Balkan Rules vs Cajun Rules

[R2L]

For the people that didn't know. According the balkan rules the handler's can only handle their dogs when both dogs are out of hold for 3 seconds and not on own initiative. The referee will count to 3 and at 3 both have to handle their dogs and if connected separate asap.

There is a thread on a Russian board for dogman about this subject. A poll gives 51 votes for Balkan rules and only 7 for orginal Cajun rules. Now because most of the people on that board already go by that rules or come from the Balkan, i would like to see what people think about it here.

[R2L]

over 30 views 2 vote.
i think there's plenty of experience on this board to enter a (anonymous) vote.

[CYJ]

The Cajun rules do allow a longer out of holds time. But most dog men sat down and agreed on the minute details. One option was keeping dogs head in corner or letting dog be faced, but kept behind the line. Did not matter to me, preferred to let dog be faced out. To allow more breathing space without burning out the dog's much needed energy. When the handler has to struggle with dog to keep head and body in corner. Most would take the dog head into the corner to sponge ect. Then turn it around and set the feet.

One had the option of 60 to 30 seconds on out of holds count. Most went with a 30 second time limit. 3 seconds is to fast, you could have the bottom dog and it just needs a little wind break. Time to make a scratch was normally 10 seconds. Some wanted 15. Some wanted the dog to mouth, others went with skin contact. the options were there.

Why I like the Cajun rules over all. Was not all in the book was written in stone, the options were there to be used. Had one of the booklets, believe Sparks printed and sold them. Studied booklet real good and had it with me if I did any refereeing.

[R2L]

CYJ, do you realize i mean 3 sec out of hold when fighting?

[CYJ]

That would be very crazy in deed. They would be snatching dogs left and right. Two dogs standing up and both just quit going at it each other for three seconds. Would make me start wondering if both dogs were fixing to up and quit. I would be the last one to want to handle my dog. Would let the other guy have the first grab and first scratch. LOL

Unless totally blown out and on bottom or in shock. I would want mine with something in it's mouth at all times. LOL Hope I have understood you correctly. Cheers

[SteelyDan]

I assume you mean after the first turn is made R2L?

I dont really see the point of waiting 3 seconds to make a handle. When the scratching gets started, keep it going. Handling dogs takes finesse and knowing when not to handle does too.

You lost me with.... The ref will count to 3 and then they handle, if connected they must separate immediately. If they are connected... they arent exactly out of holds.

[R2L]

Exactly CYJ

Unless totally blown out and on bottom or in shock. I would want mine with something in it's mouth at all times.
Yea.... you can imagine allot of good dogs die under that rules too, because there simply is no chance of making one scratch.

Sorry if i wasn't clear SteelyDan. If one of them would grab the other after the count of 3, they will have be separated asap.

[EWO]

Cajun rules. I think every dog has the right to quit and should be given the opportunity to do so. The Cajun rules and the times involved make scratching paramount. I have seen it both ways as well CYJ, I have had the fight crazy freak in the corner who I felt like was burning up all he had while facing the corner trying to get back over there. It is a double standard, LOL, I want you to face the corner but I want to face across for less energy being burned. We can't have it all. EWO

[Officially Retired]

I think the Cajun Rules are better, because it allows the fight to be over with much quicker.

If you have to wait for BOTH dogs to sit there, out of holds, for 3 seconds, then you either have 2 short-winded, cur pieces-of-shit on your hands ... OR (if you're dealing with 2 game, long-winded dogs, in good shape, and it gets to this point) ... then the contest has gone on-and-on so long to be at the point where both dogs are done. Much harder to save dogs the deeper into the deal you go :idea:

With the Cajun Rules, if I can get a handle the moment I see an opportunity, then I can get the scratching started *much* sooner ... which thereby allows me to find out which dog will quit *much* sooner ... which in turn thereby allows me to get the contest over with much sooner ... and ultimately allows me to get less holes, less abuse, and less utter fatigue and dehydration on the better dog by the time it's over. You see, to me, it's about finding out which is the gamer dog ASAP, so you can save him.

Because, when you're dealing with 2 game dogs, in good shape, the longer you make the out of holds count be (and especially requiring it on both dogs), the longer you force the contest to go ... thereby running greater risk of killing both dogs.

