Chicken quarter's

[AmericanDogMan]

My question:

Is 2-4% of body weight in chicken quarters ... only

with adding additional organ meat every few days a full diet.


Background:

I started feeding raw a year and half ago:

I have been switching it up between chicken quarters with RMB ( raw meaty bone ); and also feeding whole raw quail and chicken with feathers and all from local slaughterhouse with vitamin supplementation.

I know whole animals is ideal. But as a staple too a diet is chicken quarters, extra bone and guts alone, enough.

- thanks in advance

[tasoschatz]

2-4% is within my range, but I feed whole chiken about 4lb weight divided in four portions. Plus 70gr per day of liver etc. I also supplement with a few tablespoons of greek yogurt, an egg, and olive oil, every day or every other day depending on weather, dog's weight and my estimation towards body weight direction.
I do preffer the RMB diet to BARF by far as a thought of design, but I am not comfortable with having my dog chewing for eg cow bones on a daily basis, I feel it would ruin its teeth, so I feel covered with chiken bones and the egg calcium wise.

[AmericanDogMan]

2-4% is within my range, but I feed whole chiken about 4lb weight divided in four portions. Plus 70gr per day of liver etc. I also supplement with a few tablespoons of greek yogurt, an egg, and olive oil, every day or every other day depending on weather, dog's weight and my estimation towards body weight direction.
I do preffer the RMB diet to BARF by far as a thought of design, but I am not comfortable with having my dog chewing for eg cow bones on a daily basis, I feel it would ruin its teeth, so I feel covered with chiken bones and the egg calcium wise.

I agree, that make's sense to me, I try to mostly only give extra chicken bones and occasionally use lamb or beef bone.

Is chicken quarters by themselves with additional organ meat a full diet?

[Officially Retired]

I personally add a veggie mix. I know some raw feeders don't do this, but dogs *do* eat berries, grasses, etc. and I think it should be in there too.

Lotta vitamins and trace minerals in veggies that are NOT in meats ... so if you don't add veggies, you should probably be adding a multi-vitamin IMO.

Jack

[AmericanDogMan]

I personally add a veggie mix. I know some raw feeders don't do this, but dogs *do* eat berries, grasses, etc. and I think it should be in there too.

Lotta vitamins and trace minerals in veggies that are NOT in meats ... so if you don't add veggies, you should probably be adding a multi-vitamin IMO.

Jack

Cool thanks Jack,

So to be clear, while not ideal:

Chicken quarters by themselves with additional organ meat and multi-vitamin supp is a full diet ?
---------

I am going to stick with what I have been doing, I just wanted to know the most basic diet.

[tasoschatz]

I am all for adding some specific greens mostly, but since I keep my dogs inhouse and for some reason greens make them to need to empty more than once per day, I preffer the tighter ass situation, lol. It did take some time to have everybody emptying on the same time everyday according to walks, so...

[EWO]

Chicken quarters alone is not balanced but it would not be the end of the world. I use the veggie mix myself. I lean toward the whole prey version of complete small animals when I can but it is not as cost effective for me. The reason I do the veggies is I believe the guts/innards of the whole prey items have those grains/veggies. So if I am doing something other than whole prey I would like to add the veggie mix along with some oils. I also use green tripe as well. It has the enzymes that break down the stuff dogs do not break down that well. With the tripe in the veggie mix it is closer to whole prey without being whole prey. (in theory)

I am not an expert on whether the tripe's enzymes breaks down the veggie mixes to the point (based on the speed of the dog's digestive tract) it is the same as getting it from the tract of another plant eating animal but it does make me think I am doing all I can/the best that I can. That leads me to the warm fuzzies, and then I use the multi vitamin to get all the way over to the warm fuzzy feeling.

I made a post earlier about how I once fed straight meats. Any and everything. No veggies outside of a keep. No supplements outside of a keep. The meats were varied, pretty much anything found in a butcher shop/grocery store. There was no rhyme nor reason of what they got, just whatever came out of the bucket as I passed by. The dogs looked good, were active, were healthy and I was happy with what I was doing. Later I learned I was nowhere near a balance. It was free and I considered it better than bag food. With a little more knowledge back then (1991-92) I could have really took advantage of the free meats.

[Officially Retired]

Cool thanks Jack,


Sure.





So to be clear, while not ideal:
Chicken quarters by themselves with additional organ meat and multi-vitamin supp is a full diet ?


To be clear, I have no way to know.

