View Full Version : I know it's no piece of cake but..... Build your own mill. Here's why....
.....after looking into purchasing a slatmill I found only three options which were The Dog Trotter, RP Millmaker, and Ghostrider. In respect to the hardwork & craftsmanship these guys put in there stuff I'd like to start off by saying all three are very good mills. Now personally, I won't buy any of them.
Starting with the Trotter, the gambler has crossed into a new market to sell his mills to, because of that his prices are simply too high for a working dogman. The new design is cool but unnecessary. Those plastic slats bow in the middle, you don't need a damn speedometer,due to laziness he switched to the aluminum frame which is is too light for my taste, he even gives slightly off specs over the phone in fear of a copycat. "Uh hello dipshit if I really wanted to copy you that bad I can simply buy the damn thing and reverse engineer it, you sell the plan every time you sell the mill genius.
On to the RP Millmaker, only three things keep me from this purchase, first of all the slats are too skinny and not beveled, second thing is some people receive them brand new but damaged from shipping, which brings up my last point, he's too far away to go through all that shit.
Ghostrider mills are solid but the guy is too lazy to take that extra step and put a bar on it for chain hook up, & his logistics are somewhat of a mystery to him! (Smh) quality comes first.
Now look at my argument, when walking or running a dog outdoors how many of you have a damn speedometer, heart rate monitor, or a fucking brake handy??? Bells and whistles only mean repairs to me. If you are fully focused on your dog and know how to work it on a good solid basic mill all you need is dedication and hard work. I guarantee the dog don't know how much you paid for it, don't care how many mph he runs. Basically His body language, pads, breathing, and the look in his eyes will tell you what you need to know.
If you could take gamblers willingness to research how to upgrade, ghost riders fair price, and RP's dedication to purpose you can have exactly what YOU want a fraction of the price and hassle.
I am currently building my own mill with the help of a welder for my steel frame, a cnc fabricator for my return wheels and track railing, a woodworker for my slats, and a powder coater incase I decide not to candy paint it. Carefully making sure everything was level I'm starting with a good and simple frame, after I get my parts from the fabricator I'll bolt it all on and if need be make the necessary adjustments to ensure proper function, after that's out the way then I will finish it off with some style all the while keeping it basic and free turning. If a fail, which I doubt will happen, then hey I tried. If I pull it off, then I will have saved a ton of money, learned something new and give my dogs a solid safe piece of equipment to use! I understand it's not a piece of cake but it ain't rocket science either!
PS. The Curious mill was my fav one of all but he's not around so....
erik440
04-25-2013, 04:15 AM
Pit pro has some for sale at reasonable prices
dont buy from rp millmaker
he is a liar, mills are not shipped on time, or will never be. his mills are put together by idiots, holes and parts can be crooked. also you mill could be damaged due to the lame box where its shipped in.
iv pursued a dogtrotter as well a couple of years ago. i didnt like it, it ren heavier then your average carpet mil.
AmberLamps
04-25-2013, 05:22 AM
I'm not sure what's happened to RPMillmaker as I keep hearing horror stories from people who've dealt with him. But having dealt with him myself and having friends that dealt with him, I can only say he was a pleasure to deal with, was always available to speak with and he supplied a good slat mill, although I didn't think much of the carpet mills I'v seen from him.
Maybe he made his money and stopped giving a damn ? I don't know .. but when we dealt with him when he first started out, he was a pleasure to deal with.
I'v not seen one but i'v heard the same as what R2L states in regards to the Gambler mills.
The HF-Mills (http://www.hfmills.nl/) in Holland are supposed to be fantastic mills, although he doesn't ship outside of the EU.. I'm waiting on a friend to receive his so I can have a hands on look before I purchase one for myself.
Well nothing is perfect, but when you have to toss the type of cash around they're asking one deserves to be picky. I will post vids & pics of my mill as soon as I am done with it.
I am a big fan of doing things yourself. The slat mill is not an easy project to take on. It can be done but it is one of those things where an 1/8th of an inch here and there is the difference between great success and total failure. With that said, it can be done. And I agree Randy's C.'s mills were as nice as they get. He was not the most dependable guy in the world but the mills were nice. I had one years back. EWO
The Curious mill was my favorite mill also, when done post some picts, keep us updated
projectx
05-16-2013, 06:09 PM
.....after looking into purchasing a slatmill I found only three options which were The Dog Trotter, RP Millmaker, and Ghostrider. In respect to the hardwork & craftsmanship these guys put in there stuff I'd like to start off by saying all three are very good mills. Now personally, I won't buy any of them.
Starting with the Trotter, the gambler has crossed into a new market to sell his mills to, because of that his prices are simply too high for a working dogman. The new design is cool but unnecessary. Those plastic slats bow in the middle, you don't need a damn speedometer,due to laziness he switched to the aluminum frame which is is too light for my taste, he even gives slightly off specs over the phone in fear of a copycat. "Uh hello dipshit if I really wanted to copy you that bad I can simply buy the damn thing and reverse engineer it, you sell the plan every time you sell the mill genius.