The only reason to prolong the out-of-holds is if you're dealing with short-winded, cur pieces of shit ... and you want to force them to keep fighting (so you have something to do on a Saturday night). If that's what the deal is, then by all means make the out of holds count as long as possible, and try NOT to get any scratching done ... so you can prolong the point where someone has to count to 10.

Jack

[EWO]

Well said Jack.

[CYJ]

Ditto Jack, I wanted a Ten second scratch and a 10 second out of holds count. Whether losing or winning it should be the best dog to win. I never cared for those dragged out affairs. Sometimes it was because some one bet more money than they could afford to lose. Loved the money more than the dog or their pride got in the way.

Ozzie Steven's story on Homer is a good example of not loaning out a very good dog to some one else. When you are a good conditioner yourself and the stakes were set to high. Ozzie told Sonny, Matt, and self one night in a motel room all about it. You could hear the hurt in his voice from losing Homer. To make matters even worse not many days after that conversation Ozzie's wife died. Two hard blows to a very good dog man.

[gotap_d]

I think there are three aspects where you can win or lose a dog show and those are imo conditioning(schooling, upbringing and actual keep) handling, and the dog. What the balkin rules do is remove one of those aspects. One guy who agreed with those rules said it eliminates mishandles. Why eliminate mishandles? If someone keeps mishandling the ref needs to foul his ass out. If you know how to make good handles you will always favor cajun rules. If i have a dog of less caliber than yours and i also have a keep that isnt as good as yours but you have a rookie in the box handling and he cant get the scratch off of him while his dog is doing good and my hounds slowly comes to the top by the time he finally does get a handle his dog may not want to come anymore.

[R2L]

Jack you nailed it.

Gotap, you are right. That was one of their reasons. More and more i get the feeling their rules was changed because there was to many dirty games being played and no good referee to give a foul. On the other hand, their referee now has to count till 3. U can count to 3 in 2 seconds or 5 seconds......
I heard some other reasons like " handling gives to much rest for the dog". And one guy said "under cajun rules the better handler can win and not the better dog, under balkan rules the best dog always wins"

These reasons are coming from professional dogman. Do i even need to comment them?

[dpitbull]

Cajun rules. I think every dog has the right to quit and should be given the opportunity to do so. The Cajun rules and the times involved make scratching paramount. I have seen it both ways as well CYJ, I have had the fight crazy freak in the corner who I felt like was burning up all he had while facing the corner trying to get back over there. It is a double standard, LOL, I want you to face the corner but I want to face across for less energy being burned. We can't have it all. EWO

Great post

[CrazyRed]

Have a question about this because me a buddy and ol timer have been arguing over this for years now, but to my understand when I read the rules in reference to the 10 seconds to scratch, the dog has 10 seconds to get over there, if he is standing still not trying the referee should declare that dog the loser. They are to begin scratching on the release and have 10 to get over. If they stand their thinking for the first 5 seconds or so they should be declared the loser. Did anybody else read and believe that way to be true?

[gotap_d]

I have never heard of any such rule that a dog has to begin his scratch immediately or within the first 5 seconds. Neither do i agree with that if it is an actual rule. As long as they beat the count(whatever it may be) they cant be declared the loser. Some may have their vision blurred if it takes a few seconds to make a move so be it. Jmo.

[Officially Retired]

Have a question about this because me a buddy and ol timer have been arguing over this for years now, but to my understand when I read the rules in reference to the 10 seconds to scratch, the dog has 10 seconds to get over there, if he is standing still not trying the referee should declare that dog the loser. They are to begin scratching on the release and have 10 to get over. If they stand their thinking for the first 5 seconds or so they should be declared the loser. Did anybody else read and believe that way to be true?


Great point!

I was going to mention this as well, but never got around to it. Pinky & The Brain had a great article on this (can't find a copy), where almost the entire bulldog community has it wrong as to how they apply the 10-count on scratching.

As you said, a dog doesn't have 10 seconds to stand there, suckin air, only to decide at "7" he's going to go. That is NOT what is meant by 10 seconds! The dog must BEGIN AT ONCE to go over there ... and he has 10 seconds to crawl, flop, roll, or do whatever he can do to get there ... but IF HE STOPS (even for a second) he is automatically declared the loser. Which means any dog that takes a 1-count, at the scratchline, or even while in the process of going ... LOSES.

