STUD DOGS????

[Acesaun]

What qualifies a dog to be a stud dog? As I look at some of these stud dogs that are being put up for stud I see that they either don't have offsprings, they've been breed a million time and you never hear anything about the offsprings and when you inquire about them you get hit with the line that they didn't work out because of what he was breed too:shocked. Now I've never had a stud dog and when I do get to that point I want to know for a fact what my stud is throwing I don't want to just stud him out because he's inbred,or from a known breeder,or because some old head said it's some old blood, shit a lot of old blood didn't work!!!

[evolutionkennels]

A dog with a dick and at least one nut with a good semen count who is willing to mount your bitch and copulate until he ties up your bitch and injects some of that said semen into your bitch that has hopefully ovulated thereby impregnating your bitch can be considered a stud dog, whether he is a dalmatian or a poodle. Now , whether or not he is producing show quality dogs is an altogether different question.

Keep in mind, in this day and age, the laws being what they are, NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT FUCKING MIND is going to tell you details about a felony. Especially if you are "new" or don't have any accomplishments.

Example, if STP, Size Up, Havana Boys, Jack, or any other well known and experienced dogman calls me and asks for details, I'll give them details. But anyone else, THAT I DO NOT KNOW, THAT COULD BE HSUS, ASPCA ,PETA, or worse the Executive department of our system? ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD GIVE DETAILS TO A STRANGER WHO MORE THAN LIKELY IS A DEADBEAT ANYWAY THAT IS WASTING HIS NOT SO PRECIOUS TIME. Would you risk your freedom for potential stud fee? Hell no, so keep that in mind before you get all upset because someone doesn't want to give you details, ITS A DIFFERENT WORLD. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, If hes producing well, you'll know it. If YOU like the dog, BREED TO IT, if NOT, breed your own.

[Acesaun]

Don't make me crack my knuckles, when some idiot calls me and asks me what my dogs did in thier last hunt, I just hang up. That's not the questions people ask. And probably not what you are referring too. It's a slippery slope, you say he throws finish, you'll ask where.. And so forth. Anything posted on here is heresay, but if someone ask you a direct question about YOUR stud, and that happens to be someone building a case, let's just say it's better to tell that person to go fuck themselves.

I totally agree!!! But I would hope know one is dumb enough to answer the question in an incriminating way, That's why I ask for opinions not for someone to give me their actual experience and if I have to ask for more in-depth detail I don't necessarily need the stud...

[Officially Retired]

I totally agree!!! But I would hope know one is dumb enough to answer the question in an incriminating way, That's why I ask for opinions not for someone to give me their actual experience and if I have to ask for more in-depth detail I don't necessarily need the stud...


It works both ways:

If the owner of the stud has never heard of the guy who's calling him asking questions ... then the stud owner doesn't need the customer.

The truth is, if any guy is at the stage of the game where he's still wondering, "What qualifies a dog to be a stud?", then he's probably not yet reached the level where he's breeding anything worth talking about in his own right ...

Typically, guys who are repeatedly and consistently breeding winners, and top-shelf dogs, automatically trust the judgement of other dogmen who themselves are repeatedly and consistently breeding winners ... precisely because of the very fact they're able to do this.

By contrast, it is typically only green blowhards, who haven't yet mastered anything, who "can't believe" and who "doubt everything" ... precisely because they themselves can't yet make anything work :idea:

Jack

[BRIGHT25KNLS]

:-? Why is that some people just don't get it when it comes to these dogs I think one should have enough common sense and learn to READ BETWEEN THE LINES in convoy when inquiring about a stud and find out the pros and cons of the kennel who owns the stud in which you inquire with all these social media you will hear the bad and good or better yet ask real dog men around your area about the TRAITS OF WHICH THAT LINE IS KNOWN FOR . BREEDING THESE DOGS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE MAKE THIS SO HARD TO REALIZE EVERY PUP OR BREEDING DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE NOT JUST THE NAME!

