Battle of the builds

[Bullman]

What is everyones preference when it comes to builds of these dogs? I myself prefer the medium height strong built dogs like GrCh Tornado, GrCh Spike, Grch Banjo, GrCh Cela, Ch Black Mup etc. I think when you have a good one they are hard to beat and take of their feet. They are usually the stronger dog also. I like the racier built dogs too but if I had to choose I like dogs like the dogs mentioned above, How about you?

[CYJ]

The medium station built dog is over all the best. When they get to tall and racy built. The bones tend to be smaller, the front of chest gets to upside down U shaped. Which that type of chest lacks deep muscle mass and less of a deep breathing length of chest. Tend to get more barrel chested.

Of course some dogs do not know how they are built and still perform well. Breeding real stocky built, heavy muscled types to each other usually produce to much of the same thing. One breeder I know Harris, said he liked a lean athletic male bred over a more muscular bitch. To try and get a more balanced dog build wise.

Sometimes you just have to play the cards you are dealt with. The dogs need deep gaminess first, but still will perform their best with a race car built body. I liked big teeth with a thick bottom base to the teeth. That was a big bonus also.

That Weird Jack dog's build is a good example of a lot of dog for the weight and built to wrestle and push another dog hard. Head is not to big and well balanced for the neck and body to carry. Cheers

[Officially Retired]

I agree with all that has been said. It's funny, because I just got this PM yesterday:


No problem, thanks for setting the foundation. I have moved away from Bolio bred dogs for a while but he brought back the memories. Very offensive head controlling dog who will offensively ride the face once he controls you and even though he is small he packs the power and control of his balance as if he is 50lbs against 25lbs. That's one thing I've noticed about your dogs they have great balance and their smarts exploits those talents. Great on their feet and they know when to be offensive or defensive to gain control.

It did make me sick that he called my dogs "Bolio-bred," when they were Poncho-bred, but the observation as to their talents was spot-on.

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

Dog will look different in shape and on chain.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/407865.jpg

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/3/9/5/1/MachoBuck.jpg

http://www.game-dog.com/gallery/files/6/7/7/3/Machobuckbod.jpg

The last picture is my favorite picture of what I think to be the perfect long pitbull body

[Jrbulldogs]

i perfer one built like chinaman, the second photo is of qsk's fox, and after seeing him hunt, he sounds like the closest thing to chinamn ;)

[Bullman]

Yes Fox is a good one alright!

[evolutionkennels]

i perfer one built like chinaman, the second photo is of qsk's fox, and after seeing him hunt, he sounds like the closest thing to chinamn ;)


Whats his weight?

[Officially Retired]

Poncho's sister Missy had a long body ...


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000003_03.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3)

But I prefer a perfectly square body like his daughter Screamer had: perfect balance:


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000221_01.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=221)

And Screamer's daughter Jezebel (bred back to Poncho) was the fastest, smartest, slickest, most athletic bitch I have ever owned:


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000219_02.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=219)

A total athlete if there ever was one ..

Jack

[Jrbulldogs]

Whats his weight?
he was a 40-42 but he is 7 now with wrecked hardware, he is a 1xw in 10 mins

[Jrbulldogs]

Vise-grip's missy is astonishing, picture perfect specimen.

[evolutionkennels]

Vise-grip's missy is astonishing, picture perfect specimen.


Sorry buddy, I prefer Missy. Styful dogs will die trying to get back there. A truly superior specimen.

[Officially Retired]

Missy was the more devastating of the 3 ... Screamer was a calm, methodical WALL and dismantler ... while Jezebel was a whirlwind and acrobat.

[evolutionkennels]

Missy was the more devastating of the 3 ... Screamer was a calm, methodical WALL and dismantler ... while Jezebel was a whirlwind and acrobat.


i like the word devstating. :)

[Bullman]

This is the build I am partial to.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_001024_01.jpg?517935
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_009349_04.jpg?265185
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_006077_01.jpg?253358
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_009955_01.jpg?958968
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/466615.jpg
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/304130.jpg
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/241871.jpg
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000649_01.jpg?805050

[evolutionkennels]

toronado back end taller than fronnt end. Barracuda was the same. 10 wins and 9 wins maybe on to somethin. Machobear has the same shape. backend a bit taller.

http://www.machobuck.com/Machobear%202014.jpg

[evolutionkennels]

toronado back end taller than fronnt end. Barracuda was the same. 10 wins and 9 wins maybe on to somethin. Machobear has the same shape. backend a bit taller.