I don't know what "additional organ meat" consists of exactly, how much, or how often, so there is no way for me to provide a definitive answer.





I am going to stick with what I have been doing, I just wanted to know the most basic diet.

What you're doing sounds okay, but I don't know the frequency you're doing anything so it's hard to say for sure.

The most basic, complete diet there is ... is whole, raw animals.
Yet even when dogs eat this in nature (rabbits, pheasant, quail, eggs, etc.), they still eat berries, grasses, a fallen apple, etc.

I personally add the veggie mix. I've done the "vitamin only" thing, with some rice, a vitamin, and some oil, but I don't like it as well.

So I have always added a veggie mix. Always have, always will.

Jack

[AmericanDogMan]

Sure.





To be clear, I have no way to know.

I don't know what "additional organ meat" consists of exactly, how much, or how often, so there is no way for me to provide a definitive answer.





What you're doing sounds okay, but I don't know the frequency you're doing anything so it's hard to say for sure.

The most basic, complete diet there is ... is whole, raw animals.
Yet even when dogs eat this in nature (rabbits, pheasant, quail, eggs, etc.), they still eat berries, grasses, a fallen apple, etc.

I personally add the veggie mix. I've done the "vitamin only" thing, with some rice, a vitamin, and some oil, but I don't like it as well.

So I have always added a veggie mix. Always have, always will.

Jack

Got it...

Well, my question was a general one. After reading the post it seems best to not look toward a most basic solution.

I like the idea of adding apple's and berries and will do so.

Complete background

What I purchase weekly

I buy 10 pound bags of chicken quarters and packs of chicken livers and turkey necks. Occasionally I purchase ground beef. I also purchase live chickens, quail and rabbit from the local slaughterhouse. Enough for half the week, have them killed but left whole (feathers fur and all). I break up each days meal into there own bags... And throw into the freezer. I also purchase vitamin paste chicken flavor.

How I feed

I rotate between chicken quarters with a handful of guts and whole raw animals

I feed right after my dinner time... I then go out feed whatever pack of food I grabbed first out of the freezer the night before and let thaw in the slop sink. I then feed each dog the appropriate amount. When I go to clean up and hose down, I tell or motion for each dog to go home and wait for me to finish, for doing so they each get a bit of vitamin paste (which they love ).

I come in wash my hands, take out enough food out of the freezer for the next day leave it in the sink and go on about my night.


Puppies get fed twice a day first thing in the morning something easy and small. Usually left over uncooked cut off fat, skin, gut bones or some meat I had my wife leave to the side when she cooked our dinner the night before. She's knows how much to leave in the bottom shelf of the fridge.

-so that sums it up.

Imma stick to this and add a apple every other day. Unless you all see something I need to add

- thanks in Advance

[AmericanDogMan]

Chicken quarters alone is not balanced but it would not be the end of the world. I use the veggie mix myself. I lean toward the whole prey version of complete small animals when I can but it is not as cost effective for me. The reason I do the veggies is I believe the guts/innards of the whole prey items have those grains/veggies. So if I am doing something other than whole prey I would like to add the veggie mix along with some oils. I also use green tripe as well. It has the enzymes that break down the stuff dogs do not break down that well. With the tripe in the veggie mix it is closer to whole prey without being whole prey. (in theory)

I am not an expert on whether the tripe's enzymes breaks down the veggie mixes to the point (based on the speed of the dog's digestive tract) it is the same as getting it from the tract of another plant eating animal but it does make me think I am doing all I can/the best that I can. That leads me to the warm fuzzies, and then I use the multi vitamin to get all the way over to the warm fuzzy feeling.

I made a post earlier about how I once fed straight meats. Any and everything. No veggies outside of a keep. No supplements outside of a keep. The meats were varied, pretty much anything found in a butcher shop/grocery store. There was no rhyme nor reason of what they got, just whatever came out of the bucket as I passed by. The dogs looked good, were active, were healthy and I was happy with what I was doing. Later I learned I was nowhere near a balance. It was free and I considered it better than bag food. With a little more knowledge back then (1991-92) I could have really took advantage of the free meats.

Thanks EWO,

Yes I am convinced I should be adding/giving a little handful (not a staple but little), side green salad fruit veggie oil mix in a separate bucket. I'm on top of it.

