THE BADDEST DOGS IN HISTORY

[Officially Retired]

Let's start with the bitches :)

Off the top of my head, here are the 4 winningest bitches in history:

Ken Allen's Gr Ch Tornado (10xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=9349)
Untouchable's Gr Ch Chewy (9xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=38688)
Abraham's Gr Ch Queen of Hearts (8xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=1919)
Bass' Gr Ch Molly Bee (8xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=6117)
Now, most everybody knows about Gr Ch Tornado ... as well as Gr Ch Queen of Hearts ... and a lot of people know about Bass' (Edwards') Gr Ch Molly Bee ... but how many people know about Untouchable's Ch Chewy (9xW)?
I don't know who all her opponents were, but I remember a partner of mine, Rick S., say the bitch was a freak of nature, basically strewing her opponent's guts out, and it was nasty :-O

Chewy won 3x for 3 different men, was severely undershot, and she couldn't really be conditioned as she she had bad hips. However, she was so powerful, she bit so hard, and she went in to such foul areas, that 9 opponents in a row couldn't take it and died trying, including Scratch & Stitch's Ch Reggie.

So I have 3 questions for the boardmembers here:


1) Does anyone see any RBJ in these pedigrees? :lol:

2) Has anyone actually seen any of these dogs go? And ...

3) Who do you think would win between them, if you paired them off--and why?

Would also like to know if anyone is aware of any other, legitimately badass, multi-winning bitches that should be included here?
(Yes, I know about Shady Lady (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=616), but she only won 5.) I am talking about the elite of the elite--7 wins or more. Thanks!

Comments/opinions?

Jack

[jawman]

European one http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=78348

[Officially Retired]

Nice.

But instead of hooking to PedsOnline, why don't you actually contribute something here and add her information to this database :idea:

We'd all appreciate that, I know I would, not to mention you can pull a TON more statistics off this database than that one.

Thanks,

Jack

[jawman]

Nice.

But instead of hooking to PedsOnline, why don't you actually contribute something here and add her information to this database :idea:

We'd all appreciate that, I know I would, not to mention you can pull a TON more statistics off this database than that one.

Thanks,

Jack

Next time will it be on this database
tnx
J

[EWO]

Mr. Edwards, now RIP, told me this story. I will paraphrase. Guys called and said that had one of the great Molly Bee. He passed the information to Mr. Bass. They had a bitch that was going to go into Molly Bee's mouth. Money was not right so things had to be worked out. Finally got it ironed out and things were set. Mr. Edwards had walked away from pit side when he heard, "Release your dogs", it was crowded and it took him a minute or so to work his way back. Just before he got there he said it sounded like a .22 rifle went off, a loud crack. The next thing he heard was, "It's over". The bitch did indeed go into Molly Bee's mouth and Molly Bee broke her face in half. Bit down on the muzzle and broke it completely in half. First bite, one bite, broke the muzzle in half.

Some of the first dogs I ever saw were down out of Molly Bee and Snooty. With her later being stolen there was never a lot of Molly Bee blood, some but not as much as would have been registered to her.

Like a lot of the greats, there are multiple pedigrees on Molly Bee. Mr. Edwards looked several in the eye and told them the truth. Those truths often differed, but he liked it like that. EWO

[CYJ]

EWO, I was there that day. I understood and was told through the grapevine. That Bass and Katie had a big Red Boy bitch that could take the steam out of Molly Bee. Could go mouth to mouth with Molly Bee. Do not remember the name of the big Red Boy bitch they used. Everybody knew who Molly Bee was. LOL

The match went down over in Dillon county many years ago. Was done in a no longer used, country store or maybe a jute joint. Was a big turn out and we were packed into that building like sardines in a can. LOL I was standing close to where Bass and Katie where.

It was sort of ironic because the younger well heeled dog man that bought and campaigned Molly Bee for Mr. Edwards, had the last name of Bass as well. The younger dog man was from down Georgia way. He also matched a little 29 or 30 pound bitch that came off my yard. This little bitch was a me me of Molly Bee in fighting style. Was Bass' CH Candy and had a set of teeth in her mouth that would look good in a 50 pound dog's mouth. LOL

Bass who had the Red Boy bitch stood outside the main door of the building and charge everyone a fee to see the match. It was a pretty steep fee back then that he charged and many of the Indians were complaining about it. Bass took up a good chunk of gate money that day. Seems it was $15.00 or $20.00 a head. Back then it was around $5.00 and up to maybe $10.00 tops.

During the weigh in and washing. Both Bass' and Katie were taking good side bets. Jacobs took some good ones along with some of his combine, on Molly Bee. I am pretty sure he did not bet on the Red Boy bitch.

I think Rowell may had worked the Red Boy bitch and did the handling. Not sure who handled Molly Bee, might have been Hargrove. But not 100% sure anymore on all the above mentioned musings. So will stand corrected if wrong. This event was a lot of years ago.

It went down just like Mr. Edwards said. On the get go of release your dogs. Molly Bee pile drove that Red Boy bitch before she could barely get out of it's corner. Was like a huge male lion hitting a Zebra at full running and attack force. You could her the muzzle crack and other bones as well. This Red boy bitch was screaming and hoping for some fast relief. Was no scratching anything that day. Only instant and fast death. Miss Doctor Death in black had arrived in full force. Her name was Molly Bee.

R. Bass always smoked and had a big cigar in his mouth. When Molly Bee hit that Red Boy bitch. His eyes went wide, lost the color in his face and almost swallowed that cigar. He turned and forced himself through the crowd, ran outside, jumped in his car and speed off down the road to who knows where.

Bass kept all the gate money, never honored the money on the match or any of the side bets. Bass left Katie there holding the bag. Those Pembroke Indians were mad as hell and out for blood and revenge. Some had Katie surrounded and I felt they may, were going to hurt her. Katie was very scared, broke down and started crying. Asking those men not to hurt her, that she was a mother of children with no father to help her take care of them. She was all her children had. Which was true. Katie took good care of her children and was a hard working woman.

Sure Katie honored her bets, but Bass never honored anything. Later he pulled off the same stunt, when Katie matched one of her Red Boy bitches named Mouthy into J. Johnson's Rage bitch. Was pretty well a repeat of what Molly Bee did to that other Red boy bitch. I was there that night as well. Rage got into Mouthy's guts and it was all over but the crying and the dying. Meanwhile ole Bass of Red Boy fame was hauling Arse down the road with the Gate money and never honored the money put up on the match. I can only assume Katie covered most of that.

Was not long after that Katie beat the hell out of Bass with a shovel after Bass deliberately had hurt her son Bo. When just a small child at Katie's Trailer park. Her son Bo told me about this last year when I talked with him. Bo had no love for R. E. Bass, Katie ended up with the last of the Red Boy dogs including Red Boy himself. The Red Boy dog died on Katie dog yard. Think Red Boy lived to be around 14 years old.

Not to much longer after all that Bass died. Katie was the main person along with C. Mims and a few others that really bred up and carried on what we know as the Bass Tramp Red Boy blood line today. Cheers

[Officially Retired]

Always fun to read these old tales, thanks for sharing :hatsoff:

Anyone see Ch Chewy?