http://www.machobuck.com/Machobear%202014.jpg

http://www.machobuck.com/Machobear%20x%20Miss%20Austin9.jpg

http://www.machobuck.com/Baracuda.jpg

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_009349_04.jpg?265185

[evolutionkennels]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DvRLPoYtnU0/UXoMdhQZ1uI/AAAAAAAAE7M/PWMkGxTbPHk/s1600/Gr+Ch++Barracuda+9xw+Rom.jpg


Downtown's Puma dog is one of the very few dogs out there that have the 1996,2002,2003, and 2004 SDJ DOY winners under one roof. And boy oh boy can he finish. He has a perfect build as well, Its gonna take something special to outpull him. :

http://www.machobuck.com/Puma.jpg (http://www.machobuck.com/Puma.htm)

[CYJ]

Ditto Stoneline. Nice to see you liked the Jr dog. Jr looked a lot like his grand or great grand sire Young's Chuck. Chuck was the same color and size. My Chuck dog had good straight front legs and not quite as heavy shouldered and fiddle footed.

That was a throw back off my Young's Monkey bitch. Monkey like some of that Eli stuff. Was real heavy shouldered up in the front, long body, was fiddle footed, and a heavy boned dog. I started not to use her for breeding for that reason. But I really tested the hell out of her due to that. I called her Monkey because she could figure out a way to climb out of a dog pen and then wreck havoc on the closest dog she ran up to. Luckily she was a small dog and the few she hit on the chain were bigger dogs that held out till I or my wife came out to see what was going on. I was glad she never got to my Sally bitch. Both dogs would have gotten hurt real bad and cost me a dog and probably a huge vet bill.

When I put her in a pen, I had to chain her also. Had put up extra high pieces of extended wire that leaned in to the pen. Monkey was very powerful and would lock her legs in the wire slots and climb and do what ever it took to get over it. I could have put up a hot wire, but did not like shocking my dogs.

All of the dogs I bred straight off Young's Monkey did not have that trait. I have seen pictures of some of the other Jackson dogs, but only Jr showed that fault. Must have not mattered since he could be put through a keep without going lame more than one time. Cheers

[Jrbulldogs]

Sorry buddy, I prefer Missy. Styful dogs will die trying to get back there. A truly superior specimen.

sorry evo, fox will not only check your kidneys but he will check your throat very hard and had freak strength and speed as well, did not push like a dumby, he knew how to use angles as well, trust me he was not a one dimensional hound, he was very special, and he is producing his ass off.

[Officially Retired]

Interesting observation about the backend being taller ...

The back acts like a leafspring I reckon ...

[Black Hand]

sorry evo, fox will not only check your kidneys but he will check your throat very hard and had freak strength and speed as well, did not push like a dumby, he knew how to use angles as well, trust me he was not a one dimensional hound, he was very special, and he is producing his ass off.

Smart dog is the best dog. Never like a one dimensional head dog or stifle dog but a dog that has patience. Head dog does have an advantage as his preference is usually the first spot available.

[skipper]

Some very nice dogs posted. Missy is absolute perfection. So is Macho. I prefer an athletic built dog. Strong and solid built but not so heavy set that movement is hindered. Very few of those bully type dogs have good natural air, something that's very important for me. Now some dogs are exceptions and freak of natures. But the average athletic built dog will most of the time outlast the average thicker built dog, and in my experience they aren't that much weaker either. This dog is staying at my yard at the moment. I really like his built. Got serious air without lacking in strength.
http://i.imgur.com/1AcD41E.jpg

P.s I love to see those freaks of nature when all you can do is scratch your head thinking how the hell is that dog doing that.

[skipper]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/466615.jpg
[/IMG]

Nice, i heard this one was one of those exceptions. Built like a tank and still agile and good natural air.

[Officially Retired]

Smart dog is the best dog. Never like a one dimensional head dog or stifle dog but a dog that has patience. Head dog does have an advantage as his preference is usually the first spot available.

Head dog has the advantage for that reason and the fact that the other dog's head is where its weapons are.

He who controls the head controls = how much he gets bit ...

Meanwhile, he whose head is controlLED = he who is ineffective.

The only other place you can bite, and not control the head, is deep in the throat.

