drying out naturally

[Loki]

I read a thread here about drying one out with dex. Since I prefer to keep things natural, I was wondering if anyone had any methods of doing so all natural. What are good ways of rubbing one down to help with expelling excess water.

Thanks in advance!

[FrostyPaws]

A dog rids itself of excess water simply because of that. It's excess. Rubbing one down won't contribute to the urination. If the dog doesn't have enough water, there won't be any excess to essentially urinate. If your dog isn't getting enough water throughout his keep, you won't be able to pull any excess of him. The body will hold onto the water it has instead of ridding itself of the water. You essentially have to hyperhydrate your dog to do what you're asking.

[Loki]

Well the last one i showed i pretty much followed the process you laid out in the "drying without dex" thread(or atleast i think that was the name of it). Where you stated you gave about an ounce per lb of body weight of fluids. Then if im not mistaken you said you controlled water intake last few days. I tried this and couldnt get the water off. So 4 hours before the show i hit him with 1cc of dex (following some advice) he came in on weight but he was only 7 ounces over at that time. So he had plenty of time to urinate more on walks. Anyway the result was a 3 hour loss. All of the mouth i saw in schooling was gone at the show. Some say dex played a role in this, idk as i have no proof of that, but he also wasnt as tenacious as he usually is. I'll chunk the loss up to me not doing my job as he showed all the heart in the world.

All statements are purely fictional and used for entertainment purposes only!

[Nut]

If you go back to normal 3 days out and you stay on same food you should go down. I try to be spot on a week out, than up the food when i start cutting back water to normal, cause i know weight will drop some. So don't know what went wrong or what it is that you wanted to achieve? By giving that much water in training, there is no water retention(not the other way around) and most excessive water will just be pissed out within 24 houres. Maybe you expected the dog to lose more.

How much water did you give when u started cutting back, and how much overweight were u when u started cutting it back?

The term drying out sounds kind of creepy. If you draw out water from your dog's muscles so do you draw out crucial electrolytes.

[sofkennels]

I fight mma and Thai boxing, our New trainer will not let us dry out. (No sauna or sweat suits) He is a nutritionist and controls our weights with purely diet. The results, we still come in on weight and I honestly feel better and stronger the day of competition with less fatigue during. I'm hoping to hear Jack's response to this question.... Will this have the same effect on dogs? If not, then why not?

[Macker]

A dog weighs in the same day as a show, it's completely different to martial arts.
In Thai boxing, mma and boxing you weigh in 24 hours before a fight, the idea of drying yourself out and sweat training is so you usually fight at a lighter natural weight because you have 24 hours to rehydrate, if your doing your cut through diet and not cutting water then the thing you face is the strong possibility of fighting a bigger man. I'm Thai boxing and mma this wasn't a huge deal as guys didn't really know much about cutting weight but in later years the mma guys have really caught on which is why you have huge guys at the weight. In boxing you just wouldn't have ever got away with it because the professional edge of the sport had the athletes way more advanced.
The reason you way in 24 hours in advance is for fighter safety around dehydration.

[sofkennels]

Yes and no. Where I'm at some shows we do weigh in 24 hours in advance but also have same day weigh ins only a couple hours before hand and same results. But I see what you're saying.

[Macker]

Obviously the same day weigh ins are in amateur competition?? Professional fighters always weigh in 24 hours in advance. I've been around the fight game most of my life and any true pro I know cuts a considerable amount of water weight before they weigh in.
Think we're getting off topic a bit lol.

[sofkennels]

Yes indeed lol. There are pro am shows we still do day of but either way I'd still like to know how that would work for the dogs. I'm curious if just purely controlling diet and not dehydrating at all will work as well in animals? Maybe I'll just give it a practice run to find out lol

[ragedog10]

We dont like to use dex in that manner of drying out! I can tell when someone lost their cool just because they were a pound over 12-24 hours out!
Dog looks to to dry!
For me i always have to play with their water as they loose lots of it just from work!
They weight is recored every 12hours and before and after work that way i know how much was water weight!
Then might add a cup or two with their feed along with clean water that is left with them for 10Hours and only taken away two hours before work!
I have seen likes of CH Rasco get #4 and pass because of being a pound over and dex till he went from looking like a action figure to looking like a bag of bones!
I say that to say if your going to dry with it master it first!