[CYJ]

The baddest dogs I saw personally while in the dog game, male or female. First on the listings. (# One) would be Gr Ch Molly Bee (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=6117), never ever seen nothing like her before and after. (# two) was V. Jackson's Hank (2xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=425). ( # Three) was L. Pratt's Vindicator (2xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=). (#4 ) was the W. Kelley's Ch Willie (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=6806) dog). (#5 was J. Johnson's Gr Ch Miss Rage (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=2943)) and (#6) was the Chandler's Face (2xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=18549) bitch I later owned. (#7) was Davis' Gr Ch Boomerang (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=12). (# 8 ) Garner's Ch Dolly (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=6798). (# 9) V. Jackson's Ch Stagger Lee (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=5342) and (#10) Bass' Ch Candy (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=18614).

There are others as well. These dogs had real pit smarts, were all very hard mouth, hard charging dogs with lots of endurance. Anywhere they placed their mouth, serious damage was done to muscle/tendon and bone. Not later in the dog pull but right before your eyes in real time. Cheers


JACK'S NOTE: Hope you don't mind, CYJ, but I added links to the names you listed, so folks could see the pedigrees. Cheers back :cheers:

Ditto Jack, thanks. I needed to make one correction. I did not personally see the Garner's Dolly bitch go. Truett won one with her dam Black Beauty and one with Dolly over P. Powell both times. Last time I saw V. Jackson was when he came up this way and picked up Dolly. Took her back to Texas. He won a good match and I believe Tom Garner did as well after he bought Dolly from V. J. Was told by all that Dolly was a rough bitch that had lots of finish. Cheers

[LEFTLANE]

CYJ. I'm jealous of your memories.

[Infidel77]

I was born in the wrong era. I too love these old stories

[CYJ]

Ditto Infidel77. They appear to be good memories now and some what funny. But at the time it was all happening and going down. It was none too funny for me and those other dog men. I had made bets as well. Never got my money either. Good money back then was hard to earn and worth a whole lot more than today. LOL

When I first started out working for Ma Bell in the early 70's. They were only paying me around $85.00 a week. After some raises every six months. I soon was up to around $150.00 a week. Boy I thought I was rolling in the dough. LOL Back then $25.00 would buy a lot more groceries than today. Cheers

[skipper]

Another European bitch. Think i have a picture of her somewhere in my collection. Will add it if i can find it.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=38740

And what a great writeup CYJ. Thnx for sharing!

[Officially Retired]

Another European bitch. Think i have a picture of her somewhere in my collection. Will add it if i can find it.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=38740

And what a great writeup CYJ. Thnx for sharing!


Nice. And thank you for taking the time to enter the dog here in this database :-bd

That is a highly-inbred animal! Would love to see some pics of her when you get the chance.

Here is another great, inbred, 6xW bitch: Coy's Gr Ch BB Red (6xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3612)

[Officially Retired]

Does anyone know of the history behind M.A.D.'s Gr Ch Gabe Jr. (7xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=21759)?

Aside from the fact he"s yet another pure Carver/Eli 7xW (lol), I don't really don't know anything about the dog, and would like to, if he's really any good.

Jack

[CYJ]

The Gabe dog was well bred. To bad Mr. Mims could not keep that good family of dogs intact as bred. Seems when a good family of dogs are bred up. The well starts running dry on you. Key dogs stop producing or up and die.The dog game was a never ending process. Cheers

[brokeback]

Good posts, CYJ. Love to hear them!

[Officially Retired]

Just heard a suspicion that Gabe is a fraud ... that would explain why I never heard anything about him :lol:

The dog used to have full-page ads about him in the Journal ... and I always wondered why "who he faced" was never really discussed ... now I know :lol:

[evolutionkennels]

Just heard a suspicion that Gabe is a fraud ... that would explain why I never heard anything about him :lol:

The dog used to have full-page ads about him in the Journal ... and I always wondered why "who he faced" was never really discussed ... now I know :lol:

The father Gr. Ch. Gabe was a bad bad bad dog. In my opinion, he was poorly managed. Only successful breeding was the one with a Snooty bolio bitch that made Ch. Ghost and Ch. Yang Yang.

[evolutionkennels]

I believe it was out of a Bristol snooty bitch to a Patrick el dos bits dig. I don't remembertoo well.. Was 1999

[FrostyPaws]

Gabe Jr is a fraud. Gabe was known as The Southern Terror during his run on the circuit years ago.

[EWO]

He did for the longest. The Hard Tack/Carolina Flow dogs could arguably be right up there with the highest of percentages of game dogs produced. CM has always been a private man, and appreciated the private people around him and a lot of his dogs were never 'mentioned' in the magazines/journals. Most of the famous Mims bred dogs were advertised by others. A late night phone call to the man was far more appreciated than mention in a monthly periodical.

When bred to the Redboy studs I never seen or heard of one quitting. Some did not have all the tools to get famous with, or even show with, but you could always pack a lunch because you could count on being there.

The Gabe dog was the deal. Produced some good ones. The Gabe Jr. dog I often wondered about. It was like all of a sudden he was there. I will not discount what is out there, but I have often wondered.

Privacy is a double edged sword. I can't applaud or buy into the stories that are kept in privacy and then discount a dog I have not heard about who has a public record. I pretty much go with, "It is what it is", and let it go from there.





The Gabe dog was well bred. To bad Mr. Mims could not keep that good family of dogs intact as bred. Seems when a good family of dogs are bred up. The well starts running dry on you. Key dogs stop producing or up and die.The dog game was a never ending process. Cheers

[evolutionkennels]

Gabe Jr is a fraud. Gabe was known as The Southern Terror during his run on the circuit years ago.

Yup

[evolutionkennels]

He did for the longest. The Hard Tack/Carolina Flow dogs could arguably be right up there with the highest of percentages of game dogs produced. CM has always been a private man, and appreciated the private people around him and a lot of his dogs were never 'mentioned' in the magazines/journals. Most of the famous Mims bred dogs were advertised by others. A late night phone call to the man was far more appreciated than mention in a monthly periodical.

When bred to the Redboy studs I never seen or heard of one quitting. Some did not have all the tools to get famous with, or even show with, but you could always pack a lunch because you could count on being there.

The Gabe dog was the deal. Produced some good ones. The Gabe Jr. dog I often wondered about. It was like all of a sudden he was there. I will not discount what is out there, but I have often wondered.

Privacy is a double edged sword. I can't applaud or buy into the stories that are kept in privacy and then discount a dog I have not heard about who has a public record. I pretty much go with, "It is what it is", and let it go from there.


He certainly did, and I'm sure he still has some of it bred tight and right. I had a really really great one off dew drop and a son of fiddle foot. Was 3/4 hard tack Flo. Chewed her way out of a kennel on the highway and jumped out. She had some scrapes but got up wagging her tail as if nothing happened. She ended up stolen. I absolutely love chatting with CM. He was one of my first mentors and never told me wrong. I love his dogs as well. The redboy stuff, the Snooty stuff, the cremator stuff, and the Carolina Flo stuff. ALL of it has survived the test of time. I'd give my left nut for a pure redboy bitch from him. As I know as honestof a man as he is, tthey'll be no question marks on the pedigree or quality of the bitch.

[Wsk]

How bout these two.

gr ch halls' princess (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3343)

gr ch cates' bolita (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id= 1291)

[evolutionkennels]

Speaking of hard tack Flo dogs :
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=38351

[BigEazy]

Berndt's Amber (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=4634)

[Officially Retired]

Berndt's Amber (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=4634)

Could you explain why you feel this bitch to be one of the baddest dogs IN HISTORY?

