DIARRHEA

[No Quarter Kennel]

Got a quality stud dog from a prominent breeder. He's worked on this dog for about a month now. He's in tight with his vet.
Diarrhea non stop. He's run every wormer he can think of through the dog and tried just about everything but immodeum. I offered to help, so he sent him home with me.
I can't post pictures as I'd set myself up for all kinds of shit.

1. He acts good, wags his tail and his eyes look great.
2. He has a good appetite. So for, I've had my best luck with oatmeal and salmon. He likes my yogurt, gizzards/liver/egg and oil mixture as well.
3. I've had him a week and although he eats great, twice a day, he shits pure liquid diarrhea.

Any and all help would be appreciated.
The dog is a skeleton

[loot]

I would check for coccidia. I had 1 a while ago doing the same thing. Treated him with Sumlet. An did the trick. Good luck.

Jack or someone else may have a better answer

[Officially Retired]

1. Stop feeding him pure meat.
2. Start feeding him 2 cups of rice, plus boneless chicken breast (cooked).
3. Add 1 cup of Pedialyte with his feed.
4. Give him Immodium AD.

The dog needs FLUIDS and ELECTROLYTES if he's having so much diarrhea :idea:

I don't know what "run different kinds of wormers" means, exactly, as each one could have been given inadequately :idea:

At this point, I would suspect (as Loot says) coccidia, giardia, or some other microbe. There are 2 ways you can do this:


1. Use a combination of Fenbendazole (23 mg/lb/TWICE DAILY for 5 days + Pyrantel (16 mg/lb, also for 5 days). A synergistic effect between pyrantel and febantel has now been proven.

2. Metronidazole (12 mg/kg, TWICE DAILY for 5 days) + TMZ (50 mg/kg the first day and 25 mg/kg/day) for 2–3 wk thereafter

Given his condition, you might want to do all 4 of these, just to be sure.

If he's still symptomatic after this, then I am stumped.

Good luck,

Jack

[waccamaw]

Get a bottle of corrid from tractor supply go by the bottle .if a puppy give 2 cc in the mouth and add to the water as directed .

[Officially Retired]

Get a bottle of corrid from tractor supply go by the bottle .if a puppy give 2 cc in the mouth and add to the water as directed .

For one thing, the guy said he had an adult dog, so this may be way beyond coccidia.

And for another, Corrid is decent at treating coccidia, but not as effective as TMZ.

The regimens I suggested will also not only handle coccida, but also giardia, worms, and a whole host of bacterial/protozoal infections besides coccidia ...

[Nut]

Rice and chickenbreast works great indeed Jack, very easy digestible. Try to feed him a few times a day in small portions instead of once.

Duphalyte would do him good. http://www.cymedica.com/www/en/products/duphalyte-solution-for-injection/

[Officially Retired]

Agreed, nut.

Rice is binding. And, if it is coccidia, raw meat is the worst thing you can give them ... coccidia thrives in that environment.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Got it guys. Thanks.
I did just that this morning. I gave him boiled rice with some chicken broth and I have some chicken in the fridge I'll cook in just a bit and feed him again. This shit is so thin, it absorbs straight into the ground if he shits on the ground. That was a few days ago. Now, he's up to a clam chowder consistency.

I'm going with Jack's outline and I'll keep you guys posted.

[No Quarter Kennel]

TMZ - exactly what is this?

[No Quarter Kennel]

I've got the other three on hand. Would like to know what TMZ is.

[Limey Kennels]

cant harm to boost him with Dyne!. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=711 this stuf wil not give any waist at al as it is nearly 100%http://www.virbac.com.au/p-virbacaupuben/display.aspx?srv=p-virbacau&typ=pub&lang=en&cmd=view&style=styles/page2.xsl&select=PAGE[@ID$eq$PAGE_243] upsorbt bij the dog. if i have a dog with Diarea i feed him Dyny only to compleatly rest his intestins. Electrolites tru Beta-Cell

[No Quarter Kennel]

Thanks Limey - I'll add this in as well.
The dog is Hailer. He's a son of my Hailgator dog. Hailgator was a dog of true to type Alligator blood and his son is one of the only one's around. I'd like to pull this guy through and use him as a stud dog.

[FrostyPaws]

TMZ is Trimethoprim/Sulfadiazine. Always try to have some on hand.

[waccamaw]

Corrid does work on grown dogs ,with certain stomach parasites besides coccidiosis .it is the best I have seen .it will also make them pass round worms .

