Does Performance = Reproduction?

[Thinker]

My question is does a performance carry over to how a dog will reproduce? I feel that a hound can either produce or it can't regardless of how he or she performs... To me they do not equal each other... Just wanting to see what others have to say...

[S_B]

Dogs are going to throw their traits so I believe the simple answer is yes.

History proves that closely and loosely bred performing animals reproduce themselves, but you can also get great performing animals from crosses. It is a fact some old timers did not test their bitches and used them as brood to produce. So the genetics game can be a gamble.

You can stack the deck in your favor selecting the best from within your line and only going out to refresh what you may be lacking if you are lacking. Selection is key.

S_B

[Black Hand]

Short answer is no. Too many variables goes into a dogs performance with just as many variables involving a dogs production also.

Some people have great success with much less. And some people can and will find a way to tarnish the shiniest piece of gold.

[Pit Bull Committed]

I believe for the most part, yes! But not always!

I'd rather use a dog that's a great performer for breeding over a dog that its performance is unknown or poor. Two exceptions for me that I would use such a dog for breeding are... 1) If the dog was bred specifically for brood stock(with me personally knowing all the dogs within a few generations behind it). 2) If someone else has already bred the dog and it's proven to be a producer.

[Black Hand]

I believe for the most part, yes! But not always!

I'd rather use a dog that's a great performer for breeding over a dog that its performance is unknown or poor. Two exceptions for me that I would use such a dog for breeding are... 1) If the dog was bred specifically for brood stock(with me personally knowing all the dogs within a few generations behind it). 2) If someone else has already bred the dog and it's proven to be a producer.

Thats contradictory. You agree performance will dictate the producing ability of a dog but will breed to a dog who is bred specifically for producing ability and NOT performance?

[Pit Bull Committed]

Thats contradictory. You agree performance will dictate the producing ability of a dog but will breed to a dog who is bred specifically for producing ability and NOT performance?
If you can comprehend what I wrote above correctly you wouldn't be confused. I said, for the most part I would agree that performance dictate what they will produce...but not always. If I bred a dog specifically for my brood stock personally knowing about the dogs behind it, wouldn't you think I would have a pretty good idea what the bitch would produce?:idea: Again, this isn't a black or white topic. You just got to really use your head and make the best decision. :) You did state above that there are too many variables didn't you? So it really depends on which variables you're taking into consideration when deciding to make a breeding.

[Black Hand]

If you can comprehend what I wrote above correctly you wouldn't be confused. I said, for the most part I would agree that performance dictate what they will produce...but not always. If I bred a dog specifically for my brood stock personally knowing about the dogs behind it, wouldn't you think I would have a pretty good idea what the bitch would produce?:idea: Again, this isn't a black or white topic. You just got to really use your head and make the best decision. :) You did state above that there are too many variables didn't you? So it really depends on which variables you're taking into consideration when deciding to make a breeding.
I'm not confused. If there is any confusion it's because you gave an answer but then followed up with sonething that didn't support it. actually, the question is pretty black and white. Does performance carry over to how the dog will reproduce was the question and the answer is no. What's behind them plays a roll, everyone knows that. The whole idea of a brood bitch and that being her purpose tells you that performance and production are totally seperate subjects. You knowing her lineage and basically saying IDGAF to know how she is as a performer because I think she will produce anyways answers the OP's question.

[SGC]

Wouldn't it also make sense to look at how the litter mates stack up, if they are good producers/performers too?

[YELLOWJOHN]

there is no formula some just like to have there odds favored ... there is no exception a dog will either produce or it cant ....

[No Quarter Kennel]

No - it does not matter.
A bum can come from two great parents.
Greatness can come from bums.

Select and breed around as close to total package animals as you can get that likewise come from a very very solid litter like themselves and who in turn, come from parents of the same

[S_B]

No - it does not matter.
A bum can come from two great parents.
Greatness can come from bums.

Select and breed around as close to total package animals as you can get that likewise come from a very very solid litter like themselves and who in turn, come from parents of the same

Either answer is correct. No if you are just breeding purely performance animals without relation and Yes if you are following the highlighted sentence above provided you are pulling from a family of individuals.