[EWO]

My plan is not perfect by any stretch. It has evolved over time. Although I believe the raw plan is much better I can't really say I saw the detriment of feeding from a bag. I am in that category of "what could have been". The dogs I fed bag food to may have lived another year, maybe produced another few years and been in better health, maybe. I have been lucky to have never had a pit dog with food allergies, or needed a more sensitive type feed.

I believe raw is better for no more reason than it is closer to what the dog would eat in the wild, especially in comparison to the bag. With that said, there needs to be balance, which is what they get in nature. And even then I use the multivitamin just because my plan is not one of the high end raw feedings. I mix things up and some days there is no veggie mix, just meats.

After that my next reasoning would be the dogs seem to stay closer to a natural weight. And that may just be my opinion but it sure seems that way. Due to the ease of digestion/assimilation there is less cleanup, but for me less cleanup is a lesser point compared to the dog carrying less waste during the day/. (if that makes sense).

Sorry for the babbling. EWO

[Black Hand]

I believe dogs being fed a dry or dehydrated food cause the body to retain more water. The body naturally gets water from food and assists in the digestion of the food. So a food with more water makes for your body not retaining as much. The body knows it's own needs and will compensate for things it's
Lacking in diet, even water.

[SGC]

A short little article on supplementing raw food --

http://www.bravorawdiet.com/supplements.html

With feeding mostly chicken quarters, I would add salmon oil every day and the multi vitamin and veggie mix every couple of days, and maybe some plain yogurt, an egg, and apple cider vinegar too.

[AmericanDogMan]

A short little article on supplementing raw food --

http://www.bravorawdiet.com/supplements.html

With feeding mostly chicken quarters, I would add salmon oil every day and the multi vitamin and veggie mix every couple of days, and maybe some plain yogurt, an egg, and apple cider vinegar too.

This is a good read... Thanks

[drz]

Best thing I ever bought for myself and for handling the dogs greens/veggies.

http://www.nutribullet.com/

[mitchm]

Best thing I ever bought for myself and for handling the dogs greens/veggies.

http://www.nutribullet.com/

Nice, I was looking at juicers yesterday and held off and it looks like I'll go with this product, should save space and make clean up easy.

[Stella]

What I do is feed straight up raw and I mix it up a bit day to day......in that basic meal lets say chicken day,I add in yogurt,1egg soft boiled,some organ meat and to make sure they get a balanced meal I supplement with Natures Variety Instinct Raw.No matter the day I throw a little of that in there....Seems to work.The Vet is shocked at my dogs "look" and the results.

[drz]

Nice, I was looking at juicers yesterday and held off and it looks like I'll go with this product, should save space and make clean up easy.

My daily mix with the nutribullet I do for myself is blueberries, apple, carrots, broccoli and kale. I save some of this for the dogs every other day.

[GAMEWARDEN]

Chicken quarters alone is not balanced but it would not be the end of the world. I use the veggie mix myself. I lean toward the whole prey version of complete small animals when I can but it is not as cost effective for me. The reason I do the veggies is I believe the guts/innards of the whole prey items have those grains/veggies. So if I am doing something other than whole prey I would like to add the veggie mix along with some oils. I also use green tripe as well. It has the enzymes that break down the stuff dogs do not break down that well. With the tripe in the veggie mix it is closer to whole prey without being whole prey. (in theory)

I am not an expert on whether the tripe's enzymes breaks down the veggie mixes to the point (based on the speed of the dog's digestive tract) it is the same as getting it from the tract of another plant eating animal but it does make me think I am doing all I can/the best that I can. That leads me to the warm fuzzies, and then I use the multi vitamin to get all the way over to the warm fuzzy feeling.

I made a post earlier about how I once fed straight meats. Any and everything. No veggies outside of a keep. No supplements outside of a keep. The meats were varied, pretty much anything found in a butcher shop/grocery store. There was no rhyme nor reason of what they got, just whatever came out of the bucket as I passed by. The dogs looked good, were active, were healthy and I was happy with what I was doing. Later I learned I was nowhere near a balance. It was free and I considered it better than bag food. With a little more knowledge back then (1991-92) I could have really took advantage of the free meats.

Don't give away my secret! Lol I've been feeding green tripe for a long time. My wife calls it "zoo food" because of the smell. But that stuff has just about everything your dog needs. It's fairly expensive in my area but I spare no expense when it comes to my hounds.
I also feed fruit and veggies mix I purée and put 2heaping tablespoons in with feed a couple times a week. Or I use it a few hours prior to a good work out with salmon or wheat germ oil and a splash of water.

