Real experience with RF1 canine nutrition

[BLADE]

I'd like to get feedback from folks that have real experience conditioning a Bulldog on RF1. I know that each dog is an individual and may respond differently to different supplements but I've been considering giving RF1 a go at some point and would like some feedback on your experiences using it. I've read where some say that you can't use the recommended dosage because a dog will run hot from the amount of creatine that will be consumed, others say to up the amount of water then what is recommended on the lable to get better results. Now with all that being said the source of that information didn't come from this site. I tend to believe that even though this site has less activity, the knowledge shared here is much more rewarding. Thanks in advance.

[creek_bottom]

I reccomend k-9 super fuel personally with a well balanced raw diet.
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[Nut]

I reccomend k-9 super fuel personally with a well balanced raw diet.
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[bulldoghistorian]

I reccomend k-9 super fuel personally with a well balanced raw diet.
Creek Bottom

why would you increase fat and protein on a raw diet ?
one could just add fat chicken and it would be the same
if i look at the ingredients it contains nothing that wouldnt be added with a simple multi vitamin pil if you already feed raw

[FrostyPaws]

I've worked and fed dogs on nothing but RF-1, Super Fuel, Peak Performance 2, etc over the years. I can tell you it never made any dog I worked on it, or the others, run hot at any point, and they were fed absolutely nothing BUT that along with water and some fiber to help form a stool.

While it takes quite a bit to feed a dog nothing but the powder, it can be done as a meal replacement. Garner's Ch.Dexter was worked on nothing but RF-1 for his 1st show. Can-Am Boys Ch. Becky ROM was worked on Peak Performance 2, not to mention another champion dog I had, along with other winners, fed nothing but Super Fuel at the time just to see if it compared favorably to the rest.

If feeding a raw diet, you don't really need any supplements, at least nothing like RF-1, etc, as a balanced raw diet, much like ours, is one that is balanced over time not every day.

[BLADE]

I appreciate all the feedback so it seems that RF1 wouldn't really be necessary when feeding Raw. I get that, so let's look at feeding RF1 with a kibble like Victor 24/20 blend. Frosty you seem to have a good bit of experience with feeding RF1, so could you elaborate some on how to feed it with kibble? Would you feed it in the recommended amount? Also let's talk about moisture, would you feed it dry as a topping with kibble or add the recommended water amount when feeding wet? Heck one comment I read on another site a fella swore by adding 1 ounce of water per Lb of body weight? Seems a little excessive to me but I'm the guy asking questions! Lol I figured I would feed it dry over the above mentioned kibble and let the dog consume what water he felt he needed. If later on the dog starts drying out as he pulls away from his water some could be added? Just some thoughts I've considered.

[S_B]

Blade I definitely would not recommend feeding the powder dry! Imaging adding any powdery substance to something you eat and what would happen, you'd choke!

Never used RF-1 personally but I have used Peak Performance, Vertex and Metabolol. Water is important!

S_B

[BLADE]

Blade I definitely would not recommend feeding the powder dry! Imaging adding any powdery substance to something you eat and what would happen, you'd choke!

Never used RF-1 personally but I have used Peak Performance, Vertex and Metabolol. Water is important!

S_B

I see your point S_B. The reasoning behind my question about feeding it dry came from this theory. I work my dog, between the time I put him back on his chain after a workout and feeding him he's likely to load up on water. Now if I add more water to his feed to wet the RF1 is that gonna be to much moisture as opposed to feeding his kibble and RF1 dry sense he's already taken water after work, and allowing him to govern wether or not he needs more.

[S_B]

I see your point S_B. The reasoning behind my question about feeding it dry came from this theory. I work my dog, between the time I put him back on his chain after a workout and feeding him he's likely to load up on water. Now if I add more water to his feed to wet the RF1 is that gonna be to much moisture as opposed to feeding his kibble and RF1 dry sense he's already taken water after work, and allowing him to govern wether or not he needs more.

I never allow a dog to load up on water after a workout. I will actually walk until cooled naturally then feed with the amount of water on it I want them to take in. Then I will allow free water after that point.

