View Full Version : Why the Jenny?
Jon P. Lebron
01-18-2013, 04:56 PM
I have noticed that many say that the Jenny is the best piece of equipment for conditioning a dog. To those have used a Jenny I ask, personally why do you consider the jenny the best equipment for conditioning?
I don't know that the jenny is my "best" or favorite piece of training equipment, but I have had a few jennys over the years that I conditioned dogs. The dog runs a much more natural gait on a jenny than on a treadmill. I could also blend resistance work simultaneously with my sprint and pacing work on my jenny by dropping a drag chain.
My best piece of training equipment was always a pickup truck and a nice smooth dirt road. The best roads of all were the packed sand in the vineyards, but any dirt road will do. I have had cops roll up on me a few times while conditioning bulldogs in this manner and other than wondering what I was doing late at night in a field, I never got hassled about working the dog. My pat excuse was that I had a blown out knee and this was the only way to work my dog as hard as I did when I ran with him before, but I never had to use it.
I even had a jenny setup out in the back of my work once upon a time at the end of a railhead, where I also kept a couple of dogs to condition.:mrgreen:
Steeldog
01-21-2013, 05:27 PM
Haha. Nice excuse.
I don't know that the jenny is my "best" or favorite piece of training equipment, but I have had a few jennys over the years that I conditioned dogs. The dog runs a much more natural gait on a jenny than on a treadmill. I could also blend resistance work simultaneously with my sprint and pacing work on my jenny by dropping a drag chain.
My best piece of training equipment was always a pickup truck and a nice smooth dirt road. The best roads of all were the packed sand in the vineyards, but any dirt road will do. I have had cops roll up on me a few times while conditioning bulldogs in this manner and other than wondering what I was doing late at night in a field, I never got hassled about working the dog. My pat excuse was that I had a blown out knee and this was the only way to work my dog as hard as I did when I ran with him before, but I never had to use it.
CRISIS
01-21-2013, 06:53 PM
hey TFX have you ever been up to sand creek rd. up in arbuckle??? i found it on google earth, looks like a great place to work dogs in that manner.......i wouldnt mind the hour 1/2 trip to try it out! lol
FrostyPaws
01-22-2013, 04:57 PM
I can tell you why the jenny is my favorite piece of equipment. My dogs simply work harder on the jenny than a mill. They get more of a workout running the jenny how they want than they ever could with me trying to coax them into working the mill how I like. It's safer for me to work them on the jenny than roadwork.
I've never had a dog that could work the mill with the same intensity and pace as they can the jenny.
Jon P. Lebron
01-23-2013, 02:52 AM
Ok, do ya put any type of resistance other than a chain. I've seen some where the wooked up a house door side ways and another that had a tarp I guess for wind resistance once the dog runs.
FrostyPaws, how do you get your dogs to run the jenny better than a mill, curious because I've heard some say the contrary of what you just said, that it's hard to get a dog to run all out in a jenny compared to a mill. I have no experience with either a mill or a jenny.
FrostyPaws
01-24-2013, 04:46 PM
John, I don't use any resistance with the dog on the jenny. Just getting that out of the way.
All of my dogs, from the time they're pups, get to play with Kong toys. I have a flirtpole with a kong as the bait, and I simply start flirtpoling the pups as soon as they're old enough to run around and chase things. So, from that time on, all activity involves the kong. So, on my jenny, the kong is attached to a rope. The rope is long enough that as the dog runs, the Kong bounces all willy nilly in front of the dog, and they lose their minds chasing it.
The dogs give a lot more effort on the jenny than they ever have on the mill. They're on the ground for starters, so that eliminates them being elevated at all. The jenny makes no noise, so you can eliminate that aspect also. The faster they run the jenny, the more out of control the kong bounces. which in turn, makes them run it at a faster pace.
Officially Retired
01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
Aside from a more natural, full run being achieved on the jenny, the fact is (running a mill) a dog is "moving a belt" ... but on the ground a dog (running a jenny) is propelling himself forward ... which is a major difference.
Anyone who's ever run a treadmill in a gym "moving a belt" will tell you it's a joke compared to actually running cross-country outside ...
Jack
Jon P. Lebron
01-24-2013, 05:12 PM
Anyone who's ever run a treadmill in a gym "moving a belt" will tell you it's a joke compared to actually running cross-country outside ...
