CARBOHYDRATE LOADING

[R2L]

What is y'all opinion on carbo loading before a show?

[R2L]

here's an interesting article


CARBOHYDRATE LOADING FOR DOGS.

Myth: Carbohydrate loading for dogs is a good idea. Fact: Carbohydrate loading does not work on dogs, and produces negative side effects.

1,000 years ago, everybody knew the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat. 50 years ago, everybody knew no man could break the 4-minute mile barrier. As the old saying goes, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially when based on false myths.

In his landmark book, The Meaning of Myth, the late Joseph Campbell revealed that myths are an essential part of our make up as humans. We develop myths to help us understand a chaotic and dangerous natural world full of mysterious events. In short, myths help us make sense of things we can't explain any other way.

Canine nutrition myths, ranging from silly to outright dangerous, thrive in the dog world. The reason these false belief systems have been so prevalent for so long is simple. In the absence of reliable information, any notion that seems to explain why something occurs makes sense, at least at the time. Over time, a myth, no matter how wrong it might be, is repeated so often that it takes on a life of its own. Finally, the myth becomes something that everybody "knows" is true, just as everybody knew the earth was flat.

Until the recent advances in sports medicine, human nutrition and performance were held hostage by false myth. As a result, performance and health among human athletes were artificially limited by false beliefs just as performance dogs are today. For example, not long ago huge pro football players, who often lose 10 pounds in summer practice, were discouraged from drinking water during workouts because it would "cramp them up". Similarly, sports drink use was discouraged for the same reason. Of course, both notions are now considered out dated myths.

From time to time, PERFORMANCE DOG MAGAZINE takes on outdated myths by engaging in good-natured, but serious, debate on topics related to canine nutrition and conditioning. We'll examine published ads and articles to see if they provide up to date information, or continue outdated myths. There are no sacred cows here; anything published for fanciers - especially written to sell products - is fair game.

The goal here is simple - to help you weed through myths so that you can make more informed decisions, which in turn helps you raise the performance and health of your dogs to new levels. The winner is not who presents a better case. The real winner, of course, is your dog.

The rules are simple. Each side of an argument follows basic debate rules. In other words, people have to support their points with something more than "everybody knows". It's the "everybody knows" mindset that begins and promotes myths in the first place.

The first myth and misinformation reviewed is by Mike Williams, who has written canine nutritional articles and a book entitled Stamina. Among Mr. Williams' repertoire of writings, we began with this article because rarely does such a stark contrast between canine myth and scientific fact present itself. Mr. Williams' article and its primary myths are summarized below:

The Russians developed carbohydrate loading and used it extensively. The best way to carbohydrate load for humans is the depletion method, which involves withholding carbohydrate during intense workouts, then taking in ultra-high amounts of carbohydrates. Moreover, carbohydrate loading works as well and for the same reasons for canine athletes as it does on humans. During the last phase of carbohydrate loading, it's good to give boiled eggs and fiber.

Myth #1 The Russians Used "Carbohydrate Loading" Extensively.

Fact: Scandinavian researchers developed carbohydrate loading over 30 years ago. Respected researchers Drs. Astrad, Hultman and others are credited with the classical carbohydrate loading studies and the knowledge evolving from them. By the way, most dietary advances for athletes emanated not from medical doctors as widely believed (another myth!), but by sports scientists. Today, sports scientists like to be called exercise physiologists.

Whatever you call them, in 1967 these researchers began studying the effects of dietary manipulation on endurance exercise performance. Going into their experiments, it appeared from earlier studies that endurance performance was associated with the amount of glycogen stored in the muscle tissue. Glycogen is the chemical storage form carbohydrates take after you eat them.

To make a long technical story short, they stuffed extra carbohydrates into military soldiers and took muscle samples to see how much more glycogen this overeating seemed to yield. Then, they exercised these test subjects almost until exhaustion. They made several key discoveries. First, they noted the more carbohydrates test subjects ate, the more muscle glycogen their bodies tended to store. And the more muscle glycogen their bodies stored, the greater the endurance performance.

Second, researchers compared methods of manipulating diet to induce greater glycogen storage. One of their methods involved a depletion stage in which carbohydrates were withheld while the athlete worked out. After this depletion stage, a period of high carbohydrate intake occurred. This resulted in very high levels of muscle glycogen.

But as in most fields of science that evolve rapidly, new discoveries often make older beliefs outdated. This original carbohydrate loading study is just that - the first. But Mr. Williams is not aware that it is not the only study. Since then, many new insights have been gained into carbohydrate metabolism that reveals new and better ways of using carbohydrates to increase human performance.

Russian sport scientists, and American scientists who've traveled to Russia to learn first hand their sports medicine practices, reveal that carbohydrate loading was never the big deal it was in America. Americans have used carbohydrate loading much more than Russians, since the Soviets long ago realized the downsides to carbohydrate loading, especially using the depletion method.

Myth #2 The Best Way To Carbohydrate Load Is Using The Depletion Method.

Fact: The 30-year-old depletion method causes a wide array of negative side effects, ranging from slightly uncomfortable to potentially dangerous. If you've ever personally withheld carbohydrates while exercising hard then stuffing carbohydrates, you've noted first hand the many unpleasant aspects to depletion. Large fluctuations in fluid balance, diarrhea, elevations in stress hormones resulting in muscle loss, ketosis and other metabolic alterations. These negatives account for why the depletion method of carbohydrate loading has lost much of its appeal since its heyday in the 1970s.

A newer and much improved method of carbohydrate intake comes from an important study by Dr. Sherman almost two decades after the first carbohydrate loading studies. In a well-controlled experiment, Dr. Sherman discovered that athletes could achieve the same increases in glycogen gained during carbohydrate depletion method, while avoiding the serious drawbacks. After all, the depletion stage's accompanying muscle damage and other side effects often cancel out the increased glycogen advantages!

Dr. Sherman's protocol was deceptively simple, yet highly effective. Instead of going through a disruptive depletion stage, he simply had athletes increase dietary carbohydrate intake the last three days before an event with rest. The glycogen stores achieved were almost the same as with the depletion method, without the negative side effects. Little wonder why this method is now favored over the old depletion method.

Myth #3 Carbohydrate Loading Is A Good Idea For Dogs.

Fact: The notion of ultra-high carbohydrate intake - and carbohydrate loading -for human athletes is undergoing serious re-examination. Recent thinking among a growing number of experts is that excess carbohydrates can inhibit the burning of fat stored in the body, and may also increase excess fat storage, and possibly even limit endurance.

Here's why, they say. Even very lean athletes have enough body fat for back-to-back workouts already stored in fat tissue. But excess carbohydrate intake produces excess insulin, the hormone produced in response to carbohydrate intake. Excess insulin blocks the use of stored body fat. Therefore, excess carbohydrate intake, which causes excess insulin, tends to inhibit fat utilization. In turn, this is a leading cause of the "running hot" syndrome.

In other words, an athlete's hungry muscles can't "get to" stored fat to use for energy. So the body uses more carbohydrates, which produces more lactic acid. And because of the overabundance of carbohydrates, excess lactic acid is produced and the "running hot" syndrome comes into play.

In humans, recent studies suggest a more balanced approach to carbohydrate intake may work better. Some experts believe that ultra-high carbohydrate intake at the expense of proteins and fats isn't what it was cracked up to be in the old days. This push and pull of ideas is at the heart of science. At any rate, it's fair to say carbohydrate loading is being rethought, and is not the rage it was in the early 1970s.

No Guesswork on Dogs
The scientific record of carbo loading on dogs is clear - it does not work, and can produce serious negative side effects. A good deal of research has been conducted in this area. In the 1970s, Dr. Kronfeld conducted several studies and found that higher protein and fat diets appeared to enhance sled dog performance better than higher carbohydrate content diets.

Building on earlier work, Dr. Reynolds and others at Harvard, Cornell and Bern Switzerland tested various diets on well-conditioned sled dogs and retrievers clearly revealed that dogs taking in higher fat and protein intakes had better performance compared to dogs on high carbohydrate intakes. The reason for
this, researchers state, is because during endurance exercise canine muscle tissue relies heavily upon the breakdown and burning of fat for energy, and an overabundance of glycogen and carbohydrate oxidation may block fat burning.

They found when you give excess carbohydrates to your dog, it may actually reduce endurance performance. That's because the extra glycogen added with carbohydrate added with carbohydrate loading gets used up faster than normal, and as a result, creates more lactic acid. In other words, the ultimate energy source in the dog - fat - can't be used because excess carbohydrates actually inhibit or block this vital energy process.

Even ultra lean dogs have enough fat stored in muscle and blood stream and body to supply the energy for daily back-to-back workouts. But too much carbohydrate and too little fat in the diet means the fat never gets a chance to kick in.

High Carbohydrates = High Lactic Acid

Here's the basis for why moderate to high fat intakes are superior to high carbohydrate intakes, as presented by researchers. When carbohydrates are burned for energy, one of the by-products is lactic acid. Lactic acid is actually a two-part molecule. Only 1%, by molecular weight, is acid (H+). The other 99% is lactate (L-) which is a base. A base is a substance that buffers acids.