[Officially Retired]

Corrid does work on grown dogs ,with certain stomach parasites besides coccidiosis .it is the best I have seen .it will also make them pass round worms .

You're right that corrid works on adults, but (in my experience) not as well as TMZ ... yet it definitely works.

However, I have never read a single thing that corrid gets any other kind of microbe, nor have I read a thing that it gets roundworms too. (And I have read a lot.)

Do you have any research (or label indications) that show this?

Thanks,

Jack

[waccamaw]

Plenty of on hands use.i gave a litter of pups 2 cc each plus I put it in the water .the next day dead worms all in the crap .done this on several occasions.had a grown bitch with the runs for 2 days ,gave Her 3 cc oral then I added to drinking water .next day fine .

[No Quarter Kennel]

1. Stop feeding him pure meat.
2. Start feeding him 2 cups of rice, plus boneless chicken breast (cooked).
3. Add 1 cup of Pedialyte with his feed.
4. Give him Immodium AD.

The dog needs FLUIDS and ELECTROLYTES if he's having so much diarrhea :idea:

I don't know what "run different kinds of wormers" means, exactly, as each one could have been given inadequately :idea:

At this point, I would suspect (as Loot says) coccidia, giardia, or some other microbe. There are 2 ways you can do this:


1. Use a combination of Fenbendazole (23 mg/lb/TWICE DAILY for 5 days + Pyrantel (16 mg/lb, also for 5 days). A synergistic effect between pyrantel and febantel has now been proven.

2. Metronidazole (12 mg/kg, TWICE DAILY for 5 days) + TMZ (50 mg/kg the first day and 25 mg/kg/day) for 2–3 wk thereafter

Given his condition, you might want to do all 4 of these, just to be sure.

If he's still symptomatic after this, then I am stumped.

Good luck,

Jack

Since I posted this, my dog gets a cup and a half of boiled rice along with cooked white chicken meet. About a cup to a cup and a half. He gets this twice a day.
He's been on immodium AD, from 5, up to 7 cc now, twice a day. He's skinny as a skeleton but is about a 55lb dog healthy.
He's getting plenty of electrolytes and according to the "skin test" he's hydrated.
I have run a full 5 day course of Fenben and Pyrantal through him.
He started with pancake batter shits and now has exactly the same pancake batter shits. Absolutely no fucking change. Extremely frustrating.

I started him on the Metronidazole and TMZ this morning, so we'll see how this goes.

The dog acts great. He acts just like a completely healthy dog. However, if animal control saw him, I'd be up shit creek.
It's extremely frustrating to have no change. His appetite is awesome. He can't wait for his next meal.

Oh yeah, Limey - I started the supplement you recommended as well this morning.

If anyone has any helpful info - let me know. I'll do my part on my end.

[SGC]

That is a shame the meds did not clear him up and he still has loose stool.

Can you give a bit more background on him? How old is he? What has he been fed in the past and did he have firm stool on that food? Has he been healthy up until recently?

It could be a food intolerance. I have a 12 plus yr old dog that developed a food intolerance about a yr ago and it is tough to find what she can eat and digest. She does great on cooked sweet potato (about 5 ounces) and cooked fish (about 4-5 ounces) twice a day but I am trying other meats now.

If it is not caused by a parasite, what else could it be? Did the vet have any ideas?

[No Quarter Kennel]

That is a shame the meds did not clear him up and he still has loose stool.

Can you give a bit more background on him? How old is he? What has he been fed in the past and did he have firm stool on that food? Has he been healthy up until recently?

It could be a food intolerance. I have a 12 plus yr old dog that developed a food intolerance about a yr ago and it is tough to find what she can eat and digest. She does great on cooked sweet potato (about 5 ounces) and cooked fish (about 4-5 ounces) twice a day but I am trying other meats now.

If it is not caused by a parasite, what else could it be? Did the vet have any ideas?

This is a dog that belongs to someone else. He claims the dog got the freakin runs about 6 weeks before I ever picked him up. He looks like shit. He's a walking skeleton. He said he run about every worming protocol through the dog with no luck.

SO, I offered to take it on to see if I could help the dog. I started with cleaning him up, I termidor'd him (frontline), hit him with droncit.
Then, I followed the protocol Jack lined out with the Pyrantal and Fenbendizol. No change.
He was raised on subpar kibble with meat scraps and supplements.
He has had nothing but boiled right and cooked chicken for the past, almost, two weeks I've had him.
He doesn't have "loose" stool, he has a thin pancake batter stool. Just spreads out thin like a pancake batter. Got a yellowish brown color to it.
I started him on the TMZ and Metron yesterday.
He's had immodium twice daily as well as antibiotics the first entire week I had him.