A dog must be continuously trying to get over there, and if for even 1 second he stands, then it's GAME OVER :idea:

The truth is, 99% of all dogmen do NOT read the Cajun Rules properly ... which means they do NOT follow the Cajun Rules correctly ...

However, for people who read the rules properly, the can see that entire point of the Cajun Rules is to get the contest over with as quickly as possible, ending things at the first hesitation or "lack of gameness" ... thereby offering the greatest chance of sparing the lives of the dogs involved :idea:

Jack

[FrostyPaws]

If you read an original copy of the Cajun Rules, Ted has it right. The dog must begin immediately. If the dog stops at any particular point in running the scratch, he loses. The original rules do not allow for the dog to stand for 5 seconds then go. It does not allow for the dog to go immediately and stop halfway for 3 seconds.

Go immediately and continue trying or lose.


Rule 11: Now when one of the dogs turns his head and shoulders away from his opponent after the fight is on it is a turn, whether they are in holds or free, and the handler must claim the turn and the referee must allow the claim if he believes it is a turn or the referee must call the first fair turn he sees whether the handler claims it or not and when the referee calls a turn he shall say, "Handle your dogs", and each handler must pick up his dog as soon as he can without breaking a hold. Handlers carry their dogs to their respective corners, immediately on picking them up, keeping the dogs face turned away from the center of the pit. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners the referee shall say, "Face your dogs". Then the handlers must show their dog's head and shoulders between their legs, facing the center of the pit. The dog that turned first must scratch first. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners. In five seconds more the referee shall say; "Let go", then the dog that made the first turn must be turned loose by his handler and this dog must go across and mouth the other dog. If, when he is turned loose, he refuses to start at once, or if he stops on the way over, or if he fails to reach his opponent, the referee must declare his opponent the winner. A handler is allowed to release his dog at anytime he sees fit after the dog whose turn it is to cross has started over. He must turn him loose when the dogs touch each other. He is not compelled to until then

[Officially Retired]

If you read an original copy of the Cajun Rules, Ted has it right. The dog must begin immediately. If the dog stops at any particular point in running the scratch, he loses. The original rules do not allow for the dog to stand for 5 seconds then go. It does not allow for the dog to go immediately and stop halfway for 3 seconds.
Go immediately and continue trying or lose.

Do you have a copy of that article?

[FrostyPaws]

I have a copy of the original rules, posted on my previous post. :)

Thanks for the green and underlining. I knew it was missing something when I posted it.

[Officially Retired]

I have a copy of the original rules, posted on my previous post. :)

You snuck that in, after the fact :)

Edit: I just highlighted it even more ...

[FrostyPaws]

You know what's even more interesting is the part right AFTER the green, highlighted area. Previously, it says a dog must mouth the other dog. It then says that when the dogs touch, you must release your dog. So many people think that when you release your dog, the scratch has been completed.

Take into account that you have to have a really good referee for this aspect. Lets say that you specify dogs must take holds. Dogs come together at say the 5 second mark, but the scratching dog hasn't taken hold. The referee MUST continue counting until the scratching dog takes hold. It doesn't matter if the dog being held takes hold or not as the onus is on the scratching dog to take hold to complete his scratch.

People really need to familiarize themselves with the rules. The out of hold count rule is one that confuses people also as most don't know it like they should.

[Officially Retired]

Agreed.

I remember even Jack Kelly got it wrong. In a story he told, the scratching dog started licking the opponent ... and Kelly called it a "completed scratch." Kelly's reasoning was that "the tongue is part of the mouth, so the scratching dog mouthed the opponent."

This is where basic horse sense comes into play, or (as in contract law) "The Letter of The Law" versus "The Spirit of the Law."

Kelly was right as to "the letter" of the Cajun Rules, the tongue is part of the mouth. However, he was completely wrong as to the spirit of the Cajun Rules, as "mouthing" clearly means *biting* ... or intent to keep fighting ... and licking is a far cry from that :)

Jack

[R2L]

If you read an original copy of the Cajun Rules, Ted has it right. The dog must begin immediately. If the dog stops at any particular point in running the scratch, he loses. The original rules do not allow for the dog to stand for 5 seconds then go. It does not allow for the dog to go immediately and stop halfway for 3 seconds.

Go immediately and continue trying or lose.