On to the RP Millmaker, only three things keep me from this purchase, first of all the slats are too skinny and not beveled, second thing is some people receive them brand new but damaged from shipping, which brings up my last point, he's too far away to go through all that shit.
Ghostrider mills are solid but the guy is too lazy to take that extra step and put a bar on it for chain hook up, & his logistics are somewhat of a mystery to him! (Smh) quality comes first.
Now look at my argument, when walking or running a dog outdoors how many of you have a damn speedometer, heart rate monitor, or a fucking brake handy??? Bells and whistles only mean repairs to me. If you are fully focused on your dog and know how to work it on a good solid basic mill all you need is dedication and hard work. I guarantee the dog don't know how much you paid for it, don't care how many mph he runs. Basically His body language, pads, breathing, and the look in his eyes will tell you what you need to know.
If you could take gamblers willingness to research how to upgrade, ghost riders fair price, and RP's dedication to purpose you can have exactly what YOU want a fraction of the price and hassle.
I am currently building my own mill with the help of a welder for my steel frame, a cnc fabricator for my return wheels and track railing, a woodworker for my slats, and a powder coater incase I decide not to candy paint it. Carefully making sure everything was level I'm starting with a good and simple frame, after I get my parts from the fabricator I'll bolt it all on and if need be make the necessary adjustments to ensure proper function, after that's out the way then I will finish it off with some style all the while keeping it basic and free turning. If a fail, which I doubt will happen, then hey I tried. If I pull it off, then I will have saved a ton of money, learned something new and give my dogs a solid safe piece of equipment to use! I understand it's not a piece of cake but it ain't rocket science either!
PS. The Curious mill was my fav one of all but he's not around so....
Hi wise , im will agre that dogtroterrs are expensive ,but thereis an old saying , ( you get what you pay for)and he does make nice mills , as does rp and hf mills etc , but you seem to have your backup with gambler for not telling you his exact specs , and why should he, thats his living ,and hes spent years and time developing his product ,and he knows that if someone buys one they can back engineer it , but then if they buy it they have a right to try ,like hf mills seem to have done with their latest aluminium mill which is not identical , but pretty damn near, so instead of asking on another thread if anyone has the specs for his mills , and then post this thread bashing him ,why dont you buy one ? and if you dont like them why are you asking for the specs on another thread?By the why your comment about the alu being to lightweight is bullcrap, their good and strong thats why hf mills copied gamblers design and use the same alu for the frame.
Another thing you say your building your own mill , but normally when anyone has built their own , they mean just that , they built it, you on the other hand have a steel welder to build the frame ,a cnc fabricator for your return wheels and track railing, a powder coater and a woodworker for your slats , wow your really handson arent you lol and then you go on to say that by doing this your gonna save a ton of money lol well any tradesman worth his salt should want paying , or are you mooching free labour for your mill , and if you are paying them as they deserve , how much do you think a mans time is worth? well theirs is worth as much as gamblers ,so stop crying about other well made mills that you want but dont want to pay for and just man up and do it and stop bitching about the others who make mils that people like enough for them to make a living from,otherwsie they wouldnt make them doooooooooooo, now whos a genius .
Ha haaa project x! You seem pretty upset about my lil post. The bulk of what I said about gamblers mills is just my personal preference which I'm entitled to, the rest is just plain fact. For marketing purposes He added lots of shit to the mill that's not needed. His craftsmanship is where you have me misunderstood as well, use common sense, if I didn't like it I wouldn't be pulling from it period. I simply put the millmakers on a spectrum with one end being a builder that does a lil too much and the other end a builder that doesn't do enough. And yes if I can save money and time on shipping and waiting I will do just that.
Gambler told me outta his own mouth the reason he switched to aluminum frames was because it was easier for him to do it versus welding. And the specs I asked him for were to an old model that he doesn't build anymore. And I'm pretty sure these people DO NOT make a living off of selling mills, they aren't as common as you may think although they've been around forever.
WHEN GUYS LIKE CORVINO BUILT MILLS, THEY BUILT THEM TO LAST "FOREVER". THEY DON'T BUILD THEM SO YOU HAVE TO KEEP CALLING THE BUILDER FOR REPLACEMENTS/PARTS.
There is a lot of personal satisfaction of doing something yourself. That may be worth more than the $$$ saved. I am like that on a lot of things. Post your finished project. I am interested. EWO
Milky
05-23-2013, 07:12 AM
I bought one from thailand, good price and a desent mill. Only problem I've had is that plastic slats(I could choose wooden or plastic) that have broked.
But otherwise it's a good mill and to a good price, and that included with the shipping-cost.