He looks better now. His coat is better, he's shinier, he acts incredibly good for a dog in his condition. He just looks like shit and cannot form a turd.

I think that's about all the info I can think of. If you got ideas, throw em my way.
If he don't clear up after this treatment, I'll take him in to get him looked at.

[waccamaw]

Since I posted this, my dog gets a cup and a half of boiled rice along with cooked white chicken meet. About a cup to a cup and a half. He gets this twice a day.
He's been on immodium AD, from 5, up to 7 cc now, twice a day. He's skinny as a skeleton but is about a 55lb dog healthy.
He's getting plenty of electrolytes and according to the "skin test" he's hydrated.
I have run a full 5 day course of Fenben and Pyrantal through him.
He started with pancake batter shits and now has exactly the same pancake batter shits. Absolutely no fucking change. Extremely frustrating.

I started him on the Metronidazole and TMZ this morning, so we'll see how this goes.

The dog acts great. He acts just like a completely healthy dog. However, if animal control saw him, I'd be up shit creek.
It's extremely frustrating to have no change. His appetite is awesome. He can't wait for his next meal.

Oh yeah, Limey - I started the supplement you recommended as well this morning.

If anyone has any helpful info - let me know. I'll do my part on my end.

My advice is dont eat the pancakes(LOL)

[waccamaw]

This is a dog that belongs to someone else. He claims the dog got the freakin runs about 6 weeks before I ever picked him up. He looks like shit. He's a walking skeleton. He said he run about every worming protocol through the dog with no luck.

SO, I offered to take it on to see if I could help the dog. I started with cleaning him up, I termidor'd him (frontline), hit him with droncit.
Then, I followed the protocol Jack lined out with the Pyrantal and Fenbendizol. No change.
He was raised on subpar kibble with meat scraps and supplements.
He has had nothing but boiled right and cooked chicken for the past, almost, two weeks I've had him.
He doesn't have "loose" stool, he has a thin pancake batter stool. Just spreads out thin like a pancake batter. Got a yellowish brown color to it.
I started him on the TMZ and Metron yesterday.
He's had immodium twice daily as well as antibiotics the first entire week I had him.

He looks better now. His coat is better, he's shinier, he acts incredibly good for a dog in his condition. He just looks like shit and cannot form a turd.

I think that's about all the info I can think of. If you got ideas, throw em my way.
If he don't clear up after this treatment, I'll take him in to get him looked at.

Give that corrid a try ,I have had the same thing happen .corrid worked for me .

[No Quarter Kennel]

My advice is dont eat the pancakes(LOL)

No shit.....pun intended.
After I run this TMZ treatment through him, I'll give the corrid a try if he's still bad off.

[waccamaw]

You can wait to long ,I would give it now ,when the liner of the intestine is gone he will bleed out .been there done that ,.

[waccamaw]

If you don't see a change in his stool within 24 hrs,the meds that are giving him are not the meds for the job .hold his feed but keep his fluids to him .

[waccamaw]

You can also get a fecal exam done .could be a severe case of whip worms

[Officially Retired]

You can also get a fecal exam done .could be a severe case of whip worms

That is why I recommended the pyrantel + fenbendazole ... to get worms too (if any).

There is no literature, anywhere, that supports the idea that corid gets rid of any species of worm, let alone whips.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

My advice is dont eat the pancakes(LOL)

:lol:

[BONEDADDY]

Not to be funny NQK, I always worm any new dog on the yard. I have gotten dogs from people who claim to worm their dogs on a regular basis but the dog still has worms. Also give the dog a high-protein feed (not so high as to cause kidney failure). Take him to the vet immediately or you might come home to a tragedy. The owner may blame you for the loss. This is just my opinion but do what you can and if that don't work, take him back.

[Officially Retired]

This is a dog that belongs to someone else. He claims the dog got the freakin runs about 6 weeks before I ever picked him up. He looks like shit. He's a walking skeleton. He said he run about every worming protocol through the dog with no luck.

SO, I offered to take it on to see if I could help the dog. I started with cleaning him up, I termidor'd him (frontline), hit him with droncit.
Then, I followed the protocol Jack lined out with the Pyrantal and Fenbendizol. No change.
He was raised on subpar kibble with meat scraps and supplements.
He has had nothing but boiled right and cooked chicken for the past, almost, two weeks I've had him.
He doesn't have "loose" stool, he has a thin pancake batter stool. Just spreads out thin like a pancake batter. Got a yellowish brown color to it.
I started him on the TMZ and Metron yesterday.
He's had immodium twice daily as well as antibiotics the first entire week I had him.