[Nut]

Yes indeed lol. There are pro am shows we still do day of but either way I'd still like to know how that would work for the dogs. I'm curious if just purely controlling diet and not dehydrating at all will work as well in animals? Maybe I'll just give it a practice run to find out lol

There is no winning dogman that dehydrates their dog for a show. Period

[Officially Retired]

A dog weighs in the same day as a show, it's completely different to martial arts.
In Thai boxing, mma and boxing you weigh in 24 hours before a fight, the idea of drying yourself out and sweat training is so you usually fight at a lighter natural weight because you have 24 hours to rehydrate, if your doing your cut through diet and not cutting water then the thing you face is the strong possibility of fighting a bigger man. I'm Thai boxing and mma this wasn't a huge deal as guys didn't really know much about cutting weight but in later years the mma guys have really caught on which is why you have huge guys at the weight. In boxing you just wouldn't have ever got away with it because the professional edge of the sport had the athletes way more advanced.
The reason you way in 24 hours in advance is for fighter safety around dehydration.

:idea:

[gotap_d]

There is no winning dogman that dehydrates their dog for a show. Period

In fact there are plenty of winning dogmen that dry there dogs out. There are also a lot of variables that i believe need to be taken into consideration. For example everyones definition of drying out is not the same. Some people like to come in with a 1/2 to a 1 count and some people come in with a 3 count. Some people also give their dogs fluids after they weigh in. Is the dog completely hydrated after that probably not but he will be better off if it goes the long haul with some fluids back in him than no fluids in him imo.

[Nut]

Theres a difference in 2 count and being dehydrated. Is it my poor english or would you consider it's the same.

[Officially Retired]

There is no winning dogman that dehydrates their dog for a show. Period


In fact there are plenty of winning dogmen that dry there dogs out. There are also a lot of variables that i believe need to be taken into consideration. For example everyones definition of drying out is not the same. Some people like to come in with a 1/2 to a 1 count and some people come in with a 3 count. Some people also give their dogs fluids after they weigh in. Is the dog completely hydrated after that probably not but he will be better off if it goes the long haul with some fluids back in him than no fluids in him imo.

There is indeed a confusion/muddling of words here ... DEHAYDRATE and "dry out" are not the same thing necessarily ...

[arsuffi@att.net]

To set my dogs moister I have always used salt in their diet and always tried to bring them in as hydrated as possibie

[EWO]

Comparing the dog being weighed and immediately competing vs. a guy making weight and rehydrating over a 24 hour period is pretty much apples and oranges. One the human only has to make a certain weight. He then competes at a different weight so he can actually go down to unhealthy levels, levels he could not perform at, and then rehydrates to a weight where he can compete. The dog must be brought to a weight with a 'certain amount of water' and then compete at that weight.

Picking the correct weight with a dog is far more important because the dog actually competes at this weight. The human can make weight and rehydrate 10-15 pounds or more in a 24 hour period.

And like Jack said, one has to be careful with the terminology. Drying out and dehydrating are two different things. Just as dehydrating and dehydrated are two completely different things. One is a process and one is the end result.

EWO

[Officially Retired]

Comparing the dog being weighed and immediately competing vs. a guy making weight and rehydrating over a 24 hour period is pretty much apples and oranges. One the human only has to make a certain weight. He then competes at a different weight so he can actually go down to unhealthy levels, levels he could not perform at, and then rehydrates to a weight where he can compete. The dog must be brought to a weight with a 'certain amount of water' and then compete at that weight.

Picking the correct weight with a dog is far more important because the dog actually competes at this weight. The human can make weight and rehydrate 10-15 pounds or more in a 24 hour period.

And like Jack said, one has to be careful with the terminology. Drying out and dehydrating are two different things. Just as dehydrating and dehydrated are two completely different things. One is a process and one is the end result.