That would solve your issue. :)

S_B

[BLADE]

Thanks S_B, that is a good idea.

[FrostyPaws]

I used 1oz per pound of weight for my dogs during a keep, but I also didn't allow my dogs to have free water whenever they wanted. I'm not a believer in letting dogs do what they want during keep when it comes to water, work, any of it. So I controlled everything that went in. It has been a long time since I used any kibble in an actual keep for one of my dogs. I don't know what they actual amount is called for any longer, but I always fed things in accordance to how the dog worked not necessarily the directions.

[BLADE]

I used 1oz per pound of weight for my dogs during a keep, but I also didn't allow my dogs to have free water whenever they wanted. I'm not a believer in letting dogs do what they want during keep when it comes to water, work, any of it. So I controlled everything that went in. It has been a long time since I used any kibble in an actual keep for one of my dogs. I don't know what they actual amount is called for any longer, but I always fed things in accordance to how the dog worked no
t necessarily the directions.

Great advice as well Frosty! When I started this post I was looking for answers that would fit my personal situation. I guess I was suffering from a bit of tunnel vision. Lol. As an example.. I like the way you were able to control a dog water completely, that wouldn't necessarily work in my situation because of my job situation. I'm not home to give and take water from a dog all day. So like S_B mentioned, He would not give a dog water immediately after work, he would cool them out naturally, feed the amount of water he wanted with his feed and then have more availabile if the dog chose to take more. So I would have to come somewhere in the middle to feed RF1 and get the water balance needed. After reading the responses to this post I think the way I could make it happen is to put a dog out on a fresh chain space after his work and don't have water available. After he cools out and gets fed his kibble with RF1 and water then I could move him back to his spot where he could have more water if he desired. Thanks again for all the replies!

[creek_bottom]

why would you increase fat and protein on a raw diet ?
one could just add fat chicken and it would be the same
if i look at the ingredients it contains nothing that wouldnt be added with a simple multi vitamin pil if you already feed raw

It covers anything I might miss and I work them hard so it help keeps the weight on. It's worked everytime I've used it and if it ain't broke I ain't gonna fix it.
Creek Bottom

[EWO]

The best thing about keeps and feed and supplements is that they all work and at the very same time they all fail. Their application is the key.

The most talked about part of a keep is the feed. Then the supplements. Then the equipment and the type of work, maybe then the amount of work. The temperature and weather. Then maybe keeping him inside or outside. Morning work or evening work depending on show time.

For what ever reason water always seems to be, "Oh yeah, the water! That's important too". And the simple fact is any and every combination of the above will fail if the water part is missed. Miss on the water and the possibilities of success become very limited, almost a faint shot. Hit the water content right and the dogs are so amazing that they can over come a ton of misses every where else.

The majority of my dogs are easy keepers so I they live on the chain during keep. Not every one's preference but it works for me. I leave fresh water out for the first three weeks or so. I add all the water they need in their daily feedings. The body will adjust and they will urinate (assuming healthy kidney function) excess water to an adequate level. After a couple three weeks they do not touch the water bowl. When they come off I take it away the last couple of weeks and we fine tune from there.

The key to using anything supplement wise is that it takes water to make it work. The powder supplements, just like dry kibble, need water. It will use the moisture you provide or it will pull it form the dog's moisture content. It will happen regardless of intent or directions on the box/can. A person can control the water and know, or he can let the dog control the water and not know. Not knowing sucks.

I kept a dog for a fellow once and he believed in the use of RF-1. I used it as he said, but fed my way and watered my way. I am not sure I saw a difference using it as a supplement. I have never used it as a dietary staple. But if everything is in there and the water target is hit I would have to think it would work. Maybe a little something extra to keep the gut working, a handful of dog food here and there. Or some fiber content like Frosty suggested.

EWO

[BLADE]

Great reply EWO! Thanks for taking the time to explain in depth.:-bd

[bulldoghistorian]

It covers anything I might miss and I work them hard so it help keeps the weight on. It's worked everytime I've used it and if it ain't broke I ain't gonna fix it.
Creek Bottom

for sure dont change if you whooping ass, I dont work em hard so u might have a point