Sticking with the (HAYMAKER) redboy dogs

[GIGGS]

We still have a long way to go but this is my personal preference....

I prefer HAYMAKER over the BOOMER bred Redboy dogs, any day.


Feel free to comment on your view of each strain.
Redboy dogs aren't going anywhere.....

[loot]

Nice breeding.

[EWO]

In the bottom and not all Red Boy, I like the Tant's Bruiser dog. He produced a fair number of good dogs. I saw/had a couple out of Bruiser to Hooker Red bred dogs, crossed back to Mayday type stuff. Really game, durable dogs.

I prefer the Mims versions myself, but going to get a bitch tomorrow that is out of a Holland bred dog, Fleetwood to Jabbar Box. Bred back to the Mims Redboy/Snooty. She is a game a talented 1XW winning bitch that just loves to bite....stuff she should, and stuff she shouldn't.

There are so many strains of the Red Boy dogs, maybe more so than any other lines, (no facts, just off the top of my head) and I am sure there are good ones within each. Like the other post I have tried a lot of them and as far as consistency in what I like to see I always end up in favor of the Mims version(s).

I know a guy who has long time success blending all the ones that do what he likes. If he sees one with the traits he likes he infuses it into what he is doing. Over the years his dogs have evolved into heavy Red Boy dogs, but from varying strains. Sometimes the dogs he brings in has some outs and (referring to the reading the pedigree poll) the papers can look a little scattered. I would say 3/4 or more of the lines lead back to Red Boy on paper, but a much higher percentage in knowing the dogs he is working with.

Nicely bred pups. Just form personal experiences I like the bottom half a little more than the top half. Good luck. EWO

[GIGGS]

Nice breeding.

Thanks.
We are trying to make the mother (Hail Mary) POR or R.O.M.
That's not a simple statement to make, but we're willing to put the work in!

[GIGGS]

I prefer the Mims versions myself, but going to get a bitch tomorrow that is out of a Holland bred dog, Fleetwood to Jabbar Box. Bred back to the Mims Redboy/Snooty. She is a game a talented 1XW winning bitch that just loves to bite....stuff she should, and stuff she shouldn't.

Nicely bred pups. Just form personal experiences I like the bottom half a little more than the top half. Good luck. EWO

We've had success with the bottom half and intend to keep working with it. The vision was to add an Eli outcross without losing too much of the Haymaker strain. Just so happens that Gottie 2xW fit the bill.

Now, with your preference for the Mims blood, that's where we will disagree. No disrespect to C. Mims and the foundation started by his dad and what he carried on.
The reason for my point of view is that I've seen a few from years ago. They were VERY talented like the female you mentioned, but they were not going the distance. I'm not asking you, I'm telling you!
So, as a competitor, those are not the type I want to put in a []. Many claim they know how to work with it/breed it and how great what they have has been to them, but again, I'm speaking as a person who is not just breeding for papers or to keep around the yard for bragging rights.

My friends kept a few of it around and continued to breed some and finally got this female.
Ch. Splash -

Besides the female above, the only other (HEAVY) Mims bred redboy dog, who made any noise lately is also a champion.
Ch. Onyx -

So amongst all the Mims bred redboy dogs that are still around and claim to be active, it's a long stretch to hear about a good one every 5 years or more.
Maybe the silent type will allege that they have the secret weapons or those we don't know about, but I know my people started a relationship with Mims from back in the 90's (20 years ago) and have not slept on the bloodline and those worthy of mentioning. So if they have nothing more to offer me as far as noteworthy progress that those dogs have made, I'm not inclined to add any to my program.

Not knocking what you have (EWO), I'm just stating why I am against it. That way, you don't have to ask and you should see that my opinion is not based on biases formed from old partners or a dog we lost to. Many speak from that aspect and that's not the way a dogman should offer a honest opinion.

I've owned C'ham dogs also and like those even more!

[EWO]

Everyone has there preferences. I have no problem with what another wishes to own. None at all. I simply offered my opinion on the pedigree you posted. I personally like the bottom half better than the top. No offense taken.