[Officially Retired]

What qualifies a dog to be a stud dog? As I look at some of these stud dogs that are being put up for stud I see that they either don't have offsprings, they've been breed a million time and you never hear anything about the offsprings and when you inquire about them you get hit with the line that they didn't work out because of what he was breed too:shocked. Now I've never had a stud dog and when I do get to that point I want to know for a fact what my stud is throwing I don't want to just stud him out because he's inbred,or from a known breeder,or because some old head said it's some old blood, shit a lot of old blood didn't work!!!


I will try to answer the original question with a one-liner, since nobody seems to like to read more than a paragraph these days.

Unfortunately, true knowledge takes more than "one line" of text to be gained, and more than 1 year of experience to be understood, but I will do the best I can in one line for the impatient:


"What qualifies a dog as 'a stud dog' is its genetic likelihood to produce dogs capable of winning consistently in open competition."

That likelihood can be either proven, by what it's produced already, or theoretical, by what a knowledgeable dogman can reasonably expect of the dog's pups, based on accurate assessment of said dog's genetic background, as well as the animal's own athletic/mental strengths/weaknesses as an individual.

That is as short & sweet as I can make it ... for those who don't like to read much ... but the truth is all of what I said is FILLED with implications/material that could be opened-up and discussed for pages-worth :twisted:

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

I totally agree!!! But I would hope know one is dumb enough to answer the question in an incriminating way, That's why I ask for opinions not for someone to give me their actual experience and if I have to ask for more in-depth detail I don't necessarily need the stud...


I always found it hilarious when people call you about your stud, to ask questions. In all my years, I have never in my life called someone to breed to their dog, and them ask them to sell me on it. I either want to breed to thier dog or not. Period. And if I call, it's because I've already done my research, and I think it will go good with my stock, or for whatever reason, all I want to know is how much and where. Period.

[Acesaun]

Smart of you to delete that last one ... I deleted my response too.

My best short answer is above; my best long answer is in the article to which I already referred.

Jack

Thanks I just never took the initiative to read it this forum has so much going on I'm still figuring it out..

[Officially Retired]

Thanks I just never took the initiative to read it this forum has so much going on I'm still figuring it out..


Understandable ... there really are a lot of good articles in here, if you take the time to look around.

The forum can be a fun place, but there are a lot of meat & potatoes elsewhere (videos/articles).

There are also dialogue boxes under each article to where specific questions can be asked (or specific disagreements started).

It's frustrating to want to cram all the knowledge into your head at once ... or to want to "reach conclusions" without putting in the work to make good decisions.

As the saying goes, "I don't want the labor pains, I just want the baby." :lol:

We've all been there. We've all "repeated what we've heard."

True knowledge simply takes time and it simply takes effort. There is no other way to get it.

The truth is, "good" and "great" dogs come in many different sizes, shapes, breedings, styles, percentages, etc.

The key is to develop an eye, to neither expect too much from any dog, nor too little, but to have a REASONABLE (and accurate) estimation of what "consistently-good" means ... performance-wise and consistency-wise as to a dog's ability to produce the former.

All of this is words, though.
Words are the only way to communicate, but ONLY if you "relate" to (feel/understand) the words will you actually have knowledge.
So be careful when you say you "don't want to relate," because in fact you SHOULD want to relate to people who are truly knowledgeable :idea:

Ultimately, if you latch onto something good, stick with it and refine it to your liking, you won't need words anymore. And you won't need anyone else's studs either.

You will just be able to look out at your own yard, know where the best ones are, know what will go with what, and be satisfied with what you have.
But again, this takes time :idea:

When you're starting out though, you do need to ask questions. I agree with what Evo says about doing homework prior. However, sometimes you might call a breeder with (say) 60 dogs of a given bloodline ... and you might not be familiar with all that he has on his yard. Nor how everything's bred. Sometimes you gotta ask certain questions to get certain answers.

It can put a breeder on the defensive if you're too "exact" in what you're talking about, if he doesn't know you.
I found out a lot about the Bolio bloodline by asking Patrick a thousand questions over a lot of years.
And I found out a lot more by rolling a lot of dogs from that bloodline over a lot of years also ... I can promise you I didn't gain it all over night.

People who are into my dogs found out a lot about my dogs by asking me a thousand questions over a lot of years and by looking at a lot of my dogs.
That's what you gotta do to learn; you can't just "get knowledge" from a post or two. You have to put in the time, and you have to put in the work.