Not just a rough bitch you saw, but one of the baddest in history.

Thanks,

PS: If you have good reason, I would like to know :)

[Jrbulldogs]

gr ch bossman was a nasty gut dog from down my way, another eli/carver monster
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=28069

[Officially Retired]

How bout these two.

gr ch halls' princess (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3343)

gr ch cates' bolita (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id= 1291)


Just spoke with Sam Cates on Bolita ... she was stolen from his yard by Jeff McManus, who changed her name to Red Sonya.

As far as Cates knows, Bolita is only a 1xW, so her standing has been changed here to reflect this.

This is great ... trying to clarify history on famous dogs by those in the know ... and then documenting it in the database, photos and everything.

Fun :mrgreen:

[HateBreed]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=5326
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7347
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=8026

[EWO]

Real nice. EWO




Speaking of hard tack Flo dogs :
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=38351

[EWO]

A couple of my posts were a little off topic as I posted to some other posters. My apologies. With that said, some of the best threads that jump from topic o topic, almost like a real conversation. EWO






Could you explain why you feel this bitch to be one of the baddest dogs IN HISTORY?

Not just a rough bitch you saw, but one of the baddest in history.

Thanks,

PS: If you have good reason, I would like to know :)

[Officially Retired]

A couple of my posts were a little off topic as I posted to some other posters. My apologies. With that said, some of the best threads that jump from topic o topic, almost like a real conversation. EWO

True. And part of that real conversation was to hear why these bitches were so bad ... I've never heard of them and would like to know :)

[Wsk]

CH MORLOCKE KENNELS' SINFUL SISTER (7xW, 2xL) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=24906)

GR CH COCHRAN'S BLACK BITCH (8xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7327)

[Wsk]

CH INDIAN BLOOMERS (3xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3293)

a champion worth noting here I believe

[ragedog10]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=11369 Well deserving.

[Wsk]

what about females whos reputations kept their win record from increasing?

[Officially Retired]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=11369 Well deserving.

Indeed :hatsoff:

[Officially Retired]

CH INDIAN BLOOMERS (3xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3293)
a champion worth noting here I believe


what about females whos reputations kept their win record from increasing?


This is true. CYJ listed a lot of dogs that he "personally rates" as badass ... but the true title of the thread is baddest dogs IN HISTORY (not baddest dogs "in my humble opinion").

I think I read somewhere that Indian Sonny said Indian Bloomers was the baddest bitch he ever saw, but did she really beat the best in the world ... multiple times? :-?

The only bitch of note that I can remember Indian Bloomers beating, I think, was Pinky a sister to Red Baby.

I am not sure you can compare that with a bitch like BB Red, who beat 6 dogs, including at least 2 Champions.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

beat 2 Champions and 1 Gd Champion http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7512

To be honest, I think Joey's win over Gr Ch Texas (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=11983) was bullshit.

I wasn't there, but I did see the video, and Roadblock was a lowdown, dirty, cheating handler ... whose antics (and not anything great about Joey) won the fight that night.

Truth be told, Texas was outclassing the shit out of a one-dimensional Joey, riding his head and making an ass out of the dog ... but every time Texas would wrestle Joey to the floor, Roadblock would yell, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and every time Joey would get a break. Why? Because the idiot ref would actually SEPARATE THE DOGS (he's not supposed to!) ... and Joey would not be fanged ... and so after each bullshit, artificial separation (always when Texas was in absolute control and a mile ahead) they would "release" the dogs into each other ... and Joey would hit Texas hard in the chest. (And, quite frankly, Kirkland was an idiot for allowing this to happen, NOT saying anything, and letting his little dog get REPEATEDLY blasted in the chest like that.)

After Joey would hit Texas in the chest, Texas would get him out, and then proceed to outclass the shit out of a basically one-dimensional Joey ... and every time Joey looked like a helpless POS, or went down, Roadblock would once again scream, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and every time the idiot ref would break the dogs loose ... get Joey back in the game ... and on every ARTIFICIAL release Joey would get a real deep chesthold on Texas ... and it finally got to the little dog, and he started to wilt ... and Texas finally lost the fight ... basically, he was cheated out of an easy win.

IMO, if Roadblock would have been a good sport, and not a cheating POS ... and if the ref would have known the rules and NOT broken the dogs and called BULSHIT after the first two times he saw there was nothing wrong ... and if Kirkland would have had the nutsack to say something Roadblock ... Texas would have whipped the shit out of Joey , if people would have stayed out of it and let THE DOGS decide the outcome.

So, yeah, Joey has a great "record" ... but, after having seen him go, I don't think he's all that. My opinion is that last deal was nothing but pure BS, and I think Texas was the better dog done wrong.

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

To be honest, I think Joey's win over Gr Ch Texas (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=11983) was bullshit.

I wasn't there, but I did see the video, and Roadblock was a lowdown, dirty, cheating handler ... whose antics (and not anything great about Joey) won the fight that night.

Truth be told, Texas was outclassing the shit out of a one-dimensional Joey, riding his head and making an ass out of the dog ... but every time Texas would wrestle Joey to the floor, Roadblock would yell, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and every time Joey would get a break. Why? Because the idiot ref would actually SEPARATE THE DOGS (he's not supposed to!) ... and Joey would not be fanged ... and so after each bullshit, artificial separation (always when Texas was in absolute control and a mile ahead) they would "release" the dogs into each other ... and Joey would hit Texas hard in the chest. (And, quite frankly, Kirkland was an idiot for allowing this to happen, NOT saying anything, and letting his little dog get REPEATEDLY blasted in the chest like that.)

After Joey would hit Texas in the chest, Texas would get him out, and then proceed to outclass the shit out of a basically one-dimensional Joey ... and every time Joey looked like a helpless POS, or went down, Roadblock would once again scream, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and every time the idiot ref would break the dogs loose ... get Joey back in the game ... and on every ARTIFICIAL release Joey would get a real deep chesthold on Texas ... and it finally got to the little dog, and he started to wilt ... and Texas finally lost the fight ... basically, he was cheated out of an easy win.

IMO, if Roadblock would have been a good sport, and not a cheating POS ... and if the ref would have known the rules and NOT broken the dogs and called BULSHIT after the first two times he saw there was nothing wrong ... and if Kirkland would have had the nutsack to say something Roadblock ... Texas would have whipped the shit out of Joey IMO, if people would have stayed out of it and let THE DOGS decide the outcome.

So, yeah, Joey has a great "record" ... but, after having seen him go, I don't think he's all that. My opinion is that last deal was nothing but pure BS, and I think Texas was the better dog done wrong.

Jack

Agreed

[ragedog10]

what about females whos reputations kept their win record from increasing?

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=13533 One the best ever!

[ragedog10]

To be honest, I think Joey's win over Gr Ch Texas (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=11983) was bullshit.

I wasn't there, but I did see the video, and Roadblock was a lowdown, dirty, cheating handler ... whose antics (and not anything great about Joey) won the fight that night.

