When u buy a dog who dog it really is

[unknow kennel]

Why do we have breeder out there sell a dog in after they sold the dog still think in act like they own the dog

[Officially Retired]

1. Generally, if a breeder is a good one, he cares about the fate of his dogs.

2. If he is a good breeder, then he generally knows more about dogs than the average dogman, who can't seem to put his own two dogs together well enough to create his own winners.

3. In knowing more about dogs than the average dogman, the good breeder tries to give good advice to the people who buy his dogs.

4. Unfortunately, most of the people who buy dogs (because they're not at the same level) ignore the good advice given and try to do things "their own way" ... usually recklessly ... and usually with the miserable results the breeder could see were going to happen.

5. As a result of this, the good breeder will become extremely angry a) that his good advice was ignored and b) because his good dog is now fucked up ... while the substandard dogman, who didn't listen to the good advice and who fucked up, will then have to decide if a) he wants to admit his mistake, learn from it, and never do it again or b) he wants to defend his stupidity, fail to learn and grow, and continue to be a bottom-dweller in the sport.

That has been my continual observations after breeding winners all over the world, for over 23 years, and watching the difference in results between good customers and shitty ones.

Thanks for the question,

Jack

[unknow kennel]

The good breeder should keep his dog in weight pull his self with them .if he feel like that about his dog.i don't sell many pup but when I do I tell the new Onwer this your dog now I keptl 4 for my self so i can do what in when i want not worru about the 1 i sold so u do what u want u pay your money.

[R2L]

From the moment you will let one or more go, especially if you're selling to anyone who can bring the money, you know you're going to facepalm yourself one day. 3 options, don't sell, don't care or only let go to selected people.

I'm not to breed happy, but when i do i will always go for option 1.

PS: this is not direct to evo or anybody in particular.

[FrostyPaws]

It's not as simple as that Unknown. I've sold maybe 10 dogs in my life. I don't even know how many I've given away. As the breeder of those dogs, I always wanted the dog to succeed. If the dog didn't make the cut, then I wanted it to be the dog's fault, not the owners. As the breeder, I stayed in touch with the owner of said dogs just to keep up to date with the progress and offer any advice that I thought would benefit the owner and the dog. Since I'd bred those dogs, some for a few generations, and I knew the lineage personally for 4-6 generations on some dogs, I have insight that would do nothing but HELP. That is where the frustration and anger sets in. I am telling the owner what to look for, what not to do at certain times because I KNOW those dogs. When an owner will go ahead and do something that is outright detrimental to the dog's development even AFTER being told it's detrimental, then the owner is just a complete fucktard.

The breeder of the dog is simply looking out for the dog's best interest and trying to help the owner. The owner doesn't give a shit about what the breeder says, nor does he care about the dog. All he cares about is trying to match dogs, but what his dumbass doesn't realize that putting your dog behind the 8 ball from the onset simply does nothing but put you in a hole, and that's a hole you won't come out of if your dog is opposed by a quality opponent.

That is why I don't sell dogs to the GP, and I only give dogs to people I know and trust. The GP of dogdom are just some fuckin idiots, whether they're from the city, the country, have law degrees, or work in a convenience store. 98% of them are dumber than a box of hammers, and simply don't deserve to own any dog that I, or anyone else, has ever bred.

[Officially Retired]

:appl:

[R2L]

:appl:.

[widerange]

I may ask for info from my breeder bc he does know the dogs back ground better then myself but I see my dogs as my dogs. I have no problem letting people know I'm not the breeder and giving someone credit on a job well done when it comes to the breeding but that's it. Far as winning unless the breeder puts in time and or money I don't see why he/she should have any claim to any wins. At most the only credit they should get is being able to put two dogs together that produced a winner. I think breeders forget that old saying about it taking more then just a good dog

[unknow kennel]

This threat was not point at no body I was just Wounder what other think one of white paw baddest son is a house dog I lol lol when I go over i be try to buy him back but he will never get to party so I guest I will all way have one to breed to in by the way people me in EVO or boys Just little bro in big bro shit BUT WE STREIGHT NOW

[Officially Retired]

I may ask for info from my breeder bc he does know the dogs back ground better then myself but I see my dogs as my dogs. I have no problem letting people know I'm not the breeder and giving someone credit on a job well done when it comes to the breeding but that's it. Far as winning unless the breeder puts in time and or money I don't see why he/she should have any claim to any wins. At most the only credit they should get is being able to put two dogs together that produced a winner. I think breeders forget that old saying about it taking more then just a good dog

Mmmmm, that's not giving enough credit to the breeder. That's like saying the race car driver is more important than being in a truly world class race car. The best driver is worth nothing without a good car to sit in. Thus THE AUTO MAKER is the most important, then the driver.