Jack[/QUOTE]
Very true, I can say that personally, when I trained for MMA I did my running outside only used my treadmill when it was raning and it never felt the same. Speaking of which, how much of human strength and conditioning could be used for a dog? Just wondering, which I could make a jenny nut the flirt pole will do for now.
CRISIS
01-24-2013, 05:29 PM
Aside from a more natural, full run being achieved on the jenny, the fact is (running a mill) a dog is "moving a belt" ... but on the ground a dog (running a jenny) is propelling himself forward ... which is a major difference.
Anyone who's ever run a treadmill in a gym "moving a belt" will tell you it's a joke compared to actually running cross-country outside ...
Jack
very true, once the momentum is going all your really doing is "lifting your legs" as compared to running you have no choice but to push your own weight!
which is one reason why i never really understood how the emill benefits a dog........i understand it still raises the heart rate which is the point behind cardio.....but the slatmill seems much more efficiant than the emill would ever be......
anybody have any good plans for a jenny???
CRISIS
01-24-2013, 05:32 PM
Anyone who's ever run a treadmill in a gym "moving a belt" will tell you it's a joke compared to actually running cross-country outside ...
Jack
Very true, I can say that personally, when I trained for MMA I did my running outside only used my treadmill when it was raning and it never felt the same. Speaking of which, how much of human strength and conditioning could be used for a dog? Just wondering, which I could make a jenny nut the flirt pole will do for now.[/QUOTE]
the hardest part would be having the space to do one......im still debating on if thats something i want stored on my property lol..........
Limey Kennels
01-29-2013, 03:07 AM
Aside from a more natural, full run being achieved on the jenny, the fact is (running a mill) a dog is "moving a belt" ... but on the ground a dog (running a jenny) is propelling himself forward ... which is a major difference.
Anyone who's ever run a treadmill in a gym "moving a belt" will tell you it's a joke compared to actually running cross-country outside ...
Jack
compleatly tue!!. altho we have never been able touse a jenny we do stay away from these soupt up hypt up 7/8/9/10 time free spinning mills. they give you a AIROBIC workout only. insted of endurance..
DryCreek
02-01-2013, 10:34 AM
The only focus of using a slate mill is to increase heart and lung longevity.Unless you own a mill with a brake.The brake can be used to create more tension on the front wheels which deflects pressure to make your hound have to work harder to spin that Slat mill.
It is not completely like using a carpet mill but damn close.
When conditioning a dog. The more exercises he or she is involved in will bring you closer to what you are trying to achieve.I find walking a dog for hours on end is just over rated.I walk a dog to empty and that's it. Once he or she is empty, we start the serious stuff.
JM2C
hey TFX have you ever been up to sand creek rd. up in arbuckle??? i found it on google earth, looks like a great place to work dogs in that manner.......i wouldnt mind the hour 1/2 trip to try it out! lol
Never been there, but Arbuckle is only about 45 minutes from your grandpa's place.
Ok, do ya put any type of resistance other than a chain. I've seen some where the wooked up a house door side ways and another that had a tarp I guess for wind resistance once the dog runs.
The chain I used on my jenny was not a normal chain, it was a ship anchor chain that I could wrap up or drop. It acted as a counter weight opposite the dog in either scenario, but by dropping it the dog would drag a few feet of it adding a resistance element to the catmill work. This is no different than when I used both a slat and carpet mill to acheive two different kinds of training, but once again much more natural than both of those tools.
very true, once the momentum is going all your really doing is "lifting your legs" as compared to running you have no choice but to push your own weight!
which is one reason why i never really understood how the emill benefits a dog........i understand it still raises the heart rate which is the point behind cardio.....but the slatmill seems much more efficiant than the emill would ever be......
anybody have any good plans for a jenny???
I've used the e-mill too on a couple, and one went over 2:45. He must not have been in too bad of shape eh?:lol:
My preference as far as workouts is as follows:
Roadwork with the truck
Jenny
Ground work (Flirtpole or Fetch)
Slat Mill
Carpet Mill
Electric Mill
Swimming
CRISIS
02-05-2013, 07:24 PM
Never been there, but Arbuckle is only about 45 minutes from your grandpa's place.
oh...i didnt realize it was that close........thats my new house i was tellin you about...