Truth be told, Texas was outclassing the shit out of a one-dimensional Joey, riding his head and making an ass out of the dog ... but every time Texas would wrestle Joey to the floor, Roadblock would yell, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and every time Joey would get a break. Why? Because the idiot ref would actually SEPARATE THE DOGS (he's not supposed to!) ... and Joey would not be fanged ... and so after each bullshit, artificial separation (always when Texas was in absolute control and a mile ahead) they would "release" the dogs into each other ... and Joey would hit Texas hard in the chest. (And, quite frankly, Kirkland was an idiot for allowing this to happen, NOT saying anything, and letting his little dog get REPEATEDLY blasted in the chest like that.)

After Joey would hit Texas in the chest, Texas would get him out, and then proceed to outclass the shit out of a basically one-dimensional Joey ... and every time Joey looked like a helpless POS, or went down, Roadblock would once again scream, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and every time the idiot ref would break the dogs loose ... get Joey back in the game ... and on every ARTIFICIAL release Joey would get a real deep chesthold on Texas ... and it finally got to the little dog, and he started to wilt ... and Texas finally lost the fight ... basically, he was cheated out of an easy win.

IMO, if Roadblock would have been a good sport, and not a cheating POS ... and if the ref would have known the rules and NOT broken the dogs and called BULSHIT after the first two times he saw there was nothing wrong ... and if Kirkland would have had the nutsack to say something Roadblock ... Texas would have whipped the shit out of Joey , if people would have stayed out of it and let THE DOGS decide the outcome.

So, yeah, Joey has a great "record" ... but, after having seen him go, I don't think he's all that. My opinion is that last deal was nothing but pure BS, and I think Texas was the better dog done wrong.

Jack.... I do not agree with those tactics was it cheating or great handling seeing how the ref let go and the opponent never spoke up?

[Officially Retired]

Jack.... I do not agree with those tactics was it cheating or great handling seeing how the ref let go and the opponent never spoke up?

That is a very simple question to answer:

Great handling = great tactics displayed that are WITHIN the rules

Cheating = getting away with bullshit NOT accepted within the rules

So you can answer your own question on the Joey matter, I am sure :idea:

[Officially Retired]

Jack.... I do not agree with those tactics was it cheating or great handling seeing how the ref let go and the opponent never spoke up?

We can go on down the line with your question:

If I get away with stealing weight at the scale, is that "great handling" or is it cheating?

If I get away with feeding your dog acepromazine in a burger bit, by putting it out where I tell you to "walk your dog" before the show, was that "great handling," or was it cheating?

If I get away with bumping my dog on his turn to go, which prompts him to scratch, is that "great handling," or is it cheating?

Cheating = cheating
Which means getting away with something you're NOT supposed to do.

By contrast, truly great handling would be me catching my dog up from the bottom, on a split-second out of hold, getting the scratching started ... and your dog failing to scratch ... and me winning with the bottom dog thanks to my LEGAL handle.

Is is called GREAT handling, precisely because IT WAS POSITIVE ... 1) it took speed, 2) it took skill, 3) it took savvy and experience to spot the right moment, and most importantly, 4) IT WAS ALLOWED within the rules of the contest ...

To call ANY form of cheating "great" anything is to SPIT ON the word, "great."

Cheating = lowdown, dirty bullshit ... and there is nothing "great" about it.

Jack

[ragedog10]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:Of course its cheating and for that I blame Texas handler for a match of that magnitude a better Ref should have been choosen and Kirkland let his down by not speaking up. We all know from a historical standpoint some will try to get any advantages possible. As you the false fangings give Joey a chance to get in a punish. Any hoot back to the topic at hand.

[ragedog10]

In my eyes Texas handler failed him.

[skipper]

I would use every trick i can to give my dog an edge. But never to the extent were it hurts the other dog. Like jack wrote possibly poisoning or some shit like that. Being a bit of an asshole in the pit is part of the game, and its up to the opponent to catch it and point it to the ref.

[Officially Retired]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:Of course its cheating and for that I blame Texas handler for a match of that magnitude a better Ref should have been choosen and Kirkland let his down by not speaking up. We all know from a historical standpoint some will try to get any advantages possible. As you the false fangings give Joey a chance to get in a punish. Any hoot back to the topic at hand.


In my eyes Texas handler failed him.

Yes!

Still, as I said in the beginning, all of the above are true: Roadblock is a lowdown dirty POS, the ref is a freakin idiot who doesn't understand the very rules he's supposed to enforce, and Kirkland failed his dog on many levels (ref selection, the eye/balls to see what's going on and to refuse to put up with it, etc.).

[Officially Retired]

I would use every trick i can to give my dog an edge. But never to the extent were it hurts the other dog. Like jack wrote possibly poisoning or some shit like that. Being a bit of an asshole in the pit is part of the game, and its up to the opponent to catch it and point it to the ref.

There is a BIG difference from being an asshole and being a cheat.

I could be a huge asshole in the pit. For example, if my dog was doing well (and they usually did, lol), I would say, "I thought you said your dogs have talent?", etc. :lol:

But I have NEVER been a cheat. My ego, and HONEST desire to see WHICH DOG truly is superior won't allow it.

I don't have a big match career, but I have rolled with many of the best dogmen from a lot of different states.

When checking my dogs, if my dog can't legitimately beat your dog, then I need to know that in order to breed dogs capable of winning.
No way in hell would I be satisfied with a bullshit win OR with a dog that needed one.

But if my dog is kicking your dog's ass, then (sorry) you might have to listen to some shit :rotflmao:

[Nut]

Im not a cheat and i wont tell u shit either.

I think if you are a true sportsman u respect ur opponent and dont talk shit about the other man's dog. Let the dog do the talking, win and shake the guys hand.

Not that i didnt expect u to be an asshole. lol

Never pull any tricks either, im with Jack on that one. "My HONEST desire to see WHICH DOG truly is superior won't allow it."

[Nut]

We can go on down the line with your question:

If I get away with stealing weight at the scale, is that "great handling" or is it cheating?

If I get away with feeding your dog acepromazine in a burger bit, by putting it out where I tell you to "walk your dog" before the show, was that "great handling," or was it cheating?

If I get away with bumping my dog on his turn to go, which prompts him to scratch, is that "great handling," or is it cheating?

Cheating = cheating
Which means getting away with something you're NOT supposed to do.

By contrast, truly great handling would be me catching my dog up from the bottom, on a split-second out of hold, getting the scratching started ... and your dog failing to scratch ... and me winning with the bottom dog thanks to my LEGAL handle.

Is is called GREAT handling, precisely because IT WAS POSITIVE ... 1) it took speed, 2) it took skill, 3) it took savvy and experience to spot the right moment, and most importantly, 4) IT WAS ALLOWED within the rules of the contest ...

To call ANY form of cheating "great" anything is to SPIT ON the word, "great."

Cheating = lowdown, dirty bullshit ... and there is nothing "great" about it.

Jack


Very good post

[Nut]

I would use every trick i can to give my dog an edge. But never to the extent were it hurts the other dog. Like jack wrote possibly poisoning or some shit like that. Being a bit of an asshole in the pit is part of the game, and its up to the opponent to catch it and point it to the ref.

Ok so you would give your dog a bump in the corner when its his time to scratch. (every trick)

[Officially Retired]

Im not a cheat and i wont tell u shit either.

I think if you are a true sportsman u respect ur opponent and dont talk shit about the other man's dog. Let the dog do the talking, win and shake the guys hand.