EWO

Perfectly said :appl:

[Macker]

Comparing the dog being weighed and immediately competing vs. a guy making weight and rehydrating over a 24 hour period is pretty much apples and oranges. One the human only has to make a certain weight. He then competes at a different weight so he can actually go down to unhealthy levels, levels he could not perform at, and then rehydrates to a weight where he can compete. The dog must be brought to a weight with a 'certain amount of water' and then compete at that weight.

Picking the correct weight with a dog is far more important because the dog actually competes at this weight. The human can make weight and rehydrate 10-15 pounds or more in a 24 hour period.

And like Jack said, one has to be careful with the terminology. Drying out and dehydrating are two different things. Just as dehydrating and dehydrated are two completely different things. One is a process and one is the end result.

EWO

That's what I was trying to say lol

[gotap_d]

Comparing the dog being weighed and immediately competing vs. a guy making weight and rehydrating over a 24 hour period is pretty much apples and oranges. One the human only has to make a certain weight. He then competes at a different weight so he can actually go down to unhealthy levels, levels he could not perform at, and then rehydrates to a weight where he can compete. The dog must be brought to a weight with a 'certain amount of water' and then compete at that weight.

Picking the correct weight with a dog is far more important because the dog actually competes at this weight. The human can make weight and rehydrate 10-15 pounds or more in a 24 hour period.

And like Jack said, one has to be careful with the terminology. Drying out and dehydrating are two different things. Just as dehydrating and dehydrated are two completely different things. One is a process and one is the end result.

EWO

Well said. Most people try to compare dogs making weight with boxers or mma fighters making weight but it is an incorrect comparison for the reasons stated above. The more appropriate comparison would be between the dog and a professional body builder. The training stages are very similar. Body builders are at their weakest and worst health during their contest because of low body fat and extreme dehydration which us very similar to a dog's weight being pulled down too far and dehydrated.

[bulldoghistorian]

I never had a dog have a 1 or 2 count naturally
My guess is one would have to drop significantly in weight and or reduce water intake

I wouldn't recommend neither unless you absolutely sure what your doing and can do regular blood counts

I have used roids to get to that 1 or 2 count but it heavily depends on what type of dog I am using and the work out

[FrostyPaws]

Well the last one i showed i pretty much followed the process you laid out in the "drying without dex" thread(or atleast i think that was the name of it). Where you stated you gave about an ounce per lb of body weight of fluids. Then if im not mistaken you said you controlled water intake last few days. I tried this and couldnt get the water off. So 4 hours before the show i hit him with 1cc of dex (following some advice) he came in on weight but he was only 7 ounces over at that time. So he had plenty of time to urinate more on walks. Anyway the result was a 3 hour loss. All of the mouth i saw in schooling was gone at the show. Some say dex played a role in this, idk as i have no proof of that, but he also wasnt as tenacious as he usually is. I'll chunk the loss up to me not doing my job as he showed all the heart in the world.

All statements are purely fictional and used for entertainment purposes only!

It's a learning process. The first time I tried it, I couldn't get the water off either. It has a learning curve to it in order to do it for most people. It does work and no dex is needed. I don't even remember the last time dex was used to pull excess water of an animal. I can tell you this. Dex has nothing to do with losing mouth, and the same goes for being tenacious. Sometimes, you simply run into a better dog, or one as good, as it seems to be evidenced by a three hour loss.

[Loki]

It's a learning process. The first time I tried it, I couldn't get the water off either. It has a learning curve to it in order to do it for most people. It does work and no dex is needed. I don't even remember the last time dex was used to pull excess water of an animal. I can tell you this. Dex has nothing to do with losing mouth, and the same goes for being tenacious. Sometimes, you simply run into a better dog, or one as good, as it seems to be evidenced by a three hour loss.

I wouldnt say he was better but i will say he was in better shape! You are probably correct about the dex not having anythign to do with loss of mouth but i have seen this animal punish hogs when he hits his spots and during the show he reached those spots but showed very little mouth. He did some damage but not what i was used to. Probably had more to do with shaping or wrong weight. I have no problem taking the blame for what could have been my fault. One thing for sure is both was game and if i ever had to take a loss it would be in this fashion.