Lactate and acid immediately dissociate (split) from each other when produced. It is the acid (H+) that causes the burn and pain associated with lactic acid because like all acids, it lowers pH, in this case in the muscle. Lowering pH shuts off key muscle energy enabling enzymes from doing their jobs. Because these enzymes are "turned off", the ability to keep contract muscle fibers is greatly reduced. Therefore, it is the acid part of lactic acid that causes the problems, not lactate, per se.

The newest studies reveal that of the lactate produced, about 75% is used directly by the muscles as fuel; the remaining 25% travels to the liver to be converted into liver glycogen, or glucose. That's because in addition to its ability to neutralize acid, lactate is also an active energy source used by
muscle tissue.

But the more glycogen burned for energy, the more acid (H+) produced. And remember that it's acid (H+) that causes the problems - not lactate. To a major degree, the burning of excess stored carbohydrates occurs at the expense of burning free fatty acids (fat) for energy. This is because elevated insulin levels associated with carbohydrate loading tend to inhibit the
mobilization and burning of fats.

Myth #4 Assuming Carbohydrate Loading For Dogs Is A Good Idea, Then The Depletion Method Is The Way To Go.

Fact: Carbohydrate loading for dogs, especially the depletion method promoted by Mr. Williams, is a wrongheaded and outdated idea. The depletion phase creates serious side effects ranging from sharp increases in stress hormones resulting in a breakdown of lean muscle, to cell membrane damage, plus a reduction in oxygen carrying capacity and "running hot".

For dogs attempting to "make weight", depleting carbohydrates carries an additional penalty - severe and often unpredictable weight fluctuations. It is common for dogs to lose and gain 2-4% of their total body weight in water shifts when they deplete, then restock carbs. This amounts to a total weight gain and loss of 3-5 pounds for a 45-pound dog. Trying to make weight with such large shifts in body fluids makes it very difficult to predict body weight in events like weight pulling.

So aside from the documented negative metabolic effects of depleting carbs, attempting to make weight becomes even more challenging. And if body weight exceeds the weight class, which is typical using Mr. Williams' method, then water is often withheld from the dog to reduce. This often results in dehydration, reduced performance and heat stroke.

Myth #5 Taking In Super-High Carbohydrate Food Is A Good Idea Before A Contest.

Fact: This is a bad idea before events, and is likely to make dogs "run hot". By now it's clear - carbohydrate loading is a bad idea for dogs, especially the depletion method presented by Mr. Williams. To make matters worse, during the depletion stage he advises feeding boiled eggs and fiber to dogs that have never received either previously.

Clearly, this out-of-the-blue introduction of foods can cause real GI (gastrointestinal) distress ranging from constipation to diarrhea, or both, directly before a competition. How could Mr. Williams, without offering any supporting evidence or validation other than essentially the old "everybody knows" line of reasoning expect performance dog fanciers to accept his views as reliable-or even safe.

In summary, carbohydrate loading for dogs is a bad idea that is more likely to inhibit performance than increase it. Scientific and real world research from around the world proves this fact time and time again. Moreover, using the outdated depletion procedure presented by Mr. Williams produces even more negative side effects and is much more likely to make dogs "run hot".

[Earl Tudor]

You should never carboload a dog. You should use fats and oils as your primary energy source for dogs. They are much more adept at breaking them down and being able to use them for energy than their human counterparts. Carbs should be limited and used judiciously, and even then, use ones that are very low on the glycemic inndex.

[Officially Retired]

I am sure 99% of the people who have clicked on this thread topic were too lazy to read the article, so I highlighted the relevant portions.

There really is nothing to debate: carb-loading is NOT what anyone should be doing for a dog :mrgreen:

[R2L]

So, it's just limey kennels who;s swearing & preaching to carbo load a dog on game-dog.com?

Thanks for highlighting.

[Officially Retired]

I don't go to Gamedogs.com, but if it's the European Limey, he does have good dogs, but if he's preaching carb-loading then he is off in left field.

Many dogmen have good dogs, but are completely ignorant on subjects like meds and nutrition.

But no, it is not "just" Limey; I have heard many dogmen tell me they carb-load. I would say that, in fact, there are more ignorant dogmen than actually knowledgeable dogmen when it comes to nutrition and medical information.

Jack

[Blackfoot]

Rollbar Knls and O'Stevens carbo-load in the keeps.

[Officially Retired]

If this is true, then their eye for a dog, and their selection of what dog to bring, is what is winning for them not their diet.

In other words, Mohammad Ali on a carb-loaded regimen is still Mohammad Ali ;)

[R2L]

you heard of K-EASE jack? should help let lactic acid leave the system more quickly
i believe its used for racing hounds as well

even the best dont know it all, i always like to hear different perspectives

[bgblok68]

I havnt heard anything about it but I saw it while looking through the Kvsupply catalog.

[Officially Retired]

you heard of K-EASE jack? should help let lactic acid leave the system more quickly
i believe its used for racing hounds as well
even the best dont know it all, i always like to hear different perspectives


Of course I've heard of K-Ease.

But I am not sure what that has to do with anything?

The fact that there is a product called K-Ease doesn't change the fact that carb-loading is not optimal for a dog, feeding fats and oils is.

[maygan]

K EASE IS USED BY THE GREYHOUND BOYS APPERENTLY.

[Officially Retired]

Yep, it's been in KV's vet catalogue for years.

Another interesting point is what greyhounds do is very fast work, and is over quickly, compared to what bulldogs do ;)

[R2L]

just wondering if people who are pro carbo load use this product or related products as well to minimalise negative effects of lactic acid.

[Officially Retired]

I know a lot of people who use K-Ease, in fact it used to be in one of my old keeps.

Still, to my way of thinking, using K-Ease to try to minimize the bad practice of carb-loading is like using "a remedy for a hangover."

For example, back when I used to party my ass off, I would come home and take 3 Advil, a full vitamin supplement, and guzzle-down a huge glass of GatorAide, and another of tomato juice, before I went to bed ... to "prevent" a hangover from happening ... and it worked pretty good! And I sure did feel a whole lot better in the morning by taking this mix than I did if I did not.

However, this "remedy" I used was a poor substitute for just NOT getting stinkin' drunk in the first place ... and I always feel better in the morning when I don't drink than I ever did after drinking and applying my "remedy" :lol:

And the same thing is true with building-up excess lactic acid: trying to "take supplements" to cover-up the ill-effects of bad practices is a poor substitute for just not engaging in those bad practices to begin with.

Jack

.

[Crofab]

Rollbar Knls and O'Stevens carbo-load in the keeps.

Rollbar's keep was originally developed when the consensus was that carb loading would benefit dogs as it does people. At one time, Bob Fritz believed carb loading was needed for optimum performance for dogs. That has long been disproven, and his ideas have changed accordingly. Perspective must be kept when discussing such things.

[Officially Retired]

Rollbar's keep was originally developed when the consensus was that carb loading would benefit dogs as it does people. At one time, Bob Fritz believed carb loading was needed for optimum performance for dogs. That has long been disproven, and his ideas have changed accordingly. Perspective must be kept when discussing such things.


Good point. My own original keep had carb-loading as well (and kibble too) ... as that was the "ignorant consensus" of most dogmen back then ... but knowledge certainly changes over time, and I certainly don't recommend these things now.

Jack

.

[Blackfoot]

Crofab and Jack...you both are right! I was just pointing it out. Times change, and the info we learn changes as well...

Question is, did it work for them or were they just good dogmen with good dogs????

I know both men had "good eyes" for a dog!

[Officially Retired]

Crofab and Jack...you both are right! I was just pointing it out. Times change, and the info we learn changes as well...
Question is, did it work for them or were they just good dogmen with good dogs????
I know both men had "good eyes" for a dog!

Again, Mohammad Al doing roadwork and eating McDonald's burgers is still Mohammad Ali in shape ... and Pinklon Thomas eating "good food" is still Pinkon Thomas, and nothing compared to a prime Ali ... which means, in the end, the most important element in any match is a good dog ;)

Jack

.

[southend]

Crofab and Jack...you both are right! I was just pointing it out. Times change, and the info we learn changes as well...
Question is, did it work for them or were they just good dogmen with good dogs????
I know both men had "good eyes" for a dog!

Again, Mohammad Al doing roadwork and eating McDonald's burgers is still Mohammad Ali in shape ... and Pinklon Thomas eating "good food" is still Pinkon Thomas, and nothing compared to a prime Ali ... which means, in the end, the most important element in any match is a good dog ;)

Jack

.
AMEN

[Ipk]

fat is a way better energy source.

[Buck E. Owens]

Jack,
In your book you break down the content of (water, protien, fat, carbs, fiber)
in foods like poultry, venison, rabbit..

im currious what the break down of beef is.

And how many carbs should a working 45lbs. Dog consume while being conditioned.
Goin off the thearyyou had about dogs on avsrge going 1h-2h most of the time. (It was the article you wrote about stats on dogs being over worked 5hrs.. and most matche not break the 1-2hr mark...

any way getting back on topic. What whould the carb intake on a 45lbs. Dog conditioned for a 2.5-3 hr hunt. For an example...