Rule 11: Now when one of the dogs turns his head and shoulders away from his opponent after the fight is on it is a turn, whether they are in holds or free, and the handler must claim the turn and the referee must allow the claim if he believes it is a turn or the referee must call the first fair turn he sees whether the handler claims it or not and when the referee calls a turn he shall say, "Handle your dogs", and each handler must pick up his dog as soon as he can without breaking a hold. Handlers carry their dogs to their respective corners, immediately on picking them up, keeping the dogs face turned away from the center of the pit. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners the referee shall say, "Face your dogs". Then the handlers must show their dog's head and shoulders between their legs, facing the center of the pit. The dog that turned first must scratch first. 25 seconds after the dogs are carried to their corners. In five seconds more the referee shall say; "Let go", then the dog that made the first turn must be turned loose by his handler and this dog must go across and mouth the other dog. If, when he is turned loose, he refuses to start at once, or if he stops on the way over, or if he fails to reach his opponent, the referee must declare his opponent the winner. A handler is allowed to release his dog at anytime he sees fit after the dog whose turn it is to cross has started over. He must turn him loose when the dogs touch each other. He is not compelled to until then


as far as i know this rule has now been changed and is just must mouth the opponent within 10 seconds of releasing it. well, here...

[FrostyPaws]

I don't think the rule has ever been changed here, persay. It's the simple fact that most people have never actually read the rules more than once, and they certainly don't understand a lot of it. Alot of the rules are passed down from person to person, word-of-mouth. I know it was to me until I tracked down an actual copy of the rules. It's just an interesting aspect that most people never realize is even in the rules.

[Officially Retired]

as far as i know this rule has now been changed and is just must mouth the opponent within 10 seconds of releasing it. well, here...


Again, there is no official "change," but individuals always amend it as they (mis)interpret them. The only reason to "change the rules" in any individual contest is to watch the dog that hesitated fight a little bit longer ...

The entire idea is to stop the contest the moment when one dog gives an inkling of wanting to stop. Hell, even if you amend the rules, how many people want to keep a dog that took a 5-count? Not many.

Therefore, why not rule the contest over at the count of 1, like the original rules suggest? The fact of the matter is this: any # after 1 becomes arbitrary. Why not 12 seconds? Why not 60 seconds? Why not 3:40? Why not give the dog a day-and-a-half to heal, regroup, and consider his alternatives?

The creators of the Cajun Rules valued gameness most, and the lives of the dogs most, which is why the dog is required to go at once ... and not hesitate at any point after moving forward. The 3 unimpeachable advantages of this strict adherence is 1) it renders the most exacting of standards, 2) it results in the quickest of contests, and 3) it results in the greatest likelihood of saving the gamer dog.

Jack

[R2L]

I agree Jack. Good that you guys brought this up, i had no clue this was in the original rules. It was not in the last set i read.

I think its smart to make this kind of things clear with the 2 parties and the referee when making the contract.

[SteelyDan]

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning behind the balkans 3 second out of holds rule.... Why they think this is better than Cajun rules.

[Nut]

From what i understood there was to much argues about not handling and or mishandles. And probably not enough correct judges to deal with that.

Why they think its better now is probably because its all they know, and it's so easy. Doesn't require any skill or experience

[Bulldogstalker]

If you go by original to the tee. Look how many ppl should be culling there dogs. I see ppl keep dogs that should nvr be kept from there understanding. When teaching ours we go by original an cull to that process. But bet your ass in a match sum1 gonna want a rule changed to a degree.

[KAIRO]

Balkan rules are maded because many dog fighters was abusing cajun rules at the begining of balkan dog fight. But in many comments here I see that many dogmans think that we(balkanians) are amateur in the Sport, :) it's not true. Ask chico lopez? 3:)

[KAIRO]

It's a joke. But all easter europe and the rest of eastern world fight under the balkan rules.

[SteelyDan]

Do you have a copy of them you can post?

[KAIRO]

I asked my friend to find them and send! when I get it I wil post here!!

[Officially Retired]

Balkan rules are maded because many dog fighters was abusing cajun rules at the begining of balkan dog fight. But in many comments here I see that many dogmans think that we(balkanians) are amateur in the Sport, :) it's not true. Ask chico lopez? 3 :)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[KAIRO]

CA you know what I talk about? gr ch Golden king's Kid 6W D.O.Y.