Sure, a lousy driver can crash a great car, but even a ho-hum driver can still compete and "go fast" if he's sitting in a truly-fast car to begin with ... while even the best driver in the world can't do shit sitting inside a Toyota Corolla :idea:

THE most important part of any race is a truly world class car ... from there, what matters are the drivers, but ALL OF THEM (win or lose) need a world class car FIRST in order to be in the running to compete. Because, in a good car, even so-so divers are still going awful damn fast 8)

Back to this, any retard with a great dog can still crash and burn with his stupidity at the helm of greatness, but plenty of novices with great dogs (who have them in halfway decent shape) have beaten great dogmen with just "pretty good" dogs ...

Jack

[widerange]

It's not as simple as that Unknown. I've sold maybe 10 dogs in my life. I don't even know how many I've given away. As the breeder of those dogs, I always wanted the dog to succeed. If the dog didn't make the cut, then I wanted it to be the dog's fault, not the owners. As the breeder, I stayed in touch with the owner of said dogs just to keep up to date with the progress and offer any advice that I thought would benefit the owner and the dog. Since I'd bred those dogs, some for a few generations, and I knew the lineage personally for 4-6 generations on some dogs, I have insight that would do nothing but HELP. That is where the frustration and anger sets in. I am telling the owner what to look for, what not to do at certain times because I KNOW those dogs. When an owner will go ahead and do something that is outright detrimental to the dog's development even AFTER being told it's detrimental, then the owner is just a complete fucktard.

The breeder of the dog is simply looking out for the dog's best interest and trying to help the owner. The owner doesn't give a shit about what the breeder says, nor does he care about the dog. All he cares about is trying to match dogs, but what his dumbass doesn't realize that putting your dog behind the 8 ball from the onset simply does nothing but put you in a hole, and that's a hole you won't come out of if your dog is opposed by a quality opponent.

That is why I don't sell dogs to the GP, and I only give dogs to people I know and trust. The GP of dogdom are just
some fuckin idiots, whether they're from the city, the country, have law degrees, or work in a convenience store. 98% of them are dumber than a box of hammers, and simply don't deserve to own any dog that I, or anyone else, has ever bred.

It's good to know that a breeder out there is putting his dogs in good hands and caring what happens to them later on but if your selling your stock and offering info that's not being took to heart maybe you you select better buyers to sale to or don't sale pups only sale dogs that are of age and ready that way you have already done what your suggesting to the buyer to do? Going by what your saying if you own a car/truck then I'm sure you follow the owners manual to the tee right? Since they are the ones that built the car and should know everything to do with it after you own it. Such as use premium gas and 5-20 w oil or do you use what you think is best since your the one with it everyday and know that one on a personal level

[widerange]

Mmmmm, that's not giving enough credit to the breeder. That's like saying the race car driver is more important than being in a truly world class race car. The best driver is worth nothing without a good car to sit in. Thus THE AUTO MAKER is the most important, then the driver.

Sure, a lousy driver can crash a great car, but even a ho-hum driver can still compete and "go fast" if he's sitting in a truly-fast car to begin with ... while even the best driver in the world can't do shit sitting inside a Toyota Corolla :idea:

THE most important part of any race is a truly world class car ... from there, what matters are the drivers, but ALL OF THEM (win or lose) need a world class car FIRST in order to be in the running to compete. Because, in a good car, even so-so divers are still going awful damn fast 8)

Back to this, any retard with a great dog can still crash and burn with his stupidity at the helm of greatness, but plenty of novices with great dogs (who have them in halfway decent shape) have beaten great dogmen with just "pretty good" dogs ...

Jack
Your right any bum with a top end car can race he can go fast but this is about winning. Top class race cars will never press the gas, shift, take a turn or enter a e.t with out a drive and I have seen many vw bugs with top drivers win on Saturday night at the drag strip against top end drag cars with shitty drivers because they knew what to do and how to do it from enter the e.t to watching the tree

[Officially Retired]

There's no doubt quality driving is where the cream of the crop is ... true ... but my point is, it only matters once we're talking about getting world class VEHICLES under those drivers, which depend on the manufacturer 8)

[canismajor]

definitely team effort, but it starts with quality stock. then good coaching, and discipline. i agree with c. j. i give props to the breeders. the rest of us would not be here if it wasnt for them. high quality breed.