DOGGIN4LYFE
02-06-2013, 05:01 PM
i got a question i've always been around guys that use a mill. i would like to know what kind of prepping to the ground do you have to do before use even put your hound on a jenny for exercising.
Jon P. Lebron
02-08-2013, 06:36 PM
How does conditioning a dog on a jenny differentiate from a dog conditioned with flirt pole? It seems like they would be similar type of work, both are on the ground, with both the dog has a more natural gate. I would actually think that with the flirt pole the dog gets better coordination and reflexes.
CRISIS
02-08-2013, 08:05 PM
your actually right on john! coordination is a key factor in the sport.....it is used more the coordination excercise than it is for cardio.......
a lot of folks mistake flirt work for cardio (or worse resistance), while it does provide a higher heart rte anytime your dog is working....sometimes people play tug with theyre flirt pole (which i never do personally) it really the coordination your after.....
what i do is i make em work for it, when they finally catch it i let go and praise (it theyres now! they earned it), teaching that hard work pays off........
most of my flirt sessions dont really go past 15 or so mins for the adults......
for pups, ill play with em for 5 mins or so to keep it fun for them.....
jenny= sprintwork, cardio workout
flirt= mind excercise with minimal cardio
Hello TFX. That was V. Jackson's main way of working his dogs. When he was much younger and lived in Beaufort S.C. He had miles and miles of long soft dirt roads back in the Paris Island Marine base. Wide enough to run two tanks or maybe three.
He was a Supply Staff Sargent and could get or have anything made he wanted. He had the marine mechanics take his old Ford or Chevy Truck and put a speed govern on it. That he could work inside the Truck. He got the Welding shop to make a long arm apparatus that fitted over the hood of the truck. Could be put on and taken off. The arm went far enough out to prevent the dog from getting run over. V.J. could sit in the truck watch the dog. Talk to it when it needed some praise or encouragement.
V.J. fixed a leash hook set up. Where he could release the dog to do 100 to 150 ft. wind sprints. This would occur when the dog saw the shining eyes of the possum in the head lights. A pit dog will sprint like a bat out of hell to get a possum. LOL Ease up along side of dog break dog off possum. Then a short walk to cool down. Right back to road work. The possums would vary from night to night. May have been thousands of possums in that swamp. Never run out of possums. LOL
Would build those dogs up depending on size to be able to lope non stop except for possum sprint stops and urinating stops. For up to 5 miles to 10 miles. Mileage would vary according to type of dog and it's size.
Bad weather days would take dog into Base during day. Had plenty of empty large hanger bay type buildings to access. Would get some of those young marines to hand walk them and jog them. Evening time used his slat mill which was under a small shed.
The rest was good feed. He did not win all his matches. Had a very good win loss record though. The dogs that lost did not lose due to poor conditioning. When he got back to Texas his whole world changed. He was a lot older and went from the humid South East to dry desert type weather in Texas. He had to learn a whole new bag of dog tricks. Like me his get up and go had got up and went. LOL
Many ways to skin a cat and many ways to work a dog. Lots of natural running/sprinting and trotting is hard to beat. It takes a pack of hounds awhile to catch a Wily Coyote. They stay in shape the natural way. LOL
The flirt pole is a great conditioner as well, especially for the dogs that go nuts over the object on the other end. Like all conditioning activities and conditioning tools one must look at what the dog will be doing in competition. The people version would be 'sport specific' training. This concept can be applied to the dogs as well. The dog sees what he wants and explodes after it with all he has targeting his bite to a moving object. Sounds a lot like like scratching to a hold or swapping one hold for another. The flirt pole can lead to what is called a fast mouth dog. The changing of direction, all out one way and in a blink all out the other. This mimics the swapping of a hold or defensive posturing. These movements are bursts, fast twitch muscle fiber, going from all out to nothing (or at least it appears nothing as they focus to move but every fiber of their being is focused on biting what is on the end of the string) which mimics a flurry. And the last it teaches the coordination to bite the intended target. The hardest, fastest mouth is worth nothing if it dives in and comes up with carpet in his mouth. And for me, and the most important, his feet is on the ground and he is not only supporting his body weight but he is changing his direction and propelling that weight forward or whatever direction the target travels.