For your method do you look for some sort of skin count? This hound was hard for me to figure out. He didnt like to work, AT ALL! Used alot of e-mill on him and walks. Feed consisted of lots of raw chicken which i know contains lots of water. So when it comes time to tweak water intake, should i adjust his raw intake?

Thanks for all the helpful responses. Knowledge is power and this site has plenty of it!

[bulldoghistorian]

I've heard that myth before about loosing mouth with dex
I don't think its true either

I have lost about 10 to 15 shows , every excuse I could have made I must admit I have won far more making the same mistake or worse
fact is sometimes you just run into a better dog

I have been conditioning dogs on raw since around 2000 or so
when you have them on raw they barely drink at all

[Officially Retired]

It's a learning process. The first time I tried it, I couldn't get the water off either. It has a learning curve to it in order to do it for most people. It does work and no dex is needed. I don't even remember the last time dex was used to pull excess water of an animal. I can tell you this. Dex has nothing to do with losing mouth, and the same goes for being tenacious. Sometimes, you simply run into a better dog, or one as good, as it seems to be evidenced by a three hour loss.

I personally saw this bitch, The Mason's Aurora (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7448), totally turned to shit in her match, by being mainlined solu-delta cortef 5 min before the show. Her genius owners thought this would be a good thing to do, despite my suggestions to the contrary, and she was totally zoned out, off-timing, ran hot and quit in like :30 (where, pulled off the chain, she was a freak of nature: strong, fast, devastating).

You can "say" the other dog was better, if you want to, but the other dog wasn't shit.

Aurora was simply totally affected by the drug they put in her veins, and it cost her the match, and it cost her her life.

Drugs REALLY CAN make dogs "feel weird," same as they can make people feel weird, and so to deny this fact isn't being very accurate IMO.

Jack

[S_B]

Some side effects of dexamethasone include:
Headache, dizziness (spinning sensation), low potassium (confusion, extreme thurst, muscle weakness, uneven heart rate), low blood pressure (buzzing in ears, headache, confusion, shortness of breath, seizure, anxiety) etc.

Each individual dog will react differently one can not rule out the possibility of dex contributing negatively to an individual dogs performance.

This is why it is important to know how this will effect your charge beforehand:idea:

[bulldoghistorian]

Some side effects of dexamethasone include:
Headache, dizziness (spinning sensation), low potassium (confusion, extreme thurst, muscle weakness, uneven heart rate), low blood pressure (buzzing in ears, headache, confusion, shortness of breath, seizure, anxiety) etc.

Each individual dog will react differently one can not rule out the possibility of dex contributing negatively to an individual dogs performance.

This is why it is important to know how this will effect your charge beforehand:idea:

same goes for roids

[Officially Retired]

Some side effects of dexamethasone include:
Headache, dizziness (spinning sensation), low potassium (confusion, extreme thurst, muscle weakness, uneven heart rate), low blood pressure (buzzing in ears, headache, confusion, shortness of breath, seizure, anxiety) etc.

Each individual dog will react differently one can not rule out the possibility of dex contributing negatively to an individual dogs performance.

This is why it is important to know how this will effect your charge beforehand:idea:


That is exactly how Aurora acted: confused, dizzy, etc.

She was MAINLINED, not given under the skin, they shot it in her IV :05 before the show.

That was the best-bred, baddest Bolio bitch alive; she was devastating at her best.

But not only did they decide to do her at 7 years of age, but they mainlined her solu-delta right before ... and it totally ruined her.

She was still glassy-eyed, and panting severely, :30 after the show.

They insisted on killing her ... but I would have been happy to take that bitch home, based on what I knew she was before being fucked-off by monkeys fiddling with a Swiss watch.

Waste of a beautifully-bred, devastating animal.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

PS: the other dog was only on Aurora's head, holding her off.

Aurora never took a backward step, driving hard, but "off" in her timing, and running extremely hot ...

She ultimately collapsed, on her elbows, totally exhausted, glassy-eyed, again running unnaturally hot, IMO because of what was injected into her veins.