Breeders have to take care of themselves, and yet be understanding also. It's a hard row to hoe for both ... and personally I am glad I no longer have to worry about it ... though I also miss hearing the excitement in a customer's voice when one of his from me whipped some "big name" in their area and put them on the map :lol:

One thing I can tell you is decide what you like, style-wise, and then do your homework as to what produces it consistently (bloodline-wise).
Then try to buy dogs of that bloodline until you get a solid facsimile of what you want.
Once you do, once you get a key individual or two that is (and produces) what you want ... breed your own off of those dogs at that point ... follow the proven breeding patterns outlined in my article (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/content.php?171) ... and as long as your dogs fall in line with what you want, and win more than they lose, keep doing what you're doing.

Jack

[brokeback]

^^^ Good post.

[ragedog10]

On the original post most not all breed because of the blood,some breed for marking and other breeding are done just because they have a male and female! dig deeper into any line off hounds that your interested in! Also try to reframe from asking questions that May have you looked at as a green horn! Nothing wrong with it in my eyes I have had dog all of 30 plus years and I'm always learning something new! bottom line is your the owner are the deciding factor of what a stud dog is!

[EWO]

In the non-dog world if a person says that a dog is "full-blooded" (one of my favorite terms, I mean is the half full of blood based on his parents lineage?) In the non-dog world full-blooded and 'having papers' is an automatic qualifier to be a stud dog. It goes from there all the way to people who do it professionally who can say this is a stud dog and he has produced this trait to this many puppies off this many bitches. And anywhere in between.

As a person looking to pay a stud fee you have every right to ask whatever question you feel fit because it is your money you are spending. Whether those questions are legitimate, stupid, educated, or with legal repercussions down the road. It is your money and it is your right to ask anything you choose.

With that said, the owner of the stud dog in response to your question has every right to hang up (it is his phone), tell you to get F*&^%$. (he has rights too) or not answer any questions about his stud dog because it his dog and his business.

It is a give and take situation. If a guy really wants to breed to said dog he has to educate himself on that dog as much as he possibly can and approach the owner with some common sense. I mean it is not like these dogs are the same as selling Girl Scout cookies.

If a guy puts a stud dog out there he has to expect an occasional retard to call, and at times the dumbasses will out number the educated. It sways both ways. If it is such a bother then don't put him out there. Keep him to yourself/your close (close)circle and make everyone else jealous.

Last week a friend of mine advertised his Bantam roosters for sale on our local "Tradio-Radio". Some young kid has called him twenty times in the past week wanted to know if he still had cocks for sale? How big is the cock? How long is the cock? What size cock-ring would be needed? Juvenile, to say the least, but he put his phone number out there. There are certain risks involved.

So when something is advertised on the internet I would expect a certain percentage of, let's say fruitless calls.

I inherited a Honeybunch bred male. I offered him for stud as well. My worse calls are when I choose not to do it for puppies. Lots of people take offense as it is taken as a slight on their bitch. The stud dog deal is a double edged sword, but it is the best and cheapest way to improve a persons yard.

Rambling again, waiting on tanks to pump out. EWO

[Acesaun]

Thanks EWO for responding to the post like a gentlemen..

[S_B]

Jack and EVO hit the nail on the head!


Lots of people take offense as it is taken as a slight on their bitch. The stud dog deal is a double edged sword, but it is the best and cheapest way to improve a persons yard.

:-bd EWO!

[widerange]

I thought this was closed? I would like to change the question up some so that this post can be used to help out others. So here we go..... As far as stud dogs go. When looking for a stud dog to improve your yard, no matter if the stud is on or off your yard what are something's you look for in a stud dog. Now I'm guessing that we all do breedings to improve what we are feeding. And since we all breed and raise dogs for different traits there should be a range of different answers? On top of this let's say that everyone does things in the right way when looking for a stud off of their own yard. Now the right way can be the way you would go about it and that's fine but the way you seek out a stud is not the question so how you would contact doesn't have to be included in the answer. So again the question is when seeking out a stud dog that you breed own or off your yard what traits, percentages,camp, etc.... Do you look for to improve what your doing with your dogs?

[widerange]

No one has nothing at all