The Jenny follows suit with the idea of the best conditioners are the ones that keep the dogs feet on the ground. His scratch or his push or his driving is done carrying/propelling his own body weight plus some of the weight of the opponent. On show night the floor will not spin out from under him and propel him into a hold or a deep defensive position. He must do that on his own and it is better for him to be prepared to do so in the same format. Basically when on the ground the dog is always under load in every thing he does, where as the slat mills, especially the really nice ones, he is just keeping up with the belt. There is nothing wrong with a slat mill but if it is so free that there is slack in the chain hook-up there is a lot of wasted motion. If a slat mill is used there should be tension on the chain as the dog is propelling at least part of his weight forward. I personally prefer the carpet mill over the slat mill but that is an entirely different subject.
The first Jenny I ever saw was in the mountains of NC. It was a turn table made out of square steel tubing. The table must have been a 10 or 12 footer. There were two arms that could be added to opposite sides that converted the table to a Jenny in just a few minutes. It was nice. He had a male that could make the arms look like helicopter rotors. That dog could move. The next best one was hidden right in the middle of a horse farm. This place had a motorized horse walker. Kids were learning to ride horses. Horses were put on it for daily exercise. At night the chain was taken off the motor and it was used by the dogs. That is the biggest drawback to the Jenny is its size. The bigger the better but it takes up a ton of room and with that much room, for most, that is very little privacy.
The first Jenny I saw used counterweights on the opposite arm but also had differing lengths of chain to drag for resistance. I built one similar to that one with a table some years back. I liked it a lot and thought the dogs worked it rather well. The key is to start them off young getting the accustom to chasing something they want. I liked the turntable on it as well. Back then we lived on the end of a dirt road with no one around at all. The land leading to us was developed and somethings can't be explained away to the neighbors. So I traded in the jenny and stuck to the carpet mills, hand walking and explosion work. Those can be a lot more private. EWO
I am sure this won't consist of plans but...I made mine from a mobile home axle. It is a 3" steel pipe concreted in the ground with the hub about 3' off the ground. I attached a steel frame to the wheel to make a table. I attached plywood and carpet to the frame to make a running surface. The frame of the table was made out of 2" square tubing. The arms were 12 ft if I remember, maybe 14' that extended out that bolted on or off. One had a the hook for the dog and the bait. Picture a field goal post parallel to the ground. The other had a counterweights attached. I have seen pictures where jugs of water were used as counter weights. Like most effective conditioning tools it is very simple and very basic. Not sure of this helps as far as plans or blueprints go. EWO
very true, once the momentum is going all your really doing is "lifting your legs" as compared to running you have no choice but to push your own weight!
which is one reason why i never really understood how the emill benefits a dog........i understand it still raises the heart rate which is the point behind cardio.....but the slatmill seems much more efficiant than the emill would ever be......
anybody have any good plans for a jenny???
I did not know I was doing it at the time till the round table was complete. I used a older model positive traction Pontiac rear end axle. I put it in the ground deep enough so that when you sat down by the table. It was running just a little under knee high. Running lower to the ground the dogs were much more comfortable and not afraid of falling off the table. I was lucky that it had no bounce problems but run real steady.
Mine was a 16 foot table covered in thick cotton felt well padded but not over padded. I left all the hog head gears/shaft on both ends intact. So when the table revolved all those gears were turning. I made sure all seals were sealed and full of oil with all bearings tight and greased.
What I ended up with was a table that turned no faster than the dog was running. Dog sped up it sped up at same rate of pace and slowed down the same. Never over ran the dog. It was sort of like a Small Jenny with the right amount of Treadmill drag combo.
One other thing I did on this round table was place the overhead pulling beam one foot forward of the center of table. Had three different hook up points to get the dog running in what I called the sweet spot. As dog tired would fall back to center of table and not into the back of it.
My Jenny was a full 80 feet long. Built a soft mulch track and placed some piles of saw dust at the four corners of the circle. When a dog wanted to run to fast would hit those piles and bog down. A few times of this they would settle down and do a nice fast coyote dog trot.
The type Flirt pole work I did was off a overhead cable that was about 75 to 100 ft long attached to two high over head trees. Would give and pull back slowly like a Large deep sea fishing pole. Would flirt dog up and down and do some ahead pulling against the cable. I did use a well made pulling harness. Did not work off a collar have seen vein and artery infection/inflammation done to the neck and throat area.
