Increasing weight during keep

[Pk923]

Hello all

Right now I've got a dog that is 31days into his keep and his weight seem to be dropping faster than optimum. In Jack's book, he said that to increase weight, one should adjust the raw frozen mixture while maintaing the oil and supplement constant. However, I've found out that every time I feed the dog more than 3% of his body weight, his stool start to turn loose. Would switching to higher protein source meat be the solution? ( ex: chicken to beef etc.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[EWO]

I am not sure I understand 'faster than optimum"??? Need more information. Is his weight loss going to below the chosen weight? How far over when he started? Lots of variables here. If the work is right and the dog is healthy, adjust his food accordingly. If there is a lot of work going on 3% is normally not a lot. Check what you are feeding and then maybe check the dog. Not sure any of this helps but there are lots of variables. EWO

[skipper]

U could try to feed 2% twice a day. Fat and carbs is something i use when im working one. Got friends that done it for 15 years with good results. Is it first time out? Could you just be wrong about his weight?

[R2L]

Higher protein is not going to help thats for sure. You are already feeding a higher % protein by increasing his feed.
Instead, you usually get loose stool with an oversupply of protein.

[Limey Kennels]

Carbs wil give a dog more weight!!!!!!. due to the dog useing less Fat and protien... as Carbs are the first and fastest energy sours a dog leans to!!!!!!. Ofthen people think in winter time ore during a keep they need to feed more fat and protien to give a dog more weighy, RED FLAG...... feed the dog exstra carbs in his stable diet and you wil see his weight come up

[OGDOGG]

Bring the dog inside. You're wasting a lot more food trying to keep his weight up.

[Pk923]

@ Ewo, Your suggestion is greatly appreciated and yes, his weight loss is going below his chosen weight. Maybe my mistake was started the Pre keep when he was about 2 lbs under and figure I could increase his weight along the way. As for his stool, it get worse during rest days (almost like ice cream texture). His CBC was normal before the keep and also after 30 days.

@ skipper, thank you for your suggestion. Maybe for next one i would add carb but right now I really want to experiment with protein and fat and see if it work.

@ R2L Thank you

@ OGDOGG Thank you

[Limey Kennels]

Another problem that could be the problem is that your Diet is not wel balansed. this is ofthen the case with raw meat diets.when dogs are in a keep.
When your dog has less of one nutritiend and to much of another one. thin stool ore cream as you wrote it is a direct link to that..

[splash747]

Pk923...maybe you've thought about this, not sure. Satin Balls, as needed might be a little late in the game though. good luck

[Pk923]

@Limey kennels thank you, I will look into a more balance diet recipe.

@splash747, thank you, I've not tried satin ball but will definitely consider it, thanks you once again.

[OGDOGG]

He's using the raw frozen(chicken) patty. It's got everything in it.
The way I see it, the dog was outside, it's cold, dog shiver its fat off. He started off with the dog being under weight. Dog gets worked out, fed and stays outside. 30 days later, the dog looks like shit, it's getting closer to show date and all he does is try to give dog more patty. Dogs stool is loose and he ran out of ideas.
With that thin of layer of fat on the dog, there's no way the dog could make weight even if he is fed all the food suggested above. He needs to bring the dog inside. It's the only way it'll make weight.
I live in the coldest part of the US. I have to deal with this weather every year. Putting one in a keep at below temp is my specialty.

[EWO]

Coming inside should help. The weather is a factor no doubt. I use a lot of cooked brown rice in the colder months. It serves as a filler. If everything else with the dog is fine, he is healthy the called weight could be wrong. We had one once that was an active chain dog. Anything he heard, whereas other dogs would bark, he would run. I mean a 10ft. chain stiff as a board and just about an all out sprint. His spot looked like a jenny track. He was near peak condition all the time and his chain weight was his called weight. In this case, not knowing all the variable or specifics, I would guess if all is well with the dog, the called weight is not correct. Best of luck. EWO

[Pk923]

@ OGDOGG thank you again for your advice. Yes it's true, I'm running out of ideas. By the way, average night temperature in this part of the world is around 22-25 Celsius (72-77f)

@ EWO thank you, "his spot looked like a Jenny track" ! Must be one active dog.

