me for decades. In general, I think if you asked them they will tell you I am honest, friendly, and helpful. Don't mistake friendly for weak. So before your ego gets the best of you, stew on that for awhile and think about changing your approach a little bit, it will serve you well in person and online.

Black Hand, great question. Yes, they do try to dig a little bit, but I keep throwing bricks, blocks, stepping stones etc. in there, so they have about given up on it. Also, I have one of the 16 foot panels laying flat on the outside, so they can't get out anyhow even if they dig. You will have that same issue with any kennel setup that does not have a concrete floor or border. I am basically out of the dogs, so the kennel really hadn't been getting used much until I had a litter last March. Since then I have kept growing pups in there. One is shipping out soon, and the other is going on chain. I am going to do the fix I mentioned above by setting those panels on 2 courses of cinder block on a footing to both stop the digging and raise the sides to about 6 1/2 feet. I already have all of the block here to do it, just need to find dry weather and the time.

Thanks SGC. I hope you are enjoying your back to back holiday week too. BTW.....The best Christmas gift you could give me; and this whole board, would be to post my old Clouse dog article.:lol: I don't know if I can ever duplicate it, but one day I might try. I regret not saving some of those veritable masterpieces. We can all thank Jack for wigging out and shutting down a board with no warning!:waahh: These anti-tether laws are nothing but a loophole for BSL. Most pinheaded breeds could not be put on a chain, as their neck is bigger than their heads and they can very easily pull out of collars. The douche-bag humaniacs figured that out, and found a way to screw the bulldog folks indirectly.

Thanks NQK. I actually built this thing after an idea from a full indoor/outdoor heated kennel I visited in Illinois. My weather isn't really that extreme to where I needed them heated or anything, but I liked the idea of a building attached to the runs as a dry space and windbreak. So, I decided a makeshift shelter like this could work on a budget. I think I only have $300-400 in that whole building, so less than $200 per kennel before adding the panels. The most expensive part was the roof. I originally went with rolled comp for the roof, but it has been a royal pain in the ass. I am going to reroof it any day now with 10' galvanized tin, which will leave a 1' overhang in the front and back. I think they are $13 per 2' wide sheet, so on this deal I would need 8 sheets. After buying tar paper and rolled comp, and then all of the repairs I have had to do because of that crap blowing off, I would have been money ahead just going with the tin to begin with. I did my horse shelters with the tin and have had no problems for 7 years now. I am also going to get rid of the siding, and do the sides with full 8' planks of 1"x 6". I recently did that to a chicken house I built. It's very durable, and I like the rustic look of the raw wood over the painted to match the house look. About the chains, brother they use every damn bit of the 20' chain! Jack and I originally decided to up our chain lengths at the same time. I was running 9'-10' chains like I had used forever. He and I talked about 12'-15', and I decided "screw it I am going to go with 20' and see how it works". It's not like I am short on land, so I did 3 of the 20' chains and it was the best thing I ever did for the dogs. At the time I still had 8 or 10 dogs here, and the difference of the dogs on the 20' chains was noticeable. They were just calmer and happier, not as keyed up all the time. Now, there is technically an anti-tethering law where I live, although it isn't going to be enforced around here because most folks actually have common sense. That notwithstanding, I am in the process of hooking the 20' chains to some 1" cable I have in order to have ground cables to circumvent the stupid law. The ground cable is like 8'-9' long, and will run a massive forged O ring as the slider. That will significantly increase the square footage again by like another 40%+, so each dog will have like 2,000 square feet or more of living area. Many people don't even have a back yard that size.

[CRISIS]

hey TFX i have a question.........i hear cable "tolley/runs" are actually indeed legal in CA,.....although i havent done the homework on all the details myelsf...ive been told, that even a 1-2 ft cable is still considered a legit "trolley run".......do you know of the details behind this? if so would you be able to share any ideas of the the runs themselves?? the only thing i can think of (other than the classic overhead hang style) is having 2 axles in the ground with a cable running between them....attched to that cable is the steel ring that attaches the chain & collar..

if i can figure this out, this will save an amazing amount of money from having to buy kennels with every new addition.

[pig mad]

Tfx i am an asshole there is no doubt about that in person and on forums hahaha but no that was not how i intended to come across as i said to you in pm long winded storys loose me it just turns into a mess in my head not to mention i realy like to see pictures of things mainly so i can steal ideas give me written plans i may have trouble following but show me a picture and ill duplicate it to a t.
I do appolagise if i offended you to be honest id probably like to pick your brain i have asked people who you are as it is obvious your very knowledgable but no one answers me.
While i have everyones attention start posting pictures with your pedigrees and storys i know i like to see them and doubt i am alone showing a pedigree and dog is shit might look good on paper and dog be a retard buck tooth twisted leg inbred mutt hahaha.
Sorry again tfx im alright once you get to know me ( im an asshole but youll get use to me) hahaha

[TFX]

hey TFX i have a question.........i hear cable "tolley/runs" are actually indeed legal in CA,.....although i havent done the homework on all the details myelsf...ive been told, that even a 1-2 ft cable is still considered a legit "trolley run".......do you know of the details behind this? if so would you be able to share any ideas of the the runs themselves?? the only thing i can think of (other than the classic overhead hang style) is having 2 axles in the ground with a cable running between them....attched to that cable is the steel ring that attaches the chain & collar..

if i can figure this out, this will save an amazing amount of money from having to buy kennels with every new addition.

