importance of being private

[lightningstrikes]

As laws are tighter and snitches ears grow larger people I want to stress the issue of how private the game once was not that it will ever go back that way but if there's a confirmation dance off keep it to your self that 5000$ reward money makes people very eager to drop a dime I've decided to walk away from The game with great disgust in my heart I love these dogs and what they are all about but the people ,animal rights activist and law men have torn what was once a honest poor man sport into a cartel / mafia target with no regards to u or ur property I say to all who continue to do right by the hounds is tread lightly keep ur circles tight and mouth closed the ears and eyes are on u ......stay safe to all who keep it real


Lightningstrikes

[Officially Retired]

As laws are tighter and snitches ears grow larger people I want to stress the issue of how private the game once was not that it will ever go back that way but if there's a confirmation dance off keep it to your self that 5000$ reward money makes people very eager to drop a dime I've decided to walk away from The game with great disgust in my heart I love these dogs and what they are all about but the people ,animal rights activist and law men have torn what was once a honest poor man sport into a cartel / mafia target with no regards to u or ur property I say to all who continue to do right by the hounds is tread lightly keep ur circles tight and mouth closed the ears and eyes are on u ......stay safe to all who keep it real
Lightningstrikes

Take the rose-colored glasses off.

If you check your history, the bulldog game was never an "honest man's" sport ... it has always been a sport for thugs and riffraff.

How did Eli get stolen from Junior B, if the sport was filled with "honest" men?

How did Molly B get stolen?

How did Art get stolen?

How did Bolio get stolen?

How did Don Maloney get shot? (Remember the reason?)

How did Bert Clouse get the stolen Patrick's Tater back?

If Bert was a "gentleman," why did he receive the stolen Tater and then match the old, toothless dog and just watch him die trying?

Tudor/Carver? Thugs, pimps, bootleggers, thieves (with Tudor a murderer and Carver a liar/paper-hanger).

Indian Sonny/Patrick? Liars/Thieves/Conmen/Paper-hangers.

Hell, I could go on for hours :rolleyes:

My whole point is WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE :coffee:

The sport of dogs was always for riffraff :idea:

At one point, it was sanctioned by The Police Gazette and the UKC, but that was a VERY brief moment in the overall history of the game.

And, I agree, it does get old after awhile ... even if you have a true passion for these dogs and WANT to do a good job raising/breeding them and keeping them competitive.

The truth is the ONLY "legally-safe" thing to do is obey the law.

Me, I haven't touched a dog since the end of 2007 ...

In closing, I will say that there are definitely SOME legit, good, basically-honest people in these dogs ... I'd say 2 out of every 100.

The rest are thugs, retards who can't spell, who do many other illegal acts, etc.

If you really think you are going to be "legally-safe" living in an environment like that ... well, you're just not very realistic.

Jack

PS: I never understood the often-repeated phrase, "Do right by the dogs."

Does that mean committing a good deed while standing next to a dog? :lol:

[No Quarter Kennel]

LOL.....I like it Jack. Everyone does this in all types of forums. People make so many assumptions about things in the past without being there or weighing the reality of what was what. I know, from an understudy of Tudor, that Tudor was as mean, racist and felonious as they come back then.

Makes you wonder what would be possible if this sport were legalized and legit people got involved.

In Ecuador, they have 3 veterinarians standing by for post competitive care. They get top notch care. Looks like something set up for the UFC. Doctors on hand with all supplies and so forth to make sure all is good. It would be even better here.......but it will never be.

[Officially Retired]

LOL.....I like it Jack. Everyone does this in all types of forums. People make so many assumptions about things in the past without being there or weighing the reality of what was what. I know, from an understudy of Tudor, that Tudor was as mean, racist and felonious as they come back then.

Makes you wonder what would be possible if this sport were legalized and legit people got involved.

In Ecuador, they have 3 veterinarians standing by for post competitive care. They get top notch care. Looks like something set up for the UFC. Doctors on hand with all supplies and so forth to make sure all is good. It would be even better here.......but it will never be.

Same with Japan.

Japan has an entire ranking system.

I have always felt that, if you legalized it, controlled and regulated it, the sport would be awesome.

In fact the entire first chapter of my book was devoted to this, comparing illegalizing the game to Prohibition.

Drinking alcohol is not a bad thing to do ... but some people have a problem doing it correctly.

Illegalizing the act of buying/selling/drinking alcohol is what created the crime (the Al Capones) ... but, when it was legalized again, no more Al Capones (at least not in alcohol).