From a tactical standpoint, breeding for dogs that control the head = breeding dogs that control the deal.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

Some very nice dogs posted. Missy is absolute perfection. So is Macho. I prefer an athletic built dog. Strong and solid built but not so heavy set that movement is hindered. Very few of those bully type dogs have good natural air, something that's very important for me. Now some dogs are exceptions and freak of natures. But the average athletic built dog will most of the time outlast the average thicker built dog, and in my experience they aren't that much weaker either. This dog is staying at my yard at the moment. I really like his built. Got serious air without lacking in strength.
P.s I love to see those freaks of nature when all you can do is scratch your head thinking how the hell is that dog doing that.

Nice post, and thanks for the compliments. I wish I had Missy all over again. Her son Silverback was a pretty good-looking dog also. The only dog I have left, Amazon, is a granddaughter of 2 of my 3 best bitches, Missy and Jezebel (Jezebel herself being a daughter of Screamer). Amazon therefore has strong, matriarchal heritage ... and is not a bad-looking bitch either:


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000222_01.jpg http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000222_04.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=222)

She has kindof a longish look in some angles, with a "high back end" like Evo mentioned ... and yet the classic "square" look of a true Poncho dog (that I like to see) in others.

Of key importance to me, structure-wise, is that Amazon also has a lonng, thick, powerful neck and heavy shoulders ... which are great for a head dog like she's born to be ... as well as for really rooting into the throat as I hope she turns out to be. A truly good head dog is STRONG and stops a dog in its tracks with its powerful head-hold ... and is hard to get to because of its long, thick, powerful neck ... itself anchored into a set of powerful shoulders.

I've not touched Amazon yet, and she's coming up on 3 years old, and is entering the prime of her life.

She certainly is bred to kick ass ... and she is also built to kick ass ... and I have little doubt she will ... if/when I ever decide to see for sure.

Those are fairly old photos and she looks even more powerful now ...

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

Head dog has the advantage for that reason and the fact that the other dog's head is where its weapons are.

He who controls the head controls = how much he gets bit ...

Meanwhile, he whose head is controlLED = he who is ineffective.

The only other place you can bite, and not control the head, is deep in the throat.

From a tactical standpoint, breeding for dogs that control the head = breeding dogs that control the deal.

Jack


And that's why I breed throat dogs that will go to the head as plan B. .

[Officially Retired]

And that's why I breed throat dogs that will go to the head as plan B. .

We do similar things, just in reverse: I breed dogs that latch onto the head and then, hopefully, shoot for the throat :)

I prefer to try to establish control immediately, which almost invariably comes from a head-hold.

To me, a head-hold is like the jab of a good boxer ... and going into the throat a right cross to finish.

It is harder to land your right cross, if you've not first established control/range/timing with your left jab.

[evolutionkennels]

We do similar things, just in reverse: I breed dogs that latch onto the head and then, hopefully, shoot for the throat :)

I prefer to try to establish control immediately, which almost invariably comes from a head-hold.

To me, a head-hold is like the jab of a good boxer ... and going into the throat a right cross to finish.

It is harder to land your right cross, if you've not first established control/range/timing with your left jab.

Yup.. Only defense to a great head dog is a throat dog, but a head with finish... Great mold

[BRICKFACE]

Great topic...I've noticed my racier looking dogs have tremendous wind and athletic ability. My stout dogs have good wind with more power. My Bizzie gyp seems to have a well rounded blend of physic, strength, and wind. Would like to see if I can create dogs with the physical build, strength, and athleticism of Bizzie, with just a touch of more wind!!:shocked:

[Jrbulldogs]

We do similar things, just in reverse: I breed dogs that latch onto the head and then, hopefully, shoot for the throat :)

I prefer to try to establish control immediately, which almost invariably comes from a head-hold.

To me, a head-hold is like the jab of a good boxer ... and going into the throat a right cross to finish.

It is harder to land your right cross, if you've not first established control/range/timing with your left jab.great post,let the jab tenderise the opponent and then go in for the finish.

[CYJ]

There is a type of fighting style that can really mess up a head dog's game or about any other style. This is a dog that when the head dog grabs it. Does not chase or run after the head dog. Stands in the middle of pit and grabs the head or under near the throat or side of jaw muscle. Or go mouth to mouth.

This dog then will fall on it's back, drive it's legs forcefully up into the guts and underneath chest. Like a wild cat fights off the bottom. The top dog has all this weight dragging it's head down. All it can do is push the other dog around and try and bite down into the bottom dog. Getting it's nose and mouth severely chewed.