Yes I get that self satisfaction from doings things on my own as well, I will post a pic as soon as I'm done with it. Only drawback is the amount of time I have to actually get it done fast but hey it is what it is.
Kahlil
08-07-2013, 07:10 PM
If you have the money, just buy one. It will same you a lot of time and headache. Take it from someone who has built a few and knows its not a walk in the park.
I would post a couple of pics of some I've built out of scrap metal I had laying around but dont know how to do it, lol. good luck with your projects :hatsoff:
I'm almost done just need to do my belt and paint it, not much time to work on it tho. Buying one is cool,but I get a lil more fulfillment out of using something I put together. Ask someone to post it for you Khalil.
Agreed. I try to make as many things for myself as I can. Sometimes they work just as good, sometimes better and sometimes not so well. A lot of times it is pretty much just to see if I can. I saw a carpet mill in the early 80's and in the 90's decided to build one myself. The first ones looked like buck shot hit the ends of it because I tried multiple end roller set ups to get where I wanted. Each one got a little better til I was finally happy with what I had created. So I applaud your efforts in making your own. Interested in your end product. EWO
Eliman
08-10-2013, 07:53 PM
I can tell you now belt and slacks are the biggest pain in the ass getting them square will test your temper :lol: best of luck
RoughNeck
waccamaw
08-14-2013, 03:46 PM
All you need to square your belt is make 2 marks on a sheet of plywood ,chalk a line ,now screw one end of your belt to the line.then pull tight put a screw at the other end ,you can screw a 2x4 to the chalk line to butt the belt to.square off the first line and chalk a second line for the other belt .now you should be square ,now lay out your slats double check for squareness you will need spacers i between slats ..after you double check for squareness pre drill holes threw slats and belt counter sink in the slats .
Found a cabinet maker that has the ability to get them exactly how I want them as far as size and shape. Thanks for the advice WAC! What do you use to space them though I was thinking a dime or a washer
Eliman
08-16-2013, 10:09 PM
Thats nice craftsmanship Kahlil
Eliman
08-16-2013, 10:16 PM
Here is the first mill i built :embarrassed: from scratch nothing to look at but purs like a kitten. This photo i used cheap material until i fine tuned every measurment so i wouldn't spend a fortune on my fuck ups. :lol: Next time i will just buy a mill.
RoughNeck
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/428605.jpg
DLDTommy
08-27-2013, 11:37 AM
How do you get ahold of one? Never seen one advertised anywhere but hear folks talkin about them all the damn time
Pit pro has some for sale at reasonable prices
gabbagabbahey
08-27-2013, 02:51 PM
I had an RP mill a few yr ago & although it looked & ran ok,i was not overly impressed. Seen another,which was not as clever as mine,with different wheels. I remember he had a forum & there was a few complaints. One complaint of not recieving the mill led to RP scanning the shipping reciept & putting the picture up on the forum.......along with the mans name & address !!
Am i right in thinking R Lemms family build mills to the same specs as he did ?
There was also a mill made in Ireland a few yr ago which i was impressed with,bit he stopped making them.
Maybe a good,solid second hand mill would be the way to go,at an affordable price.
Only thing left is the belt, springs, paint, and a lil chain.
Milky
10-27-2013, 09:48 AM
Looks good, Wise
Thanks milky, just wish had more time to spend finishing it ya know, it's always like...a lil here...a lil there... Slowly but surely. Not lucky enough to have the set up and tools to bang it out!
What size are the roller blade wheels?
The Old Timer.
11-10-2013, 04:14 AM
wise, your mill looks very nice, .
The Old Timer.
11-10-2013, 07:16 AM
but I will add that the cross bar that holds the chain looks a bit to near the end / front of mill, its always best to put a " tack weld " in place on each corner of the tuber steel when your making or doing your first project. a few of my mills the cross bar is near the center, be nice when its finished.
Thanks old timer, I moved it towards the back of my mill for this first one since I like to bait em with the flirt and other stuff sometimes they get wild! My next design has it sitting more towards the middle so I will see what's what but thanks for the feedback always appreciated.
Wise, I'm in the middle of redoing a mill right now. Can you share some details about your main wheels setup? Also, do you mind sharing the cost of you inline skate wheels and bearings (and where you got them)?
Thanks.
Milo
Man I've been on pause with the project just been too busy to finish but my main wheels are just split go kart wheels mounted on a piece of cold rolled round with locking collars, the inline and bearings set up you can find a deal on Amazon.com it's all personal preference though. Good luck with it man
Tri-Star aluminum wheels part # 1183 or #1184. Split wheel that uses a 5/8 bearing. App. $35 a piece.
For the inline wheels or skate wheels the best place is ebay or Amazon. Just scroll thru. You can find sets of 50 wheels for less than a $1 a piece. Discounted/blemished/discontinued. 608 bearings the same.