He looks better now. His coat is better, he's shinier, he acts incredibly good for a dog in his condition. He just looks like shit and cannot form a turd.

I think that's about all the info I can think of. If you got ideas, throw em my way.
If he don't clear up after this treatment, I'll take him in to get him looked at.


The TMZ/Metro should do the trick ... I hope ... has he also had the simple rice/chicken change to his diet?

Good luck!

Jack

[DLDTommy]

I don't for a second believe that enzymes are a solution to your problem but I bet he could use some to help process his meals and get some nutrition if he is lookin thin. I hope all turns out well for you.
Cheers

[Officially Retired]

I don't for a second believe that enzymes are a solution to your problem but I bet he could use some to help process his meals and get some nutrition if he is lookin thin. I hope all turns out well for you.
Cheers

You actually reminded me, there is a problem some dogs have called "malabsorption disorder" that would be worth looking into ...

[Nut]

Iv had one that has been on water shit for a month. He also started to throw up at point. Tried about everything, than i just put him on a good rice lamb kibble because he was getting to skinny. Solved it all.

Sometimes i give them an amoxicilline cure for some days (injecatable) and it seems to help to. But don't take my word on that.

[SGC]

I don't for a second believe that enzymes are a solution to your problem but I bet he could use some to help process his meals and get some nutrition if he is lookin thin. I hope all turns out well for you.
Cheers


You actually reminded me, there is a problem some dogs have called "malabsorption disorder" that would be worth looking into ...

Yes, it does rather sound like he can’t digest his food properly.

The chicken and rice diet is good and bland but if he has been on it for the last 2 weeks and still has runny stool, then it has to be something in his digestive system.

Maybe some probiotics would help? Maybe feeding him one meal a day instead of two might make it easier for his system to process the food?

Has he had bloodwork done? If so, did it show anything?

Could he have gotten into something poisonous 6 weeks ago when it started?

I hope you can get him healthy again. It’s frustrating to have him doing so poorly.

[No Quarter Kennel]

The TMZ/Metro should do the trick ... I hope ... has he also had the simple rice/chicken change to his diet?

Good luck!

Jack

Yes, I changed his diet the day I got him, to just boiled/grilled chicken and white rice. That's it.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Man I appreciate all the advice, suggestions and help.
I truly believe it's something to do with the actual digestive process and not something disrupting the process (worms, parasites, protozoa, etc.).......Like I said, I'll go through with the 5 days of Zole and TMZ to see what that does and if no change still, I'll have to get him in to a vet I guess.

And not to be dramatic, he's not thin,,,,,,he's boney as hell. Literally a freakin nazi war camp skeleton.

Here's something else I noticed. He had a couple of cuts on his ears when I got him two weeks ago. They look exactly the same. No improvement or healing process appears to be in affect. I wonder if this is indicative of anything?

It's strange too as he's an extremely happy dog. He wags his tail and goes bonkers for his feed at feed time. I like him very much and like I've stated, he's off of a dog I thought a lot of, so I'd love to pull him through. I'll keep everyone posted.

Thanks!

[Nut]

bro these dogs keep fighting till death dont be confused by them waggin their tail.
nazi skinny is dangerous, if nothing has changed.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Looked it up Jack. Symptoms are very similar. Treatment includes heavy anti-inflammatory therapy, like Dex as the main cause is inflammation of the intestinal lining. Says you can't cure it, but manage it. I'm going to give it a go.

What do you think about getting through with the zole/tmz treatment first to diagnose the actual problem OR go ahead with the Dex.

It reads that the diet should be monitored and tailored for the condition and that may be the reason for him getting like this. Cheap kibble and so forth has been his main staple thus far. If I can just get the guy to make a turd, I think he would do very well on what I feed.

Symptoms that matched him were, diarrhea of course, severe wait loss, however - stable attitude and energy levels and greasy ass hair around his butthole.

I will keep you guys posted.

[SGC]

Here's something else I noticed. He had a couple of cuts on his ears when I got him two weeks ago. They look exactly the same. No improvement or healing process appears to be in affect. I wonder if this is indicative of anything?

That sounds like an immune system problem, those cuts should have healed up in 2 weeks...

I did a quick search and did some reading on Malabsorption, etc. I agree, this could be the problem, that or IBD or EPI or SIBO.

