The size of offspring

[red dog]

A friend of mine recently made a breeding of Two dogs that are in their high to mid 40's comfortable . We are all shocked how small the pups seem to be at their age.

My question is how can two dogs that are that size throw such small offspring , the breeding is very loose line with no common ancestor for five generations ? :shock: :shock:

[YigYang]

Genetics can be a result or just puppies need more food when they are in a growth spurt and the quality of food can make a difference in his size. Giving a pup a bowl of high quality kibble will help insure he is getting all the nutrients he needs and is growing as he should. Don’t be alarmed if your pup thins out a bit during this period despite extra food. Check on his growth stats and, once he slows down, he should fill out a bit again.

[Officially Retired]

A friend of mine recently made a breeding of Two dogs that are in their high to mid 40's comfortable . We are all shocked how small the pups seem to be at their age.
My question is how can two dogs that are that size throw such small offspring , the breeding is very loose line with no common ancestor for five generations ? :shock: :shock:

If the breeding has no common ancestor for 5 generations, it is coming awfully close to being scatterbred, which means the genes can "pull" from anywhere.

You would have to know the size disparity not just of all the dogs in the 5-gen ped, but of their littermates as well, to get a feel for how "abnormal" this is.

Regarding your question about pup size, it is hard to envision how "small" they are without a reference photo in comparison to other pups of their age. Further, this could possibly be a health issue as well, because worm overloard (or un-tended-to coccidia) can stunt the growth of pups severely.

Jack


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[Frank43]

If the breeding has no common ancestor for 5 generations, it is coming awfully close to being scatterbred, which means the genes can "pull" from anywhere.

You would have to know the size disparity not just of all the dogs in the 5-gen ped, but of their littermates as well, to get a feel for how "abnormal" this is.

Regarding your question about pup size, it is hard to envision how "small" they are without a reference photo in comparison to other pups of their age. Further, this could possibly be a health issue as well, because worm overloard (or un-tended-to coccidia) can stunt the growth of pups severely.

Jack


.



Is this type of stunting permanent or can it correct once the problem resolves ie more food, worming or whatever. Can the dog get back on its growth curb. I remember some vets said puppy food actually stimulates pups to grow to fast. Is this true or not?

[EWO]

A general rule of thumb is the bigger the breed the slower you would want them to grow. Mostly because every thing does not grow at the same rate. Even in bulldogs you see a lot of dogs go thru that gangly look where they look like all legs.

In the larger breeds, which are more affected by dysplasia, ti is better to slow the growth by keeping them lean and fit vs. hog fat.

I am sure some health issues can stunt growth and that growth never be recovered. I would say, even if wormy from the jump, most dogs end up where they were going to be anyway.


Back toward the post by Jack, you can't just feed bulldogs by the number of cups printed on the bag. Especially when scatter bred as the size of the dogs can vary from 35 to 70 within a litter. Size can be one of the consistencies in a 'consistent' breeding program, maybe not down to all within a 5lb range but not as much as 30-40lb swings.

Lots of puppy foods are designed to stimulate growth. We live in America where 'bigger is always better'. With that sentiment many a puppy has been raised hog fat and over fed, couple that with something designed to 'grow fast'. Health problems can occur.

EWO

[Frank43]

I agree. I don’t like puppy fat.

[BLADE]

Gary Hammonds told a story in his book that relates to this topic. He said that the fella that raised Parkson from a pup up until Gary got him back as a grown dog fed him the highest quality feed available and took very good care of him. Gary said he believed that this contributed to Parkson growing up into the great big dog that he was. He basically said Park probably wouldn't have turned out that big had he (Gary) had him his whole life.

[SGC]

Genetics and nutrition will help determine the size a pup will grow to. There is a fad these days for overly high protein grain free kibbles and those are not so good to feed any dog or pup. For a mid size dog like a pit bull I like to feed a quality kibble with from 25% to 30% protein, not higher. I also supplement with raw meats. I like to see meats in the first 5 ingredients and no peas or having it way down the list. It's been shown that grain free foods with high pea content causes heart problems in dogs. The FROMM Puppy Gold is a good food, 27% protein and 18% fat as I remember, plus it has no wheat or corn in it, and no peas. They have a Gold line for adult dogs too.

And you can feed a quality adult food to pups too. As said above with the giant breeds like wolfhounds you do not want them to grow too fast so an adult food is best. A good worming program is helpful too. As to size variation in a litter, my current gyp is 40 pounds, she's from an 11 pup litter and size as adults has ranged from 75 pounds to 40 pounds, with most being about 50 pounds, parents were 60 pounds and 50 pounds, it was a loose line breeding.