The outside weather always played a major part of what I used and noted what the dog worked the best. Did have a well made slat mill but seldom used it. Still have to walk them in between cycles of work. If one can get in some AM walking is a plus.
I tried to do a hard day one not as hard second day and easier day third day and then a Rest day. The flirt work being the hardest. The Table next and the Jenny third. Nothing was written in stone. The Weather could play a big part of what one could do. I tried to be prepared for what the situation called for.
Another way to make a swing jenny beam is find some one who sells those small section CB radio towers. The smaller sizes are three pipes welded in a triangle bridge. Came in ten foot sections. Just a thought. Could save a lot of time trying to weld up one or make one like a suspension bride with cables. Good Luck. Just another crazy story of old history and some entertainment.
bolero
03-27-2013, 11:31 AM
very true, once the momentum is going all your really doing is "lifting your legs" as compared to running you have no choice but to push your own weight!
which is one reason why i never really understood how the emill benefits a dog........i understand it still raises the heart rate which is the point behind cardio.....but the slatmill seems much more efficiant than the emill would ever be......
anybody have any good plans for a jenny???
an e mill and a slat mill are totally different, but not all dogs are going to run a slat mill or jenny while most will run an e mill. just recently watched STP yard tour and he used an e mill and flirt pole for bad rosemarys first if an e mill is good enough for them it is definitely good enough for me
bolero
03-27-2013, 11:34 AM
The only focus of using a slate mill is to increase heart and lung longevity.Unless you own a mill with a brake.The brake can be used to create more tension on the front wheels which deflects pressure to make your hound have to work harder to spin that Slat mill.
It is not completely like using a carpet mill but damn close.
When conditioning a dog. The more exercises he or she is involved in will bring you closer to what you are trying to achieve.I find walking a dog for hours on end is just over rated.I walk a dog to empty and that's it. Once he or she is empty, we start the serious stuff.
JM2C
it depends on how u hand walk if u got a dog that wont do anything but that u can grab a 30 ft lead and hit the trails letting the dog sprint walk and chase things and that dog should be good especially if u add resistance
Officially Retired
03-30-2013, 11:53 AM
jenny= sprintwork, cardio workout
flirt= mind excercise with minimal cardio
Totally disagree. A flirtpole provides major cardio if you're doing it right. 5 minutes is not doing it right.
Jon P. Lebron
03-30-2013, 05:06 PM
Totally disagree. A flirtpole provides major cardio if you're doing it right. 5 minutes is not doing it right.
I have to agree with Jack on this, the flirt pole sessions I give my dog give him a great cardio workout. The session is 10 minutes, but the method allows for him to go all out every time. This is how it goes,
First round
60 sec work
60 sec rest
60 sec work
60 sec rest
60 sec work
60 sec rest
60 sec work
60 sec rest
Second round
45 sec work
45 sec rest
45 sec work
45 sec rest
45 sec work
45 sec rest
45 sec work
45 sec rest
Third round
30 sec work
30 sec rest
30 sec work
30 sec rest
30 sec work
30 sec rest
30 sec work
30 sec rest
Fourth round
15 sec work
15 sec rest
15 sec work
15 sec rest
15 sec work
15 sec rest
15 sec work
15 sec rest
I got this from a strength and conditioning boxing trainer, I personally used it for my training. By the fourth round he is completely exhausted, I follow it by a 30 min cool down walk. During the rest periods I have him walking next to me.
The flirt pole is excellent cardio work. Anything that provokes a dog to go all out, change direction, and go all out again it is just about as good as it gets in the cardio world. Same as with people. Look at the people exercise and weight loss industry. Shaun T has become a millionaire doing continual non stop direction changing exercises. Flirt pole is continual, non stop direction changing exercises for the dogs. Maybe Shaun T saw a bulldog doing flirtpole work and the light bulb went off. LOL...EWO
CRISIS
03-31-2013, 07:23 AM
Totally disagree. A flirtpole provides major cardio if you're doing it right. 5 minutes is not doing it right.
Your right, it will gas the hell out of them.... But there are better cardio routines IMO, unless FP is the only thing that works than sure....i just believe its main benefits is the stop & go, & coordination it helps......maybe i was unfair about saying minimal cardio.......
