View Full Version : raw diet and twisted paws
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 10:07 AM
Jack,
I don't know why my 5 month old pit bull's started to have twisted paws when I switch her from kibbles to raw. I watched your videos of your raw feeding diet for pups and provided everything you suggested on your video for my puppy's raw diet and I don't know why her paws still end up twisted outward. For her raw diet I give her a chicken quarter leg(with the bone), one soft boiled egg, yogurt, chicken heart, liver & gizzard, beef tripe and intestines, salmon oil, and a puppy multi-vitamin pill. She is kept outside in a above pen where she gets plenty of sunlight. She has a good insulated house full of straws to sleep in and I let her out everyday to play. What do you think I am doing wrong? Can it have been that I'm giving her too much to eat or too much yogurt, oil, etc? Her paws was straight when she was on kibbles but I hate feeding her kibbles because her stools aren't as pleasant to clean as if I were to feed her raw.*
*Note: I live up north where the temperature gets to -40° so I feed my dogs a little bit more food than normal.
*This is the vitamin tablet that I'm giving to my pup.
http://m.gnc.com/GNC-Pets-Ultra-Mega-Multivitamin-Plus-for-Puppies-Beef-Flavor/product.jsp?productId=4448120
http://i.imgur.com/XhmINqG.jpg
Maybe it's a lack of calcium in her diet?
scratchin dog
02-14-2014, 11:22 AM
That is called carpus valgus, also known as east/ west feet. It can be caused by an injury but is most likely a genetic defect. It may correct itself in time when his chest develops more. Try to keep her off smooth hard surfaces like concrete or wood.
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 11:56 AM
Maybe it's a lack of calcium in her diet?
I don't believe it's a lack of calcium. As I stated above I give her yogurt and a whole soft boiled egg...and plus the multi-vitamin tablet. I'm tthinking the problem could be that I'm giving her too much calcium? :/
it has nothing to do with your feed. if you provided everything that jack had suggested then he must have had allot of dogs with twisted paws. i agree with scratchin dog
No Quarter Kennel
02-14-2014, 12:06 PM
What Scratch Dog said
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 12:25 PM
That is called carpus valgus, also known as east/ west feet. It can be caused by an injury but is most likely a genetic defect. It may correct itself in time when his chest develops more. Try to keep her off smooth hard surfaces like concrete or wood.
My pup's paws looks to be similar to carpus valgus...but I don't think her paws was injured or it's a genetic defect. As I stated, her paws/legs were perfectly straight when she was fed kibbles. I just switched her to raw last month and her paws are getting more and more twisted as the day goes by. I don't believe it's the surface that she's on too. As I know many people that keeps their pup's on wooden above ground pen and they have no issues. I'm confident that her paws will straighten back now that she's back on kibbles but I hate to clean up kibble stools as it is super stinky and easily gets smeared all over the place. I honestly think that I'm either missing something special in the raw diet or have too much of something in the raw diet. I've done a lot of research on it online but nothing relevant so far. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions.
Anyone that has had similar case please share.
I don't believe it's a lack of calcium. As I stated above I give her yogurt and a whole soft boiled egg...and plus the multi-vitamin tablet. I'm tthinking the problem could be that I'm giving her too much calcium? :/
I had 1 who's front paws turned outward, added a little extra calcium and it went away,
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 01:16 PM
I had 1 who's front paws turned outward, added a little extra calcium and it went away,
What did you add for the calcium source?
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 01:22 PM
Before she was on raw diet @4 month old. Just to rule out genetic defect.
http://i.imgur.com/gak7inx.jpg
I think it was called sure grow 100. If I'm correct
Nice looking pup you have
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 02:29 PM
I think it was called sure grow 100. If I'm correct
Nice looking pup you have
Thanks! Besides the twisted paws she is an amazing animal and I love her very much!
scratchin dog
02-14-2014, 04:21 PM
Before she was on raw diet @4 month old. Just to rule out genetic defect.
http://i.imgur.com/gak7inx.jpg
You cant rule out a genetic defect because this defect can happen at any point while the dog is still growing. They dont have to be born with it.
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 06:41 PM
You cant rule out a genetic defect because this defect can happen at any point while the dog is still growing. They dont have to be born with it.