[FrostyPaws]

I also know that Smart Kennels would frequently lament about how there are no good dogs in the US any longer. It wasn't just him, but it was a lot of people throughout Europe that thought that exact same thing since the laws are so strict here. I don't know how many times I read there are no good dogs in the US anymore. Are there videos of them being matched.

How about we ask Smart Kennels about Chico Lopez? If you're going to bring a person into the discussion, lets make sure the entire discussion is open. Yes, he lost to Kid. Just as Smart lost to Chiliandra.

[skipper]

Yes Gr ch Kid is a great dog. But so is Gr ch Titere. The whole Europe vs America is silly. Wherever there is stiff competition there will be good dogs. No matter if you are in Europe, Asia, south or north America. Personally i think the Balkan rules came from the language barrier. Back in those days when the first dogs were imported, somebody got the rules explained to them and brought it home only to understand half of what he had been told. During time i believe a new set of rules came about. In Cajun rules the handler has a much bigger role in the show than in Balkan rules, and i don't really like it. It's like the old saying if something ain't broke don't fix it.
JMHO

[SteelyDan]

Be very interested to see these Balkan rules. Must be difficult to get a hold of.

[KAIRO]

i have it on my language but it will be dificult for me to translate. Frosty paws I allso hear often that americans no longer have good quality but just don't believe in that. America is big country and I believe there is still much much quality, and maybe would be great for us to import some fresh blood from america to refresh our.

[mitchm]

Kairo, if you send me those rules may be I can help with the translation

[KAIRO]

BALKANSKA PRAVILA - BALKANS RULES

1. Sudija
Sudiju biraju takmičari.
Kod sudije stoji ugovor o stavkama i detaljima meča (kilaža, vreme, mesto, opklada, ...) i eventualnim izmenama pravila. Takodje kod sudije stoji i kapara.

2. Faul
Postoji faul opomena i faul isključenje.
Svaki faul koji utiče direktno na moguć ishod meča je faul isključenje.
Faul opomena postoji da se regulišu manji prekršaji koji ne utiču na krajnji ishod meča i donosi dodatni to jest kazneni skreč psa čiji je vlasnik opomenut.
Ovaj skreč ne utiće na redosled skrečiranja.
Moguće je dosuditi najviše 3 faul opomene, dok je 4. isključenje.

3. Bacanje novčića
Novčićem se rešava izbor strana u ringu, ko prvi kupa,... kao i sve druge sitnice koje mogu da doprinesu prednosti za jednu ili drugu stranu.

4. Vaga
U ugovoru se precizira koja je vaga merodavna.

5. Merenje
Za čitanje skale to jest odčitavanje kilaže merodavan je sudija.
Pas koji predje dogovorenu kilažu gubi kaparu.
Ako oba psa prelaze dogovorenu kilažu, kapara se vraća bez obaveze da se meč pusti.
Ako su oba psa u kilaži, stavlja se opklada.

6. Pranje psa
Psi se peru šamponom, sodom, mlekom, vodom.
Najbolje je da hendler pere svog psa uz instrukcije protivničke strane da ne bi došlo do "nenamernog" zalivanja ušiju ili šamponiranja očiju.

7. Ispiranje
Jedini dodatak vodi za ispiranje može biti soda bikarbona.
Peškiri treba da zamene strane, ali se dešava da protivnik donese neku portiklu pošto zna da neće njome brisati svog psa, tako da je dobro tu stavku precizirati u ugovoru.

8. Proba ukusa
Kad su psi oprani, takmičar može liznuti protivničkog psa.
Svaka eventualna nepravilnost automatski znaći faul isključenje.

9. Puštanje pasa
Oba hendlera drže svoje pse u svojim uglovima i moraju ih pustiti na znak sudije.
Prevremeno puštanje nije dozvoljeno i ako se desi da pas zbog ranijeg puštanja napravi prednost u odnosu na protivnika može biti isključen.

10. Oblačenje
Hendleri se mogu obući po izboru ali tako da to ne smeta protivničkom psu (npr. crn pas - crna trenerka).

11. Okret
Ako pas u toku takmičenja okrene glavu i grudi od protivnika, bez obzira da li su psi u zahvatu ili ne, onda mogu oba hendlera tražiti da sudija dosudi okret.
Sudija je merodavan i on prihvata okret ili ne.
Pas koji je napravio okret ide prvi na skreč.
Psi se posle toga razdvajaju uvek kad nisu u zahvatu i skrečiraju naizmenično, ako u medjuvremenu nema faul skreča.
Skreč za nastavak se ne računa kao redovni skreč i nema osvežavanja.