Dogs perform well off chicken, fish, beaver meat, rabbit/fat mix. All these last meals contain very lil carb content in them. Thats why i ask whats a good amount of cards.
Maybe a break down of what a 35lb dog would need also for folks with smaller hounds.

You have to understand a good amount before you can establish

[Buck E. Owens]

Before you can figure out whats overloading..

[Officially Retired]

Jack,
In your book you break down the content of (water, protien, fat, carbs, fiber)
in foods like poultry, venison, rabbit..
im currious what the break down of beef is.
And how many carbs should a working 45lbs. Dog consume while being conditioned.
Goin off the thearyyou had about dogs on avsrge going 1h-2h most of the time. (It was the article you wrote about stats on dogs being over worked 5hrs.. and most matche not break the 1-2hr mark...
any way getting back on topic. What whould the carb intake on a 45lbs. Dog conditioned for a 2.5-3 hr hunt. For an example...
Dogs perform well off chicken, fish, beaver meat, rabbit/fat mix. All these last meals contain very lil carb content in them. Thats why i ask whats a good amount of cards.
Maybe a break down of what a 35lb dog would need also for folks with smaller hounds.
You have to understand a good amount before you can establish


I am just about to launch the new software to completely change this entire site, which is taking up all of my time, but when I do I will come back here and answer this in detail (long response required).

Jack

[Oregonbulldog]

Does a dog need simple carbs ( cytomax, gatoraid,) to replenish glucose in it's muscles like a person does before, after and during training?

[Officially Retired]

Does a dog need simple carbs ( cytomax, gatoraid,) to replenish glucose in it's muscles like a person does before, after and during training?

The short answer is, it depends. For short bursts, yes, but for longer endurance feats, no.

First of all, dogs store glycogen in their muscles, not glucose. If you read the article, Running On Empty (http://scienceline.org/2008/11/bio-teyan-sled-dog-metabolism-iditarod), Alaskan sled dogs are given a 60-70% fat diet, and travel incredible distances (100 miles/day), without ever seeming to get tired.

The initial belief regarding canine conditioning and supplementation was to apply what is true about humans to dogs. However, what was found that the dog is unique and (where we cannot process fat-into-energy very well) the dog has a 400% greater capacity to pull turn fat into useable energy, and has a metabolism that prefers to draw from fat, even when carbs are available. This is in stark contrast to the human metabolism. In fact, here is a key quote:


"Stranger still, by the later stages of a race like the Iditarod, glycogen stores actually increase, indicating that the dogs are relying almost exclusively on fats for fuel. It is as though a cellular switch is flipped following the first hard day of racing, after which the dogs’ muscles seem to prefer burning fats over carbohydrates."

Therefore, current thinking is that dogs have a very minimal need for carbohydrates in long-distance affairs.

Jack

[Oregonbulldog]

I said Joe Montania....that's what I ment;) So in competition a dog could use simple carbs because he is bursting short? And fat ,cuz he's processing it like no other, for the endurance?
How much would you feed and what would you feed a dog (you pick the weight) before a competition? And what over the counter supplements too?

[Officially Retired]

I said Joe Montania....that's what I ment;) So in competition a dog could use simple carbs because he is bursting short? And fat ,cuz he's processing it like no other, for the endurance?
How much would you feed and what would you feed a dog (you pick the weight) before a competition? And what over the counter supplements too?

Al that is in my book :mrgreen:

But I will get to it and post it all up here after awhile :)

Jack

[Tru Blood]

Ok Jack it's been 3 months lol...

[Officially Retired]

LMAO, Touché :embarrassed:

[inkdogg]

Stephen M. Roth, a professor in the department of kinesiology at the University of Maryland, explains.

As our bodies perform strenuous exercise, we begin to breathe faster as we attempt to shuttle more oxygen to our working muscles. The body prefers to generate most of its energy using aerobic methods, meaning with oxygen. Some circumstances, however, --such as evading the historical saber tooth tiger or lifting heavy weights--require energy production faster than our bodies can adequately deliver oxygen. In those cases, the working muscles generate energy anaerobically. This energy comes from glucose through a process called glycolysis, in which glucose is broken down or metabolized into a substance called pyruvate through a series of steps. When the body has plenty of oxygen, pyruvate is shuttled to an aerobic pathway to be further broken down for more energy. But when oxygen is limited, the body temporarily converts pyruvate into a substance called lactate, which allows glucose breakdown--and thus energy production--to continue. The working muscle cells can continue this type of anaerobic energy production at high rates for one to three minutes, during which time lactate can accumulate to high levels.

A side effect of high lactate levels is an increase in the acidity of the muscle cells, along with disruptions of other metabolites. The same metabolic pathways that permit the breakdown of glucose to energy perform poorly in this acidic environment. On the surface, it seems counterproductive that a working muscle would produce something that would slow its capacity for more work. In reality, this is a natural defense mechanism for the body; it prevents permanent damage during extreme exertion by slowing the key systems needed to maintain muscle contraction. Once the body slows down, oxygen becomes available and lactate reverts back to pyruvate, allowing continued aerobic metabolism and energy for the body¿s recovery from the strenuous event.

Contrary to popular opinion, lactate or, as it is often called, lactic acid buildup is not responsible for the muscle soreness felt in the days following strenuous exercise. Rather, the production of lactate and other metabolites during extreme exertion results in the burning sensation often felt in active muscles, though which exact metabolites are involved remains unclear. This often painful sensation also gets us to stop overworking the body, thus forcing a recovery period in which the body clears the lactate and other metabolites.

Researchers who have examined lactate levels right after exercise found little correlation with the level of muscle soreness felt a few days later. This delayed-onset muscle soreness, or DOMS as it is called by exercise physiologists, is characterized by sometimes severe muscle tenderness as well as loss of strength and range of motion, usually reaching a peak 24 to 72 hours after the extreme exercise event.

Though the precise cause of DOMS is still unknown, most research points to actual muscle cell damage and an elevated release of various metabolites into the tissue surrounding the muscle cells. These responses to extreme exercise result in an inflammatory-repair response, leading to swelling and soreness that peaks a day or two after the event and resolves a few days later, depending on the severity of the damage. In fact, the type of muscle contraction appears to be a key factor in the development of DOMS. When a muscle lengthens against a load--imagine your flexed arms attempting to catch a thousand pound weight--the muscle contraction is said to be eccentric. In other words, the muscle is actively contracting, attempting to shorten its length, but it is failing. These eccentric contractions have been shown to result in more muscle cell damage than is seen with typical concentric contractions, in which a muscle successfully shortens during contraction against a load. Thus, exercises that involve many eccentric contractions, such as downhill running, will result in the most severe DOMS, even without any noticeable burning sensations in the muscles during the event.
Found dis article... Dont know if its sceintifly backed up....and if its applicable to dogs

[FrostyPaws]

The last dog I worked got 15% carbs in his diet. I'm gonna try to knock that down closer to 10-12% the next time. I posted an article on this site under the the Conditioning Articles, Rendering Sense into Fat, that will explain a lot of what ya'll are wanting to know.

[Limey Kennels]

Carbo loading WILL give your dog a 10/15 min turbo boost at the start, wich wil give him a extra15 min of energy overal..

[R2L]

Carbo loading WILL give your dog a 10/15 min turbo boost at the start, wich wil give him a extra15 min of energy overal..

How about the negative effects Jack has highlighted in the article.

[Limey Kennels]

How about the negative effects Jack has highlighted in the article.

wel there are always 2 sides to a story and ore flip side to every coin!. same as raw feeding and kibble. They both have merrit.and both have flaws and good points. my info and ecsperienced is not only backt up bij myself but from famouse dogman from the past from colby/ armitage/ mayfield ecetera ecetera. but iven more imoprtend from the greyhound world, where the sprinters get more carbs and the stayers more fat, yet in those diets the gross is stil carbs.. when you are dealing with Eli/alligator ore pure bully ore those typ of dogs they do have a ecsposif driving start where they use up massif amounds of fuel. where the bolio tombstone/ redboy typ of dogs ""dont"", they are usualy dogs that take the botoom and ore are very good clever dogs that ride the head in retreat.

those type of dogs cary better on a more fat/protien typ diet.then the other who need that torque..
most dogman preach gospel on there own ecsperienses and ore so called sientific studies who lack real live testing and ore are based on humans ore sledge dogs.ore wolfs wich is compleatly irelevand when it comes to our breed..
a dog in contray to man only swet out of there mouths and feet .
the APBT is a sub spiecies evolved into a compleatly diferend animal, where it looks like a dog , shits like a dog ""eats"" like a dog pissis like a dog , but it has nothing more to do with what the world considers a dog..
This true human slection ""against"" the rulles of nature!!.
never sientificly reasearchst due to the iligal caracter where the breed has lived and bred in..