Best of luck. EWO
Wise, I'm in the middle of redoing a mill right now. Can you share some details about your main wheels setup? Also, do you mind sharing the cost of you inline skate wheels and bearings (and where you got them)?
Thanks.
Milo
Thank you very much.
Tri-Star aluminum wheels part # 1183 or #1184. Split wheel that uses a 5/8 bearing. App. $35 a piece.
For the inline wheels or skate wheels the best place is ebay or Amazon. Just scroll thru. You can find sets of 50 wheels for less than a $1 a piece. Discounted/blemished/discontinued. 608 bearings the same.
Best of luck. EWO
rodburner
02-05-2014, 09:42 PM
EWO IS RITE ON THE BEARINGS FOR SHORE! I JUST GOT 100 608RS FOR 35 .00 BUT I STILL LIKE MY 10'' RUBBER WHEELS LIKE THE RED RIVER CURLY'S.
True, just before Christmas I bought 100 608RS bearings for $23 and no shipping. Sometimes they go fast and sometimes they hang around for a few days. The inline/skate wheels the same. EWO
I actually was two wheels short so I went to this local skating rink and the guy had all kinds of used bearings and wheels for the low!
easyboss
11-02-2014, 09:12 AM
I am a big fan of doing things yourself. The slat mill is not an easy project to take on. It can be done but it is one of those things where an 1/8th of an inch here and there is the difference between great success and total failure. With that said, it can be done. And I agree Randy's C.'s mills were as nice as they get. He was not the most dependable guy in the world but the mills were nice. I had one years back. EWO
The truth about millmakers can be a bit of an eye opener. The reality is this though. The only ORIGINAL millmakers that were true to the millmaking game were RRC and Gambler and curious. Two of the best known ones. The follow ups from these either bought and copied their entire mills or copied substantial parts of it. In todays climate, with all these high tech cnc shops and plasma cad type engineering outfits, making a mill for a fraction of the price isnt rocket science. Its whether you are willing to invest the time of foreshight into developing a mill.
easyboss
11-02-2014, 09:21 AM
I'm almost done just need to do my belt and paint it, not much time to work on it tho. Buying one is cool,but I get a lil more fulfillment out of using something I put together. Ask someone to post it for you Khalil.
Having spoken to ciruos many years ago, just before he retired and went into bike building, he ran down a whole load of info on the phone from overseas. Top guy and a true gentleman. The biggest and most important factor to making a slat mill, according to him, was the frame and belt, and how both must be aligned perfectly in order for a mill to run true. So belts attached to the slats must be in perpendicular fashion, and the mill must be built straight. tHAT WAS HIS ADVICE.
FrostyPaws
11-03-2014, 04:58 PM
EB, did you build the mill that's your avatar picture?
The advice is top notch but the guy was not. Most definitely not a true gentlemen. His mills were top of the line, as nice as any ever made. Just do not pay him upfront. Do not pay him half now and half at pick up. He was not near as accessible once he had the money.
With that said, he kept his dogs in A-1 condition. He would eat bologna sandwiches and potted meat all week in order to buy better dog food or medicinals for his dogs. That is top notch.
He struggled with upfront monies and delivery dates. EWO
Having spoken to ciruos many years ago, just before he retired and went into bike building, he ran down a whole load of info on the phone from overseas. Top guy and a true gentleman. The biggest and most important factor to making a slat mill, according to him, was the frame and belt, and how both must be aligned perfectly in order for a mill to run true. So belts attached to the slats must be in perpendicular fashion, and the mill must be built straight. tHAT WAS HIS ADVICE.
easyboss
11-04-2014, 10:48 AM
EB, did you build the mill that's your avatar picture?
No frosty - these are mills designed by HF mills Netherlands. Top notch. Im a dealer for these mills but i dont build them. www.hfmills.nl
Baler belt is a little thick. It will last forever but sort of stiff over the end wheels.
I bought my oak material from a local pallet company. I cut them and planed them to size. Lowe's and Home Depot sell it but it is as high as all get out. EWO
Post a pic of your belt material if you will. I built mine 1st time with a strap type material and it worked very well. Over time the holes stretched a little and then the tracking got off. It was always in need of adjustment. I bought a one ply PVC type belt got it put together and it is way stiff.
Would like to see a side view or a part number for a material that works. EWO
Good approach and good luck man. I used bailer belt myself, it is heavy and durable lil stiff to begin with but it'll be fine, I found a local cabinet maker and he made slats for a decent price.
Good job. I'm an "as long as it works, as long as it serves the purpose" type myself. Good job.
Once you have it up and running you can always adjust and make improvements. The first carpet mill frame I made had a ton of 'adjustments' and 'improvements' to axle diameter and axle/roller location. I drilled and re-drilled so many holes the end of the mill looked like I hit it with buckshot. It was a mess. But it got better and better.