When they moved the other bitch, to take her out, Aurora tried to go for the movement.

But they still put her down. Idiots IMO ...

[Nut]

if u read those sideeffects, i think it could very well cause a lack of mouth think it depends at what time before a show and how much was given. never used dex before and would never use it if i was under.

[gotap_d]

I know for a fact those drugs can affect your animal. I saw the most fight crazy dog you would ever want to see get bred naturally. When the guys said they were going to breed him i asked if they were going to collect him and do an A.I. breeding they said no. I told them they would never be able to breed him like that and they said just watch. The administered a few cc's of dex and about 45mins later the dog looked confused and a lot calmer around the gyp and they got him bred and the bitch took.

[Loki]

I personally saw this bitch, The Mason's Aurora (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=7448), totally turned to shit in her match, by being mainlined solu-delta cortef 5 min before the show. Her genius owners thought this would be a good thing to do, despite my suggestions to the contrary, and she was totally zoned out, off-timing, ran hot and quit in like :30 (where, pulled off the chain, she was a freak of nature: strong, fast, devastating).

You can "say" the other dog was better, if you want to, but the other dog wasn't shit.

Aurora was simply totally affected by the drug they put in her veins, and it cost her the match, and it cost her her life.

Drugs REALLY CAN make dogs "feel weird," same as they can make people feel weird, and so to deny this fact isn't being very accurate IMO.

Jack

I dont like to make excuses, i have accepted my fate in that show but now that you have said this i feel more confident that dex played a negative role in the bout. It definitely didnt have as devastating effects as the ones you have mentioned but did have effects none the less.



if u read those sideeffects, i think it could very well cause a lack of mouth think it depends at what time before a show and how much was given. never used dex before and would never use it if i was under.

Agreed!


Some side effects of dexamethasone include:
Headache, dizziness (spinning sensation), low potassium (confusion, extreme thurst, muscle weakness, uneven heart rate), low blood pressure (buzzing in ears, headache, confusion, shortness of breath, seizure, anxiety) etc.

Each individual dog will react differently one can not rule out the possibility of dex contributing negatively to an individual dogs performance.

This is why it is important to know how this will effect your charge beforehand:idea:

He tried to drink the water when he was being washed. He shouldnt have been thirsty as he hadnt been consuming water i had left for him in the days leading up to the show, nor did he drink the night before. To think that he bulldogged through any of those side effects sickens me that i didnt pick him up sooner...


I know for a fact those drugs can affect your animal. I saw the most fight crazy dog you would ever want to see get bred naturally. When the guys said they were going to breed him i asked if they were going to collect him and do an A.I. breeding they said no. I told them they would never be able to breed him like that and they said just watch. The administered a few cc's of dex and about 45mins later the dog looked confused and a lot calmer around the gyp and they got him bred and the bitch took.

In this case only a single cc was administered 4 hours before the show. Which imo wasnt needed but you live and learn...

[FrostyPaws]

If you want to know how dex effects your dog, use it before a roll. Just like if you want to know if your female is squirrely in heat, look at her when she's in heat. Ounce of prevention or a pound of cure? Honestly, I've never owned a dog that had such issues with dex given before a show. There was a time where I would give it a few hours before a show with no ill effects.

In regards to Aurora, you can't always account for stupidity. I have never seen any reputable, quality dogman ever do any such thing, and if I had, he would instantly become a fuckin moron.

Loki, if you have a dog that doesn't work hard, then something will have to be adjusted whether it's calorie intake or water intake. I've had dogs that were lazy on the same method of hydration, and there were times where I had to adjust something in order for it to work. If he's not working hard enough, then he's not going to burn excess calories, and that's usually what needs to be adjusted as they will just piss out excess water. I rarely bother with a skin count anymore honestly as I've done this particular thing for such a long time now. When I first started doing it, sure I judged by a skin count. It's just not something I do now.

Loki, you don't know if he had ANY of those side effects. There have been thousands of dogs not look like what you've seen before when they run into the right dog, so don't beat yourself up over something that probably had nothing to do with it.

