View Full Version : Ch. Miles / Gr. Ch. Flash
HAMMER49
06-04-2015, 01:09 PM
Any of you gentlemen have an opinion on these particular dogs, or their offspring? Good, bad, or ugly does anyone have experience with them?
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=4041
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=27405
We went through several litters off CH Norton (Norman) off of GR CH Flash to different bitches, our experience was very very LOW%'s. I can only remember 2, maybe 3 working out. One went 3:45 but he wasn't a quality dog at all imo. He pretty much raced in reverse the entire time.
They were exceptionally bred, rugged durable dogs who were athletic and strong, just mostly defensive fancy dancers who didn't have much heart if any. And VERY hard keeping dogs.
S_B
Officially Retired
06-04-2015, 04:25 PM
There are a lot of quality dogs that back up ...
What age did you test these dogs at?
And were you evaluating them with an "Eli" (barnstorming) yardstick ... or a yardstick that could appreciate these dog for their own style and how they were bred?
I have heard Ed Faron say the same types of things about The Hollingsworth Dogs ... he was judging them with the wrong kind of yardstick.
Can't imagine dogs bred like that being "low percentage" ... what I *can* imagine is them weathering a storm with durability and STOPPING rougher dogs on a consistent basis.
Jack
Black Hand
06-04-2015, 04:37 PM
Have to agree with jack. How a dog goes nearly 4 hours and is not quality is beyond me...
But you seen it not me.
Ages were 18 months and beyond, and no Eli barnstorming yardstick involved. It's an opinion of several well seasoned dogmen who were familiar with Bolio dogs up close and personal from some of the best!
We obviously appreciated the breeding or the trips wouldn't have been made to breed to that individual of the line. As far as appreciating their style, some of them were slick as snot but like I already stated they were lacking the most important trait.
They were given their opportunity to shine and they were just not very good quality. I'm only speaking on the individual I mentioned, that certainly doesn't detract from others within that line that could produce.
The one that did win in 3:45 was sold after for the price to fix a flat on a trailer. He was more trouble as a keeper than the quality he showed and our buddy was done with the last of those breedings that night.
Jack I know my lane, which could be considered a school zone lmfao! But the dogmen with their hands on those individuals competed across the country with a super win Record. Those were the days...
S_B
Jack,
You bred to the dog how did yours turn out? The owners hyped him up and made claims nothing quit off of him, that simply just isn't true.
P.S. I don't have anything against those folks or any ax to grind just telling the truth.
S_B
Have to agree with jack. How a dog goes nearly 4 hours and is not quality is beyond me...
But you seen it not me.
He was in outstanding shape and could breathe underwater. He protested each time the other dog would get a decent skin hold, neither dogs were quality that night...they were just bums cancelling each other out. There weren't any scratches or out of holds, they were both game dogs, no denying that.
I can't even remember exactly why it finally ended, was just glad it did so we could get on the road.
S_B
Bingo
06-04-2015, 05:13 PM
I have heard the same thing S_B is saying from someone pretty close friends to them.Very low percentage.Adba show dogs is what I heard from multiple people.
I have heard the same thing S_B is saying from someone pretty close friends to them.Very low percentage.Adba show dogs is what I heard from multiple people.
Yes on the show dogs but they were also legitimate.
FrostyPaws
06-05-2015, 06:11 AM
Ch. Miles also quit along the way. I saw one or two off Norton, and I didn't like either. I saw a few off Mario, the other brother from that litter, that was, hands down, the gamest dog from that bunch. A couple I liked, and a couple I didn't, but he would've been the one I would've bred to along the way. Mario did produce a grand champion along the way and some other winners that made a name for themselves in certain areas of the country.
Doc Ellis
06-05-2015, 06:27 AM
Frosty and SB did you ever see anything off the Norton/Crazy Mary litter?
FrostyPaws
06-05-2015, 02:52 PM
Doc, I honestly couldn't tell you what the dam was to the dogs I saw.
HAMMER49
06-05-2015, 06:41 PM
Thanks for the replies gentlemen. Looking at that pedigree I would be inclined to assume more of what Jack stated. Nice durable / complete dogs that could weather the storm and have the tools to put you away.
Hey, that's why we discuss.
Thanks again...
Frosty and SB did you ever see anything off the Norton/Crazy Mary litter?
Don't believe so.
FrostyPaws
06-05-2015, 09:42 PM
Hammer, you probably shouldn't look at a pedigree and assume anything of the sort. Edie was a fine boned dog. Tippi was a fine boned dog. Spanky was a brutal dog, but folks don't know if he was complete or not. I fed a lot of dogs bred similar to all of those dogs during my time in dogs, and I never had many I would call durable and certainly not complete by any stretch.
Now, like anything else, when you get a good dog from the various lines, it's good, etc. Try not to make those assumptions. You'll be disappointed over and over.
HAMMER49
06-05-2015, 10:06 PM
The mind can't help but assume on my end, but all assumptions are removed in the same place for me. You either are, or you aren't and I make sure of that myself. My eyes don't lie to me.
Thanks again for your input.
Kahlil
06-06-2015, 09:47 PM
FP is right about assumptions from looking at paper, 90% of the time one will be wrong. S_B is also right on the %'s. A lot of the peds one looks at online are just being bred for paper, because the paper looks real good.
The Norton x Crazy breeding did produce 2 really good dogs, they where both bitches. One of the bitches won 1 in short order and then was retired to be bred(the paper thing again).
KD
Black Hand
06-06-2015, 09:56 PM
Possibly the way she was bred and the traits that followed represented her pedigree very well. Nothing wrong with valuing a dog for what you can create with it.
CrazyRed
06-18-2015, 09:50 AM
Frosty and SB did you ever see anything off the Norton/Crazy Mary litter?
I seen a gyp off that litter, Black Maria. Seen her a few times, she went across the border and won in a blowout but that was her style. She was balls against the walls not stop pressing. Was very surprised to hear that she blew one out down there but she was loved there. Back where she resided, even though it was controlled climate she was def outclassed by 2 dogs here who was actually smaller but a lot smarter. One dog eventually went on to become a very good dog for her owner winning 2 or 3 last time i remember, the other won 1 before being retired. Everything else Maria steamrolled..