[splash747]

if you got the time... (2" in diameter) 2 Satin Balls with his feed for 7-10 days. it won't interfere with the diet you on now because ingredients (exclude salt if recipe calls for it) are all natural too and it will give you the boost in weight and your work will control it. only if you got time, an if he's a active dog crate him sooner...don't leave it on the "Jenny Track", i would not think he's cold with overnite temps in the 70's in a good solid dog house away from stimulation. good luck

[tasoschatz]

I will go with Limey on that, for a change. Carbs, they will spare proteins and fats plus the insulin effect is a must for fat and weight gain. Both fast and slow acting.
I wouldn't like it year round, I have seen many diabetic dogs, but for your case this would be my choice.

[Pk923]

Thank you, splash747 and tasoschatz, I will definitely give the satin ball a try. Some carb in the diet would be a good idea at this stage of my keep.

[bently]

i was always taught by the great vine to never have the dog weight drop under there hunt weight. you dont want to drop the weight quickly, you want to drop weight slowly but effiently. dropping to fast will hurt the dog because it's not used to performing at a weight as such, but giving him/her time and dropping weight slowly will get the dog used to being at the weight for awhile and performing at that weight.

remember the dog will increase weight on his own naturally but it may be the workout. make sure you have rest days, and dont overwork the dog. when are you feeding? have you wormed the dog out before the keep?

also be consistent wilth your workout and feed. changing the workout, workout times, times

[R2L]

dropping to fast will hurt the dog because it's not used to performing at a weight as such

that is not the reason imo. the body needs nutrients to maintain its health and to recover. if you cut to much you will mess up its blood values, its energy, its muscle and what not.

but i guess this thread is about increasing weight

[Officially Retired]

Thank you, splash747 and tasoschatz, I will definitely give the satin ball a try. Some carb in the diet would be a good idea at this stage of my keep.

I agree with OGDogg on this, namely bringing the dog inside (or putting him in a pen).

Your problem (assuming you've called the weight right) is simple: your dog is burning more calories than what you're giving him :idea:

For starters, you've got him on a keep, so he's burning more calories than usual right there, and secondly your dog should not be on a chain, because he runs that while your away, burning still more calories. This means he is simply not getting enough calories in his diet to match what he's burning off 24/7 :idea:

If you investigate the meaning behing the word, "keep," the conditioning procees is called a "keep" because you're supposed to KEEP your dog up and away from everything, including the dirt/ground, other dogs, etc. ... usually indoors or in an above-ground pen ... so he stays CALM AND QUIET when he's not being conditioned. Why do you think this is recommended? Precisely so that your dog CAN RECOVER from the work and not burn himself up! In fact, I know people who have wire on the bottom of their keep pens, so that it is uncomfortable for the dog to walk, again precisely so that their dog will want to stay in its house and rest. (Their keep pens are always in heavily-shaded areas, away from all other dogs.)

By the sound of it, you're just yanking your dog off the chain to work, then feeding him a low-calorie diet, and then putting him back on the chain ... where he continues to run his ass off all day ... and then you're wondering "why" he can't keep the weight on :shocked:

Sure, you can keep doing what you're doing, and follow some of the "advice" that's been given here & dump a bunch of rice in his diet (low-budget kibble, etc.). I personally would add more fat to the diet before I added more carbs. So give this a try (lard, chicken fat, etc.) ... OR ... you could give Best Practice a try and KEEP your dog off a chain (where he's running around and still exposed to worms, etc.) ... deworm him again and get him OFF the ground entirely ... either inside as OFDogg suggests or in a proper keep pen ... and see how that goes, once he stops burning his candle at both ends :idea:

Jack

PS: If your problem is that you failed to call the weight right, then your solution is equally-simple: PAY THE FORFEIT and re-hook at the proper weight, once you get his true weight pegged.

[Officially Retired]

By the way ... starting a dog off under weight is never a good idea IMO ... no professional athletes on the planet EVER do this ... and neither should you do this with your canine athlete :idea:

[luvmybulldogs]

surprisingly, nobody said he may have called the wrong weight??