And, here again, drug lords are drug lords only because drugs are illegal.

Who TF needs a drug lord, if you can get a gram at the pharmacy?

Jack

[lightningstrikes]

Ok gentleman maybe it was about rif Raf lieng and cheating ...but me I don't carry myself that way and am honest work hard try to do right by my dogs by keeping them honest to what we expect a game dog to be ...i know that this game brings the worst out of people ... i thought I had a tight circle and I fact did it took one slip upto the wrong ear and it sent the authorities crashing in by the grace of God we were not engaging in any illegal acts but came in as if so ..... i myself love the dogs as I had a deep bond with my animals since my childhood but I'm not going to no longer goin to attend any dog activities unless I hit the power ball or mega millions and can relocate to Ecuador or Japan until then I'll sit back and enjoy the company of my son and his sporting activities
Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers by calling the sport honest ...question since u guys have experienced both days of old and today which was better may i ask

Lightningstrikes

[ChinCheckKennels]

2/100....you are probably right. Usually when your numbers are checked jack they seem pretty close. I won't argue that. What I will do is give thanks to those in my corner. This game or sport is filled with shitty people. But I truely feel I have some of the best and most honest folks. Straight up dudes who do right by the hounds. And by this I mean...properly feed, water, medicate, house, breed , whelp, school and carry on whatever program they are running. Been in some shady places....seen some shady shit. I guess better out then in. But its hard to get out...especially when you have love for the hounds and the sport and trust in the comp. So shout out to my dudes. That list is a small one lol....but I'd bet most would envy it. Bro you know where you always can knock the dust off them handles.

[S_B]

You hit it right on the button Jack! And I'll say 2 out of a 100 is being gracious! :lol:

Nothing has changed and nothing will.

S_B

[CYJ]

Ditto Jack, it was the same even back in the 70's through the 90's. Were very few good dog men in the game for just the sport of it. If I told you who broke my Young's Chuck dog with a base ball bat while on it's chain. That dog man would have done the same to my Young's Face bitch if Face had not been up in a locked brood pen. This same person later went over to C. Middleton's yard and did the same to some of his best up coming dogs.

This person was the son of a now deceased but very well known dog man back then. I had a good idea who had did it, because my wife while coming home from work passed this person on the road going by our home. The Last talk I had with C. Middleton a few months back, He brought up that subject and who had done these deeds to his dogs. When he told me that person's name, I knew for sure that my suspicions were right on. Later my Young's Monkey bitch was due a litter and while being called out on a Sunday service call, some forty miles away. When I got back, my little bitch had been poisoned so severely. Looked to have been dead three days, was rigid as a piece of steel and placed upside down on it's backbone and leaned against the brood pen side wall.

A known easy going dog man in Florida and friend of V. Jackson told V.J. many years back that he was too nice of a guy to be in the dog game. That the low life would eat him alive. It got ruff on more than one occasion. LOL

Long as I was in the game I tried to walk and run around 2 1/2 miles at least every other day. Did some weight lifting and boxing a bag etc. Figured one best be in good shape along with your show dog. One could never tell who was going to be doing the dog show, yourself or the dog sometimes could be both. LOL

Usually when the dogs were done more locally among known dog persons. Things went much better. Step up to the fast track and another State. Anything could happen unless kept to say ten to a side etc. and kept private. When the stakes were to high or a dog peddlers dog was on the line or a big crowd was present. Best have eyes on the back of your head and a advanced escape route planned ahead of time. LOL Cheers

[Officially Retired]

Ditto Jack, it was the same even back in the 70's through the 90's. Were very few good dog men in the game for just the sport of it. If I told you who broke my Young's Chuck dog with a base ball bat while on it's chain. That dog man would have done the same to my Young's Face bitch if Face had not been up in a locked brood pen. This same person later went over to C. Middleton's yard and did the same to some of his best up coming dogs.

This person was the son of a now deceased but very well known dog man back then. I had a good idea who had did it, because my wife while coming home from work passed this person on the road going by our home. The Last talk I had with C. Middleton a few months back, He brought up that subject and who had done these deeds to his dogs. When he told me that person's name, I knew for sure that my suspicions were right on. Later my Young's Monkey bitch was due a litter and while being called out on a Sunday service call, some forty miles away. When I got back, my little bitch had been poisoned so severely. Looked to have been dead three days, was rigid as a piece of steel and placed upside down on it's backbone and leaned against the brood pen side wall.

That is just horrible to hear.