Not that i didnt expect u to be an asshole. lol

Never pull any tricks either, im with Jack on that one. "My HONEST desire to see WHICH DOG truly is superior won't allow it."


I am more playful than a true asshole ... talking shit in a fun way, not really trying to be a jerk.

But no way would I do something underhanded, hurt your dog with drugs/poison, or in any way deviate from THE TRUTH of which dog truly was better.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

Im not a cheat and i wont tell u shit either.

I think if you are a true sportsman u respect ur opponent and dont talk shit about the other man's dog. Let the dog do the talking, win and shake the guys hand.

Not that i didnt expect u to be an asshole. lol

Never pull any tricks either, im with Jack on that one. "My HONEST desire to see WHICH DOG truly is superior won't allow it."

:hatsoff:

[skipper]

Ok so you would give your dog a bump in the corner when its his time to scratch. (every trick)


Considering that's a foul i don't think that would be very smart. But if you weren't good enough to pick up on it, sure why not?

[skipper]

There is a BIG difference from being an asshole and being a cheat.

I could be a huge asshole in the pit. For example, if my dog was doing well (and they usually did, lol), I would say, "I thought you said your dogs have talent?", etc. :lol:

But I have NEVER been a cheat. My ego, and HONEST desire to see WHICH DOG truly is superior won't allow it.

I don't have a big match career, but I have rolled with many of the best dogmen from a lot of different states.

When checking my dogs, if my dog can't legitimately beat your dog, then I need to know that in order to breed dogs capable of winning.
No way in hell would I be satisfied with a bullshit win OR with a dog that needed one.

But if my dog is kicking your dog's ass, then (sorry) you might have to listen to some shit :rotflmao:


LOL I'm pretty much the same. Unless your a friend. Then i'm very pleasant to deal with. That is if i would be fighting dogs. Witch i'm obviously not.

[Pit Bull Committed]

Im not a cheat and i wont tell u shit either.

I think if you are a true sportsman u respect ur opponent and dont talk shit about the other man's dog. Let the dog do the talking, win and shake the guys hand.

Not that i didnt expect u to be an asshole. lol

Never pull any tricks either, im with Jack on that one. "My HONEST desire to see WHICH DOG truly is superior won't allow it."
Amen! I wish more folks who are into these dogs are like you! I've seen many that behaved worst than monkeys during a match. I simply refuse myself to be with monkey class people. Doesn't matter if they got the baddest dog that I like to see mine go with. I truly believe there are only a handful of respectable people out there that would care to enjoy a peaceful match. ;)

[Officially Retired]

Considering that's a foul i don't think that would be very smart. But if you weren't good enough to pick up on it, sure why not?


Why not?

The reason is called INTEGRITY. Because, without that, a person isn't worth a squirt of piss IMO.

And the act of "cheating" (if you think you can get away with it) means you have no integrity, so I am surprised you feel this is okay.

As the great philosopher Democritus correctly observed 500 years B.C.:


"True virtue lies not in merely 'avoiding' wrongdoing, but in having no wish to do wrong."

I have absolutely no desire to harm your dog by foul ... nor to cheat you out of your money ... but I have every desire in the world that my dog kick your dog's ass and/or pound him into submission on his scratches.

Yet, after it is over, I will do everything in my power to help you save your dog. And I would only deal with people who think likewise.

But hey, if my dog can't pull it off, and your dog gets the best of mine (by honest means also), then I will simply take my hat off and give you and your dog the credit you both deserve.

I have way too much pride for ANY other outcome than these ... Period.

[skipper]

Jack, I have never cheated in my life. Never taken money i didn't rightfully earned. I don't give a rats ass about anyones integrity other than mine. I don't worry about cheaters. I should pick a ref good enough that i don't have to worry.

[Officially Retired]

Jack, I have never cheated in my life. Never taken money i didn't rightfully earned. I don't give a rats ass about anyones integrity other than mine. I don't worry about cheaters. I should pick a ref good enough that i don't have to worry.

That is not what you said or implied.

You said (concerning whether you would purposely bump your dog), and I quote, "But if you weren't good enough to pick up on it, sure why not?."

That is a direct implication that you WOULD cheat, if you felt you could get away with it.
Getting angry won't change this direct implication.

Sure was your answer to Nut, and "Why not?" was your rhetorical question in defense of your thoughts.
So I gave you my answer to your rhetorical question.

If you give a rat's ass about your integrity, you don't do (or consider doing) things of this nature.


There is an automatic rejection of such impulses in people with integrity =;
Whereas people whose integrity is in question will "mull it over" to see if they "might possibly get away with it" :-?

That is just the way it is, and anger (or a subsequent case of "righteous indignation") won't change the truth of this.

Jack

[skipper]

you are right, i'm wrong. I meant it to provoke nut. I should've written a ":)"

[Officially Retired]

Ahh, understood :hatsoff:

[ragedog10]

He was a good one.http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=12935

[Wsk]

On the other site their is a female off mayday x diana that is labeled as dbl gr ch thomas' red 10xw ROM.

anyone know if this is real?
(I know their are people who have owned dogs off the mayday x diana breeding on this board perhaps one of them can shed some light on this for us.)

[ragedog10]

Maybe not the baddest but one of the gamest dogs ever.http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=16699

[Wsk]

GR CH TUDOR'S BLACK JACK (16xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=1308)

GR CH TUDOR'S BLACK JACK JR (9xW) (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=1298)

[Officially Retired]

It's hard to take those old dogs as seriously as more recent dogs.

There was no real weight classes, nor any real knowledge of conditioning, etc. back then.

That doesn't mean they weren't fantastic dogs; they might kill 16 or 9 straight today.

It's just hard to take them as seriously.

[jawman]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=12415 Assassin

[EWO]

Since we have left the requirement of 7 or better, here is a bad bitch that had her career cut short but with this forethought, "Past actions are the best indicators for future actions".

Ch. Angel has a story really similar to the story of Rushin' Bill's 35. She was bought out of the news paper by an 18 year old kid who quickly pawned the puppy of on his 70-plus year old grandmother. My buddy was getting into the dogs from the birds and was asking the right questions and meeting the right people and buying some really nice pups and dogs. (The kinds with a lot of blue and red coloring in the pedigree, LOL) This bitch climbs out of her pen near every day, comes up the road wanting play with his yard of dogs. He takes her back home about 10 times. Some days she beats him back. He tells the lady to chain the dog and she does not believe in chaining a dog. She says why don't you take her? She offered him the dog, a 10X10 kennels, her papers, a walking harness and near 75lbs. of food for nothing. He took her. We laughed.

Time passed and his new roll dog wanting her shot, and was given her shot and soon anything close to her weight felt her wrath. Since she did not have the pedigree to suggest she would be a match dog, and he was knew to the dogs to complicate matters, she got several more schooling rolls than necessary. After she completely ruined a bitch I was kinda' high on, I said just match the bitch, quit beating her up for nothing and I will cover half.

Her first match was into a Buck bred bitch (Gaston/Ratliff). :28 minutes RIP in the box. Her second was into a 2XW Garner bred bitch (Chinaman/Cottingham). :33 RIP in the box with a lot of her work coming from the bottom (gave nearly 2 pounds). Her third was into a 2XW daughter of Ch. Deadlift. :48 minutes and RIP within an hour after ( somewhat sluggish here, and back to the cheaters, she ate a Big Mac on the walk out just prior, and we found two more on the path we were told to walk. We told them we would add the special sauce and sesame bun to our keep, cause it just killed your dog).