[EWO]

Sorry for letting the cat out of the bag. I have been using it for a number of years. The smell is horrific, bad enough in the cans but buy a frozen chub and let it thaw. It would pretty much gag a maggot. That bad. For whatever reason, the dogs love it. They rip thru it like nothing else I have seen. I believe you could hide the taste of battery acid as far as the dogs are concerned. (just kidding). EWO

[GAMEWARDEN]

You got that right. God awful smell.
I feed the frozen kind not canned. It's about $1.60lb in my area. I usually add about a half lb to the feed a few times a week. I have been doing this for a long time myself. I consider it a must in my dogs diet!

[cdj396]

do youall cook the leg quarter's and what about the bones thanks tj

[GAMEWARDEN]

I only cook the eggs(soft boil) and I rinse and steam my veggies before I purée them. Everything else is fed raw

[Officially Retired]

Best thing I ever bought for myself and for handling the dogs greens/veggies.
http://www.nutribullet.com/

That is a pretty handy contraption, DRZ.

I have a juicer, and a mixer, both of which served me well with a larger group of dogs ... but none so handy for my one dog as that which you posted :-bd

Jack

[Officially Retired]

do youall cook the leg quarter's and what about the bones thanks tj

:-t

Hi TJ;

Keep in mind, if you cook the food then it's no longer raw :idea:

[Officially Retired]

I only cook the eggs(soft boil) and I rinse and steam my veggies before I purée them. Everything else is fed raw

Now, with what I said above, some food items are better-served partially cooked ... and soft-boiled eggs are the most nutritious way in which to eat eggs, while lightly-cooking/steaming vegetables assists with the digestion there too.

[cdj396]

ok Jack but what a bout the bones was told never to give chicken bones

[AmericanDogMan]

ok Jack but what a bout the bones was told never to give chicken bones



Hi TJ...

I was told and have not and will never ever give cooked chicken bones to a dog.

But you can give the raw chicken bone. Cooked chicken bones can splinter and cut the stomache lining. Raw breaks down and is much more brittle.

[drz]

That is a pretty handy contraption, DRZ.

I have a juicer, and a mixer, both of which served me well with a larger group of dogs ... but none so handy for my one dog as that which you posted :-bd

Jack

No prob...your welcome. Im surprised many haven't seen this great product...infomercials have been on this product for 2+ years if I recall correctly. Best thing about it is that it blends everything including the skins, and more pureed compared to a regular blender.

[Officially Retired]

ok Jack but what a bout the bones was told never to give chicken bones


Hi TJ...

I was told and have not and will never ever give cooked chicken bones to a dog.

But you can give the raw chicken bone. Cooked chicken bones can splinter and cut the stomache lining. Raw breaks down and is much more brittle. :-t


Hi TJ;

What American Dogman said is almost right.

When you cook the chicken, that is when you make the bones much more brittle ... cooking hardens and therefore weaponizes the bone in the chicken, which can perforate the intestine.

By contrast, when the chicken is left raw, the bone inside is softer, and more supple (not brittle), and is therefore easier to digest.

It is essentially like the difference between natural, soft wood and petrified wood. Natural, soft wood is easier to break down whereas petrified wood is now like rock.

BOTTOM LINE: Raw chicken bones are softer, and much easier for the dog to break down, and therefore more digestible.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

No prob...your welcome. Im surprised many haven't seen this great product...infomercials have been on this product for 2+ years if I recall correctly. Best thing about it is that it blends everything including the skins, and more pureed compared to a regular blender.

I never watch TV :lol:

[AmericanDogMan]

Hi TJ;

What American Dogman said is almost right.

When you cook the chicken, that is when you make the bones much more brittle ... cooking hardens and therefore weaponizes the bone in the chicken, which can perforate the intestine.

By contrast, when the chicken is left raw, the bone inside is softer, and more supple (not brittle), and is therefore easier to digest.

It is essentially like the difference between natural, soft wood and petrified wood. Natural, soft wood is easier to break down whereas petrified wood is now like rock.

BOTTOM LINE: Raw chicken bones are softer, and much easier for the dog to break down, and therefore more digestible.

Jack

Forgiveness for my misstatement and Thanks Jack for correcting and clarifying.

I think what I was trying to say is that raw bone is easier to break and cooked bone could cut a dog's stomache lining.

Never give a dog cooked bone.

Only give them raw.

[cdj396]

thanks for the infor