This type of dog when sensing the other dog is getting weak or losing it's hold and going for it's legs etc., will with fast moves be back up on it's feet driving into the guts, chest, backend, or deep into the lower chest.

This style fighting dog is very rare and seldom seen. They are smart bottom fighters that love the head, throat and nose and much more. Do not burn themselves out needlessly and conserve themselves for the long haul if needed. JMHO.

[Pit Bull Committed]

Poncho's sister Missy had a long body ...


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000003_03.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3)

But I prefer a perfectly square body like his daughter Screamer had: perfect balance:


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000221_01.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=221)

And Screamer's daughter Jezebel (bred back to Poncho) was the fastest, smartest, slickest, most athletic bitch I have ever owned:


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000219_02.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=219)

A total athlete if there ever was one ..

Jack
Jack, do you have a side view of her?

[Pit Bull Committed]

The 3 different body type I like!

http://i.imgur.com/TZjO5rf.jpg
9 month old gyp.

http://i.imgur.com/0nHEQrp.jpg
9 month old gyp.

http://i.imgur.com/mbXyUoJ.jpg
14 month old male.

All are in their chain weight/condition.

Box style don't really matter to me. What matters the most is that the dog of whatever style better be GREAT at their style. For example...A GREAT chest dog can put away a good head dog and vice versa. Like the great Ch Robert T was able to stop many "good" ch and Gr ch dogs...but he lost to a "GREAT" killer dog Ch Ninja. Yes, Ch Robert T finally lost at 9 years old...with that said, his head style was probably not as good as it use to be and that's exactly my point. Style don't matter too much to me... The dog just has to be GREAT at its style. ;)

[wrknapbt]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000221_01.jpg


I've watched this post for a second now and I gotta say that one thing I noticed is that a lot of the dogs that people like have really nice rear angulation which is a big point deduction in the ADBA ring. It is a know fact that these animals work from their rear to balance and drive into the other and it the dog is too straight it will tear a ncl or most that are too straight have slipping hocks that do not allow them to push from the rear as they should be able to do. I will also say that over the last 3 or more years I've seen the bone come back into the dogs. But CA Jack you said something that many people probably missed. BALANCE is the key. I like the way this girl was built. Normally female run a tad bit longer than males but this bitch is very square and balanced.

[Officially Retired]

Jack, do you have a side view of her?

Yes, click her picture.

[Officially Retired]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000221_01.jpg


I've watched this post for a second now and I gotta say that one thing I noticed is that a lot of the dogs that people like have really nice rear angulation which is a big point deduction in the ADBA ring. It is a know fact that these animals work from their rear to balance and drive into the other and it the dog is too straight it will tear a ncl or most that are too straight have slipping hocks that do not allow them to push from the rear as they should be able to do. I will also say that over the last 3 or more years I've seen the bone come back into the dogs. But CA Jack you said something that many people probably missed. BALANCE is the key. I like the way this girl was built. Normally female run a tad bit longer than males but this bitch is very square and balanced.

Good morning, and yes, that is why I liked her build also: it was balanced.

I also do not like most of the "show builds" that are being pumped up right now ... as most of the conformation winners I see these days look like NON-durable dogs ... that would fall apart to a true combat dog in the trenches.

I don't like too lanky of a dog. I like good bone and a good hide also. A dog with "carpet" for skin, as it were.

[Officially Retired]

Like the great Ch Robert T was able to stop many "good" ch and Gr ch dogs...but he lost to a "GREAT" killer dog Ch Ninja. Yes, Ch Robert T finally lost at 9 years old...with that said, his head style was probably not as good as it use to be and that's exactly my point. Style don't matter too much to me... The dog just has to be GREAT at its style. ;)
[/SIZE]


Um, Robert T's being 9 years old, and 9 fights-tired, had more to do with his losing than Ch Ninja's being the better dog. That and the fact Robert T broke his jaw in the first :10 ... old age = brittle bones ... and yet he still went 1:10 before he lost.