All three the same. She started in the side of the jaw, bit and bit til she was in the throat, and once she had the throat it was over. 3 wins over three good dogs. 3 RIP on top of that and 2 BIS nights.

Her owner fell from a tree and broke his leg that ending up with 6-8 surgeries, nearly lost his leg and is now no longer capable of keeping up with the dogs. (I tried to sell one of his Honeybunch stud dogs on here sometime ago). He got rid of everything but the stud dog I offered up and his Ch. Angel bitch.

Her pedigree has always been my favorite and it has been deleted from the other site. I am going to try to re-post it here if I can find the dogs to start with. They were newspaper dogs. Every known bloodline known to man was in those dogs. Chinaman/Frisco, Mims, Cotton's Bullet, Colby, Snooty, Jeep/Rascal, Jeep/Redboy, Ronnie Hyde, and Kimsey Woods in the back and do-nothing/done-done nothing dogs in the front. A person would be hard pressed to intentionally scatter breed a dog like this on purpose.

She was bred twice to producing dogs and produced 1 out of 3 and 1 out of four in two breedings.

She does not have the 7 required wins to be considered one of the all time baddest like a lot of others on this thread, but she convinced me, as well as three others that she would show up with nothing but ill intent and absolutely no regard for canine life. If things were different I believe she would be mentioned here with the correct 'resume'.

Sorry for the length. Waiting for tanks to pump out. Got some time on my hands. EWO

[gameday]

Great story EWO!!...she definantly had the makings of a multi winning match dog....

Love to see her ped...just out of curiosity!

[Officially Retired]

That was an interesting story. That is how Silverback worked it: from deep on the ear ... then a quick switch to the side/under the jaw hinge ... and would just chew his way in and under the throat ... until good night Irene.

[evolutionkennels]

EWO,

Can u call Carl get the story on the 14xw

[EWO]

I will talk with him in a few days. I will ask. EWO

[EWO]

I need some papers signed by him and I will look at her pedigree this weekend. It gives a brand new meaning to scatter bred. EWO




Great story EWO!!...she definantly had the makings of a multi winning match dog....

Love to see her ped...just out of curiosity!

[Jrbulldogs]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3304 heard he was nothing but the truth

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=2088
this one as well

[Jrbulldogs]

another bad one
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7728

[STA8541]

EWO, I know I'm late to this party, but I was wondering at what weight you campaigned Ch. Angel?

[EWO]

39. She was not mine but belonged to a partner. EWO

[STA8541]

Thank you.

[cdj396]

Mims' Ritz was 43-44ib he had 17 contract 17 kills

[Officially Retired]

Mims' Ritz was 43-44ib he had 17 contract 17 kills

Do you mean this finely-kept, healthy specimen?

Mims' Ritz (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=42788)

Where did you get your info TJ?

[cdj396]

from Carl Mims

[Officially Retired]

from Carl Mims

Not to question anyone's word, but that dog looks sickly to me.

Who were some of the opponents/kennels this dog beat?

Thanks,

Jack

PS: Ask Carl if he has any other photos, thanks.

[EWO]

He was 11 or 12 in that picture. He was old and sickly because he had an incredibly hard life the first 6-8 years. I can't vouch for 17 but he did win once over one of the Gaston Buck bred dogs in a short order RIP and then again over a G-Force Virgil/Clemmons Maverick/Sixbits bred dog. Both of those were RIP shows. He was extremely intense with a tremendous amount of mouth and he throat checked dogs early. The Gaston Buck bred dog was a one hold show. They were released and his first hold was a deep full grip in the throat and he never came out. Seems like it took 15-20 minutes to make a handle but it was over before that.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=37883

This is a female I had some time ago. Her littermate brother ended up a lot like the Ritz dog. It sounds odd to say, but their fatal character flaw was simply they would not quit. They lived in a less than ideal place where they were pulled off the chain every time someone wanted to see two dog's fight. Ramera de Negra's littermate brother went over an hour four-five-six Saturdays in a row. The fifth and sixth were done on top of injuries from #1 that were never healed and barely treated. There is no telling how many dogs he stopped by just not stopping himself. Average mouth, average ability but rough and durable, with enough heart for ten dogs.

Ritz fell into a similar situation early on. EWO

[EWO]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=46998

This male was owned by the same guy that had my female's littermate I posted above. There is no telling how many he stopped, killed, ruined before he was rescued by Pure Power. From that point he won four, twice going over 2:30. I would not make a claim for a bunch of "wins" but I would not be afraid to say he 'did in' 10-12 before he actually won four.

EWO

[Officially Retired]

He was 11 or 12 in that picture. He was old and sickly because he had an incredibly hard life the first 6-8 years. I can't vouch for 17 but he did win once over one of the Gaston Buck bred dogs in a short order RIP and then again over a G-Force Virgil/Clemmons Maverick/Sixbits bred dog. Both of those were RIP shows. He was extremely intense with a tremendous amount of mouth and he throat checked dogs early. The Gaston Buck bred dog was a one hold show. They were released and his first hold was a deep full grip in the throat and he never came out. Seems like it took 15-20 minutes to make a handle but it was over before that.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=37883 (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=37883)

This is a female I had some time ago. Her littermate brother ended up a lot like the Ritz dog. It sounds odd to say, but their fatal character flaw was simply they would not quit. They lived in a less than ideal place where they were pulled off the chain every time someone wanted to see two dog's fight. Ramera de Negra's littermate brother went over an hour four-five-six Saturdays in a row. The fifth and sixth were done on top of injuries from #1 that were never healed and barely treated. There is no telling how many dogs he stopped by just not stopping himself. Average mouth, average ability but rough and durable, with enough heart for ten dogs.

Ritz fell into a similar situation early on. EWO

Appreciate the feedback and rendition.

Is that the best you can do with your dog entry ... just a dog name?

Should I just put in Poncho for my dog, Mayday, Jeep, etc.? Get rid of all the owner/kennel names ... and just have a bunch of ownerless/breederless dogs floating around here?

Would look pretty lame and sloppy wouldn't it?

That's kinda how that looks.

Did that dog have an owner?

If so, can you please put the owner's name in front of the dog, as is the proper way to register any dog?

Thanks :mrgreen:

Jack

PS: Throat dogs are murder.

[Officially Retired]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=46998

This male was owned by the same guy that had my female's littermate I posted above. There is no telling how many he stopped, killed, ruined before he was rescued by Pure Power. From that point he won four, twice going over 2:30. I would not make a claim for a bunch of "wins" but I would not be afraid to say he 'did in' 10-12 before he actually won four.

EWO

That is how Darth Vader (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=8413&thumbnail=3) won 12 ... he was owned by Ricky Franklin in MS, who would bicycle the dog around the hood and "match" the dog into anyone with a bulldog. Vader won his first over the X-Men at 10 months of age. Lost to the Xmen at 13 months of age, where Zeus and Frank Jr. told me he was still acting like a puppy.