The oak slats may be heavy but you can always run them thru a table saw and then plane them to a thinner/lighter slat. Since it is working I would do that before I went to a bigger wheel.
Either way, good job. I always like 'doing it myself' vs. spending a boat load of cash. EWO
MOSES
05-31-2015, 10:10 AM
I used to help Randy out from time to time when I came to the yard. The key items to insure that the mill tracks true are as follows:
1. The frame MUST be square, he used a table jig
2. I think he used 1.5” tubing. If you are going to use aluminum I would step up to 2” due to the weight not the tensile strength of the metal
3. The slats and the belt are very often over looked. I think he was using 2.25 and I don’t remember what they were in thickness. What I can assure you is that if the slat are too small or to large you will get slat rock.
4. The belt I honestly don’t remember anything other than he used the clipper laces and had them shipped to him.
5. The roller bed should be attached to the frame in a manner that minimizes the transfer of vibration to the vertical support members of the frame. Randy used 4 stud point with rubber washers located on the horizontal supports of the frame.
6. The main wheels are adjusted just like a motorcycle rear wheel he used split hub 6” wheels
7. Roller bed wheels and all bearings are about how much you want to spend. Not that the distance between wheels can not be greater peak to peak than the slat. So if you are using wheels that are roughly 2” this works well with a 2.25” slat.
All in all it is not hard to do at all, but you are looking at $500-$600 or close in parts for a budget build, minus tools and your time. Is it worth it, depends on how much time and or money you have. Randy built his first mill because he needed it to work Ranger, not because he felt like making mills. It honestly was something that Tom kinda pointed for him to be able to make a few bucks ontop of the dogs.
Anyway, I can provide a few sketches of any areas where you have issues, I don’t have the time to make CADD drawings right now. If people are really looking for more details PM me and I’ll honestly give some thought to pulling together a set of DIY plans and parts. I hope this helps!
YIS
MOSES
05-31-2015, 10:19 AM
Moving up to 10” main wheels will not increase the rotation of the belt, I agree that it’s the easiest solution that comes to mind. However, you might want to reduce the thickness of the slats or the belt to reduce the weight.
Randy C? If so he made some nice mills. Top of the line. He lived just down the road from here. I pass the spot every day to and from work.
Great mills. Great craftsmanship. A skilled guy no doubt. It just turned out to be a bad idea to send the money first, that always seemed to make the phone not work. But that does not take away from the quality of the build. EWO
MOSES
06-01-2015, 01:36 PM
LOL...Yea that's Randy. It sucks that he has to own the turn around on the product, but he was always backed up. That was why I spent the time helping when I could, he could use the hand and I needed information. He never had an issue telling me whatever I wanted to know, it was just a matter of asking the proper questions, it didn't matter if it was the dogs or the mills. He was in ruff physical shape and was always fighting with the VA over his knees, a damn shame! I miss my trips to Franklin, those were the good old days.
I remember when I first met him (lord), you can never judge a book by it's cover. He ended up being a stand up dude that took a great deal of pride in his work and the dogs.
Those mills were badass....lucky to get hands on Moses. :)
MOSES
06-02-2015, 12:36 AM
Yea the mills were kool, but was an open exchange of information because I had something to offer. It was the hounds, Tom was putting bulldogs on the ground at the time. It was night and day between his place and when the dogs were with Randy. I loved that little Lefty dog he had of Tom's who produced petty well for him. Johnny Boy would bite the shit out of you if you could get him out the house but produced solid dogs and Ranger never put one on the gound half his size. Randy tought me the value of a good bitch and what she would do for your yard.
We tried to breed to lefty toward the end but he couldn't get it up anymore. When Randy skipped and the freak girl didn't pay the rent we tried to buy the spot to build some self storage units. She left the place in shambles. The registration papers were left out with a dog in the house for a number of days (by the countless piles and the god awful smell). The dogs destroyed the papers. We saw half the papers for Ranger and a piece of Lefty's. It was a mess.
If you rode by and looked up on the hill you would never expect the quality of the dogs nor the quality in the mills from what one could see. That is most definitely a book that can't be judged by its cover. EWO
MOSES
06-02-2015, 07:32 AM
EWO - That's too bad, he really punted all together...damn shame. I hated the snakes, so I had to give him some space. THAT was out of control! He knew he had a snow balls chance in HELL getting me back in that house after he started bringing in those snakes. The crazy thing was, money from breeding snakes was twice what he made on the dogs and the mills together minus the effort (so he said).
Lefty produced smart, slick, head hunters and was an honest bulldog. All of the fuss around him pulling up made since after you saw how Tom kept ALL of the dogs, but it really hurt him as a stud. I think it took seeing the dogs that Randy bred off him for people to be willing to back up to him. I think he ended up making ROM, but it could have been done a lot faster IMO, he was a very good dog. A lot of kennels, comp was very stiff, space was tight and you had your pick of flavors with ALL kinds off VERY good dogs well bred dogs.