You're right. Genetic defect can't be ruled out completely. I guess I just have a strong feeling it's not genetic defect. Both the sire and dam don't have twisted paws. Also I posted not too long ago the littermate brother to this female who I also was feeding raw and his legs became crooked but instead of to the right or left it was crooked forward making the paws very flat. My friend decided he wanted to keep that male puppy and took him back. The male puppy was put on kibbles and his paws are now straight again. This is why I'm concluding that I'm doing something wrong with the raw feeding. Even though I'm providing all the stuff Jack suggested in his videos maybe I'm giving too much of something or not enough of something.
Officially Retired
02-14-2014, 08:54 PM
it has nothing to do with your feed. if you provided everything that jack had suggested then he must have had allot of dogs with twisted paws. i agree with scratchin dog
This is true.
One of the traits my dogs are actually known for is AWESOME, STURDY paws, feet, very "tight" and well-formed.
I have always noticed sloppy paws/feet in many other bloodlines ... not just east/west feet ... but splayed toes, etc.
Like anyone, I may get an occasional splayed toes, but never feet that look like that.
This is the dog I have now ... and I have posted thousands of photos in the past ...
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000222_04.jpg
A person can do a search Vise-Grip as the breeder and take a long look at a lot of raw-fed dogs of mine that do NOT have this problem.
Officially Retired
02-14-2014, 08:59 PM
You're right. Genetic defect can't be ruled out completely. I guess I just have a strong feeling it's not genetic defect. Both the sire and dam don't have twisted paws. Also I posted not too long ago the littermate brother to this female who I also was feeding raw and his legs became crooked but instead of to the right or left it was crooked forward making the paws very flat. My friend decided he wanted to keep that male puppy and took him back. The male puppy was put on kibbles and his paws are now straight again. This is why I'm concluding that I'm doing something wrong with the raw feeding. Even though I'm providing all the stuff Jack suggested in his videos maybe I'm giving too much of something or not enough of something.
I have a strong feeling it is genetic.
I haven't seen the sire/dam to your dog, but most dogs are NOT very athletic IMO.
I don't like the stances and structure of most dogs, quite frankly: they're slow, sloppy palookas next to mine generally ... heavy on their feet while mine are light on theirs ... so and I am very particular about "feet" ... and believe me when I tell you my dogs do not have any problems in that regard.
No disrespect to you, no disrespect to your pup, but that is NOT being caused by a nutritional deficiency.
Your pup is actually a little fat IMO, but as to what's causing those "caved-in" front paws ... it may be overfeeding, it may be an awkward growth spurt, it may be a genetic defect ... but it is not being cause by eating the exact diet I have fed to literally HUNDREDS of pups without a problem.
Jack
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 10:44 PM
I have a strong feeling it is genetic.
I haven't seen the sire/dam to your dog, but most dogs are NOT very athletic IMO.
I don't like the stances and structure of most dogs, quite frankly: they're slow, sloppy palookas next to mine generally ... heavy on their feet while mine are light on theirs ... so and I am very particular about "feet" ... and believe me when I tell you my dogs do not have any problems in that regard.
No disrespect to you, no disrespect to your pup, but that is NOT being caused by a nutritional deficiency.
Your pup is actually a little fat IMO, but as to what's causing those "caved-in" front paws ... it may be overfeeding, it may be an awkward growth spurt, it may be a genetic defect ... but it is not being cause by eating the exact diet I have fed to literally HUNDREDS of pups without a problem.
Jack
Thanks for your input Jack. I really appreciate it. I was thinking maybe I'm over feeding her too. I still strongly don't think it's a genetic defect because her sire and dam including all her litter mates has straight paws. She too has straight paws when I first got her. I believe I over fed her. I'll cut down on her food and see if that helps. Thanks again. :)
Pit Bull Committed
02-14-2014, 10:54 PM
This is true.
One of the traits my dogs are actually known for is AWESOME, STURDY paws, feet, very "tight" and well-formed.
I have always noticed sloppy paws/feet in many other bloodlines ... not just east/west feet ... but splayed toes, etc.
Like anyone, I may get an occasional splayed toes, but never feet that look like that.
This is the dog I have now ... and I have posted thousands of photos in the past ...
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000222_04.jpg
A person can do a search Vise-Grip as the breeder and take a long look at a lot of raw-fed dogs of mine that do NOT have this problem.
Thanks for sharing Jack! Your dog there looks awesome! I agree with you that particular bloodlines has better feet structure than others. I guess the bloodline I have here are more prone to feet/paws structure deformity if not fed correctly plus proper care and housing. I am still quite new with dogs and I guess I still have a lot to see and learn in the future. Thanks everyone!
That’s a very nice pup.