12. Hendlovanje posle okreta
Kad se psi uspešno razdvoje svaki hendler nosi svog psa u svoj ugao.
Iza skreč linije u uglu svaki hendler može držati svog psa kako god želi.
Vreme bi trebalo meriti od trenutka kad su oba psa u svojim uglovima to jest kada hendleri dobiju sundjere.
Po isteku 25 sekundi sudija naredjuje da se psi okrenu jedan prema drugome.
Pas koji je na redu za skreč mora biti sa sve 4 noge na zemlji.
U 30-oj sekundi daje se znak hendleru koji ima redni skreč da pusti psa.
Pas koji skrečira ima 10 sekundi vremena da napravi kontakt sa protivničkim psom.
Hendler psa koji ide na skreč mora sačekati iza skreč linije da mu pas napravi kontakt.
Hendler koji čeka protivničkog psa mora držati svog psa tako da je za protivničkog u potpunosti vidljiv i može pustiti svog psa u istom trenutku kad i pas koji skrečira, ali ga mora pustiti u trenutku kad je protivnički pas napravio kontakt.

13.Hendlovanje
Oba hendlera treba sve vreme da se ponašaju sportski.
Svaki hendler uvek moze tražiti faul ako misli da je napravljen, a na sudiji je da ga izrekne ili ne.

14. Nezahvat
U slučaju da psi nisu više u zahvatu sudija broji do tri ( tri sekunde, a ne “jen-dva-tri”) i ako nema zahvata sudija naredjuje hendlerima odvajanje.
Ako se psi u medjuvremenu uhvate, odvajaju se brejksticima.
U slučaju nezahvata prvi skrečira pas koji je napravio okret.
Ako okreta nema, na skreč ide pas koji prvi ostane bez zahvata, bez obzira da li je gornji ili donji pas. Ako oba psa ostanu bez zahvata istovremeno, prvi ide na skreč pas koji je u lošijoj poziciji (donji pas).
Psi skrečiraju naizmenično.
Sudija svaki nezahvat broji do 3 (tri sekunde).
Sudija ne bi trebalo da broji kad su psi u akciji ili eskivaži, već kad stvarno nema zahvata.
Pas koji ne kompletira skreč za 10 sekundi, gubi meč.
Ako pas stane na svom prvom skreču, a protivnički pas nije skrečirao nijednom, onda mora da skrečira za pobedu.

15. Razdvajanje zbog pecanja
Hendler sudiji prijavljuje pecanje to jest probijenu usnu, a sudija treba to da utvrdi.
Sudija treba da:
1. sam pokuša da skine usnu sa zuba
2. da dozvoli hendlerima da to urade
3. da naredi hendlerima da razdvoje pse, kako bi hendler sam mogao da oslobodi usnu svom psu.
U slučaju da psi treba da se razdvoje zbog pecanja, pustaju se na sudijin znak sa sredine ringa na razdaljini od oko 1,5 m.
U slučaju da su psi u zahvatu “usta na usta“, razdvajaju se tek kad promene zahvat!

16. Iskakanje iz riga
U slučaju da pas iskoći iz ringa, gubi meč.
Medjutim, ako sudija smatra da je pas iskoćio iz ringa zbog smetnji iz okoline, može narediti da se psi puste sa sredine ringa kao kod pecanja.

17. Veličina ringa
Veličina ringa je 4m x 4m.
Ako se obe strane slažu i ako im to odgovara, ring može biti i veći.

18. Smetnje
Ako iz bilo kog razloga sudija utvrdi da meč nije moguće nastaviti, prekida se i opklada se vrača.
A ako je jedna strana kriva za eksces, opkladu automatski dobija druga strana.

19. Honorar sudije

__________________________________________________ ______________________________
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*Ovu variantu sastavio je dalibor iz knicanina za Arena Show 2006 god*

U pitu nije dozvoljeno držati vodu, sundjere, peškire ili neke druge stvari, dok sudija treba da ima kod sebe brejkstik i olovku, kao i kopiju ovih pravila.
Sam pit ne sme da bude kraci od 5,28m uzduž svake stranice, ako je moguče, dok pod treba da je prekriven tepihom na kome se nacrta kvadrat sa stranicama po 4,12m, a tačno na polovini nacrta se centralna linija koja je isto udaljena od obe skreč linije.