Very true. We saw a couple dogs off him and that is why we tried to breed to him. The first half of his life was incredibly hard. He had four wins credited to him and 1 loss where it was said he quit. Some say he did, some say he didn't. But most will say he had every right to quit as his life was not conducive to high level competition.
Same deal with me for the snakes. I had a buddy who was into the snakes and he and Randy hit it off really well. He was like, "I just got my Eastern Brown" or ""My cobra is finally starting to spit" or "The python eats a small pig". Although the addition built onto the trailer was world class carpentry, it did look like the end of the trailer would break off in any decent gust of wind. He even had a Nile Crocodile. And I also heard him say the snakes paid for the dogs.
I never made it closer than Lefty's chain spot to the trailer. Once he started the snake talk I was as close as I needed to be. One time I pulled up to check on the mill I was paying for and he came out with some sort of snake wrapped all around him. It was his way of saying he did not have it and I took the hint and backed to the road before he ever got close.
Weird dude. Excellent craftsman. EWO
MOSES
06-02-2015, 07:14 PM
Lefty stopped for sure, he was in piss poor shape and I think he had worms really bad. Hell, Tom wasn't even putting any real work into the dogs and showing them staright off the chain. I guess it was easy to get lazy with dogs like Buckus just spitting out pups out back, now keep in mind Tom had other dogs that were not Buckus breed dogs that were CH on his yard, i.e. Spice. It was crazy, This guy had more CH(s) out in just nastyness than most people have in just winners period. If they were winning at all and off Tom's yard it was a BULLDOG for REAL! I honestly wasn’t prepared to see that level of neglect, that was hard living for any dog.
I have heard the stories but never met him or saw the conditions so that is as much as I could say about that. On the other hand, Randy did a really nice job with his dogs. They were well cared for, well fed and the yard/kennels looked better than his living quarters. The first and only time I went in it was a wreck. I stood in the doorway and thought one would really have to go out of his way to get this bad. I looked over on the table and it was an aquarium with a snake and he noticed it scared the crap out of me. He told me the name but I forget. He said it was one of the deadliest snakes in the world, third or fourth deadliest. It came from somewhere in Africa. He then goes into explaining his protocol if he were to be bitten because the snakes are here illegally with no anti-venom. The closest hospital would struggle with an allergic reaction to a bee-sting and to own one of the deadlier snakes in the world. My first trip in his doorway, and at the same time my last.
We saw littermates from Lefty and Daisy go. I think Daisy was another of Tom's Buck/Chinaman/Panther bred females. We tried to breed to him but he was done by then. Almost like every other vertebrae was fused together. He could barely get around. He was old by age but much older than his age suggested. I tried to buy a few of the younger dogs but he would not part with them.
From the outside looking in it was a rinky dink old single wide. Inside one half was the nicest mills built, maybe the nicest ever. On the other half were some of the deadliest, illegally owned snakes in the world. He was a good dogman I thought. He did great by his dogs to the point of sacrificing on himself. EWO
MOSES
06-03-2015, 08:18 AM
LMFAO... I see you were listening...LMFAO! Hell yea that kat had a Gaboon Viper, true story! Clearly you were as traumatized as I was; he made fun of me all the time. That dude wasn’t scared of shit! I used to promise him if I got bit by ANYTHING he was feeding, I would put them all down and set that bitch on fire.
The first time I met him and he come down to open the gate, I put the hammer on the seat. I'll be honest he had me thinking about plan B, he thought it was funny. You know I had to ask him what was going on with the swastikas! I have been a lot of places and seen a lot of things, but that kat had me on tilt for a hot second, I just wasn't able to connect the dots.
It was always good to see him and I never left without having taken something away from the time I spent with him.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane EWO; these curs made us the most unlikely of friends, go figure. I really do apologize for hijacking the post, things just took a hard right.
I enjoyed the hard right lol
My apologies for hijacking the treadmill thread as well.
It was a long time ago. I pass that spot a couple three times per week in my commute. It is a lot different now. It was not like it was a hundred years ago but I could not imagine tying out 20-30 bulldogs along side a major US highway like that. Then to think it was some of the deadliest snakes in the world were inside that little trailer. We use to say one storm could knock down a tree and they would all be free. Can you imagine the panic if the public were to find out? The gaboon Viper is on the loose, along with a Cobra and also keep a look out for a four foot Nile Crocodile. It would have been a mess.
Back t the mills. I know a guy who has one from maybe 95-96-97 time frame. Still works today as well as it did back then. We replaced a couple of the slats but other than that, just as it was sold. Tons of dogs have been worked on the mill. Still kicking.