I believe the Splash bitch has three other winning littermates as well. I will have to double check but I believe it is the bitch I am thinking of. Around here there is Mims Ch. Charlie 4XW (Spiffy/Lucky), Ch. Bo (Punch/Rainbow), Ch. Skull 4XW (Spiffy/Lucky/Lucious), Dolly 2XW (Spiffy/Lucky), and numerous dogs with wins that the base is a Mims dog with a little out. Just too many to list them all. A lot like the Haymaker dog.

Did Haymaker make ROM by being bred to other Holland hounds, or the out crosses? I believe the latter is the answer. I believe the mixes have out performed the 'family' over time.

And I most certainly agree your last paragraph. The other strains of Red Boy dogs I have experienced. personally experienced, did not do the things I liked. The inbred Deacon dogs I had could bite shit in half but quit on top. The Holland dogs straight were either never looked at or did not do enough to compete and made their way to the brood pen. The best Holland dogs I have see were crossed with Bakari's Ch. Tyrone dog and with the Deloach bred dogs. Killers in that mix. When Ch. Charlie (Spiffy/Lucky) made Ch. it was on a Holland Red Boy/Buck bred dog. That dog was as game as anything I have ever seen but was just outclassed. I tried to buy him to save him. I thought that much of his performance.

Every body gets to feed what they want. As it should be. Everyone is entitle to their opinion. As it should be. I believe everyone should be entitled to offer their opinion. What I offered up was personal, hands on experience. I did not read it elsewhere and read it here. I did not read a match report and make comments. All based on what I have seen. Every one has their own preferences. EWO



And I most definitely agree with your last paragraph.

[GIGGS]

EWO, thanks for your input.

I would like to know if Ch. Splash has winning littermates. Not that it will make me run out and get some, but it would be nice to know. LOL...
You are correct. Everyone gets to feed what they want and everyone is entitled to their opinion! I guess the Mims dogs I saw in that era or heard of amongst our friends, were not bred for success like those you've seen perform and made you a believer. Experience is the best teacher it appears that yours has led you to what you like, so I can't argue with that.

I myself tried my hand with a few different redboy strains and the end result for me is; the Haymaker blood is where I need to be. Aside from the C'ham dogs I've owned or been around, my success is in the bottom half of that breeding.

I took my daughter of Heavy D (redboy/ buck) and bred her to Ch. Gunner (redboy-jocko/ hell bend) and got something to write home about but not enough to stick with it.
Both mother and father were redboy crosses but I didn't get what I needed. Overall, it wasn't a bad (RBJBT) breeding but maybe if I had more time to work with them, I could have seen more out of each.
IMO, having a good outcross with the Haymaker strain can still produce great competition stock, versus, brood dogs with an out.

P.S. - Seven knew how to close it but I canceled her debut to give another female of the same size an opportunity on the big stage. So I guess the Deacon dogs do have it in them.

[EWO]

No doubts. I only post about what I have seen or personally experienced. With that said, it is not like I have seen all the Red Boy dogs of all the Red Boy strains. I am not the Red Boy expert. I have some experience with a lot of the strains but not enough to make an statement -good or bad- about an entire line or and entire family. Like I posted before some of the Holland dogs crossed with the Tyrone/Eli Hotep dogs were straight murderers. I liked what I saw.

I think the biggest issue with the Mims dogs is the blend. The dogs that were out of a straight Red Boy male to the Bolio/Snooty or Snooty/Bolio females worked best for us. I have not seen the successes with the dogs with less Red Boy than that. I know a few guys who swear by the heavier Snooty dogs.

In the bottom of the ped you posted I had dogs bred down out of Bruiser and Hooker Red to Mayday stuff and Hardcore's Chance. They were game and durable. I liked it a lot. I am not much on pedigrees but I will post the pedigree of the bitch I am going after in the morning. She is a game bitch with a lot of intensity. The top half is out of an exceptional Holland male.

I have seen a few good ones and a few I would choose not to feed. Pretty much the same with every line out there. Just stating what I have seen not posting a end-all statement on all Red Boy strains. EWO

[blood brothers]

The hollands stuff is full of pink nosed cow patched dogs.....redboy/banjo

[cdj396]

ewo will you post the ped to the female you weregoing to get thanks tj