Fauli koji znače prekid i gubitak meča:

A. Napuštanje pita sa ili bez psa pre nego što to sudija dosudi.

B. Primiti bilo šta u pit sa vanjske strane ili dozvoliti bilo kome van pita da dotakne ili pomogne psu.

C. Gurati, tresti, poguravati ili baciti psa preko skreč linije ili mu pomoči da ide preko linije na bilo koji drugi način osim da se ohrabruje glasom.

D. Preći preko skreč linije pre nego što pas kompletira skreč i pre nego što to sudija dozvoli.

E. Cupkati po pitu ili šutirati stranice pita, vikati na suprotnikovog psa ili mu davati naredbe ili (po sudijinom mišljenju) uraditi nešto što može ometati pse dok skrečiraju ili se bore i na taj način doprineti ishodu meča.

F. Ometati hendlera suprotnika ili se dotaknuti jednog ili drugog psa pre nego što da sudija znak da se psi rastave.

[KAIRO]

This is Serbian language! allmos as same as Croatian!

[mitchm]

Cool, I'll print it out and do the translation the best I can.

[KAIRO]

You have some balkanian friends there in Canada?

[mitchm]

Balkan Rules

1. Referee
Referee is chosen by contestants.
Referee is in possession of key points and details of the match (weight, time, place, money, ...) and to any eventual changes of the rules. Also, the referee is in possession of the forfeit money.

2. Fouls
There are warning fouls and expulsion/disqualification fouls.
Any foul that directly affects the outcome of the match is an expulsion foul.
Warning fouls exist to regulate smaller offences that don't directly affect the match outcome and this results in a punishment scratch to the dog who's handler was warned. This scratch doesn't change the scratch sequence. It is possible to have three warning fouls, the fourth is an automatic disqualification.

3. Coin toss
A coin toss decides choice of corner, who washes first, ... as well as all other small choices that give an advantage to one side or the other.

4. Scale
What scale will rule will be in the agreement

5. Weighing
Reading of the scale will be the responsibility of the referee.
Dog that is over agreed weight will lose forfeit.
If both dogs are over agreed weight, forfeit money is returned with obligation to continue match.
If both dogs are on weight, wagers are placed.

6. Washing of dogs
Dogs are washed with shampoo, baking soda, milk and water.
It's best that each handler wash their own dog under supervision of opposing side to prevent accidental over washing of ears and shampoo in the eyes.

7. Rinsing
Only baking soda may be added in the rinsing.
Towels should be exchanged, however it happens that an opponent will bring a bib only knowing the opponent won't use that, so it should be a key point specified in the agreement.

8. Testing after the washing
After the washing, each opponent may choose to lick the opponents dog.
Any potential foul play will result in an automatic disqualification.

9. Releasing the dogs
Each handler holds his dog in their corner and must release on the referees command.
Releasing early is not allowed; if it happens that the dog released early receives an advantage over opponent dog, he can be disqualified.

10. Clothing
Handlers may dress as they wish as long as it doesn't affect the opponent (example, black dog - black pants).

11. Turning
If one dog turns his head and chest from opponent when the fight is on, weather in holds or not, both handlers may claim a turn to the referee.
The referee calls the turn or not.
The dog that turned first must scratch first.
After this dogs are picked up when not in holds and take turns scratching alternately; if during this time there are no foul scratches.
Scratch to continue is not part of the alternate scratching and there is no refresh time in the corner.

12. Handling after turning
When dogs are separated each handler takes his dog to their respective corner.
Behind the scratch line each handler may hold his dog how he wishes.
Stop time should start when both dogs are in their corner which is when both handlers receive sponges.
After 25 seconds the referee shall call to face the dogs.
The dog whose turn it is to scratch must have all four legs on the ground.
On the count of 30 the scratching dog must be released.
Scratching dog has 10 seconds to make contact with his opponent.
Handler of the scratching dog must remain behind his scratch line until his dog makes contact.
The opposing handler must hold his dog to be fully visible to the scratching dog and may release his dog at the same moment the scratching dog is released, however he must release his dog when scratching dog makes contact.

13. Handling
Both handlers should behave in a sporting fashion at all times.
Either handler may call foul play and the referees has final decision to accept the foul or not.