Merck has an excellent article --

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/digestive_system/diseases_of_the_stomach_and_intestines_in_small_an imals/malabsorption_syndromes_in_small_animals.html

An article on IBD –

http://www.halopets.com/pet-education/pet-articles/Inflammatory-Bowel-Disease-in-Dogs.html

A simpler breakdown on Malabsorption, IBD, and SIBO –

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/malabsorption-bacterial-overgrowth-in-dogs/838

It also could be EPI, this is a helpful page –

http://www.globalspan.net/epi.htm

Reading over that last page, it sounds a lot like this dog’s symptoms. I will ask a friend who studies nutrition and see if they have any thoughts. If I find anything else useful, I’ll post it.

There is tons of info on line, and I think you now have a start in the right direction. Poor dog, I hope you can get him better. Please do keep us updated.

[Officially Retired]

Looked it up Jack. Symptoms are very similar. Treatment includes heavy anti-inflammatory therapy, like Dex as the main cause is inflammation of the intestinal lining. Says you can't cure it, but manage it. I'm going to give it a go.
What do you think about getting through with the zole/tmz treatment first to diagnose the actual problem OR go ahead with the Dex.
It reads that the diet should be monitored and tailored for the condition and that may be the reason for him getting like this. Cheap kibble and so forth has been his main staple thus far. If I can just get the guy to make a turd, I think he would do very well on what I feed.
Symptoms that matched him were, diarrhea of course, severe wait loss, however - stable attitude and energy levels and greasy ass hair around his butthole.
I will keep you guys posted.


I would not give dex to any dog long-term cortico-steroid therapy without a vet being involved, for one to confirm the diagnosis, for two because longterm cortico-steroid therapy is serious business and needs to be dosed/administered professionally, and not by layman guesswork. Prednisone will probably be used, but those decisions are beyond your (or my) expertise.

Good luck,

Jack

[Nut]

Not give dex to a dog with diarrhea. Man..... u know your dog will lose loads of water while most already have some form of dehydration.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Guys, I appreciate all the helpful advice, suggestions and research. This is what makes this site so great. This is information we can all benefit from.

I'm a real dumbass. I bring this shit on myself. The real reason I took this dog on, is b/c I saw him in his current state of health and thought I could help. By all means, I'm trying and we'll see how it goes, but I took this dog on 100% as a "learning experience". Gluten for punishment I guess....LOL!

[waccamaw]

Did you find out what was wrong with the dog?

[No Quarter Kennel]

Update
Run all the worming protocols through the dog. Zole/TMZ, Fenben/Pyrantel, etc.
No change.
I hit him with Dex for two days.
Been on predinsone since then, 4th day today.

He has mashed potatoes shit PILES now. Not the real runny pancake batter that just spread out all over. This isn't what we want, but man, it's an improvement.
When reading about the malabsorption problem, I noticed it said some blood at times. He has a little bit of blood in his stool ever now and then.

With the way he is responding and from what I see and read, I think this is what his problem is. I'm going to continue on with the prednisone as long as I get positive to more positive results.

I truly appreciate everyone's help on this situation. JACK - many thanks for simply mentioning this disorder and I doubt I would've found as quickly as I did here on this board. This is a class act board.

I'll keep dicking with this situation and I'll keep all you guys posted so we can all learn something - hopefully.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Gone back thin today.
We going to the vet either today, or tomorrow.
Unbelievable how good this dog's appetite and behavior is with the way he looks.

[SGC]

Best of luck at the vet, I hope they have some answers for you.

From what I read about the malabsorption issues is that it could be several different types and that it is probably not curable, only maybe manageable. I have not heard of many bulldogs with this problem , it is usually other breeds.

If a dog can’t digest its food, then they cannot get any nutritional value from it and it goes right thru them. Even with enzymes or probiotics added, it is not a cure. Not a very good future for this dog if that is what is wrong…

[No Quarter Kennel]

Exactly SGC.
Most mind blowing thing about this dog is his spirit and his appetite. Eats like a damn horse man.

[Nut]

do you let him eat small portions?

i would be hungry to when im so skinny.

[gigam]

Does anyone know what the outcome was to this tread?....

[Officially Retired]

Does anyone know what the outcome was to this tread?....

Second that

[kid]

yep

[Buckgator]

There is a drug called Cholestryramine for oral suspension that was a heart drug for people with congestive heart disease/high blood pressure and all that jazz. The drug failed in that aspect but one of the side effects was it made people super constipated and worked with people with inflamed intestines and such. Seems to stiffen the south forty so might work with a dog with NQK situation.

[sam i am]

Old thread but curious about the outcome?!?