At the same time Sledge dogs who are often refeurd to as a comparison in food discussions consirning diets., work in ecstreem cold iviromends lots of fresh and DENSH air carying ""lots"" of oxygen, wich is needed to ""burn"" the fat fuel witch is the ""slowest"" energy fuel dilivery there is for man AND dog ore any mamal for that matter, (look at artic animals they NEED fat insted of carbs as a energy and isolation sours)

where as carbs used 1/3 less oxygen to be used as a quik fuel dilivery. you can compear it with gasoline and diesel fuel, and our dogs are hybrids in that matter... at the same time the sledge dog works with his mouth ""open"" Being able to consume ""vasts"" amounds of cold fresh ""densh"" air to be ""able"" to burn of the fat. and cope with the heat that comes along with that. insted of a APBT who works with his mouth ""closed"" in ""hotter"" inviremends with mutch ""less"" oxygen intake is availeble to use ..

where fat wil be a mutch slower energy sours... just like a bad tunned cumbustion engine who cant properly burn its fuel due to bad air fuel ratio!..
So those type of comparisens and teoryes is like comparing apples with oranges....
now you might say wel what if the carbs are burned of afther 15 min. then the dog needs to go to the fat fuel and the lactic asidproduced tru fast burned carbs wil make him runn hot ..absolutly ""true"", But that same dog is on his fat resirves 15 min later!!!!!!!. And wil run just as hot afther 20/25 min as the fat diet dog who due to the lesser oxygen air fuel ration intake, is running just as hot!!!!!!!!!!Being forced to tug along with the energy onslought of a carb fueld dog that defenatly has a faster pace........ so teoreticly the carb loaded dog has more fuel reserves for the long run ... NOW if he faces a mutch better uponend then al of this gose out the window!!. never the less. conditioners try to get the dog in max shape ore chanse to compeat.. and at times where it comes douwn to the nitty gritty. i lean to the carb loaded dog... this being said AGAIN it thepends on what typ of dogs from what type of bloodlines ore famelies your dealing with..

[DryCreek]

Rollbar Knls and O'Stevens carbo-load in the keeps.
I know these dogs quite well. They are 40 minute killers. If they can't stop you in that amount of time ,you are going to win. Hense the carb load diet.

[OGDOGG]

I also noticed that about Fat Bill's keep. When I had my dogs on it, they had energy for about 40-45 minutes. After that they were done and just holding on to the other dog.

[FrostyPaws]

The reason sled dogs are used in research surrounding fat/carbs is due to the endurance aspect. It has nothing to do with how cold it is. It's related to the conditioning of the dog for the event. The entire issue about carbs/fats is that the dog should be changed at least 4-6 weeks to a higher fat diet so the dog's body grows accustomed to the higher fat content. Lower carbs/higher fat improves the conditioning of the dog. The conditioning allows the dog to do what? Go at a faster pace, for longer, if properly conditioned. Carb loading is great for people. Carb loading simply isn't optimal for dogs as it simply isn't their primary energy source, and that will never change.

[Limey Kennels]

ignorense is bliss i gues, as carb loading has EVERYTING to do with it........... read ""with our"" dogs when it comes to heat, cold dense air, ecetera in order to adjust diet /conditioning. Are you aware or where you around where upto the mid 70,s of the last century.. Shows where agreed upon minimum and maximum hights above sea level as wel !!. To compensate for bad non dense air, ore the oposit. To get as mutch advantige for there dogs!!??... Why do you think the greatest atleats train high up in the mountains!! ..

cold and heat and densh air has EVERYTING to do with burning diferend fuels and getting the max out of the fuel used.. hell if you runn your sledge dogs team ABOVE a sirtin temparature you get aressted in some of parts of the world!! because they heat up so quik... why do you think these type of dogs can sleep perfectly wel in minus 30 in snow storms .. it isend just there nice fury coats my frind..Its there genetic make up and those are compleatly diferend then our dogs.

And its very Obviusly that you dont fuel up a diesel engine with gasoline !.
and sins when thuse the APBT do its thing on a steady pace when sporting????????, where cruising speed is esentional in order to ditermen how far and long they CAN runn!!!!!.......
you think a texas condition fat/protien diet dog at sea level can compeat when he gets up in the mountains with the same heat?? and less oxygen levels in the air!!. that dog wil fall flat on its face within 25 min to never rize on its feet again... now feed that dog carbs with his fat and protien diet. and you see a diferend picture as carbs need 1/3 less oxygen to burn and diliver enery... last but not least did anybody ore you ever tought about WHERE those sientific studies on those sledge dogs and there diets where held!!??. i can tell you one thing it wassend in Texas ore new mexico ore in loisiana!!.................

[Officially Retired]

Limey, have you read these articles (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/showthread.php?56) on the forum?

[tasoschatz]

Carbohydrates are a short explosive energy source, that are of high volume (one molecule of carb holds seven of water) and limited amount in the body. You can carb load, overcompensate, whatever you want, but you can not go above a certain level.
Fat is a dense energy source that can keep you going further and for more time, obviously at a lower pace. I did not read in depth sledge dogs studies but I have read human on hypermarathon athletes, you know, the guys that run 100+ miles per day for a week etc. Even those subjects , that consume carbs during the race at frequent intervals, it is the fat burning they rely on.

[Limey Kennels]

I compleatly miss post my post on another topic so il try it again


ey Kennels




Limey Kennels is online now Subscribed Member
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Join Date:Feb 2012Posts:43






Jack about your post im very aware of al these wrightings and teories.
Ok now where getting into a debate, and post get longer .
Let me please remind some of you and educate others who dindt know , That a greyhound caries Pitbull / buldog blood in its vains!!, AND visa versa!! including Wippet blood.. Hens the Greyhounds carry the same coloration as our dogs and hensh they race with muzles on as the fight like crazy!!. Many a greyhound is being culled as they as young dogs and pups start fighting umongst them (hens they know that High protien levels causing protien posion makes them agressif and start them fighting) . And its known ONES THEY START FIGHTING THEY NEVER RACE AGAIN, THEY KEEP FIGHTING .... If you take there heads of make them 20/30 lbs smaller and put a head of a pitbull on there you see the same dog.. our breed has been build up out of varies crosses not just bulldog x terrier everyting that was crosses with a bulldog that in some way could bring the bacon home wherther it was fighting /vermin killing ore HUNTING was used to breed of
and for those who dont agree and think of it as BS chek this copied from ""Stonehenge on the dog 1849""


http://imageshack.us/a/img13/3180/dscf2373gc.jpg





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NOW thuse this look like a Brindle APBT ore wat!!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
let me also tell you that i have the fallow up drawings from that book where it shows it took 3 more breedings back into the greyhound to get the best confermation back for SPEED . yet in those days they where used as COURSING HUNTING animals. The pitbull/buldog blood was used to get a fisical stronger animal to take douwn bigger game!!!. in those days 4 on every 10 childeren Died befor reaching there 6th year as kids!. meat was very scares. do you think dogs like the pitbull terrier(known as the BULL and Terrier not to be confused with the bullterrier) was on a regular meat fat DIET!??? hell no. they got scraps with lots of carbs in there . and there meat sours where rodens like rats and mice IF THEY COULD GET THEM ...and many a dog died due to the diseases that came along with these rodens.
the pitbull terrier was also known as the ""poor mans racing horse"" living in the slumbs the gettos of there days. and fought in pubs..PROTIEN and FAT ore MEAT was NOT there stabel DIET!!!...
Anyway the Pitbull terrier and greyhound /Wippet are much much closer related then people realize. we all know to wel that many a pitbull terrier looks like a greyhound or wippet for that matter
here you have one of these dogs GRCH Mammy now aint that a WIPPET!!!...



http://imageshack.us/a/img841/9202/1yankeeboysgrchmammycop.jpg


ALSO THE GREYHOUND IS BEEING BRED IN A BEST TO BEST WAY, THEY DO NOT PRACTIS LINE AND ORE INBREEDING . BECUASE IF THEY DO THEY ""GET FIGHTING DOGS""""
SO THEY BREED A FAST ANIMAL TO A FAST ANIMAL REGUARDLESS OF PEDEGREE.