That is like singing the praises of Leon Spinks for beating an old, shopworn Muhammad Ali ... rather than having the sense to realize that Leon Spinks was A PIECE OF SHIT compared to a prime Ali :idea:

Jack

[Officially Retired]

There is a type of fighting style that can really mess up a head dog's game or about any other style. This is a dog that when the head dog grabs it. Does not chase or run after the head dog. Stands in the middle of pit and grabs the head or under near the throat or side of jaw muscle. Or go mouth to mouth.
This dog then will fall on it's back, drive it's legs forcefully up into the guts and underneath chest. Like a wild cat fights off the bottom. The top dog has all this weight dragging it's head down. All it can do is push the other dog around and try and bite down into the bottom dog. Getting it's nose and mouth severely chewed.
This type of dog when sensing the other dog is getting weak or losing it's hold and going for it's legs etc., will with fast moves be back up on it's feet driving into the guts, chest, backend, or deep into the lower chest.
This style fighting dog is very rare and seldom seen. They are smart bottom fighters that love the head, throat and nose and much more. Do not burn themselves out needlessly and conserve themselves for the long haul if needed. JMHO.

That depends on the head dog. The only way what you describe could happen is for the head dog to still be in front of the other dog. Which isn't really a true head dog to me.

A truly great head dog typically is PERPENDICULAR to the other dog, like a T (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=30210&thumbnail=3), DEEP in the ear or side of the face, so there is no way what you describe is going to happen.

That said, Poncho would do exactly what you described, if a palooka dog happened to get on his head or his ear, but NOT be at an angle to him (as above). The dogs I am thinking about had Poncho's ear, but were still in front of him, and Poncho would turn his free ear toward the floor, and get an angle up under the other dog's jaw muscle/throat, and just root-in there. He would also take the bottom, like you describe, and just relax and "stand up" on the other side of the dog, twisting its head in an awkward kinda way.

I saw him do that once or twice, but the other dogs weren't really "head dogs" -- they were just dumb dogs that tried to get feeble head holds. A truly good head dog pretty much has his opponent from the side, DEEP on the ear or head, and the opponent is pretty much biting nothing but AIR.

Jack

[EGK]

Pit bull Committed those are nice and what I myself like too. Dogs with Legs, strong build, good bone density, athletic, and square.

[skipper]

Nice post, and thanks for the compliments. I wish I had Missy all over again. Her son Silverback was a pretty good-looking dog also. The only dog I have left, Amazon, is a granddaughter of 2 of my 3 best bitches, Missy and Jezebel (Jezebel herself being a daughter of Screamer). Amazon therefore has strong, matriarchal heritage ... and is not a bad-looking bitch either:


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000222_01.jpg http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/dog_000222_04.jpg (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=222)

She has kindof a longish look in some angles, with a "high back end" like Evo mentioned ... and yet the classic "square" look of a true Poncho dog (that I like to see) in others.

Of key importance to me, structure-wise, is that Amazon also has a lonng, thick, powerful neck and heavy shoulders ... which are great for a head dog like she's born to be ... as well as for really rooting into the throat as I hope she turns out to be. A truly good head dog is STRONG and stops a dog in its tracks with its powerful head-hold ... and is hard to get to because of its long, thick, powerful neck ... itself anchored into a set of powerful shoulders.

I've not touched Amazon yet, and she's coming up on 3 years old, and is entering the prime of her life.

She certainly is bred to kick ass ... and she is also built to kick ass ... and I have little doubt she will ... if/when I ever decide to see for sure.

Those are fairly old photos and she looks even more powerful now ...

Jack


Amazon is a beautiful bitch. Well taken care of to.

[Thinker]

I like bulldogs that can do it all!! Whatever it takes to win... Bulldogs that are smart enough to adapt regardless of the situation or obstacle...

[Officially Retired]

Amazon is a beautiful bitch. Well taken care of to.

Thank you :)

[ragedog10]

There is a type of fighting style that can really mess up a head dog's game or about any other style. This is a dog that when the head dog grabs it. Does not chase or run after the head dog. Stands in the middle of pit and grabs the head or under near the throat or side of jaw muscle. Or go mouth to mouth.

This dog then will fall on it's back, drive it's legs forcefully up into the guts and underneath chest. Like a wild cat fights off the bottom. The top dog has all this weight dragging it's head down. All it can do is push the other dog around and try and bite down into the bottom dog. Getting it's nose and mouth severely chewed.

This type of dog when sensing the other dog is getting weak or losing it's hold and going for it's legs etc., will with fast moves be back up on it's feet driving into the guts, chest, backend, or deep into the lower chest.

This style fighting dog is very rare and seldom seen. They are smart bottom fighters that love the head, throat and nose and much more. Do not burn themselves out needlessly and conserve themselves for the long haul if needed. JMHO. I would second you to that as one of my very best hounds was that style take bottom hold you out make you work trying to catch him and the second you take a deep breath he's breaking your shoulders