5 minutes IS doing it right when your breakin in a pup to it! Keep it fun, keep it short..........it isnt like folks work pups like theyre in keep...just teaching em the tools of theyre trade & keep em wanting it.
CRISIS
03-31-2013, 07:26 AM
I do a Lot of flirt work, i just incorprrate other things.....everything serves its purpose though....
True, it is not the end all be all of cardio but it is a great tool. The best conditioning scenarios is when one has a lot of tools in the shed. Flirt poling is just one. EWO
Officially Retired
04-01-2013, 03:56 AM
Your right, it will gas the hell out of them.... But there are better cardio routines IMO, unless FP is the only thing that works than sure....i just believe its main benefits is the stop & go, & coordination it helps......maybe i was unfair about saying minimal cardio.......
5 minutes IS doing it right when your breakin in a pup to it! Keep it fun, keep it short..........it isnt like folks work pups like theyre in keep...just teaching em the tools of theyre trade & keep em wanting it.
I guess everyone's technique is different, but dogs will gas out quick on a flirt pole ... and the side-to-side muscle-conditioning adds benefits that straight running can't duplicate IMO.
Jack
I agree the side to side movement/changing of direction can't be duplicated on a mill of any sorts or road work. I personally like to think about the dog in the midst of competing. I try to factor in all the things he is doing as well as how he does them. I try to duplicate or mimic those movements in his work. The flirt pole accomplishes a lot of these. These dogs do not move from hold to hold at a snail's pace and the target is usually moving. You gotta get their quick. That movement is sometimes side to side, but a lot of times it is in a contorted manner. Body twisted in a certain way across the abdomen or along the spine. From these contorted positions they explode from spot to spot. If these muscles, in these positions and at these angles, are not worked and prepared then when they are used on show night those muscles will tire and leave him early. The flirt pole adds to cardio and targeting but it also adds to muscular endurance that a mill or a walk can't. EWO
CRISIS
04-01-2013, 09:16 AM
I guess everyone's technique is different, but dogs will gas out quick on a flirt pole ... and the side-to-side muscle-conditioning adds benefits that straight running can't duplicate IMO.
Jack
Tushay!
In my part of the country. We have had nothing but rain about every two too three days for the last two months or so. Had great crops in the fields, but the excessive rain has damaged about 40 percent of all the rotation crops.
Unless one had a really large farm type building or barn to put a smaller version Jenny in. If one had a dog to show in any of these summer months, would not get much use out of a out side Jenny. Even when the rain quits for awhile, still takes so many sunny days for the track to dry up. A jenny is a great working tool long as the weather is good.
I might add, try working a dog on a Jenny or Road Work in the freezing cold with a wind blowing. You and the dog will not be out there very long. One cannot do Road Work in the Rain either. I know, been there done that.
Why it is wise to have a big enough building for a large round table and room enough for a slat mill and E-mill. You can not depend on just a Jenny, like any good boy scout, have to be prepared for all those little foxes that spoil the grape vine. Cheers
If I was getting into the dog game today. I would buy the latest up dated books written by dog men like Faron , Robert Lemm, and California Jack's books. Sure there are other books, I do not know about that are highly recommended. Even in Don Mayfield's keep where he mentions those two tid bits of info. from Saddler and Tudor are good to know.
I leaned how too better build and use a round table from Mr. Teal's advise and a article written by Saddler or Fitzwater in a older 1940's or 50's Blood lines magazine I had.
With the great improvements today on slat mills and new diet ideas. I feel all one would need is a top quality Slat Mill, a E-Mill and enough land to hand walk the dog. The other out side option is a good flirt pole and weight pulling area if one wishes to do that. This would at least help keep you out of the eyes of the John Q public who are well informed about our dogs today.
I would advise one too only have the one dog to be worked on their property period. After dog pulling show send dog some where else for rest and recovery. Have a hunting license and dog showing credentials.
You have a trust worthy Wife, Child etc. Put all your property and things of great value in their names. They should not be attending dog pulling shows. Just keep your living rights.
Do not enter a multi dog pulling show. I would not be caught ten miles near one today. Do only a one dog pulling show with a small limited # of dog pulling participates. Stay out of the magazines with any info. on self. The Self Glory days are over my friends. Pride goeth before Destruction. LOL
If the law or humane society gives you a hassle. They are only going to get hopefully, a empty care package. You have the right to a state appointed lawyer if your income is not to high. Lawyers and Judges only want your money, property and play politics to feather their hats.