Let me contigneuw and show the varius oldtimers of the past slowly tru history al the way up to the modern days what they use as there diets for there/our dogs..
afther that one, a piece about FEEDING the greyhound. and in the Falllow up post (a BIG ONE that sais it al). ...

the Greyhound FAMILIER related link within the 2 BREEDS greyhound x pitbull terrier. is the sole rezen why APBT dwell so wel on greyhound feeds/ Diets/ Food and there SPECIFIC sientific divelopt and studied suplemends made for that 500.000.000 USD world wide scene ......... SO THE SLEDGE DOG STUDIES ARE COMPLEATLY IRELEVAND WHEN IT COMES TO OUR BREED!.
AS I ALREDY TRIED TO ACSPLAIN. I do realize my dislectic handycap and being word blind at the same tome can cause confusion in understanding what i trie to say..





this one i copied from another forum where whe where at it and posted these posts...... this topic was about grainless food, but it ended in the same manner where this debate is going. and that is fat ore carbs!. we all know that fat is major importend but the CARBS are beeing shuft under the table and disreguarded as non imported sours of energy. PS for those who belive that cold dens air has nothing to do with it. PLEASE READ the last 2 lines at the BOTOM. You wil see that at higher altitutes CARBSare way importend.... and it sais , (what i have been telling that FAT needs much more oxygen to burn and diliver energy)





Re: Grainless dod food



Ok people post long posts this one is mine and in 2 parts for wat its worth
Just some wel known legends of the past who fed CARBS in there diets some of them didnt use FAT at al,

yet we all know today the importense of FAT in a working dogs DIET,And AS MOST of the profesional conditioners KNOW

SO ARE carbohydrats



Thirty years with the fighting dogs by George C. Armitage



used Lean beef of the neck/bran/whole weat bread/water does not build flesh or fat/







The American Pit Bull Terrier by Joseph L. Colby



used Rump steak/sliced or dried toast/boiled lean beef/dried toast bread/







The Dog Pit by Richard K. Fox



used Rump beef steak/sliced bread/toast/







Dogs of Velvet and Steel by Bob Stevens



“In a well balanced diet the energy needs are primarily supplied by quality carbohydrates. This is not a well known fact, becayse so many people who condition dogs put so much emphasis on protein (believing it provides energy). When a Pit Bull is in his keep (training period sic to eight weeks prior to a fight), most conditioners put him on a total protein diet (generally lean meat and/or liver), with vitamin supplements, etc. – the most don’t provide any carbohydrates. This is fairly necessary in this instance because the dog must be trimmed of all fat so that he goes in as lean as possible and at his lowest weight. But many pit fighting people feed their dogs a similiar diet all the time (but give them more quantity and perhaps cut back on the extra vitamins) believing that the hight-protein diet is the best for their dogs. Actually this type of feeding is harmful to the dog. (You can’t see the harm done; that’s the problem with nutrition) Many dog owners who don’t fight their dogs feed them high-protein diets in the belief that the dog will grow bigger and stronger and have more energy. The popularity of the “high-protein”dog foods attest to this fact. As we will see, protein does contribute growth, but it does very little for energy. In addition, providing more preotein in terms of quantity (rather than quality) will not make the dog grow bigger and stronger. We will take a closer look at the misunderstood protein in awhile, but first let’s see how carbohydrates work. Starch from the carbohydrates is converted into glucose in the intestinal tract and then absorbed into the blood stream. The blood conveys this to all tissues of the body where it is oxidized (combined with oxygen) to form carbon dioxide and water. It is the oxidation process that provides energy. Glucose is often thought of as a fuel, and in a way it is. But it acts as a fuel only when it is oxidized by a comples process that requires the active participation of fatty acids (primarlity linoleic and linolenic), protein, minerals and vitamins (mostly the B-comples vitamins), in order for the cells to extract energy from the glucose. Unused carbohydrates are stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen which the body can draw upon for energy when needed. Unused protein is also converted into glucose, but the process is slower than with carbohydrates. Moreover, protein cannot be digested and assimilated unless there is a proper balance of carbohydrates and fat. The point I’m trying to make is that vitamins, minerals, protein, carbohydrates etc. are synergetic (They work together.), so that a food must be balanced. Excess protein doesn’'t build extra muscle; it’s passed through the system. In fact excess protein can be harmful if consumed over a long period of time. Excess carbohydrates are turned into fat.”



Seen through the Eyes of the Millmaker “Robert Lamm”



used Carbohydrates are composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Sugar, starch, and callulose are a few types of carbohydrates. All ordinary plants are primarily carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are fuel for the body. Any excess amounts of carbohydrates can be stored in the body and uysed when quick energy is needed. Otherwise, they are converted into body fat. Hard work stops the conversion to body fat and weight gain. Respiratory Recovery Method will protect the small amount of carbohydrates that can be stored in the body and used only during stressful situations like fight night. Five to fifteen minutes bonus energy can be retained depending on the condition of your dog’s health. If your dog is in a superior state of health, you can condition your dog harder and he can withstand a greater amount of stress, instead of your dog devoting energy to fighting nutritional dificiencies.







The Complete Game Dog by Ed and Chris Faron



Carbohydrates comes from starches and sugars. Grains and their byprodycts are usually source in dog foods. Carbohydrates provide energy. Exact dietary requirements for carbohydrates have not been established for dogs. Most dog foods contain a high percentage of carbohydrates.



DON MAYFIELD

The next thing I found out when working a dog is that they can be put in shape most anyway a person sees fit.
Since I was working on a job most of the time, the next thing I started working on was an easy way to work a dog. I had seen everyone else's way of working a dog by now, but I had something else in mind. I wanted to work a dog like a wild dog would work if he had to hunt and kill his food, more so like the big cats do, or like an eagle. They make their kill when they are very thin with no fat whatsoever on them. This is the time when most wild animals kill for food. Their blood count is on a natural high and there is no fat to make them breathe hot. This is when they are their sharpest and make their kill. Their condition at the time of the kill will not return until they are ready for their next kill. In between times the wild will tend to get fat and slow and lazy and they will have miss after miss until they lose all their fat and get sharp, hunting and working their bodies into shape.




used The feed should start with a good hi-protein dry feed about 2 cups at first with ¼ cup of wheat germ, ¼ a can mustard greens, a cup of corn bread, with vitamins of desiccated liver-tablets (7 ½ grains, start at 5 a day and work up to 15 a day) give one vitamin E (400iu) give one vitamin C (1000 milligrams) 4 papaya digestive aid, 1 iron with molasses. Try and have all your vitamins natural vitamins, you should add to your dry dog feed as much as need be. To hold you're dog at about 2 pounds over his pit-weight. Come off this vitamin E five days in front of the match. Add about 1/8 to ¼ a cup of water to his feed just enough to wet it, just before you feed. Four weeks in front of the match start with his meat, good heavy beef like bull-neck, cut the meat into small chunks about ½ in square. Start with ½ lb and add up to 1/2 lb. To ¾ lb 5 days in front of the match. Always cut all the fat out of the meat. Use only red, lean meat. Sear the meat in as little as possible and pour this juice over the meat and mix. (Just so it will be wet going down, but dry when it gets to the stomach.




For the last 5 days the feed should start to change. Feed more red meat and less Purina high-protein and more wheat germ and cereal. Also, start cutting the mustard greens. The next to the last feeding should be not more than a half a cup of Purina high-protein, a half a cup of wheat germ cereal and a half a pound of red, lean meat. Cooked in no water. Should be seared on all sides, very rare, cut in one-inch cubes, with all vitamins. The last feeding should be fed twenty-six hours before his match. Red, lean beef, cut in one-inch cubes with ¾ cup of wheat germ cereal with his vitamins. The meat should be seared in no water, very rare but, seared on all four sides with two tablespoons full of honey.







FEEDING THE RACING GREYHOUND


Your aim in feeding greyhounds is to provide a balanced diet that maintains them in good condition, and allows them to perform to their maximum potential on the racetrack. To achieve this aim you need to know what nutrients are contained in the different ingredients that make up a greyhound’s ration. A nutrient is something a greyhound needs to help it to grow, stay alive and work, as nutrients provides greyhounds with energy.

There are six nutrient groups that are needed in a greyhound’s daily ration:
1.Water
2.Protein (amino acids
3.Carbohydrates/Fiber
4.Fat
5.Vitamin
6.Minerals
These nutrients are all essential to maintain a greyhound in good health, but the specific requirements of each will vary depending on the greyhound’s size, metabolic rate, work load, and existing physical condition.

Besides the actual methods you will use in training your greyhounds, this is probably the most contentious issue you will have to decide. There are as many variations in feeding methods as there are trainers, and when one looks at the feeding methods used in the various country’s that have greyhound racing, the difference is even greater

Food has to supply all of the greyhound’s energy requirements, as well as providing the building blocks for tissue repair, including the blood and all of the internal organs. To be able to make an informed decision as to how your feeding methods are affecting the performance of your greyhounds, some of the functions of the various food components should be understood.

PROTEIN


Protein provides the ingredients required for building, strengthening and repairing the body. However, it is not protein that is absorbed and utilized by the body, but the amino acids contained within the protein. There are 10 amino acids that are essential for good health, the greyhound’s body manufactures some amino acids but most are derived from the food. It should also be understood that different proteins contain a different range of amino acids. Meat is the main ingredient in the greyhounds diet that provides much of the required protein for good health, and may include, beef, chicken, lamb or mutton. The addition of large quantities of a single amino acid to the diet should be avoided, unless it is used as a treatment for a specific problem or illness.

CARBOHYDRATE


Carbohydrates not only supply the energy required for running but also assist with many body functions such as temperature regulation and food digestion. The carbohydrates can be divided into two main groups; they are complex carbohydrates and simple carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates require processing by the body and provide for a sustained release of energy. Good sources of complex carbohydrates are grains, such as wheat, brown rice, and oats. Grains also include protein, starch, vitamins, minerals and some fatty acids, however for canines to utilize grain foods they need to be well cooked, well soaked and fed soft.

Simple carbohydrates include sugar and starch and are easily utilized by the body and in particular sugars such as glucose and fructose provide for a short-term hit of energy. Unfortunately it is a really short hit, Due to what is called the rebound effect, if you supply the body with a substance in excess, it automatically reduces the amount available.

This is particularly true of blood sugar; within 4 hours of ingesting glucose the blood sugar actually falls below normal. However if you could supply a hit of glucose about 1 hour prior to the Greyhound racing it would be great, simply because it increases the amount of ATP available and therefore increasing early pace.