Some excellent suggestions on here. All I can add is maybe try giving her some Vitamin D which is very good for their bones, it might help and certainly can’t hurt. We all need Vitamin D, and in winter when there is so much less sun light, it is a helpful supplement for pups, and for people too.
Another source of calcium is ground up egg shells. But if she’s eating chicken quarters, she is getting enough calcium from those bones.
If her paws are straighter on kibble, would it help to feed her kibble for one of her meals?
Pit Bull Committed
02-15-2014, 01:32 PM
That’s a very nice pup.
Some excellent suggestions on here. All I can add is maybe try giving her some Vitamin D which is very good for their bones, it might help and certainly can’t hurt. We all need Vitamin D, and in winter when there is so much less sun light, it is a helpful supplement for pups, and for people too.
Another source of calcium is ground up egg shells. But if she’s eating chicken quarters, she is getting enough calcium from those bones.
If her paws are straighter on kibble, would it help to feed her kibble for one of her meals?
Thanks for your input. I'm going to keep her on kibbles for a while and reduce the amount of feed I'm giving her. Hopefully the weather warms up too so she doesn't need to be as thick.
Pit Bull Committed
03-29-2014, 06:55 AM
Alright, I just want to come back and share what I found out. So it was genetic like Scratchin Dog said and not my raw diet. Just went back to check out her littermates and all of them has east & west paws. I'm glad to know that it wasn't the raw diet. :) But since it's a genetic issue I have a whole different problem to solve. Thanks again everyone!
Officially Retired
03-30-2014, 06:40 AM
Alright, I just want to come back and share what I found out. So it was genetic like Scratchin Dog said and not my raw diet. Just went back to check out her littermates and all of them has east & west paws. I'm glad to know that it wasn't the raw diet. :) But since it's a genetic issue I have a whole different problem to solve. Thanks again everyone!
Just be sure you give the dog a fair shake.
Gr Ch Junior (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=9955) had some pretty shitty-looking feet also (hell, he was just an ugly-ass dog all over), but that didn't stop him from being game and tough as hell ... nor from whipping 6 dogs with better conformation than he had.
Too many people want to judge their pups every step of the way ... rather than just enjoy them :idea:
So just enjoy your pup and do YOUR best job with raising him. Sure, good conformation is important (or can be), but there are plenty of good-looking, athletic dogs that are rank curs too.
Don't ever forget that the truest conformation to "the APBT standard" is GAMENESS and the NEVER-ENDING DESIRE TO WIN.
It is not how they look.
You can't see his gameness or spirit yet, these things are still developing, so don't worry about your pup's feet as much as you worry about feeding him well, building his confidence, and developing the bond between you both.
I have seen some fuggen ugly-ass dogs that were bad as hell ... and I have seen some absolutely beautiful dogs that weren't worth two squirts of piss ... and the most beautiful thing there is to behold in these dogs is their SPIRIT. Period.
So concentrate on developing that above all else.
Jack
.
brokeback
03-30-2014, 06:52 AM
Well said Jack!
Pit Bull Committed
03-30-2014, 10:12 PM
I agree with what you said Jack! Despite her curved paws I still love her to death! She's coming along well and has such a scary bite for a 6 month old pup. http://i.imgur.com/WCh966D.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uK2g5lq.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/NVAQDl8.jpg
waccamaw
03-31-2014, 03:47 AM
Good looking dog .give her to table spoons of cod liver oil with vita d3 every day until she is a year old .you will be pleased with the outcome ..
Pit Bull Committed
03-31-2014, 05:25 AM
Good looking dog .give her to table spoons of cod liver oil with vita d3 every day until she is a year old .you will be pleased with the outcome ..
Thanks for the advice! I know you've been around long enough to know some tricks under your sleeve. I will give it a shot buddy! By the way, what brand of COD liver oil and Vitamin d3 do you use if you don't mind sharing? Thanks again!
Officially Retired
03-31-2014, 06:20 AM
Good looking dog .give her to table spoons of cod liver oil with vita d3 every day until she is a year old .you will be pleased with the outcome ..
Thanks for the advice! I know you've been around long enough to know some tricks under your sleeve. I will give it a shot buddy! By the way, what brand of COD liver oil and Vitamin d3 do you use if you don't mind sharing? Thanks again!
I agree she is a good-looking bitch, very rugged-looking for one so young too.
As far as a brand of oil goes ... cod liver oil = cod liver oil ... the "brand name" doesn't mean a thing.
What you want to look for is how many IU of Vitamins A/D per gram the oil contains.
And where to get this oil is in your book ;)
Jack