I understand the motive to beat a man to death, but never his innocent dog =;

For example, I just got off the phone with an old timer. I sold him a Champion and he bought another Champion from one of my customers.
So, because I am not breeding anymore, he asked me about Evo's dogs.
Even though EVO proved to be an ungrateful POS, who violated every rule of my board, flagrantly disregarding the rules ... and despite multiple private (and, initially, respectful warnings) ... to the point I had to ban Evo ... because, essentially, he did nothing here but attempt to self-promote ... I still did not badmouth Evo's dogs.
I told this old-timer that I thought Evo was a self-loving, self-interested prick ... but that his dogs were some of the highest-percentage, nicest-looking animals I have ever seen.

Another example: there was this dude I fucking couldn't stand (Butch Thornton), who used to talk shit to me all the time.
We had mutual ass-kicking threats back-and-forth, death threats back-and-forth, etc.
But when one of Butch Thornton's dogs got sick (a valuable brood bitch) ... he knew who to call ... ME ... and all of the bickering bullshit was forgotten.
At the end of the day ... we were DOG MEN ... he had the humility to come to me for help ... and I had the sincere dedication to these dogs to overnight the required drugs to him, no charge (not even postage).

Our troubles (and ego-clashes) were buried on the spot ... that was the end of it.

My point is, there is simply NO WAY I would ever harm someone's dog, no matter how much I couldn't stand them, that is just the mark of a coward and a 100% PIECE OF SHIT.

I am sorry this happened to you ... and your dog :angry:




A known easy going dog man in Florida and friend of V. Jackson told V.J. many years back that he was too nice of a guy to be in the dog game. That the low life would eat him alive. It got ruff on more than one occasion. LOL

With all that said, you have to have some evil in you to be in the game, lol :twisted:

I try my best to be honest, but I will fuck over a person, the moment they try to hurt (or take advantage over) me ... but I would never hurt someone who was honest with me.

And, by the same token, I would NEVER fuck over any dog ... nor fail to give any truly good dog the credit it deserved ... no matter how much I hated its owner.




Long as I was in the game I tried to walk and run around 2 1/2 miles at least every other day. Did some weight lifting and boxing a bag etc. Figured one best be in good shape along with your show dog. One could never tell who was going to be doing the dog show, yourself or the dog sometimes could be both. LOL

True dat 8)




Usually when the dogs were done more locally among know dog persons. Things went much better. Step up to the fast track and another State anything could happen unless kept to say ten to a side etc. and kept private. When the stakes were to high or a dog peddlers dog was on the line or a big crowd was present. Best have eyes on the back of your head and a advanced escape route planned ahead of time. LOL Cheers

Words of wisdom ... and cheers back :cheers:

Jack

[Rolltidepride]

Take the rose-colored glasses off.

If you check your history, the bulldog game was never an "honest man's" sport ... it has always been a sport for thugs and riffraff.

How did Eli get stolen from Junior B, if the sport was filled with "honest" men?

How did Molly B get stolen?

How did Art get stolen?

How did Bolio get stolen?

How did Don Maloney get shot? (Remember the reason?)

How did Bert Clouse get the stolen Patrick's Tater back?

If Bert was a "gentleman," why did he receive the stolen Tater and then match the old, toothless dog and just watch him die trying?

Tudor/Carver? Thugs, pimps, bootleggers, thieves (with Tudor a murderer and Carver a liar/paper-hanger).

Indian Sonny/Patrick? Liars/Thieves/Conmen/Paper-hangers.

Hell, I could go on for hours :rolleyes:

My whole point is WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE :coffee:

The sport of dogs was always for riffraff :idea:

At one point, it was sanctioned by The Police Gazette and the UKC, but that was a VERY brief moment in the overall history of the game.

And, I agree, it does get old after awhile ... even if you have a true passion for these dogs and WANT to do a good job raising/breeding them and keeping them competitive.

The truth is the ONLY "legally-safe" thing to do is obey the law.

Me, I haven't touched a dog since the end of 2007 ...

In closing, I will say that there are definitely SOME legit, good, basically-honest people in these dogs ... I'd say 2 out of every 100.

The rest are thugs, retards who can't spell, who do many other illegal acts, etc.

If you really think you are going to be "legally-safe" living in an environment like that ... well, you're just not very realistic.

Jack

PS: I never understood the often-repeated phrase, "Do right by the dogs."

Does that mean committing a good deed while standing next to a dog? :lol:

Down here in Alabama its common knowledge Eli waa stolen by bush him self
Few older guy's bred to the dog himself while he was brought to Alabama for hiding

[S_B]

That is just horrible to hear.