FAT


Fats are an essential part of the food requirement, like carbohydrates they provide energy and are involved in temperature regulation, but more importantly they contain and are required for the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins and the production of some essential hormones.

Fats can be divided into two groups depending on their chemical composition, they are saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, the fatty acids best utilized by the canine are those of the saturated group. Good sources of essential fatty acids are; fresh raw beef, chicken, and fish oils such as cod liver oil. Unsaturated vegetable oils also contain some useable fatty acids but should be kept to a minimum, as excessive use in the diet may interfere with the absorption of some of the essential fatty acids from the saturated group.

Fatty acids are basically long chains of carbon and hydrogen and are one of the major sources of energy for the body. Unfortunately for the energy in fat molecules to be released, it requires considerable amounts of oxygen, therefore when oxygen levels are low the body basically uses blood sugar for energy.

[Limey Kennels]

Default Re: Grainless dod food



AND HERE IN THE LINK OF LINKS CONSIRNING THE VALUE OF CARBS

Feeding the Racing Greyhound

Feeding for Performance

John Kohnke BVSc, RDA

Sydney, Australia

The sport of greyhound racing has become more popular and competitive over recent years, with the breeding and

purchase of finer, sprint bred greyhounds, improved race track geometry and surfaces, which have all helped to lift

the standard of performance. Training methods have changed based on exercise physiology research and with it, the

‘science’ of feeding has provided new guidelines for feeding to optimise performance. It is now even more important

that nutrition is not a limiting factor to performance. A nutritionally adequate and well balanced diet is paramount to

health, performance and adaptation of the greyhound to the physical and metabolic stresses of racing. The racing diet

for successful competitive racing has been refined since lure racing became the industry standard for grading

wagering odds relative to body weight and performance.

Although diets were traditionally based on fresh red meat and cereal meals, with zoonotic disease risks such as BSE

and the rising cost of inspected meat in many countries, there has been a change in the staple diet for racing

greyhounds to scientifically formulated high energy dense compounded dry foods to partly or fully replace meat. As

every trainer is looking for an ‘edge’ in performance to win and an improvement in nutrition can help ensure optimum

speed and competitive racing. Traditionally, both the training and feeding of the racing greyhound has been largely

considered an ‘art’ passed on by older trainers to younger trainers, based on ‘trial and success’ rather than a ‘science’.

Although scientific calculations can provide an estimate of the relative nutritional intake, based on the established

nutritional value of each constituent in the diet, the exact scientific requirements of racing greyhounds have not been

established. Not all trainers are able to purchase the best quality feed as there is a limit to the feeding budget in a

racing kennel. When the price of a certain meat increases, trainers switch to alternatives or feed a larger proportion of

dry feed. Feeding remains one of the areas of animal nutrition still influenced by tradition and folklore, with many

time honoured feeding practices.





The ‘Science’ of Feeding

Over recent years, there have been a number of extensive reviews on the traditional methods of diet composition and

feeding practices of racing greyhounds. A number of reviews of greyhound nutrition and feeding have been published

over the last three decades, summarizing the scientific and practical aspects of dietary needs, ration formulation, and

feeding methods.1-8. Some of the data has been extrapolated from the established nutritional needs of working dogs,

with adaptations to meet the often higher needs of racing greyhounds. The ‘art’ is knowing how much feed, when to

feed, and the likes and dislikes of an individual animal.2. The ‘science’ is understanding the nutritional needs of the

greyhound, the relative value of different feeds and the benefits or disadvantages of individual ingredients or

combinations.2. A racing greyhound needs an adequate intake of energy for maintenance and exercise, which besides

water, is the most important nutrient in a diet and often the one that is limiting to performance.

Nutritional Aims

In addition to maintaining health and vitality, the diet should meet the following criteria:

1. Provide an economical, palatable, low bulk, highly digestible ration to maintain body weight within set limits and

ensure optimal performance. 2, 7, 8.

2. Provide optimal proportions of carbohydrate, protein, fat and fibre to maximize energy density while minimising

gut weight and volume compatible with efficient digestive function. 3, 7.

3. Maintain optimal hydration, electrolyte, anaerobic buffering capacity and fluid balance over a variety of climatic

conditions and racing distances. 3, 6, 7.

4. Ensure energy and nutrient balance to counteract imbalances and inadequate levels in the diet and meet the

specific metabolic demand for performance.2.

5. Provide a diet formulated to counteract physical stress on the musculoskeletal system, ensure adaptation to and

optimal recovery from racing and injury, and maintain the immune response and resistance against disease

under high-stress situations of housing and repeated physical exercise.5.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 2

Nutritional Aims (cont.)

These aims can be achieved by careful selection of feed ingredients, regular monitoring of body weight, and use of

specific supplements to correct low or inadequate feed levels relative to performance requirements and level of

stress.1-8.

[Limey Kennels]

Default Re: Grainless dod food



Highly Digestible, Minimum Bulk Diet with Adequate Nutrient Content

In addition to maintaining health and vitality common to all canine species, greyhounds are a specific athlete with

important performance related nutritional needs.

The diet must provide optimal and balanced proportions of carbohydrates, protein, fat and fibre to maximise energy

density, while minimising gut weight and feed volume compatible with efficient digestive function and power-toweight

ratio. Greyhounds have the highest power-to-weight ratio of any athlete. Gut fill and body weight has a large

influence on the speed and ultimate performance of a greyhound running over a range of distances between 300-700

metres. The traditional meat based diets with a total intake of 1000g daily (as fed) containing an average of 50-70%

fresh red meat by weight or 500-700g for an average 30 kg (66 lb) greyhound, combined with 30-50% of a low protein,

low fat dry food or kibble (300 g daily) are still popular. However, these feed combinations may be excessively bulky

for greyhounds to consume, especially as it is often fed as a single meal daily. The actual dry matter content of raw

meat in the fresh state is only 20% with water contributing the major portion of the weight and bulk. The advent of

low bulk, highly digestible extruded dry foods manufactured on a cereal and oil seed meal base, with high fat (20-30%)

and high crude protein (20-30%) as the major energy and protein sources, theoretically distends the gastrointestinal

tract to a lesser extent and are digested leaving a minimal bulk of stool.

Low bulk, complete feeds have not been well accepted in greyhound kennels because of a preference for traditional

meat-based feeding practices, as well as the perceived higher cost of these dry foods on a per kilogram basis (Table 1).

Dry foods processed by steam extrusion are designed to gelatinise starch to facilitate its digestion, enabling a reduced

feeding rate of 350-400g daily for a 30kg racing greyhound.

The negative aspect of a high protein, high fat, minimum bulk diet is that many trainers consider that the small bulk of

food leaves the greyhound appearing hungry, rather than full and content, when fed once daily compared to a more

bulky meat-based diet. The positive benefit of a low bulk, highly digestible diet is the lower stool bulk, which reduces

kennel and turn-out clean up time and less faecal odour in kennels when fresh meat is eliminated from the diet.

In countries with a warm climate, the amount of water consumed to maintain hydration can negate any weight

benefit obtained from feeding low bulk, high protein and high fat dry foods.

Various studies have found that high protein dry foods may be detrimental to speed and performance. On average, a

racing greyhound is able to run 0.1 metre/sec faster (about 2 lengths of the winning margin) over 500 metres when

fed a moderate protein diet (20-25% crude protein) as compared to a high protein diet containing in excess of 30%

crude protein.1.

These studies concluded that a dry food based diet, which contained 42% of the energy from carbohydrates, 33% from

fat and 24% from protein, provided the best dietary balance to optimise speed and performance over a standard 500

metre race distance. However, greyhounds on this diet were slightly heavier in body weight compared to greyhounds

fed a diet containing higher protein and fat, with a lower content of carbohydrate. This difference in body weight was

attributed to a greater muscle bulk in greyhounds fed on the medium protein diet.9.

How to Achieve the Optimum Carbohydrate, Fat and Protein Balance for Performance

A proportion of 50% of meat by weight in the total diet has been shown to be of benefit in helping to improve overall

speed in a racing greyhound. The ration ideally should contain a blend of meat and dry food to provide energy from

an optimum ratio of carbohydrate, fat and protein. This important balance must be provided in bulk that can be

consumed easily without adding excess gut weight.

Traditionally, Australian trainers feed a carbohydrate-based meal for breakfast in the form of cooked cereal biscuits.

The traditional evening meal is based on lean meat and dry food, with additional vegetables if required.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 3

How to Achieve the Optimum Carbohydrate, Fat and Protein Balance for Performance (cont.)

A simple calculation (in the table below) based on the energy content of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats can be used

to determine the balance needed between these foods to meet the average daily energy requirement for a

greyhound in training under moderate conditions (15-25oc). Under cold conditions below 8oc, it is best to increase

the carbohydrate content of the diet by 10%. During hot weather above 30oc, an increase in the fat content by 5-7%

will help meet the elevated energy expended as a greyhound pants to cool.

A good quality dry food can be combined with a meat base to provide the energy intake in the optimum ratios

between carbohydrate (CHO), protein and fat.