I cussed Ricky out for fighting the dog so young, so we never spoke again after that, but a decade later Zeus and Frank Jr. of Xmen were over at my yard buying a few dogs, and they told me they advised Ricky to let him grow up, because he was so HUGE for his weight and so brutal. After the age of 2 Ricky fought the dog 11 more times and won every fight. Darth Vader won 12 fights total ... and XMen told me he would have been a living legend in the hands of a top dogman. Frank Jr said the dogs was an ace ear dog that could kill in the throat also. I have had small dogs like that, but this was a Mayday-sized dog, yet untouchable, could finish with one hold. The sad thing is, his resume isn't worth talking about, because most of the fights were local yokel deals. The dog was never bred and died of heartworms. Same level of "care" as Ritz.

[dtakennels]

That photo of Ritz was taken on the yard of a greenhorn who had him at the time for breeding purposes...The guy tried to hook Ritz up with a female he had in heat and ole boy hit the bitch in the guts and killed her before he knew what was going own...Scared the shit out of him and he just stopped feeding and taking care of the dog....Would not even take the dog out of the car when he brought it back to Carl....Now 17 wins I don't know but he got a few for sure....The dog was a pure Animal in the woods....He thought it was supper time....The dog had a hard life....

[EWO]

The 'UNKNOWN' buttons for the breeder and owner were never active and I can't click on them to update. We had a power failure when I was making the pedigree and when I completed the pedigree at a later time those options were no longer available to me. I also found that some of the pedigrees I made were the same way. I contacted CYJ about the pedigree sections I did not have access to and he fixed them.

If the 'UNKNOWN' section for breeder and owner are active I will make the corrections/additions.

And yes to both questions, looked lame in comparison and throat dogs are murder. EWO






Appreciate the feedback and rendition.

Is that the best you can do with your dog entry ... just a dog name?

Should I just put in Poncho for my dog, Mayday, Jeep, etc.? Get rid of all the owner/kennel names ... and just have a bunch of ownerless/breederless dogs floating around here?

Would look pretty lame and sloppy wouldn't it?

That's kinda how that looks.

Did that dog have an owner?

If so, can you please put the owner's name in front of the dog, as is the proper way to register any dog?

Thanks :mrgreen:

Jack

PS: Throat dogs are murder.

[Officially Retired]

The 'UNKNOWN' buttons for the breeder and owner were never active and I can't click on them to update. We had a power failure when I was making the pedigree and when I completed the pedigree at a later time those options were no longer available to me. I also found that some of the pedigrees I made were the same way. I contacted CYJ about the pedigree sections I did not have access to and he fixed them.

If the 'UNKNOWN' section for breeder and owner are active I will make the corrections/additions.

And yes to both questions, looked lame in comparison and throat dogs are murder. EWO

Okay, thanks.

The dog became a "core dog" when we created that feature. I have changed this and you can now edit.

Would you please complete the entry on it?

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=37883

Also, adding some of his history to the notes would be interesting too, for those who come upon the pedigree but might not have read this thread :)

[dtakennels]

Couple things on that ped....Hollands Dollar and Hollands Red Girl are littermates....Also on peds online it seems a lot of the dogs out of Red Baron and Miss Spazz have James Edwards breeding them...This is also false...While James did get some pups off of both dogs he never had anything to do with either and they were never on his yard at any time...Both dogs were bought from Vernon Jackson by Tim Pernell....Dwight Pulley and his partner went and picked them up for Tim from VJ....While he was still in SC....Dwight Pulley later got both dogs when Tim was shot and killed 1 night after a dispute at a local store....

Hate to Hijack the thread..

[EWO]

No hijacking. I could tell that same story but it is always better coming from the source. Tim was a few years older than me but we played a little baseball together in he mid 80's. Heck of an arm. All that happened while I was away.

Speaking of hijacking, you should type while Pops talks and drop some of that old school knowledge.

He will laugh here. "You can come back anytime you like, but don't bring that loud mouthed SOB with you"

EWO

[Officially Retired]

Couple things on that ped....Hollands Dollar and Hollands Red Girl are littermates....Also on peds online it seems a lot of the dogs out of Red Baron and Miss Spazz have James Edwards breeding them...This is also false...While James did get some pups off of both dogs he never had anything to do with either and they were never on his yard at any time...Both dogs were bought from Vernon Jackson by Tim Pernell....Dwight Pulley and his partner went and picked them up for Tim from VJ....While he was still in SC....Dwight Pulley later got both dogs when Tim was shot and killed 1 night after a dispute at a local store....

Hate to Hijack the thread..

Not a hijack at all, good feedback with clarifying info.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Just spoke with Sam Cates on Bolita ... she was stolen from his yard by Jeff McManus, who changed her name to Red Sonya.

As far as Cates knows, Bolita is only a 1xW, so her standing has been changed here to reflect this.

This is great ... trying to clarify history on famous dogs by those in the know ... and then documenting it in the database, photos and everything.

Fun :mrgreen:

Not arguing, simply b/c I do not know first hand, but McManus is known to be an honest man.
Not discrediting anything Mr. Cates said, just contradicts what a lot of folks in this area think about Jeff.
Food for thought

[Officially Retired]

Not arguing, simply b/c I do not know first hand, but McManus is known to be an honest man.
Not discrediting anything Mr. Cates said, just contradicts what a lot of folks in this area think about Jeff.
Food for thought

Sometimes it's hard to know who to believe, true.

[No Quarter Kennel]

No doubt about that. Like anyone I've met and had some business with, if I can offer my own perspective, I will, especially if it's positive. Doesn't change anything......just my understanding.

The dogs are SUBMERSED in bullshit and bullshitters.......too bad. Mucks up the waters!

[STA8541]

The dogs are SUBMERSED in bullshit and bullshitters.......too bad. Mucks up the waters!

Totally agree. It's a large part of the problems w/the game.

[YELLOWJOHN]

AJAX MONGOOSE

[MOSES]

I have got to give the nod to HK Mike:
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7498 she really was just that good in the box!
Dog Boy Matt:
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=8854 the general, was a total package!

[YELLOWJOHN]

hmmm ch pandi tried to go into nine milli. and matt just bred morocco he didn't campaign him.

[Officially Retired]

I have got to give the nod to HK Mike:
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7498 she really was just that good in the box!
Dog Boy Matt:
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=8854 the general, was a total package!


Both are definitely great dogs ...

Neither is anywhere near "Baddest Dog of All Time" status ... not by a country mile (imho)

Jack

[MOSES]

Pandi (shoulda, coulda, woulda), that I don't know. I'll say I have never known or heard of Mike ducking anyone, but I could be wrong. Fact is she made GR CH and looked damn good doing it. The only thing that puts a damper on her carrier is we will never know how she could done if she spent more time in the brood box. I don't know much about Tec, but I would say he was a hell of a start.

Really, you can't look past Matt, that is crazy! If he was JUST the breeder, Tom was JUST the money. If I wanted a (morocco/mike/tuffy/or a poodle), Tom would NOT be my POC (not banging on Tom). IMO, Matt is a dogmans dogman, but that's me. BIBO and I were just talking to about this very thing the two weeks ago, and it really came down to what you call a dogman? I am new to the forum, not the work.

Anyway, I digress, the post was about the dogs not the breeders/owners.

As for the dog, he was a general. He made ROM in a short but productive stud carrier. % wise if you dump all the breedings that never happened and really took a head count on the dogs, you'll see that he was a very good producer. Out of his litter of 4 dogs (1-CH/ROM male, 1-1x male, 1-ROM female) As a line the dogs they have been held hostage, IMO. If Victor or Jack would have owned the dog, his carrier would have taken a different track. One way or another...