Yep, they are legal and so are ground cables. Ground cables are a better deal than overhead setups in my opinion. As long as the chain is not stationary to a center point like an axle then you are golden.Years ago at the Pope's ranch we had a 200' overhead cable run which basically served as a pre keep for ones that were going to be shown. They would zing up and down that darn thing all day long exploring the area. I will come and help you setup your first one when you are ready. Start collecting axle shafts now, you will need 2 per setup instead of one. Source out the heaviest O rings you can find (preferably stainless steel), as well as your cable and cable locks now too. If you get this 1" stuff like I have, it is so damned stiff that it is really hard to bend back to lock to itself in a tight loop. I think a little thinner cable, and perhaps doubling them up would be better after working with this stuff. It was given to me so I can't really complain, and it's going to last 1000 years, but man is it tough to bend!

[TFX]

Tfx i am an asshole there is no doubt about that in person and on forums hahaha but no that was not how i intended to come across as i said to you in pm long winded storys loose me it just turns into a mess in my head not to mention i realy like to see pictures of things mainly so i can steal ideas give me written plans i may have trouble following but show me a picture and ill duplicate it to a t.
I do appolagise if i offended you to be honest id probably like to pick your brain i have asked people who you are as it is obvious your very knowledgable but no one answers me.
While i have everyones attention start posting pictures with your pedigrees and storys i know i like to see them and doubt i am alone showing a pedigree and dog is shit might look good on paper and dog be a retard buck tooth twisted leg inbred mutt hahaha.
Sorry again tfx im alright once you get to know me ( im an asshole but youll get use to me) hahaha

I don't believe you are or intend to be an asshole, but it sure can come across that way. If long winded stories lose you, quite frankly you are going to have a hard time learning much. There is no way to impart knowledge without detailed communication, whether it be written or spoken, and there is no way to absorb that knowledge without good comprehension. I sympathize with people who are ADD or lack focus or attention to detail for whatever reason. Being a little bit OCD myself, I can empathize and imagine what it would be like to be on the other end of that. I wish I had the easy answer for you, but all I can say is take it one post at a time, one book at a time, one chapter at a time, once paragraph at a time, or even one sentence at a time, whatever it takes to really digest something and understand it. You eat an elephant one bite at a time. Different people see the same elephant as being different sizes based on thier own perception. Either way, take one bite at a time, even if the elephant looks huge to you and smaller to someone else. I know the feeling of looking at a long post and saying "I don't want to read all of this shit". On the other hand, if you are going to learn, or contribute to the forum you have to read it well in order to reply appropriately.

You did not offend me Pig Mad. If I didn't care for you, or thought you weren't worth my time I'd tell you to go screw yourself, or just ignore you. I think your using these dogs for hunting and crossing them with hounds and so forth is all very interesting. I think you have something valuable to contribute. Your a member of this forum and free to participate however you like. With that said, let me give you one more thing to think about. You have been on here for 3 months, and I was the first member on this forum other than Jack, so I have been here a year. Yet, in 3 months you have significantly more posts than I do. That's certainly your right, and please feel free to post away to your heart's content. On the other hand, slowing down and putting together more informative well thought out posts might make your contributions to the board even more valuable. You have stated that I am knowledgeable. I actually might not be as knowledgeable as some other folks are, but I try to take the time to put together cohesive posts that will add value to the community, and that will benefit other people. It doesn't just fly off my fingertips the way you read it. I have to go back and reread, rephrase, and rearrange my posts until they make sense to me at least, and hopefully to others as well. Written communication is often difficult, because it is hard to put inflection into the writing. I am confident that if you take the time to read and reread, write and rewrite, your experience here as both a learner and a teacher will be improved.

[Barnstormer Bulldogs]

I personal hate kennels or pens for my dogs. but if I had to use one again I would only use metal kennels. bc wood breaks down over time. I use to use wood in and on my kennel set up as walls so I didn't get kennel fighting. but one day my bigger male decide to eat the plywood wall had to take him to the vet. and it wasn't cheap.
another reason I do like using wood in kennel set is it absorb piss. so your yard always smells like piss.
me personal I would never use kennels except for pups. if I don't have to

[pig mad]

The difference in our posts tfx is mine are questions when it comes to bull dogs thats all i got questions on the other hand you got all the answers my problem with comprahension is when there is several pages of off topic shit i have to sift through to get to the part i want i read and write fine just some people stretch the answer out to the point it gets boring reading it and id rather go kick my dog than read it. If anyone had questions about pig hunting id be all over it but this is bulldog site thats what im here for like i say just add a few pictures everynow and then and that is to everyone not directed at you jacks little videos are great were as same stuff is in the bible but getting through all the wind in each chapter looses my interest. I showed pictures of all mutts appears everyone else just shows pedigrees

[TFX]

Write some pig hunting stories damn it! That would be of interest to many here.

[pig mad]

Righto i'll fire up the computer and post some pics and a story of my hunt the other day. I stopped posting them because it appeared to me jack didnt want em on here the way he picked it apart..

[CRISIS]

i cant tell you how many times ive writtien a few paragraphs, reread before posting and then just delete it and never post it....lol

[CRISIS]

i wouldnt mind seeing some hunting videos............

[pig mad]

Just trying to get the pics off my phone

[CRISIS]

sounds good TFX, i look forward to it!

[Bolioman]

Lol according to tom "wall jumping has been bred out of his dogs!"

Lol

[widerange]

I dislike kennel myself but when I first got into dogs I visited a yard that had the best kennel set ups I have ever seen. He had a about two acres fenced in with ten foot tall chain link fence then his 20+ dogs was each on a ten ft long chain with a 6 ft circle kennel around each dog. In the yes I knew him not a single dog got loose. No yard accident or mistake breeding, or dogs stolen. That in itself saids a lot about his setup