And back to the hijack part- the swastikas kind of thru me as well. He had some flags hanging around with all kinds of hate and white power stuff. Like I said he was a weird dude, an excellent craftsman, but a weird dude nonetheless. EWO
MOSES
06-03-2015, 11:50 AM
LOL...This is all funny now, but it was OUT OF CONTROL! He was bulldogs Steve Irwin, so unless you saw him put them into a suitcase, assume NC has some new residents.
As far as the mills, I wonder if 95-97 are stage 1 mills. I have no idea what changed, I only worked with him on the stage 3 mills. They should last a lifetime, the fact that he replaced the a few slats says a whole lot about the use. I think he worked on tanks when he was in the service, for real. That is where the idea for his mill came from, but I have never heard of anyone being unhappy with one. He wouldn't send one out the door if it wasn't the same as the last, void of compromise. When other builders were trying to figure out how to cut corners with cheaper materials, we were talking about different gauge tubing to make them more ridged and removing cross members. He even planned, beveled, and finished the slats himself. I'll go as far as to say, the only thing that was a direct bold on were to roller bed wheels and the belts. People would leave the mills out like they were furniture or works of art.
I'm going to guess they were between Stage I or Stage II. The one I was paying for was a Stage III. They were as nice as anything out there. I would be willing to bet one of his mills from the late 90's would stand up against anything being made now. He was definitely ahead of his time.
The quality was beyond reproach. That cat could flat lay down a bead too. His welds were superb. He was quite the craftsman. He had tremendous skill. Far superior to mine.
As far as the snakes go, I felt like he was a real nut job. To have something that deadly is beyond me, but to each his own.
His mills were a work of art. EWO
On the engineering side the lighter slats will help. Going from oak to pine will make them lighter but planing them to a lesser thickness is a better option. Going from a 6" wheel to an 8" wheel will not be that much difference other than lengthening the belt to match the extra surface area of the larger wheel. The right length belt matched to the right diameter wheel is really the same thing.
This is some Randy C. Stage III info he gave me a number of years ago. Take a permanent marker and mark the slat as soon as it touches the end roller. Make a mark on the wheel. Slowly roll the belt and mark the wheel just when the slat comes away from the wheel. If the belt comes off the wheel more than half way, wraps, the belt is too short. Add a slat or so. The slat should start to make the turn on the wheel when it comes off. If it drops off the end of the wheel and does not start to make the turn it will have to make a hard 90 degree turn when it goes back over the other wheel, which is drag. Remove a slat. The smaller the slat the easier it is to make this fine tuning adjustment. 2.5" would be a big increase or decrease depending on the length needed.
Or like Randy said, do what everyone else does. Find someone else's mill that is working, measure it from axle to axle, count their slats and allow for the slat spacing and all the math is done for you.
Best of luck. I enjoy the build as much as seeing the end product working a dog. Good luck. EWO
In this drawing the belt is too short for the particular combination of axle to axle length and the diameter of the end wheel. This is called wrap and provides a lot of friction/drag. Using your drawing if the belt comes off Point A on the top and separates from the wheel on the second Point A (middle of the wheel) that will be just about a 90 degree turn. That is very little friction and would be perfect except it then has to make another 90 degree turn to get back on top of the other wheel to get back to the running surface. That second 90 degree turn will be a lot drag and the mill will not be as smooth as it should. On the back end there will be some hop as it comes to the top of the mill. Almost like a ramp.
Ideally, counting from the top of your drawing the belt should leave the wheel around the 7th arrow. That will be the using slightly less than half the wheel on both ends. That is ball park.
If there is a mill you have access too measure from axel to axle, check the diameter of the end wheels, measure the belt length, and/or count the slats taking into account the spacing. Then build from there. With the really nice mills all these measurements are really close. The frames, the slat materials, the belt material and the bed wheels bring uniqueness to the mill from the individual builder. EWO
Good luck. I look forward to seeing it. I will try to do the same. EWO
prairiedog
10-25-2015, 09:28 AM
Were you successful in building your mill?
CandB
10-31-2015, 02:42 PM
The frames on the Dog Trotter mills are made from 80/20 extruded aluminum. I've worked with it for years, it's meant for industrial use. A lot of secondary equipment in factories has their frames made out of 80/20. It's EXTREMELY STRONG, DURABLE, and light weight. If GM, Ford, Chrysler and a million other factories use it for their machines then why shouldn't someone making mills? Good luck making your own mill. It's a slippery slope offering a critique on something that you've already stated you cannot afford. Some people do weird things when involved with these dogs. Example, spend $1000 or $1500 on a puppy then buy a HUGE naval ship anchor chain to secure them but use a bullsnap at the end, or a CHOKER COLLAR! Set aside a couple hundred bucks a month and guess what? By the time the puppy is old enough to use the mill, you'll have enough saved to buy a high quality, proven, trusted mill. As far as the Trotters "plastic slats" bowing in the middle? Nothing could be further from the truth. Last time I talked to Bob they were made out of Delrin. That is some of the toughest, most durable stuff on Earth and at the thickness he uses you could drive a car over it and it wouldn't bow in the middle. I agree they are pricey, but they're still selling, so why should he lower the price? I heard Red River Curley is back in business? I guess Greg's daughter and husband are following his old plans. At around $1000 that ain't bad. Good luck with your mill, I hope it works out for you, candy paint and all. But use it cautiously at first, your design and fabrication aren't proven like the ones you mentioned. As with any tool if used improperly or it's mechanically bad you can cause a plethora of damage to yourself and your prized animal.