[widerange]

I'm not saying that breeders out there are not needed or do not deserve credit I'm simply saying when it comes to winning the breeders derserves no credit outside of making the breeding that produced happen. Fords build car but they don't tune them or race them. But my main point is this the owners win/lose records reflex on him and only him the breeder you often only hear about the winning side of that record so they have less involved less input and less on the line over all which entitles them to less credit for winning

[canismajor]

you can lead a donkey to water but you cant make him drink.not the dogs fault :rotflmao:

[Nash]

I would try and get a few other dogs from that breeder. Thing is that giving credit does not take away from credits earned. I dont see the problem.

[CrazyRed]

If you dont want to give credit to the man that bred and gave or sold you that winning dog, what kind of person are you? Everybody knows that you raised a pup or bought a prospect and schooled or just hooked and won with him, but you did not breed him and chances are that you couldnt breed your own to begin with. Chances are that the winner you got might throw you a few more but if you go dog for dog with the breeder he probably beats you easily. STP was a great combine that could beat anybody in the world but as breeders, I'd say Boudreaux, Boyles, Hollingsworth, Tant, Victor etc outdone them in breedings.

[FrostyPaws]

Widerange, I'm not a breeder such as Jack or Evo. All of what I described is why exactly I've only sold a handful of dogs over the years. I decided to keep them myself, do them the correct way, and be satisfied with what I have from there on out. That way, there is no ruination of the dogs I breed.

Winning and losing reflects on the person showing the dog AND the breeder.

[Officially Retired]

When a the typical blowhard wins, he likes to take all the credit himself.
When the typical blowhard loses, he likes to put all the blame on the dog (and the breeder).

When a good dogman wins, he tends to thank the breeder for the good dog ... and the breeder tends to thank the good dogman for doing the dog right.

Funny how that works out ...

Jack

[SteelyDan]

Give each as much credit as they deserve...i think its simple as that. If the breeder acquired two dogs from someone else, bred them together and voila ... passed them on... id say they deserve very little credit. Same with a man who didn't put much work into his dog and won a match.

Some breeders are half assed where as others bring out the HAMMER :angry: and go through them dogs to create very consistent results. Why would you not give credit to the later?

Same with those who match some walk them around the neighborhood and others hit the books finding the best diet, supplements, and training techniques. Schooling their dogs out right and taking the time to find the optimum weight. Once again the later deserves credit also.

Those who match need breeders and those who breed need folks to match their dogs. Its a mutualistic symbiotic relationship, two dissimilar organisms living together in a relationship that benefits both parties.

[canismajor]

hard lesson learned . w/o contract on dog you cant force a donkey (owner) to follow instructions / warnings .

[widerange]

When a the typical blowhard wins, he likes to take all the credit himself.
When the typical blowhard loses, he likes to put all the blame on the dog (and the breeder).

When a good dogman wins, he tends to thank the breeder for the good dog ... and the breeder tends to thank the good dogman for doing the dog right
Funny how that works out ...

Jack

Jack I agree with you buddy too often people don't want to take blame but I'm glad that we agree a breeder should be thanked for good dogs and dogman for a good job done

[EWO]

I think it is a conglomeration that makes winners. The dog will only be as good as his genes say he will be. How his genes got where they are are a direct link to the breeder, or even the breeder that sold the dogs to the dog you got your winner from. (if that makes sense). A lot of times the great conditioner gets a lot of credit, and that is well deserved, but, the dog has to have the genetic predisposition to do some work to get there. The handler or the schooler can get a lot of credit. Making the call on what is enough for today and let's see about tomorrow is as important as anything else. If there was a hard fast rule that everybody adhered to without a deviation that said, No tooth will be placed in a dog til he is 24 months old. Percentages across the board would go up. Many a failed dog had the life forced upon him too early. And that, will trump the efforts of the most successful breeder, regardless of line or lineage. I doubt there is any right or wrong answers here. The best breeder that campaigns his own dogs and wins will quickly be dubbed with a negative reputation if no one else is winning with his dogs. If the best conditioner condition a sub par game plug to a couple of victories people will say I do not want to breed to the dog, I want to breed to the dog that made the dog. If a guy misses the weight and the dog comes up short it is the fault of the dog and the breeder because his recipe has worked before. It is easy to take the credit but it is so much easier to place the blame. EWO

[bolero]

Mmmmm, that's not giving enough credit to the breeder. That's like saying the race car driver is more important than being in a truly world class race car. The best driver is worth nothing without a good car to sit in. Thus THE AUTO MAKER is the most important, then the driver.

