View Full Version : water intake in a kibble keep
Made a thread last year about water intake on raw food in a keep. Most people said they add water to their raw feed to ensure their dog was hydrated enough for next days training. Mostly because most dogs who are being fed raw leave their water bowls alone. I have to say first i was skeptic when i read frosty was giving 1 oz water per 1 lbs of dogweight, on top of the raw feed but i when i tried it for myself the dogs never felt better. To give an example, when you're training a 45 lbs dog, and it would get a kilo of raw food. The water he gets would be 60-70% out of his food, lets say 20 oz + 45 = 65 oz/ around 2 liters of water per day.
I wonder, how do or did you guys manage your dogs water intake on kibbles? Come close to 65 oz? Normally you would expect a dog on kibbles to drink like a camel. Of course i happen to have one who doesn't. Still, i would like to hydrate him after the training and make sure he's hydrated enough for the next training.
Also want to ask again, do you leave your water bowl with the dog 24-7. Because how do you know it didnt drink within 2 houres before the training. Since you want to get his exact weight every day.
Cheers
FrostyPaws
09-16-2013, 12:17 PM
LOL @ R2L! I'm glad you actually tried it for yourself. It helps a lot more than people realize.
As for kibble, I can only tell you what a personal friend from a successful kennel did. He would add 1oz per lb also in his kibble before he worked the dog. He would let the kibble soak up most/all of the water and just feed after work like anything else. He also left water down most of the time, but he would dump it 2-3 hours before he was going to work the dog to ensure the dog didn't decide to have a drink or three before work.
Me personally, I don't leave free water for my dogs during a keep. I regulate all water. They get the water in their feed, and a lot of time I'll give them some in the mornings.
Frosty, i think it doesn't only hydrate and keep your dog hydrated enough for the next training, allot of water is also the best thing against water retention. I was training the same dog im going to train right now, 1 year ago, together with the one i was keeping on raw. Because that one got injured. This one was on kibbles and i kept checking his skin every day, it would bounce back in 1 sec. First i added like 700 ml to his feed, then 600 then 500 then 400 and his skin still bounced back. First he would work great and recover fast but as the days went by he could take less work and still not close his mouth after 30 min cool down, in the middle of the winter. He was rested just fine. I'm 100% sure his muscles started to retent water because there was a lack of. Meanwhile the injured dog got sick also, he dropped to 18,9 kg (20,5kg) Once he got better i still didn't train him but i started to give 1000 gr of raw and added 1 liter water on top of that, every day. The day, i had to chose between the 2 of them. Dog that was injured and sick crawled back to 20,3 and felt even better then before he got injured, while he wasn't trained for 4,5 week. Maybe it wasn't the wisest thing i ever did to take any of them 2, but he still caught his first boar in 2:14 ;) It also works the other way around, when the muscles are already holding water, give allot of water will help to lose that.
The method your friend is using sounds perfect to me. Thanks, think i will do something like that and remove the bowl 3-4 hour's before the training.
I add water to the feed as well. When I used kibble I soaked it much like Frosty said. When I worked straight nights I would leave the water out because I usually came home and the dogs come out of the box and I start the walking/working. Now that I work a different schedule that changes week to week I get the water up about three to four weeks into the keep and regulate his water intake til the show. EWO
MEAUXTIVATION
09-16-2013, 06:07 PM
Good evening fellas, I have a question. Do you'll allow your hound to drink water right after the work or do you just let them cool off with no water and just add the one ounce per pound into the feed after they cool off? Or do you allow them to drink after the work and add the water to the feed too? I usually let my hound drink right after doing a lil work. What are yall thoughts on this.
FrostyPaws
09-16-2013, 10:37 PM
Meau, I don't let mine drink right after working for the simple reason that alot of time, they would try and guzzle the water back. There have been many times after doing so that they would simply vomit the water back up. On the days they didn't vomit the water up, they would be sketchy about drinking all the water in the food. So I just decided to let them cool down and simply feed them when the time was ready.