[FrostyPaws]

I know for a fact those drugs can affect your animal. I saw the most fight crazy dog you would ever want to see get bred naturally. When the guys said they were going to breed him i asked if they were going to collect him and do an A.I. breeding they said no. I told them they would never be able to breed him like that and they said just watch. The administered a few cc's of dex and about 45mins later the dog looked confused and a lot calmer around the gyp and they got him bred and the bitch took.

I agree that drugs can, and will, effect some dogs. They won't effect all dogs the same way, or at all, for that matter. I tried that with my fight crazy dog here. It didn't work. So even now, he still has to be AI'd to produce pups, that silly fuck.

[Officially Retired]

In regards to Aurora, you can't always account for stupidity. I have never seen any reputable, quality dogman ever do any such thing, and if I had, he would instantly become a fuckin moron.

That is pretty much what happened. I lost all respect for both after this deal. This isn't hearsay; I was there and watched it happen.

Poncho was only 13 months, so my opinion didn't matter to those guys at the time, but it still sickens me not just that they did this, but that they put the bitch down because they were embarrassed.

Stupidity is one thing, as are mistakes, but don't blame the dog for being a fuckin moron, just say, "Okay, I was a fuckin moron."

Aurora was a truly badass bitch that nothing lived passed :30 with, same with her mama Speedy. She looked just like her aunt, Coco Baby (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=5853), except she was taller and racier.

Jack

[dtakennels]

Why would anyone give a dog solu-delta before a show.....That brings a dog out of shock after a long hard battle.....It can also kill a dog if given at the wrong time....Didn't Sandman pass for this very reason after the deal with Buck.....

[FrostyPaws]

Sandman passed away because someone used epinephrine, after the show, when it wasn't needed. That's what killed Sandman, if that story is to be believed.

[bullyson]

Theres been a lot said about the pros and cons of "dryin or not drying a dog out" but what about the reason why people feel it necessary to do this in the first place ? I was told when I first started out that a "wet" dog will run hot and the closer you can get to drying a dog out without going over the proverbial edge of dehydration the better . These so called experts would even joke around and say things like "Hes so dry he farts dust " I have found out that this way of thinking is outdated and ignorant and totally contrary to common sense as well as modern conditioning truths. All of these questions should be answered through out the 8 weeks that you are conditioning your athlete not the week before the show ! If you are waiting till your a week out to figure this out then your behind already my friends. I always try to remind myself that my dog is COUNTING on me to know what the fuck im doing and WHY !! Pardon my French but like Jack mentioned earlier I also have seen things that so called experienced dog men do that boggle the mind . WATER should never be the determining factor of making weight ! If your having weight issues and are in danger of coming in over "you fucked up" don't make the dog pay for it by putting all kinds of shit in him that hes not used to . Dogs are creatures of habit and we should always try our very best to not change anything i.e feeding,water intake, sleep schedule etc. Do your dog the favor and man up and stop at the ATM before you arrive and withdraw the amount needed to pay for your mistake and if anyone takes offense of what I have written then I have a few weights open 8)

[EWO]

Very true. Good post. Peak conditioning is a fine line. It is both hard to do and somewhat unhealthy to stay at peak condition for any length of time. In any weight loss regimen, water is usually the first to go, then fat, and without fat and water the next to go is muscle. Lost fat and lost muscle can't be quickly replaced or removed with the addition of water. The weight is so much more than just a number. If a 50lb. dog needs to be 49 any sort of diuretic process can get him there, but at that point 49 is just a number not his "weight". If that 50lb. dog is on 49 letting him drink a pound of water to get to 50 is not smart and neither is 'drying a dog to weight'.

At peak conditioning there is an optimal weight. That weight has to be in the correct ratio between water, fat and muscle (bones/internals/skin and coat is usually a constant and the other three are the variables).

Optimal conditioning is like a perfect triangle. The bottom is the start point of an 8 week keep (or what ever time frame). Everything moves evenly from the bottom to the top and the very tip of the triangle, its sharpest point is the very spot some guy says 'Release your dogs'. Adjusting that point at the last minute or holding that point for any length of time is detrimental.