Doc Ellis
11-01-2015, 10:36 AM
Were you successful in building your mill?
did you finish yours?
prairiedog
11-02-2015, 04:41 AM
did you finish yours?
Yeah, what ya think Doc?
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2eamihh.jpg
Doc Ellis
11-02-2015, 05:09 AM
Nice Prariedog! does it work as well as it looks?
prairiedog
11-02-2015, 07:30 PM
Nice Prariedog! does it work as well as it looks?
Works not too bad I guess. I like a more free spinning mill, but it works fine. I'm going to build a new belt with different material, narrower/thinner slats, and lighter hardware. I'm also gong to get some custom brackets made for the main wheels to increase adjustability. Regards.
mrtsi
11-02-2015, 11:49 PM
Nice mill Prairie. What material did you use for the frame and is it sturdy?
prairiedog
11-03-2015, 07:39 PM
Aluminum, and yes it's sturdy.
barber
12-05-2015, 05:36 PM
Yeah, what ya think Doc?
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2eamihh.jpgi have used many belting materials the best imo is baler belt, it takes about 10 keeps for mill to brake in,if the mill travels from a hand push, thats sufficient considering the weight of the dog and 4 legs out put
Milehighmisfit
02-19-2016, 09:51 AM
Nice work Buck Gator, You should put that 'ol Angus on there and see if it really will support a rhino lol! I will try to get a vid. posted of little Charlotte tearing up the mill :) Thanks again for the wonderful mill!
boottopdogger
02-27-2016, 03:07 AM
Won't let me view these .....maybe you can pm me the layout...thanks in advance
Milehighmisfit
03-07-2016, 01:54 PM
The Adobe file worked for me. Nice work Buckgator. I look forward to seeing the latest version in person 8)
BLADE
03-19-2016, 07:18 AM
I recently took on building my first slat mill. It turned out pretty good in my opinion and my dogs run it very well with no issues thus far. I'd like to post pictures of it but I haven't figured out how to do it yet.
BLADE
03-22-2016, 06:22 PM
Thanks.
BLADE
03-22-2016, 06:23 PM
Thanks.
The picture came up crooked but it worked. I appreciate the help Gator!
BLADE
03-24-2016, 09:00 AM
Thanks Buckgator! I used select pine from Home Depot, I hand picked my pieces to get the best ones. Select pine is a nice wood in comparison to a lot of the other choices. Lol, if I would have known the mill was gonna work as well as it does I would have spent the extra money and bought oak. I routed the edges and put a 1/8" spacing between my slats. I used 1 15/16" steel casters for my bed rollers. Anyway, it works good but as far as building another one goes.. It will be later on, I have a jam up turn table design figured out so that will be the next project on the to do list.
BLADE
03-24-2016, 08:10 PM
Nice! The pine will probably only last 20yrs LOL! All Good!! Keep me posted on the turn table that sounds like fun.
Will do!
Redline Kennels
03-24-2016, 11:58 PM
I have an HF Mill from Spain and it is top notch. Don't know much about the mill maker but his name is on the mill. I bought it from a buddy of mine here in NC local. Whoever got this mill here to the US I am sure paid a fortune but it is here and I now own it for $450
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12645176_1520849688211665_103546897464551223_n.jpg ?oh=bf0e720ad078a75092247f1c57b03a8a&oe=578A5088
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/10644827_1536376339992333_8513352911382204332_n.jp g?oh=51c2340da74c0725fee1a1be86c3c32e&oe=5780B712
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12472764_1536376353325665_2079418055610963077_n.jp g?oh=eb58b99f0e10b48d17b93dac41c2df31&oe=5799297E
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12718060_1536376393325661_4289378629665307501_n.jp g?oh=21bf388b5b60c7021cb8608913447438&oe=57962CB3
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1917519_1536376406658993_6758215241525279812_n.jpg ?oh=ba2dd39a7d7bdfa75b02445cd0628b1f&oe=577B5A81
LivewireT
03-26-2016, 01:53 PM
this is my second build it's getting easier and easier and cheaper too
BLADE
03-28-2016, 10:11 AM
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is where I got my 1 15/16" conveyer wheels. This company has good prices and lots of options.
http://www.kornylak.com/