S_B

[kandyman]

If performance is not related to production, then go breed to a poodle and tell is how many winners you get. If people make a habit of breeding non performing dogs they are short sighted. I will take a gamble here and there but the general idea is you have to show me that you can win before I feed your offspring. I'm not saying the piece of shit littermate can't out produce his good sibling. It's possible, but how long before those excuses ruin a hood family of hounds? We make very few breedings. when we plan in raising a litter we expect to get something as good as the parents.

SB said it best, breed for traits and percentages. A solid family is built on a solid foundation.

[Officially Retired]

If performance is not related to production, then go breed to a poodle and tell is how many winners you get.

True :lol:

[Officially Retired]

The bottom line is you get what you BREED FOR :idea:

While it is true that many inbred bums can produce ... this does NOT mean that bums are what you need to breed to :-q

The whole reason that some inbred bums "can" produce ... is because of THE ACE they're inbred on ... I mean, DUH :-O

You are NOT going to get a bunch of performance dogs repeatedly and consistently breeding game, no-talent dogs.

You ARE going to get a bunch of performance dogs by repeatedly and consistently breeding game, high-talent dogs.

Sure, you can "overlook" a game bum, here and there, and give him a chance to produce ... AND it may just so happen that this game, inbred bum can PRODUCE HIS ASS OFF.

But that doesn't mean you start line- and inbreeding off this bum ... it means you go breed to the badass son of his ... maybe even double-breed on the game bum USING a badass son to a badass daughter ... but ALWAYS trying to steer back to high-performance.

A person has to KEEP HIS EYE ON THE BALL ... it's NOT by just breeding paper tigers ... it's by breeding for A STANDARD.

That doesn't mean you have to kill (or get rid of) every single dog that isn't an ace ... but it also means you don't want to breed to every, inbred, bow-legged retard you come across either.

I promise you my own line didn't get to be a high-percentage bloodline of head dogs by NOT breeding to game, talented head dogs :lol:

It got that way BY breeding to (and for) game, talented head dogs :idea:

Yeah, sometimes I would breed to a game plug, like Duke Nukem, but the dog wasn't just a total piece of shit.
He had GREAT air, he came from an ALL-GAME LITTER, and he was inbred on an excellent, prepotent head dog.
He wasn't just some bum with nothing good in his pedigree.
He was a long-winded dog, with great conformation, off an all-game litter ... that couldn't bust a grape.

So I bred Duke to rougher family members, that had some punch, but that NEEDED air, and got some great all-around dogs like U-Nhan-Rha, etc.

I sure didn't keep my dogs winning WAY more than they lost ... by "not caring about" ability :mrgreen:

Jack

[HAMMER49]

Jack I like that response.
Dogs are individual. I believe you breed traits more than anything else. Sure there are exceptions, but consistently stacking the deck should pay off in the long run. Just because a dog is bred a certain way means nothing if he does not exhibit the traits you desire. I've had friends that say family inbreeding, or linebreeding is how you stay consistent because the dogs will at least be the average of their family. With or without being checked to see if they posses any attributes of a true APBT. I've never desired to be average, and feel all that does is keep names lined up in pedigrees. I always counter with having the ability to orchestrate what I want in an animal and breeding to what I wish to see. That can be achieved by sticking within your family, but you have to seek out the individuals possessing whatever you fancy. Jack you sought to create and maintain a family of head dogs, and accomplished your goal.
[I promise you my own line didn't get to be a high-percentage bloodline of head dogs by NOT breeding to game, talented head dogs

It got that way BY breeding to (and for) game, talented head dogs]

You knew what you wanted and created what you desired by carefully selecting INDIVIDUALS.

HAMMER49

[bossman311]

My question is does a performance carry over to how a dog will reproduce? I feel that a hound can either produce or it can't regardless of how he or she performs... To me they do not equal each other... Just wanting to see what others have to say...

Ahhhh Yeah!
You only breed the ones that performed well don't You?
No one breeds cur-cur to get performance.
But the thing is not every performance dog will produce performing dogs.
But most performing dogs come from performers.
Like Begat Like .