Like the Bullyson post said. Go to the ATM and pay for your mistake. Or, get the guy's address, shoot your dog and mail him the money. At least you will save on the gas money.

And with all that said, I still believe a lot of these dogs perform in spite of our efforts. That is what makes them amazing. EWO

[bullyson]

Well said my friend !!!

[EWO]

Calling the correct weight for a dog is an art. The easiest way to 'find the eye' or 'learn the art' is to keep dogs in really good shape all year. Well fed, lean and fit, healthy and free of parasites, great housing, clean chain spots, etc..etc.. Even the best can't look at a dog 10lbs over and do a two week keep and call that perfect weight. Their best guess will be either lucky or wrong, usually wrong. And the opposite is true as well, wormy, underfed, 'skinny' dogs are a hard call as well.

What makes so many people think they have the eye is that the dogs can overcome the owner's inaccuracy with heart and talent, and in some cases mouth. Lots of times the dogs win in spite of their human counterpart. And one of the great human tendencies is to take credit where it is not deserved.

Lots think they can slop feed once a day, have no interaction with the dog, leave him in a filthy/unhealthy state then walk him for two weeks, upgrade his food, work for 6-8 weeks and end up with a world class athlete. Simply not true.

If someone ever says, "He really came on the last week or so of the keep", usually means he was fed like shit before hand and when he finally acclimated to the upgrade in 'fuel' and the benefit of exercise, he "STARTED" to shine. Further meaning, if the dog had started out at par, he would have SHINED earlier and SHINED BRIGHTER as the keep progresses/ended. And even then the dog has adjusted to the weight that was chosen for him not so much operating at the optimal weight. Take that same dog and allow him to live year round above par, then start and he will be SHINING from the jump and will get BRIGHTER and BRIGHTER as the keep progresses.

Calling the correct weight is a "year-round decision" not just so and so has a 41M and I think ol' Spot can go at 41, let's pull him down 7 pounds this week and call the weight. Ol' Spot better be a good one because he is basically on his own. EWO

[bullyson]

All of us who just read this should print it and frame it because you just summed it up with this post . If we cant follow what you posted and become professional, class A, elite, high caliber dog men then our dogs will never reach those heights as well !!

[EWO]

Our weather is starting to break in central NC. For whatever reason, it is like the dogs know.

This is one of the best topics for this time of year. I prefer to dry one out naturally. If the dog is worked, fed and hydrated adequately he will pretty much come off the available water himself. At that point he will piss what is excess and retain what is necessary. Much easier to dial in from that point than correcting over or under hydrated.

EWO

[CYJ]

Very well put EWO. You nailed it on the head. Hopefully a young dog person will come into your life that has a lot of get up and go. Will listen and is teachable. You have a lot of knowledge that is right on. Cheers.

[EWO]

I remember when I was that guy. D would sit down after working the dogs and it was like teacher/student, maybe even like a professor giving a lecture.

We would work a dog a the dog would respond or not respond as expected. He would go over the why's and why nots. I would come home a write it all down.

So many of the conversations were along the lines of Mr. Colopy (spelling) said this or that. Mr. Sorrels used the carpet mill this way. Mr. Brewer said this and Mr. Stephenson said that. Mr. Hargrove uses a slat mill like this or that.

Often it was a work session followed by a class session.

Couple that with being young and willing to ride up and down the road almost every cold weekend. D, his son and myself made a pretty good team, or at least we made some good memories while doing so.

Thanks for the compliment. I have enjoyed and appreciated all you have offered. I should have been born about 20 years earlier. LOL.

EWO

[Marvel]

This is a damn good read.

[EWO]

It is my favorite part of the dogs. I could read and talk about it for days on end.

There is nothing any more special than a finely tuned animal that is willing to go the extra mile powered by great preparation.

EWO

[EWO]

Another means of naturally drying a dog is the use of dry kibble. I feed raw and kibble combined, mostly for the convenience when the number of dogs somehow creep up (LOL).