MEAUXTIVATION
09-17-2013, 05:54 PM
That sounds about right Frosty, I'll try it that way. Appreciate the info.
Ditto on the Frosty post. EWO
Another thing i would like to have some input on is, when you're adding your supplements to 1liter + water, would they still be just as useful as when your adding them to the feed without water?
And another thing i am wondering is, when you add all that water to the kibbles to soak it, do you use warm water only?
It soaks better, on the other hand water companies discourage drinking warm water from the tab because metals like copper, lead and cadmium can come lose from the waterpipes.
I was thinking of soaking the same ammount of water as the kibbles. So for 300 grams of kibbles 300 gram of warm water + all supplements for 30 minutes. So the suplements can soak into the kibbles aswell, and adding the rest of the normal temp tab water after. then feed.
What do you guys think of this?
We left water for the dog right up to work out time. Water was reintroduced a hour after cool down and rub down. Would hold back dog food to allow dog to drink first. After dog had a good drink would give the dog it's feeding.
The amount of kibble-All Bran back then used through the keep. Was amount used in the pre keep when dog was slowly being brought down to show weight. Large dog may go one pound under and smaller dog 1/2 pound under best pulling weight. Depending on type weather. The kibble-All Bran was soaked in the amount of say two or three cups of Chicken broth. Till nice and swollen, might add a little more broth after that. Wanted a canned dog food consistency but not soupy.
In the pre keep the dog got the kibble-All Bran along with all supplements-greens-boiled egg with shell to be used with broth, minus the Chicken-Necks and Chicken backs. When the real work started the Chicken Backs and Necks were added as needed to work and stay on weight. Back then we were aware of the fact that the kibble was cooked in high heat and devoid of Digestive enzymes and probiotics. Which we added in along with one tablespoon of a molasses grown yeast and one tablespoon of desiccated powered Liver. It took four pounds of raw Liver to make one pound of Desiccated Liver.
Depending on season etc. most dogs got 4-8 oz. maybe more of the chicken broth 12 hours before the main workout. I had at one time a good dog book written on dog nutrition. Sure better ones are out there today. One thing I remember the writer saying was allowing a dog to have plenty of water as it needs it or wants it. Will increase endurance in the presence of good fats by 70% to 80%. I figured that is a pretty good benefit since water and animal fats were cheap compared to other nutriments.
The only reason for so much water control in the older dog keeps. First the main keep was only 4 to 5 weeks long. Since they were feeding raw were getting water out of the feed. Controlling the water was to try and keep a high blood count and help the dog from bleeding out and hopefully breathe cooler.
Something simple as liquid Geritol given one capful a day diluted in that broth in the feed. Did a great job at building and maintaining a high blood count with out reducing the water.
I know there are many ways to skin a cat. We fed very similar to the way J. Crenshaw did with some differences. If you have a method that works best for you. Stick with it till something later is found to work better. I still believe one of the biggest mistakes most dog men make is not having their dog's bowel's completely empty. Especially when entered in a Multi dog show and you can not go first. Can not go first best go last. Cheers
R2L, we used warm to hot water in the cold months and cool water in the warmer months. Using warm to hot water was to help break down the fibers in the feed. That was one thought on it.
I figured a dog would like a warm meal in the Winter and a cool meal in the Summer. In the winter a hot bowl of Oatmeal with a slab of butter helped me face those windy cold days. While hanging off a telephone pole. LOL Cheers
Good posts. Like CYJ said, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. When I first started I left water out and in time the dog came off the water on his own. We always watered the feed down so what he needed was always there. In time I swayed away from leaving it out trying to be in control and later my work schedule forced some changes. Nowadays it is pretty much leave the water out til three or four weeks in and about the time he starts to come off I pick it up and regulate water intake from there.
I have always thought it better to soak the dry food. EWO