I understand the motive to beat a man to death, but never his innocent dog =;

For example, I just got off the phone with an old timer. I sold him a Champion and he bought another Champion from one of my customers.
So, because I am not breeding anymore, he asked me about Evo's dogs.
Even though EVO proved to be an ungrateful POS, who violated every rule of my board, flagrantly disregarding the rules ... and despite multiple private (and, initially, respectful warnings) ... to the point I had to ban Evo ... because, essentially, he did nothing here but attempt to self-promote ... I still did not badmouth Evo's dogs.
I told this old-timer that I thought Evo was a self-loving, self-interested prick ... but that his dogs were some of the highest-percentage, nicest-looking animals I have ever seen.

Another example: there was this dude I fucking couldn't stand (Butch Thornton), who used to talk shit to me all the time.
We had mutual ass-kicking threats back-and-forth, death threats back-and-forth, etc.
But when one of Butch Thornton's dogs got sick (a valuable brood bitch) ... he knew who to call ... ME ... and all of the bickering bullshit was forgotten.
At the end of the day ... we were DOG MEN ... he had the humility to come to me for help ... and I had the sincere dedication to these dogs to overnight the required drugs to him, no charge (not even postage).

Our troubles (and ego-clashes) were buried on the spot ... that was the end of it.

My point is, there is simply NO WAY I would ever harm someone's dog, no matter how much I couldn't stand them, that is just the mark of a coward and a 100% PIECE OF SHIT.

I am sorry this happened to you ... and your dog :angry:





With all that said, you have to have some evil in you to be in the game, lol :twisted:

I try my best to be honest, but I will fuck over a person, the moment they try to hurt (or take advantage over) me ... but I would never hurt someone who was honest with me.

And, by the same token, I would NEVER fuck over any dog ... nor fail to give any truly good dog the credit it deserved ... no matter how much I hated its owner.





True dat 8)





Words of wisdom ... and cheers back :cheers:

Jack

I have had some of the same battles with so called friends and dogmen, and like you, I would never turn my back on their dogs if they needed me.

One guy we've known nearly 20 years is a pathological liar, and a dog collector but never has a set up for them. At one time we had 9 of his dogs for 9 months. Another time 6, then 4 then a couple here and there. I always had to pinch him for dog food money, think he came out to clean up? Ha! The well has run dry for him, but if one of his dogs needed help in the middle of the night he could call, but probably wouldn't.

I gained even more respect for you after this post Jack!

S_B

[FrostyPaws]

Jr Bush didn't steal Eli. That's not common knowledge. That's simply a load of horseshit.

[Officially Retired]

Jr Bush didn't steal Eli. That's not common knowledge. That's simply a load of horseshit.

R.I.F. (Reading Is Fundamental) ;)

I didn't say Junior Bush stole Eli, I said he had Eli stolen from him.

Have at least one cup of coffee before posting :coffee:

[Officially Retired]

I have had some of the same battles with so called friends and dogmen, and like you, I would never turn my back on their dogs if they needed me.

One guy we've known nearly 20 years is a pathological liar, and a dog collector but never has a set up for them. At one time we had 9 of his dogs for 9 months. Another time 6, then 4 then a couple here and there. I always had to pinch him for dog food money, think he came out to clean up? Ha! The well has run dry for him, but if one of his dogs needed help in the middle of the night he could call, but probably wouldn't.

I gained even more respect for you after this post Jack!

S_B

Thanks.

People will always be cool when they need you (pump you for information, resources, a place to put their dogs, etc.).

Many will lean on you ... even come to depend on you ... over and over and over again ... but if "you" have the audacity to "say something" to them (i.e., give them a reality check) ... they will invariably turn on a dime, and tell the world what a "jerk" you are :-O :rolleyes:

Jack

[CrazyRed]

R.I.F. (Reading Is Fundamental) ;)

I didn't say Junior Bush stole Eli, I said he had Eli stolen from him.

Have at least one cup of coffee before posting :coffee:

This is very true and something that is still talked about. That's why a whole event of searching around time looking for the thief is still laughable by many because they knew what it was. Whether it's true or not I can't say because I wasn't there or part of it but to many it's considered true. They said charge it to the game because many lies told, dogs stolen or money never received.

[S_B]

Thanks.

People will always be cool when they need you (pump you for information, resources, a place to put their dogs, etc.).