A dog that is on a raw diet is naturally wet and naturally hydrated. They do not got to the water bowl near as much as the dry fed dogs.


I met a young guy a few months and he and I feed in a similar fashion. They feed raw for the most part but add kibble in a similar fashion as me. What kibble he uses is presoaked. The last week what little kibble he uses is not pre-soaked. He uses th dry food to pull water off at the end. I was not sure how effective this would be til this week.

Work took me out of town for a few days and I had a buddy of mine (non dog man) feed the dogs. There was some miscommunication over the amount of food (raw) and he fed up everything I had in three days instead of it lasting four. Dogs now like him more than me. LOL. He went to my dry bag and fed them the fourth day. He topped off all the two gallon bowls with water on Friday night. I got home Saturday at lunch and just about every bowl was bone dry. Maybe a couple had a handful of water left.

Maybe I did not realize how much water the dogs needed when being fed dry, maybe they adjust, but coming of raw onto dry requires a lot of water. They pretty much drank more than a gallon of water in an 18 hour period when most days they hardly touch the bowl in a 24 hour period.

I can imagine a handful of dry food could pull a pound or so of water off in the last weeks. It is like dexing without the dex. LOL

EWO

[brokeback]

Great posts as always. I really enjoy the reads. It is amazing how much more water they drink when being fed kibble. That was probably the first thing I noticed when I switched back to feeding kibble. The water doesn't last near as long in the bowls. Didn't think about that pulling any excess water off but it does make perfect sense.

[EWO]

It is sort of like I knew it pulled some water but never thought about using it for that reason.

I was the thinking the opposite. If I use kibble I then need to add more water. Not so much if I add some kibble I can pull some water.

It is funny how sometimes things are right there in front and it still proceeds to be an AHA! moment.

EWO

[CLUTCH]

Great read... 8)

[ATKJJJ]

I've heard that myth before about loosing mouth with dex
I don't think its true either

I have lost about 10 to 15 shows , every excuse I could have made I must admit I have won far more making the same mistake or worse
fact is sometimes you just run into a better dog

I have been conditioning dogs on raw since around 2000 or so
when you have them on raw they barely drink at all

If you give a dog too much you Will ruin that hound. I have seen newbie after newbie ruin good dogs with chemicals and them thinking that the internets and drugs and a bag of special feed is a replacement for experience and hard work. Of course that wont make a difference if your bit down in 15 or are so weak you cant pull a fishing line from a sick cats ass with him. Know what your doing before you use any chemicals on your dog or your self. Its just a tool and some tools can hurt more if your ignorant of the safety.

[EWO]

This another great topic. Especially for the guys that like to ride up and down the road this time of year.

The window for success closes a lot faster from May to September and water is usually the reason that window gets slammed shut.

Looking forward to insight.

EWO

[Thiccer Than Water]

Yes dex makes the body expel fluids but I was was told it’s used to prevent swelling.

[EWO]

Yes dex will reduce swelling as it is a cortica steroid and is considered an anti-inflammatory.

It will remove water and its side effect evolved into its primary use, the removal of water.

For a lot of people it is a staple the last 24-48 hours to make weight.

For a lot, not so much. They dry out naturally without the use of a 'diaretic'.

EWO

[Coach]

Another interesting side effect of corticosteroids is that it weakens tendons.
As a former ball player, I've had several cortisone shots. After having some shots in my knee for a couple of weeks, my bicep tendon tore clean off the bone doing nothing special.
My experience led me to look into why, what causes this, etc. Talked to some doctors.

I've given myself Dex numerous times for swelling, bad back and so forth. Usually 3cc and I'm a 240lb catch weight. I'll drop several pounds of fluid and yawn and stretch a lot. Like my muscles need to be awakened every now and then for about 24 hours. 2cc, does not affect me in this way. So, be careful and consider all potential side effects and maybe experiment before getting too close to show time.

[EWO]

Well said.

I know a guy that does the same. He says the dex works better for his lower back than any of the other medicines he has used.

He says it eases the pain but he pisses like a race horse. He can rest well between the pissing. Then his good for as much as a month.

EWO