Vise Grip's (Johnson) Goddess

[redmistkennel]

Anybody have any info on this dog or its littermates?
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pu ... _id=217328 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=217328)
Any help appreciated.Thank you.

[redmistkennel]

How about info on her parents?

[Officially Retired]

TFX and I tried to resurrect the OFRN dogs by purchasing some heavy-bred specimens of the line. I actually created another kennel name "Crimson Magic" to reflect my effort to do so, as I felt these dogs were some truly beautiful animals and I really did want to restore some integrity to them.

Goddess's original name was Crimson Magic Goddess (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=118185), and she indeed was a beautiful bitch. She came from a 4-pup litter, with 3 making it to adulthood, but as to their current whereabouts I haven't a clue.

Regarding her parents, we were 'told' that Ch Red Rusty (conformation) was also a game dog, but I never saw him do anything with my own two eyes. What I did know is that he was physically incapable of breeding Legacy, so I had to AI the bitch. We were also told that Red Legacy was a "game-tested" bitch by Schumard, and after I got her back to my place and let her acclimate fully to me, she wouldn't even defend herself when I looked at her: just laid on her back, pulling her head away, and pushing "out" with her legs. I also had 2 other OFRN bitches that were like this: just refused to do anything. Meanwhile, before I bought these dogs, Conan did a cross with the sire to them (Rusty) with his Cherry Coke bitch (from me), and I got the stunningly-gorgeous male Diablo Rojo (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=69486). Unfortunately, after I did the breeding to Red Rusty, and while the litter Goddess was from was growing up, I watched their half-brother Diablo Rojo quit in ridiculously-short time in school.

After this repeated succession of utter failure, we dumped them all. These dogs were simply wasting the chain spaces that better dogs of my main line could be using. Now then, I fully realize that other people may have different experiences, and I understand that I cannot speak for the quality of 'every' OFRN dog out there, but EVERY single one that I personally saw was so far from being what I consider to be "a good dog" that it wasn't worth any more of my effort to fool with them. If any of these dogs had at least been "stupid-game" I would have had something to go on ... but I couldn't get a single bitch to so much as fire-up ... and the one cross-male who did fire-up couldn't make it to the better side of :20 against an average dog (Pretty Boy (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=98399)) ... yet his mama (from me) was a super-talented, brutal bitch ... which the infusion of Rusty ruined.

Regarding the specific bitch you posted, Goddess, I have no doubt that she probably turned out to be a stunning and beautiful bitch, by conformation and "pet" standards. And, while it might be "possible" that Goddess turned out to be a good bitch, by BULLDOG standards, I doubt that very much.

Jack

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[redmistkennel]

Thank you Jack.I only ask about her as a friend of mine is supposed to get her.I have heard mixed storiess on legacy.I have only heard good on Rusty but thought I could get better insight from you.

[Officially Retired]

Thank you Jack.I only ask about her as a friend of mine is supposed to get her.I have heard mixed storiess on legacy.I have only heard good on Rusty but thought I could get better insight from you.

A friend of yours is supposed to get Legacy or Goddess?

Both of them are beautiful dogs, and there is nothing at all wrong with admiring dogs for their beauty. What is wrong, however, is trying to pass-off dogs as something they're not. Now I can't honestly comment on Goddess' ability, as I let her go before the age of maturity. But the truth of the matter is, if someone is looking to breed World Class Performance Dogs, these dogs are simply not the way to go.

And as for "hearing only good things" about Rusty, I heard the same things too. But what I saw off of him was pretty far from being what I would call "good." Admittedly, I have not seen Red Rusty go, but I have seen the dog in person, and he was not an athletic dog. Now then, I do not want to turn this forum into a bashing board, or to use it to slam other lines or other dogs, that is the last thing I want to do. I want to keep things positive, not negative.

However, the simple truth is, some dogs (and some bloodlines) are simply NOT able to compete in open competition, and being honest and truthful in saying so isn't being mean or unfair, it is only calling reality for what it is. Therefore, while I haven't seen Red Rusty for myself, what I do know is the fellow who had him has never bred a winner in his life, so take his "only good things to say" about Red Rusty with a pretty big grain of salt ...

The only time a man saying "only good things" counts is pretty much when there's a steady stream of excellence coming from his yard and program to back that up. If Fletcher Chavis had "only good things" to say about a prospect of his, that would carry some serious weight with me, because of the repeated and consistent success that continuously came from Chavis' program. But the same thing cannot be said for what's come out of the program headed by Rusty's owner ... and now that I know all of the facts surrounding these dogs, it is my sincere belief that the "only good things" that have been said about Red Rusty were over-exaggeration ... at best.

This is just my honest opinion,

Jack

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[redmistkennel]

He is supposed to get Goddess.I doubt he cares about her performance.I was just curious for myself to see if she was worth trying one off of.