[Limey Kennels]

Default Re: Grainless dod food



fat.
GREYHOUND BALANCED DIET

Energy Content provided by a ratio of:- Carbohydrate 40-42%

Crude Protein 22-24%

Fat 30-33%

Basic Ratio on per kg body weight basis

Breakfast Kibble 12% crude protein 5g/kg bwt

Main Meal Lean Beef 10% fat 20g/kg bwt

Dry Food 20% protein

10-12% fat 15g/kg bwt

Omega 3/Omega 6 oil 0.75-1.0ml/kg bwt

The amount fed must be monitored to avoid excess body weight as the diet is very efficient in providing energy for

exercise and excess will result in weight gain.

Greyhound Body Weight 25 kg 30 kg 32 kg

Breakfast Kibble 12% protein and milk 125g 150g 160g

Main Meal Lean Beef 10% fat 500g 600g 650g

Dry Food 20% crude protein

10-12% fat

375g 450g 500g

Oil Omega 3 – Omega 6 Oils

15ml

Increasing to

20ml

18ml

Increasing to

25ml

20ml

Increasing to

30ml

A slightly higher protein diet is beneficial to greyhounds racing on a regular basis.

Notes:

1. Where a greyhound requires extra energy to maintain body weight in hard work, increase the dry food by 50-

100g per day, whilst still maintaining the optimum carbohydrate balance for energy.

2. Where an excitable greyhound becomes dehydrated in hot weather, add an additional 1 tablespoon (17g) of

fat (lard/suet, meat trimmings, copha) per 300g meat in the diet.

3. Where lean meat, such as very lean or trimmed beef, horse meat, kangaroo or chicken is used in place of lean

10-12% fat beef, add 1 tablespoon (17g) of fat (lard, suet, meat trimmings) to the diet to maintain the

optimum energy balance with the correct CHO:Protein:Fat ratio for speed and performance. Do not use fat

(dripping) from roasted meat.

4. Additional supplements of vitamin E (100iu daily), vitamin C (max 250iu daily13.) and iron (15mg daily) can be

provided, along with electrolytes.

The traditional meat-based diet contains a higher level of carbohydrates provided by cereals, rice or bread.2. Another

study suggested that greyhounds run faster race times when meat was added to a low protein and semi-lean diet,

presumably because the meat provided extra fat as an energy source.9.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 4

Provide an Economical and Palatable Ration

The high energy density of fat and the lower cost of freshly trimmed and rendered animal fat by-product of the beef,

sheep, pork and chicken meat industries, makes the combination of a fat-boosted minimal meat and commercial dry

food diet more economical as well as more palatable to racing greyhounds. Therefore, there is an increasing tendency

to feed a minimum meat diet, higher in fat and protein, to reduce feeding costs.2.

Table 1: Classes of dry food for racing greyhounds relative to meat content in diet.

Optimum Mineral, Trace Mineral, Vitamin and Electrolyte Supplementation

The provisions of nutritional supplements to correct low, imbalanced or adequate levels in meat and cereal-based dry

food rations is paramount to meet the elevated needs for minerals and electrolytes imposed on the musculo-skeletal

and metabolic system by racing. When trained and fit to race, a sound greyhound can be successfully raced twice

weekly. Adequate intake of minerals for bone development on a meat-based diet is particularly important to maintain

skeletal strength.

It is estimated that the daily calcium intake needed by a sedentary 30kg dog to maintain optimum skeletal strength is

357mg (NRC, 2006), compared to 6000-8000mg daily for a greyhound in full race training (Kohnke, 199. It is also

recommended to add 20% more vitamin D than NRC (2006) guidelines to dry food formulations; as cereal based dry

foods, even with added calcium, have been associated with an increased incidence of bone fractures (Kohnke 199.

The estimated requirement for most other minerals and trace minerals is 2-3 times higher in a racing greyhound as

compared to a resting dog.2. Recommendations for B vitamin intake and fortification of feed is at least three times

higher than NRC (2006), which reflects the higher metabolic rate during anaerobic exercise of a racing greyhound

(Kohnke, 1998; Table 2).

Demineralisation of skeletal and joint structures as a result of high-loading athletic exercise and cortisone-induced

muscle catabolism during exercise and respiratory lead to losses of fluid and complementary electrolytes, particularly

potassium.

The diet must be fortified with a large range of macro and micro nutrients to meet athletic demand and maintain body

reserves, optimum metabolic function and racing soundness.

Maintain Immune Competency

It is recommended that the ration provided for racing greyhounds contain additional nutrients such as vitamin A,

vitamin E, vitamin C and selenium to counteract immune suppression resulting from higher circulating cortisol levels in

greyhounds subjected to the stress of training and racing. This will help to maintain optimum resistance against

disease and assist recovery from racing and injury.2.

Use Energy

(Kcal ME)/100g

Crude Protein

(%) g/100g

Fat

(%) g/100g

Approx. Daily Amounts for

a 30 kg Dog

Group 1

Kibbles dry

food

Meat-based diets 270 13 2-3 200-250g daily mixed with

700g medium 12-15% fat

meat.

Group 2 Minimum meat

diets

290-300 17-20 8-19 250-300g daily mixed with

500-600g medium 12-15%

fat meat.

Group 3 Complete feeds 330-340 20-24 8-10 550-600g daily or 250-300g

mixed with 200-250g

medium 12-15% fat meat.

Group 4 High-energy

complete feeds

400 25-30 20-25 400-450g daily.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 5

Energy Requirement

Please Note: These notes were taken from Kohnke 1998 (Adapted) as the text is no longer in print.

Energy, with the exception of water, is the most important constituent of the greyhound diet.2. Diets can be

manipulated to improve oxidative yields and utilise short and medium chain carbohydrates and fatty acids over a wide

range of race distances and climatic conditions.2. Short-term, high-intensity exercise in the greyhound is fuelled mainly

from muscle glycogen and blood sugar to meet the predominantly anaerobic exercise demand.3.

The energy supply and exercise duration, intensity, and frequency are all interrelated and can be influenced by the

individual greyhound’s temperament, kennel and environmental temperature, and efficiency of metabolism.2. The

total energy requirement for a racing greyhound is a summation of maintenance, thermoregulation, exercise, and

racing expenditure, including behavioural influences and pre-race anticipation expenditure.2, 4. Regular monitoring of

body weight at least once weekly will assist in equating energy intake relative to expenditure.2. All estimates are as

metabolisable energy (ME) in kilocalories (Kcal). To convert kcal to kilojoules (kj), multiply by 4.184.

Useful Energy Equivalents for Feed Adjustment2.

Each 100gm (3 1/3 oz) of:

• Lean raw beef (10 to 12% fat) provides approximately 200 kcal ME.

• Dry food 24 to 28% crude protein, 8 to 10% crude fat provides approximately 300 to 310 kcal ME.

• Dry food 30 to 32% crude protein, 15% crude fat provides approximately 400 kcal ME.

• Each 17 gm (about ½ oz) or 20 ml (1 tablespoonful) of animal fat or vegetable oil provides approximately 150

kcal ME

[Limey Kennels]

Default Re: Grainless dod food



Maintenance. A greyhound requires approximately 132 kcal ME/kg body weight0.75 daily under temperature (15 to

25˚c or 60 to 77˚F) conditions.9. For greyhounds weighing between 25 and 35 kg, this equates to 55 to 60 kcal per kg

body weight. An average 30kg (66 pound) racing greyhound housed under temperature conditions requires

approximately 1700 kcal ME/day.2, 3. An excitable greyhound or one housed in a larger enclosure will have a higher

basal metabolic expenditure because of panting, barking, or hyper-activity in the kennel, and may require up to 2100

kcal ME daily additional fat included in the diet will increase energy input without significantly increasing ration bulk.2.

A weight check once weekly will enable adjustment of the fat intake to maintain body weight.

Thermoregulation. A greyhound housed and raced under cold weather conditions, between 10 and 15˚c, will require

an increase in energy at low range ambient temperatures to maintain body warmth.2, 5-7.

As a guide, for every 1˚c (2˚F) decrease in ambient temperature below 15˚c (60˚F), add 3 kcal ME/kg body weight0.75,

or approximately 40 kcal ME daily for a 30kg (66 pound) greyhound.6.

Under cold conditions increasing the amount of dry food (see energy equivalents above) relative to the decrease in

the ambient temperature will help to maintain body heat and body weight. Most greyhounds can consume up to a

maximum of 100 gm extra dry food (about 3 1/3 oz) daily without exceeding bulk or appetite limits. The greyhound

should be weighed at least once weekly to ensure that it is maintaining body weight. If a greyhound loses weight or

requires more energy under cold conditions, extra fat should be added to boost energy intake so as to avoid a

significant increase in the volume of feed the animal has to consume above the additional 100gm of dry food.2, 6. The

housing should be heated to a more comfortable temperature and a rug and adequate bedding provided under very

cold ambient temperatures.

During hot, and especially humid, weather, the energy expended by panting to eliminate excess heat may increase

daily requirements up to 3000 kcal ME for a 30kg greyhound.2. Exercise under these conditions may deplete glycogen

stores more rapidly.3. In addition, hot climates suppress appetite, and a more energy-dense diet boosted with fat will

help limit the ration volume, provide a useful source of metabolic water and minimise heat production from hindgut

fibre fermentation.6, 7.

