SPLIT LITTERS??? ( 2 SIRES)

[BROWNING]

ALL ARE WELCOME...I have looked into this and it all says that show competitors do this on a regular basis to speed up which STUD will give them the best show dogs. Not having to wait another 6 months to make the other breeding to the other Stud.

Now to have 2 fathers n a litter, for ex. bred her on the 10th day and then on the 16th day, hoping to catch the eggs that the 1st breeding did not find. I also know that the sperm stays alive for X amount of days, but it still seems to work.

Would like some opinions and Jack your say on the matter, or if anyone has intentially done this with sucess

REASON: Is to get a Stud or Brood with a few and then get a cross for your possible combat dogs, Hope this makes sence to ya'll

[skipper]

Dual sired litter can absolutely be done. I've seen it happen. Here's the problem as i see it, most of the times the female will impregnate one of the studs. And the litter will be from one of the sires. Especially is the breedings are done seperatly. What i would do is collect the 2 males at the same time and do Ai. Good luck with it and keep us posted on the progress.

[Wise]

I often times wondered why this doesn't occur more frequently, especially with the abiilty to dna test and all. Plus when you find a stud that may or may not be around next heat for whatever reason. I plan on trying it one day, whats the worst that can happen...

[Officially Retired]

I once made this breeding (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_breedingprofile.php?breeding_id=3497) and this breeding (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_breedingprofile.php?breeding_id=691) at the same time (Gr Ch Sparky x Screamer and Ch Stormbringer to Screamer).

The result?

0 Stormbringer pups
1 Gr Ch Sparky pup

I later learned that 2 different loads of sperm were antagonistic to each other (each trying to "kill" each other).

That, plus the fact both dogs were almost sterile, got me 1 pup out of 2 studs.

I never did a DNA, because 1) my pup was black, so it was genetically-impossible for it to be a Stormbringer pup, and 2) she was a clone of Gr Ch Sparky, and only a blind man couldn't see that.

Jack

[Wise]

If a few eggs get fertilized on the first stick with the first male then a day or two later more eggs released get fertilized by the second stud so as long as they're bred on separate days I don't see the fertilized eggs being antagonistic...but like any regular breeding the bottom line is either it'll work or it won't.

[tasoschatz]

I think that all this sperm antagonistic situation leads to the survival of only the fittest swimmers, actually the whole female system acts aggressive whenever sperm enters to help the natural selection of the the carriers of the best genes.

[AmberLamps]

I think that all this sperm antagonistic situation leads to the survival of only the fittest swimmers, actually the whole female system acts aggressive whenever sperm enters to help the natural selection of the the carriers of the best genes.

Interesting!

The female system makes sure only the healthy, fittest and perfectly formed sperm get to reach the egg; which makes me question frozen semen breedings.

If frozen semen is thawed and placed in direct contact with the eggs, without the sperm first having to go through the obstacle course of the female reproductive system in order to find the healthiest, perfectly formed sperm. If we're dumping all the deformed, unhealthy sperm directly onto the eggs, (that would otherwise have never reached the eggs through a natural breeding) creating dogs from junk sperm, are we getting the same quality of dogs from frozen semen breedings that we would a natural breeding?

Or is it just the DNA that matters?

Sorry to go off topic, but i'v often wondered about this.

[BROWNING]

Interesting!

The female system makes sure only the healthy, fittest and perfectly formed sperm get to reach the egg; which makes me question frozen semen breedings.

If frozen semen is thawed and placed in direct contact with the eggs, without the sperm first having to go through the obstacle course of the female reproductive system in order to find the healthiest, perfectly formed sperm. If we're dumping all the deformed, unhealthy sperm directly onto the eggs, (that would otherwise have never reached the eggs through a natural breeding) creating dogs from junk sperm, are we getting the same quality of dogs from frozen semen breedings that we would a natural breeding?

Or is it just the DNA that matters?

Sorry to go off topic, but i'v often wondered about this.

Good read...I have never thought of using ANYONE's "Frozen Sperm' normally they have taken the time & money of the best in the line and they will 99% of the time NEVER re-produce themselves. It's hard enough to get a breeding of the same with LIVE dogs to give you that Ace, what's the odds of Sperm being in some bank for 15-25 yrs. Sounds good, but I just don't see it. JMO

[FrostyPaws]

Semen can live within the female for some days, so with that thought in mind, using a new stud the next breeding should still produce the antagonistic reaction such as Jack stated.

[FrostyPaws]

I've never used frozen semen, and I've never had any of my dogs frozen. That being said, there have been plenty of dogs frozen that weren't the best of the line. I can think of a few dogs off hand that were frozen before they were taken out, only to win/lose and pass on afterwards. I do know of someone who uses frozen semen from his passed on stud, and he's had winners out of each breeding he's used the semen.

[Wise]

Interesting Frosty good to hear too, I have heard so many debates about it in both directions, but I honestly don't think it diminishes or enhances the chances of a dog being successful as most of the debates I've heard claimed. But I can't wrap my mind around the sperm consciously recognizing that there is a different type of sperm in their territory and start banging for the pooch cooch! Lol

[LEFTLANE]

Jack how'd that sparky dog turn out?

[Doc Ellis]

What do you guys think about having a female AI'd by using frozen semen from 2 dogs on the same heat? I thought I read something about a vet placing semen on eggs, would this help decrease the sperms competition?

[Officially Retired]

Jack how'd that sparky dog turn out?

She was a truly badass bitch ... unfortunately gone to waste.

Vise-Grip's Pantera (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=10879)

[gotap_d]

Interesting!

The female system makes sure only the healthy, fittest and perfectly formed sperm get to reach the egg; which makes me question frozen semen breedings.

If frozen semen is thawed and placed in direct contact with the eggs, without the sperm first having to go through the obstacle course of the female reproductive system in order to find the healthiest, perfectly formed sperm. If we're dumping all the deformed, unhealthy sperm directly onto the eggs, (that would otherwise have never reached the eggs through a natural breeding) creating dogs from junk sperm, are we getting the same quality of dogs from frozen semen breedings that we would a natural breeding?

Or is it just the DNA that matters?

Sorry to go off topic, but i'v often wondered about this.

Is this the reason AI breedings are looked down upon in the Race Horse circles?

[ragedog10]

Jack you might wanna change the pic on Vise-Grips Anthrax

[Johan]

Interesting Frosty good to hear too, I have heard so many debates about it in both directions, but I honestly don't think it diminishes or enhances the chances of a dog being successful as most of the debates I've heard claimed. But I can't wrap my mind around the sperm consciously recognizing that there is a different type of sperm in their territory and start banging for the pooch cooch! Lol

Its the same whit humans. There is studies done on humans that shows that sperms disables the swimming ability on the other part.