[TownBizz]

I had a male dog that was doubled up on a son of Goddess and he was not worth my time! He was a straight cur and had manbiter tendencies. I would not move forward with anything with Goddess...that's just my opinion because of the bad experience I had with mine. Although I do know 2 guys that had dogs from the same litter and they are very happy with them.

[redmistkennel]

Nice to see you joined townbizz.Lots of good info on here.

[TownBizz]

Nice to see you joined townbizz.Lots of good info on here.

Good info is where you find it! It's just a matter of keeping an open mind! Narrow minds will get you nowhere!!!

Much repect to Jack for making this board available!!!

[TownBizz]

We were also told that Red Legacy was a "game-tested" bitch by Schumard, and after I got her back to my place and let her acclimate fully to me, she wouldn't even defend herself when I looked at her: just laid on her back, pulling her head away, and pushing "out" with her legs.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... g_id=99718 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=99718)

I guess there were 3 breedings done with Legacy while she was in your possesion....my question is why would you use her in the first place of she didn't do anything for you? I definitely wouldn't have if I got the results that you seen? Just wondering...

[redmistkennel]

Nice to see you joined townbizz.Lots of good info on here.

Good info is where you find it! It's just a matter of keeping an open mind! Narrow minds will get you nowhere!!!

Much repect to Jack for making this board available!!!
I agree completely.That is why I enjoy the ofrn forum so much.Full of good info.

[Officially Retired]

We were also told that Red Legacy was a "game-tested" bitch by Schumard, and after I got her back to my place and let her acclimate fully to me, she wouldn't even defend herself when I looked at her: just laid on her back, pulling her head away, and pushing "out" with her legs.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... g_id=99718 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=99718)
I guess there were 3 breedings done with Legacy while she was in your possesion....my question is why would you use her in the first place of she didn't do anything for you? I definitely wouldn't have if I got the results that you seen? Just wondering...

Two breedings were done, the other was a proposed breeding.

As to why breed her at all, fair question, and the answer is because I know sometimes cold bitches produce. I figured we had her, may as well see if something might come of it. If she would have started, and then quit, I would not have ... but she never did anything. So I gave her breeder the benefit of the doubt.

But when the son of the male quit in :15, I thought, "What am I wasting my time with this stuff for?"

Jack

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[TownBizz]

That's fair! I know all things don't work out but I respect that you at least gave the breeder the benefit of the doubt! We've corresponded on the situation before on peds online...my old username on there is norcalreds. I'm glad that you clarified. Some people read posts with a narrow mind and there imaginations run wild!

Happy New Year!

[SOULDOG]

YEP Some work and some don't.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=150222 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=150222)

[MISTER]

This one is a 3x 1xgl

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pu ... g_id=89340 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=89340)

[Officially Retired]

This one is a 3x 1xgl
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pu ... g_id=89340 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=89340)

Did you personally see that one go Bobby?

[MISTER]

This isn't bobby. I have seen him go once and got robbed by the cops trying to see the 3rd. They ended up doing it @ another spot, but we cut our losses and went the hell home. I also seen his ass get spanked in a 20 min roll not long before he was sold. And he was giving up wt. Had a couple off him that flat out quit also. Did see his son go into crash's new owners though. I think the blkchef still has crash. I forget the sons name. He had his dogs all kind of military names. Could never understand it.

[Officially Retired]

This isn't bobby. I have seen him go once and got robbed by the cops trying to see the 3rd. They ended up doing it @ another spot, but we cut our losses and went the hell home. I also seen his ass get spanked in a 20 min roll not long before he was sold. And he was giving up wt. Had a couple off him that flat out quit also. Did see his son go into crash's new owners though. I think the blkchef still has crash. I forget the sons name. He had his dogs all kind of military names. Could never understand it.

Getting one's ass kicked spotting weight is what is supposed to happen.

At his best, even weight did you think he was a good dog?

[MISTER]

Crash was the bigger dog. He should have @ least been holding the other one out, since he had previously displayed great D.

I thought he was a good dog. Great dog, no. I heard from someone that saw his L that he would have won had the owner not picked him up. The other could not continue. Something could be said about the comp he faced. More gamblers than dogmen.

[Officially Retired]

Crash was the bigger dog. He should have @ least been holding the other one out, since he had previously displayed great D.
I thought he was a good dog. Great dog, no. I heard from someone that saw his L that he would have won had the owner not picked him up. The other could not continue. Something could be said about the comp he faced. More gamblers than dogmen.

Damn, if Crash was the bigger dog and was getting whipped by a smaller dog, then either that was a great smaller dog, or Crash wasn't much of a dog himself.

All I know is that his brother Diablo was stunningly beautiful, but had zero ability and almost zero gameness.

Maybe Crash was a decent dog (he sure was pretty too), but I'd have to see it to believe he was really a good dog--that is why I asked for your opinion, thanks.

[wrknapbt]

Anybody have any info on this dog or its littermates?
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pu ... _id=217328 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=217328)
Any help appreciated.Thank you.


Have you hit up SI in GA? He has some of that stuff and is very hard on his hog dogs and has a pup that is a catching fool.