[Bingo]

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s414/JeremyQuillin1/image-4.jpg
Blackrocks' Gr Ch Candy (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=19409)

Candy was one of the best we have ever seen period. She's more impressive than GRCH Chilindrina(seen her twice), GRCH Copperhead(seen her 3 times), GRCH Chuma(seen her twice), and to me better than GRCH Cheyenne also. Joyero thinks it's a tossup between Cheyenne and Candy. Candy is much smarter IMO and nothing ever touched her, Cheyenne took a while to figure out a very good nose dog. Candy took out 2 killing CH's, one I was quite worried because I had seen her twice and she was a killer that had it all, but Candy gave it back to her very hard, they couldn't believe it. Too much speed, ability, intensity and finish. The last was the killer Ch Angela 4xw that took the faces off 3 worthy opponents. Angela was the favorite, didn't last very long. Angela couldn't take the pressure and jumped in 6 min, lol. candy is one of the best we have ever seen male or female out of thousands. And the smartest most intense finishing throat dog without a doubt.No one is on Candy's level.
I just reposted this statement.

[Officially Retired]

Candy was one of the best we have ever seen period. She's more impressive than GRCH Chilindrina(seen her twice), GRCH Copperhead(seen her 3 times), GRCH Chuma(seen her twice), and to me better than GRCH Cheyenne also. Joyero thinks it's a tossup between Cheyenne and Candy. Candy is much smarter IMO and nothing ever touched her, Cheyenne took a while to figure out a very good nose dog. Candy took out 2 killing CH's, one I was quite worried because I had seen her twice and she was a killer that had it all, but Candy gave it back to her very hard, they couldn't believe it. Too much speed, ability, intensity and finish. The last was the killer Ch Angela 4xw that took the faces off 3 worthy opponents. Angela was the favorite, didn't last very long. Angela couldn't take the pressure and jumped in 6 min, lol. candy is one of the best we have ever seen male or female out of thousands. And the smartest most intense finishing throat dog without a doubt.No one is on Candy's level.
I just reposted this statement.

Interesting. Who are her opponents? Pedigrees?

1) ?
2) ?
3) ?
4) ?
5) Ch Angela (4xW)?

She sounds tremendous. Not sure if I can agree with the "no one's on Candy's level" statements (Molly B (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=6117)? The Queen (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=1919)? Tornado (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=9349)?), but she sounds like a truly awesome machine.

Jack

[CrazyRed]

Pandi (shoulda, coulda, woulda), that I don't know. I'll say I have never known or heard of Mike ducking anyone, but I could be wrong. Fact is she made GR CH and looked damn good doing it. The only thing that puts a damper on her carrier is we will never know how she could done if she spent more time in the brood box. I don't know much about Tec, but I would say he was a hell of a start.

That's where all the drama begin, bc of 9 winning her 4th it was supposed to be Pandi for the GrCh title, I remember J with a Ch bitch at 36 or 38 trying to get it settled bc at the time it was another winner Pandi was about to go into. But she was going to turn it down for opporunity to beat 9 so she could solidify her GrCh title. 9 was supposedly retired and even was said to have passed but then she won her 5th lol.


Really, you can't look past Matt, that is crazy! If he was JUST the breeder, Tom was JUST the money. If I wanted a (morocco/mike/tuffy/or a poodle), Tom would NOT be my POC (not banging on Tom). IMO, Matt is a dogmans dogman, but that's me. BIBO and I were just talking to about this very thing the two weeks ago, and it really came down to what you call a dogman? I am new to the forum, not the work.

Anyway, I digress, the post was about the dogs not the breeders/owners.

I agree can't look past neither, and shoot if Bibo still got that stuff.. He would be the one of the 1st calls..


As for the dog, he was a general. He made ROM in a short but productive stud carrier. % wise if you dump all the breedings that never happened and really took a head count on the dogs, you'll see that he was a very good producer. Out of his litter of 4 dogs (1-CH/ROM male, 1-1x male, 1-ROM female) As a line the dogs they have been held hostage, IMO. If Victor or Jack would have owned the dog, his carrier would have taken a different track. One way or another... Morocco was def a very good producer i remember seeing a few off him.. Only one that i didn't like was Doug, that show with Ch Lil Buck was BS.. Def wasn't no game loss, the dog jumped before things even got started and they agreed on some redo shit and he quit again.

[lightningstrikes]

What about ch melon head is there a story or info on this dog he won 12 or 17 with 2 losses that's a great record

[FrostyPaws]

Melonhead lost 1 match to P. Comeaux and his T-Bone dog.

[lightningstrikes]

Thanks frosty do u know if that was his last or in between and u have any other info his style or anything ???

Lightningstrikes

[Officially Retired]

Thanks frosty do u know if that was his last or in between and u have any other info his style or anything ???
Lightningstrikes

I believe after Melonhead lost to Ch T-Bone (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=52053) that he came back and defeated that same dog, but I am not sure.

[MISTER]

Gr Ch Firecracker (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=17531)

[Officially Retired]

Firecracker's story is kind of a downer, really.

Don't see how anyone would let their 8xW finally die in the pit ...

Jack

[MISTER]

Firecracker's story is kind of a downer, really.

Don't see how anyone would let their 8xW finally die in the pit ...

Jack

It's a shame what some people do to these dogs.. Blunt wore down teeth, past their prime, eating bullshit food, yet forced to go one more time to line their owner's pockets, prove a senseless point, and the only thing that's lost is a damn good animal... In this case a pair of good animals

[S_B]

That's what separates gamblers from dogmen...

[AGK]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=40453

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=27490

Here's 2 greats that were recently bred together.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Deserves a mention as one of the baddest modern era dogs ALIVE.

https://i.imgur.com/FrsUema.jpg

1xw in 28min against Camacho knls Chapo
2xw in 38min against Frontera knls Caro Quintero
3xw in 27min against Candela knls Popeye
4xw in 40min against SM's Cayman 2xw
5xw in 40min against Frontera knls Ch Cachorro 3xw
6xw in 1h10min against Team Cro's Ch Dylan 3xw
7xw in 2h35min against Kim knl's Ch Bady 3xw

https://i.imgur.com/EhZSBvp.jpg

[Buwaya]

I havent viewed the rest of the 11 pages but AJAX comes to mind

[EWO]

Agreed on Ajax. There was a time when he was referred to as the Texas Terror.


Tons of finish.

EWO

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Another from the modern era is Gr Ch Goon Goon (5XW-1XW OTC)...

https://i.imgur.com/j7wpXeO.jpg

...and the old man is still healthy as can be seen from his appearance at this years Cajun Classic.

https://youtu.be/bZ6dqZAsBxE

Some other modern era bad asses :

Gr Ch Turbo
https://i.imgur.com/7NYkmR3.jpg

Gr Ch Big Whiskey
https://i.imgur.com/AHzEVmI.jpg

Gr Ch Eulogy
https://i.imgur.com/nnshCLo.jpg

Gr Ch .22
https://i.imgur.com/2sVIhzQ.jpg

Gr Ch Steven
https://i.imgur.com/fCW54rN.jpg

Gr Ch Jesse
https://i.imgur.com/6ZRzn7U.jpg