Many will lean on you ... even come to depend on you ... over and over and over again ... but if "you" have the audacity to "say something" to them (i.e., give them a reality check) ... they will invariably turn on a dime, and tell the world what a "jerk" you are :-O :rolleyes:

Jack

I know this all to well Jack. Fuck em! :bootintheass: :lol:

S_B

[BulldogConnection]

Down here in Alabama its common knowledge Eli waa stolen by bush him self
Few older guy's bred to the dog himself while he was brought to Alabama for hiding


Jr Bush didn't steal Eli. That's not common knowledge. That's simply a load of horseshit.


R.I.F. (Reading Is Fundamental) ;)

I didn't say Junior Bush stole Eli, I said he had Eli stolen from him.

Have at least one cup of coffee before posting :coffee:

RIF

[evolutionkennels]

For example, I just got off the phone with an old timer. I sold him a Champion and he bought another Champion from one of my customers.
So, because I am not breeding anymore, he asked me about Evo's dogs.
Even though EVO proved to be an ungrateful POS, who violated every rule of my board, flagrantly disregarding the rules ... and despite multiple private (and, initially, respectful warnings) ... to the point I had to ban Evo ... because, essentially, he did nothing here but attempt to self-promote ... I still did not badmouth Evo's dogs.
I told this old-timer that I thought Evo was a self-loving, self-interested prick ... but that his dogs were some of the highest-percentage, nicest-looking animals I have ever seen.


Jack

Dear Jack,

I dont think that you know me well enough to call me a POS. What you think of me is not important to me, but because you put it on a public forum, allow me to retort:

What was I ungrateful for? Was I ungrateful by recommending people to this forum? Was I ungrateful for paying you to be a member BEFORE the pedigree database was up? Look , I dont know you well enough to call you a piece of shit either, and its actually beneath me to retort with an equal measure of insults, so I wont. The reality is that what we had was different goals. I dont need your database, I have my own. That being said, If I want to promote my website or dogs , which is not in direct competition with what once was your site, then my yearly payment should cover that. If somebody asked a question about where Boomerang dogs were, and I already had a link made on my website , it doesnt make any sense for me to have to spend a few hours of my day to put all those dogs in what was YOUR database just to respond to some other members question. Furthermore, at the rate you were banning people , there was zero incentive for anyone to go through the trouble of putting all their peds in if it meant you could kick them out at will for mistakes. Not everyone is as tech savy as we are. Your idea was brilliant, but the excecution was poor. Its gotta be win win. Members should benefit from this site as much as the site owner benefits from their yearly payment. I appreciate the comment on my dogs. I have a mutual resect for your program. That being said, I've never talked bad about your dogs either , as our recent win proves they are still relevant. Now to the subject of this thread:

Just because someone else is a douchebag, doesnt make it ok for YOU to be one. I do "DO RIGHT" by the dogs. To me, it's :
1. Giving the utmost care to the animals
2. Keep them performing
3. Show up on time on weight, if they are over, take the FF and go home, next time they'll be on weight.
4. Be a good sport , shake hands win or lose
5. Doing all you can to give your dog the best opportunity to win , show up a few days early, do bloodwork, dont overtrain etc
6. Respect the animals , they arent machines
7. Be a responsible owner with meds available for any emergencies

You dont have to be a murderer , pedofile, rapist, thief, drug dealer to do well and compete with these dogs, YOU CAN SET YOUR OWN STANDARD FOR EXCELLENCE. Old man Morfin in Mexico had two sayings that to me ring very true:

1. "The bane of excellence is the Ego"
2. "The worst thing someone can be is ungrateful."

The dog world is filled with egomaniacs and ungrateful sons of bitches, but it doesnt mean you have to be one as well.

Evo

[Officially Retired]

Dear Jack,

I dont think that you know me well enough to call me a POS. What you think of me is not important to me, but because you put it on a public forum, allow me to retort:

What was I ungrateful for? Was I ungrateful by recommending people to this forum? Was I ungrateful for paying you to be a member BEFORE the pedigree database was up? Look , I dont know you well enough to call you a piece of shit either, and its actually beneath me to retort with an equal measure of insults, so I wont. The reality is that what we had was different goals. I dont need your database, I have my own. That being said, If I want to promote my website or dogs , which is not in direct competition with what once was your site, then my yearly payment should cover that. If somebody asked a question about where Boomerang dogs were, and I already had a link made on my website , it doesnt make any sense for me to have to spend a few hours of my day to put all those dogs in what was YOUR database just to respond to some other members question. Furthermore, at the rate you were banning people , there was zero incentive for anyone to go through the trouble of putting all their peds in if it meant you could kick them out at will for mistakes. Not everyone is as tech savy as we are. Your idea was brilliant, but the excecution was poor. Its gotta be win win. Members should benefit from this site as much as the site owner benefits from their yearly payment. I appreciate the comment on my dogs. I have a mutual resect for your program. That being said, I've never talked bad about your dogs either , as our recent win proves they are still relevant. Now to the subject of this thread:

Just because someone else is a douchebag, doesnt make it ok for YOU to be one. I do "DO RIGHT" by the dogs. To me, it's :
1. Giving the utmost care to the animals
2. Keep them performing
3. Show up on time on weight, if they are over, take the FF and go home, next time they'll be on weight.
4. Be a good sport , shake hands win or lose
5. Doing all you can to give your dog the best opportunity to win , show up a few days early, do bloodwork, dont overtrain etc
6. Respect the animals , they arent machines
7. Be a responsible owner with meds available for any emergencies

You dont have to be a murderer , pedofile, rapist, thief, drug dealer to do well and compete with these dogs, YOU CAN SET YOUR OWN STANDARD FOR EXCELLENCE. Old man Morfin in Mexico had two sayings that to me ring very true:

1. "The bane of excellence is the Ego"
2. "The worst thing someone can be is ungrateful."

The dog world is filled with egomaniacs and ungrateful sons of bitches, but it doesnt mean you have to be one as well.

Evo


The truth is, I think we agree on more than we disagree.

Egos are egos, and sometimes they clash.

Just because you promoted my site as "better than anything else," doesn't mean I owe you anything ... it was, quite simply, THE TRUTH.

NO ONE has made a better all-around bulldog site than I have.

The difference is, I didn't come to YOUR website asking to be moderator; the fact is you came to MY website asking for this position.

I also didn't hack into YOUR copy of the original Hollingsworth dogs video, snatching still photos from it to post on my site; the fact is you snatched photos from MY original Hollingsworth video to place on your site.

You were the one who was placed as a Moderator, and then, instead of posting pedigrees here and linking dogs back to this site, you shamelessly did nothing but link back to YOUR (pitiful by comparison) site, and pretty much only used this site as a platform to promote your dogs.

This is why I call you "ungrateful" and "self-serving" ... because, quite simply, you are.

This doesn't mean you don't have good dogs (you do);
This doesn't mean you don't have good taste in dogs (you do);
It only means that you came here, and then pretty much did nothing but self-promote, adding nothing to this database, but using it as a platform to sell dogs and stud services.

That is perfectly fine, if you limit these links to placement in the Classified section.

But if you're going to post in the general section, then at least participate by adding these results to the community database, rather than by doing nothing but promote your own site.

MOST high-end forums only allow sales in the Classified section; you just need to do an ego check, realize that the rules apply to you too, and learn to follow them.

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

For the sake of the other board members, I'll leave it at the "we agree more than disagree statement."

[FrostyPaws]

R.I.F. (Reading Is Fundamental) ;)

I didn't say Junior Bush stole Eli, I said he had Eli stolen from him.

Have at least one cup of coffee before posting :coffee:

That wasn't directed at you. In a hurry, I didn't quote the individual that said it.

I don't drink coffee. It's worthless.

[malik]

Much respect here for Jack and evo, a true man discussion, both pouring out their thoughts saying it as it is. Yet you can feel it's NOT a fight and remained classy. Wish the world had more of you two.

Cheers

[EWO]

Back to the topic with a analogy from the construction industry. A well known builder close to here has built several houses on Lake Gaston. If you are familiar with the area the houses around $250,000 just get you in the door. High end living.

He is well known and well respected. His profit margin has always been boosted as on the down low it is known that he buys a lot of stolen tools, equipment and building materials. The crack heads and thieves visit him often. It is one of those known unknowns.

Some crack heads dropped by with a load of stuff and the wrong person was there so he saved face by insulting them and chasing them away with threats and such. So they came back that night and cleaned him out. He was pretty much left with a hammer and handsaw to build a million dollar house. When he came to us crying about what had happened to him I laughed. I'm a KARMA guy myself.

So to get back to the dogs. If one lays with the dogs you can't be SURPRISED when you have fleas.

A common mistake is to look back on the history of the dogs thru the perspective of nostalgia, or "Rose colored glasses" as Jack said. The dogs like society, have the good and the bad. Looking back seems to forget about the bad.

It has always been private. Just private to one is not the same as private to another.

EWO