14. Out of holds
If the dogs are out of holds the referee counts to three (three full seconds) and if they are still out of hold the referee calls to handle your dogs.
If the dogs take hold at this moment, break sticks are used to handle.
If out of holds the dog that turned must scratch first.
If there are no turns made, first dog to scratch is the dog who was out of holds first; it doesn't matter if said dog is bottom or top dog. If both dogs lose a hold at the same time, the first dog to scratch is the dog in a worse position (bottom dog).
Dogs make scratches alternately.
Referee counts to three each out of holds.
Referee should not count if the dogs are active and avoiding but rather when they are truly out of holds.
Dog that doesn't make his scratch in 10 seconds is the loser.
If a dog doesn't go on his first scratch and the opposing dog has not scratched once, then he must scratch to win.

15. Handling due to being fanged
Handlers report a fanged dog to the referee, if he gets his teeth hung on his own lip; the referee makes the call.
Referee should:
1. Try to un-fang
2. To allow the handlers to un-fang
3. To call handlers to separate the dogs so the handler can un-fang
If the dogs are separated because they are fanged, they are to be released at the center of the box 1.5 meters apart from one another.

16. Wall jumping
If a dog jumps the pit he is declared the loser.
However, if the referee feels a dog jumped the wall because of outside interference, he can have the dogs released at the center of the ring as in the case of fangging.

17. Size of ring
Ring size is 4 meters x 4 meters.
If both competitors agree and it's in their interest, ring size may be bigger.

18. Interference
If due to any reason the referee determines the match can't be continued, match is stopped and wagers are returned.
If one side is to blame, wagers automatically go to the other side.

19. Pay the referee

[mitchm]

Kandyman, you beat me to it, I had things on the go and didn't realize you did the translation

[kandyman]

Yours is a lot easier to read. When I started I thought it would be alot easier than it actually was.

[KAIRO]

So i'm interestin in your opinion about Balkan rules!!

[Mudville]

Voted Cajun. Lot's of good posts and insight. Cajun have been the only rules relevant in this region. Beyond that I try to be as true as I can be, to whatever I do. So if it aint broke don't fix it. I also agree with the rules being in place to PRESERVE the gamer dog. GAMENESS is truly a beautiful sight. Tried to paste the Cajun Rules but couldn't copy from this phone. So here's the link that I use. http://www.gamedogs.unlugar.com/reglas.htm
I do believe there is a print feature though, for those on a puter.

[bamaman]

I have saw this discussion come up a time or two and I would like to hear peoples opinions on the Balkan and Russian dogs.I wonder why is it thier matches last so long? Also I wonder how you feel about the quality of thier dogs ?Also wonder about thier rules compared to Cajun rules if you feel thier is any advantages or disadvanges either way ?

[Nut]

Reason they r so long is because you need a 3 sec count for a handle. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/showthread.php?2101-Balkan-Rules-vs-Cajun-Rules&highlight=balkan

[Frank43]

I know this is an old thread, but today someone asked why a person would get a dog from someone not local paper hangers etc etc. One reason to me was there’s some level of quality control if people are competing fast lane, but the other question. To me it seems you get a different dog from Cajun rules than if the people around you are just off the chain role to death types. For some reason I don’t trust dogs like that the same. Do you think Cajun rules builds a better more stable dog?

[IWK]

Frank43, I absolutely think you get better dogs by following Cajun rules. Part of it is because the rules are specifically designed to select for better dogs, and part of it is that people who are serious enough to employ the rules are generally better dogmen.

[creek_bottom]

Frank43, I absolutely think you get better dogs by following Cajun rules. Part of it is because the rules are specifically designed to select for better dogs, and part of it is that people who are serious enough to employ the rules are generally better dogmen.

Wonderful post!!!
Creek Bottom

[Frank43]

I think it selects indirectly for dogs that want to please and work for their owner. To win in the fastlane takes some conditioning. A dog has to bond with a person do put the work in. I don’t think the stay on a chain and roll to the death type dogs are the same. Seems like it’s a less selective process.

[IWK]

I think it selects indirectly for dogs that want to please and work for their owner. To win in the fastlane takes some conditioning. A dog has to bond with a person do put the work in. I don’t think the stay on a chain and roll to the death type dogs are the same. Seems like it’s a less selective process.

Well put.