Sure, a lousy driver can crash a great car, but even a ho-hum driver can still compete and "go fast" if he's sitting in a truly-fast car to begin with ... while even the best driver in the world can't do shit sitting inside a Toyota Corolla :idea:

THE most important part of any race is a truly world class car ... from there, what matters are the drivers, but ALL OF THEM (win or lose) need a world class car FIRST in order to be in the running to compete. Because, in a good car, even so-so divers are still going awful damn fast 8)

Back to this, any retard with a great dog can still crash and burn with his stupidity at the helm of greatness, but plenty of novices with great dogs (who have them in halfway decent shape) have beaten great dogmen with just "pretty good" dogs ...

Jack

and the world class car is nothing without a world class racer. the breeder knows traits and knows when the dogs should start and those type of things but the competitor is the one who is raising that pup into a world class athlete he is the one who day and night feeds that dog waters that dog and conditions that dog. now to me a keep starts at eight weeks old not just eight weeks long so i give my self a little more credit because it is me and my dogs blood sweat and tears that are entering the battlefield the breeder gets credit for breeding a winner but not the win because he was not handling conditioning or giving the dog medical attention i do those things so i get the credit for the win and the breeder gets the credit for knowing how to put the genes together to create that winner

[Officially Retired]

Actually, a world class car can go awfully damned fast, regarless of who's driving :idea:

[Officially Retired]

It may take one world class drive to beat another, when both have world class race cars, but an average guy with a world class car will blow the doors off a world class driver sitting behind the wheel of a Toyota ;)

But when best cars meet the best cars, then absolutely the driver can make the difference :mrgreen:

[AGK]

1. Generally, if a breeder is a good one, he cares about the fate of his dogs.

2. If he is a good breeder, then he generally knows more about dogs than the average dogman, who can't seem to put his own two dogs together well enough to create his own winners.

3. In knowing more about dogs than the average dogman, the good breeder tries to give good advice to the people who buy his dogs.

4. Unfortunately, most of the people who buy dogs (because they're not at the same level) ignore the good advice given and try to do things "their own way" ... usually recklessly ... and usually with the miserable results the breeder could see were going to happen.

5. As a result of this, the good breeder will become extremely angry a) that his good advice was ignored and b) because his good dog is now fucked up ... while the substandard dogman, who didn't listen to the good advice and who fucked up, will then have to decide if a) he wants to admit his mistake, learn from it, and never do it again or b) he wants to defend his stupidity, fail to learn and grow, and continue to be a bottom-dweller in the sport.

That has been my continual observations after breeding winners all over the world, for over 23 years, and watching the difference in results between good customers and shitty ones.

Thanks for the question,

Jack


When a the typical blowhard wins, he likes to take all the credit himself.
When the typical blowhard loses, he likes to put all the blame on the dog (and the breeder).

When a good dogman wins, he tends to thank the breeder for the good dog ... and the breeder tends to thank the good dogman for doing the dog right.

Funny how that works out ...

Jack


Give each as much credit as they deserve...i think its simple as that. If the breeder acquired two dogs from someone else, bred them together and voila ... passed them on... id say they deserve very little credit. Same with a man who didn't put much work into his dog and won a match.

Some breeders are half assed where as others bring out the HAMMER :angry: and go through them dogs to create very consistent results. Why would you not give credit to the later?

Same with those who match some walk them around the neighborhood and others hit the books finding the best diet, supplements, and training techniques. Schooling their dogs out right and taking the time to find the optimum weight. Once again the later deserves credit also.

Those who match need breeders and those who breed need folks to match their dogs. Its a mutualistic symbiotic relationship, two dissimilar organisms living together in a relationship that benefits both parties.

I picked these 3 posts as they represent how I feel and in my opinion are 100% truths. Especially Jacks 2nd post I quoted...