Getting back on subject. S. McNeil before he went south on us all. Was a good dog man that had his dog's in very good pulling shape. He got info. help from V. Jackson and Irish Jerry. He used a well built Slat Mill and a E- Mill along with road work and hand walking when the weather was good.
A proper made round table can also be put inside to simulate road work when the weather is bad. For those who do not want too or can not do road work or build big Jenny mills. These other methods will get the job done and keep you out of the bad weather and prying eyes. Cheers
All pretty good advice. EWO
Officially Retired
08-23-2013, 02:58 AM
I agree, all pretty good advice ... however ... not every day is a rainy day ... so (if I were active) I would NOT be building my conditioning platform around "rainy days" ... but rather would just be prepared for them :idea:
In other words, because I feel the jenny is best, I would be using that every day I could, and would only switch to the mill on days I had to ... rather than only use the mill because "it might rain" someday. The weightpull harness and flirtpole also comprise my preferred keep. I personally would only use the mill on days I had to.
Don't get me wrong: I have a full mill keep too, that is pretty good, but I don't think it is as good as the main keep I have ... which has no millwork at all ... but plenty of jenny/pull/flirtpole work.
Jack
Officially Retired
08-23-2013, 03:02 AM
In the end, running on a mill is different from running on the ground.
When a dog runs a mill, his feet "move a belt" ...
When a dog runs on the ground, its feet/legs propel its whole body forward ... and that is a BIG difference as to what is happening to the animal's musculature and (therefore) overall condition :idea:
gotap_d
08-24-2013, 06:09 PM
In the end, running on a mill is different from running on the ground.
When a dog runs a mill, his feet "move a belt" ...
When a dog runs on the ground, its feet/legs propel its whole body forward ... and that is a BIG difference as to what is happening to the animal's musculature and (therefore) overall condition :idea:
Here's my question. I have a hard turning slat mill on a slight incline. What is the explanation for the dog moving from the back to the front of the mill?
No one is saying there is an absolute lack of propulsion forward on the mill. There is work there. With a hard turning mill on the incline if the dog is only slightly faster than the mill he will move to the front. If he is slightly slower the hook up will get tight the other way.
Same with us on an escalator. If we ride it up there is no real output other than standing upright. If we run up the escalator we get there faster but with less work than if we ran the steps generating our weigh forward/upward. If the walking surface is moving (escalator/treadmill/slat mill) there is not the same amount of propulsion required to generate movement forward.
That goes for any mill of any type. Any time the dog is carrying his weight and propelling his weight and the time/distances are the same the dog propelling his weight will benefit more. EWO
gotap_d
08-25-2013, 02:03 PM
No one is saying there is an absolute lack of propulsion forward on the mill. There is work there. With a hard turning mill on the incline if the dog is only slightly faster than the mill he will move to the front. If he is slightly slower the hook up will get tight the other way.
Same with us on an escalator. If we ride it up there is no real output other than standing upright. If we run up the escalator we get there faster but with less work than if we ran the steps generating our weigh forward/upward. If the walking surface is moving (escalator/treadmill/slat mill) there is not the same amount of propulsion required to generate movement forward.
That goes for any mill of any type. Any time the dog is carrying his weight and propelling his weight and the time/distances are the same the dog propelling his weight will benefit more. EWO
I dont see how running up an escalator that is already going up is the same as any kind of mill. Dogs dont move in the same direction as any mill they are working.
Just for the example, if we go up the escalator that is coming down that would be the same as the dog moving the belt in the opposite direction. Instead of a person pressing down and propelling his weight upward and outward to the next step the step moves away from the foot. On the ground a dog, or on actual steps, a person must generate the power to propel himself/herself forward.
An avid runner will tell you there is tons of difference between running on a tread mill and running down a road. Same with the dogs. EWO
gotap_d
08-26-2013, 09:07 AM
I agree that there is a difference between natural running and running on a mill that is level with the ground. I dont think either escalator example is the same though. But did you say there is propulsion on a hard mill on an incline.
There is propulsion on a mill on an incline and when level. EWO