High ambient temperatures for longer than 4 hours a day when a greyhound is panting will increase energy

requirements. As a guide, for a 30kg (66 pound) animal, each 1˚c (2˚F) increase between 26 and 30˚c (70 and 86˚F),

will require an extra 130 kcal ME daily and 160 kcal ME daily for a similar rise between 31 and 35˚c (88 and 95˚F).

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 6

Thermoregulation (cont.)

Under hot conditions, up to a maximum of 100 gm dry food will provide energy as well as fibre to maintain hindgut

water reserves against panting losses.6. However, for energy needs in excess of this input under hot conditions, as

appetite and feed intake are often reduced, additional fat will meet the shortfall in energy requirement and provide a

metabolic source of water to counteract dehydration.2, 6. A weight check once a week will enable dietary adjustment,

which should also be matched to weather conditions. 2, 6. Adequate electrolyte and fluid replenishment is also

essential during hot weather to avoid dehydration and weight loss.

Racing Expenditure. Total energy expenditure for a greyhound in training and raced under temperature conditions

ranges from 150 to 190 kcal ME/kg body weight0.75, or approximately 1890 to 2390 kcal ME for a 30kg (66 pound)

greyhound.5. It has been estimated that an additional 75 kcal ME is expended in each 30 second trial or race, or 4 –

5% increase over maintenance requirements. Under temperature conditions the expenditure for racing can be

provided by the standard diet.

Behavioural Influences. Excitable, barking and “hard-walking” or hyperactive greyhounds may expend valuable

energy reserves and dehydrate during training and particularly during traveling or when kennelled in the pre-race

period. Although the amount has not been quantified scientifically, a diet boosted with 30 to 60 gm (1 to 2 oz) of fat

or vegetable oil in the pre-race meal about 6 to 8 hours before racing will provide extra energy expended in pre-race

anticipation. Additional fat is recommended for nervous or hyperactive greyhounds that lose body weight, dehydrate,

or perform below optimal levels.2. Regular body weight and condition assessment with appropriate dietary

adjustment are essential to maintain racing weight limits.

ENERGY SOURCES

Carbohydrates, proteins and fat included in the ration blend provide the major sources of energy to meet

requirements.

Carbohydrates

Energy Yield and Food Content. Carbohydrates (sugars and starches) yield 3.5 kcal ME gm,3, 9. and on average,

contribute 40 - 45% of the energy in traditional racing diets.2 Meat is low in carbohydrates, contributing only to 5% of

the total carbohydrate intake from the traditional 70% meat by weight diets.2. Dry foods contribute varying amounts

of carbohydrates, mainly from cereal grains, ranging from 35 - 40% carbohydrates in dry foods containing 27 - 30%

crude protein and 15% crude fat, to 55% carbohydrates in lower protein (13% crude protein, 2 - 3% crude fat), dry

foods or kibbles.2.

Excess Carbohydrates. Excess intake of carbohydrates in the form of cereal grain starches can have a number of

adverse effects in racing greyhounds. High starch intake may increase potential glycogen over storage in muscles,

with resultant accumulation of higher lactate levels and lower clearance rates, and ultimate earlier onset of metabolic

fatigue and risk of exercise rhabdomyolysis or cramping.1, 2, 5, 8.

High intakes of poorly digested carbohydrates, particularly in the form of cereal-based lower-protein human breakfast

or dry dog foods, may also reduce protein and fat digestibility and uptake of sodium, potassium, and calcium because

of their higher fibre content.5. The higher fibre, while helpful in maintaining faecal bulk, increases iliocecal water flow

and results in wetter faeces,5, 6. with less retained as an intestinal reservoir against dehydration during hot weather.6.

Feeding pre-race snacks provide soluble short-chain sugars, such as sucrose (sugar) and glucose (dextrose) and can

lead to increased insulin sensitivity.2, 7, 10. When excess amounts are ingested in the immediate pre-race period,

rebound hyperinsulinemia may be triggered, leading to lowering of blood sugar levels. The combined hypoglycaemia

and the effect of insulin decrease on mobilisation of fatty acids and glycerol from lipid stores may also delay liver and

muscle glycogen replenishment during the pre-race kennel period.2, 7, 10. Both these effects, in theory, can cause a risk

of earlier metabolic fatigues and reduced race performance. In practice, it is widely recommended to avoid feeding

large amounts of soluble sugars in a pre-race “snack” feed, limiting to 15 gm (½ oz) glucose or 60 ml (2 oz) honey

within 4 to 6 hours before racing.2, 6, 7, 10.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 7

Proteins

Energy Yield and Food Content. Proteins yield 3.5 kcal ME per gram.3, 9. Proteins provide a source of energy, as well

as essential amino acids, for protein synthesis. As a source of available amino acids, greyhound diets should contain

30 - 35% high quality crude protein on a dry matter basis.2, 4. Protein sources contribute, on average, between 35 -

40% of the total energy needs for a racing greyhound.2, 4. Lean meat ranges from 17 - 21% crude protein on an as-fed

basis, or approximately 60% crude protein on a dry-matter basis.2, 9. Dry foods contain a wide range of crude protein,

depending on the content of meat by-products and oilseed protein sources, and commercial products range from 17 -

35% on a dry-matter basis.2. Most greyhound diets based on meat and/or dry foods to satisfy energy demands

contain adequate protein to meet daily requirements.

Excess Protein. High intakes of protein increase the cost of the ration blend, and the elimination of excess poorquality

protein, such as contained in cereal-based dry foods, is an energy-consuming process. It is much more

economical, and metabolically more efficient, to feed a diet containing adequate protein, with additional energy

provided by fat to greyhounds, during hot weather or those competing in longer-distance races.2.

Fats or Lipids

Energy Yield and Food Content. Fat or lipids yield 8.5 kcal ME/gram, or approximately 2.25 times that of

carbohydrates or protein.3, 9. Fats are a useful energy-dense feed that provide an energy boost without adding

excessive volume or weight to the ration.2. The lipids in fats and oils are a palatable, highly digestible source of

energy; greyhound diets should contain at least 12 – 15% fat on an as-fed basis, and greyhounds can tolerate up to 25

– 30% fat on a dry-matter basis.2. Higher fat intake is recommended for excitable, hyperactive greyhounds and during

hot or very cold weather conditions.2.

Both animal and plant oils and fats are highly digestible. Lipids with a high percentage of short-chain (unsaturated)

fatty acids remain liquid (oils) at room temperature.2. As the percentage of long-chain fatty acids increases, the lipid

becomes solid at room temperature as a fat and digestibility is reduced in fats with high long-chain saturated

content.2, 6. Short to medium chain saturated triglycerides, as contained in coconut, canola, palm, and copha are

considered better utilised, as these lipids are digested by pancreatic enzymes without need for bile emulsification.4.

Although it is suggested that up to 25% of the total fat be provided by these sources of short to medium chain

triglycerides,4. greyhounds may not readily accept these items in their diet. Stepwise introduction over 7 to 10 days

may be necessary to obtain acceptance.6.

Excess Fat. High intakes of long-chain saturated fats, such as beef and mutton fat (trimmings or suet) or butter fat,

can reduce overall lipid digestibility, although greyhounds find these animal fats naturally more acceptable. 2, 4.

Animal fat sources are generally cheap to purchase as trimmed fat or omental fat from carcasses. However, if more

than 60 gm (2 oz) of animal-derived fat is required to boost energy content in the ration during hot weather, or in

dehydrated greyhounds, it is preferable to provide additional fat in the form of vegetable oil.2.

Essential Fatty Acids. Greyhounds require essential fatty acids. The diet should contain at least 1% of linoleic acid, an

omega-6 fatty acid, on a dry matter basis, or 2% of ME intake, to prevent the characteristic dry, flaking dermatitis

associated with a deficiency in dogs.11. Linoleic acid is the precursor of other linoleic acid family members, linolenic

and arachidonic acid, if adequate linoleic acid is available in the diet.11.

CONCLUSION

Greyhounds are elite athletic animals which are subjected to extreme physical exertion during racing and the

cumulative effects of environmental, metabolic and physical stress when trained and raced on a regular basis. They

must be provide with a palatable, low bulk, high energy-dense ration, with a medium crude protein and fat content to

maintain competitive speed and stamina within set limits of body weight. An adequate intake of minerals, trace

minerals, electrolytes and vitamins to correct low, imbalanced or inadequate levels in meat-based diets, in particular,

is essential to maintain musculo-skeletal soundness, optimum metabolic activity, strong immune status and overall

health in greyhounds racing between a relatively young age of 15 months to a mature age of between 3 and 4 years.15.

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 8

Table 2: Recommended daily intake (RDI) for a 30 kg resting and racing greyhound on a combined meat and dry

food diet. Updated from Kohnke 2002.15.

Nutrient

Recommended daily intake

(RDI) Practical guidelines for feeding racing greyhounds.

Resting Racing

Calcium 3570 mg 600-800 mg Supplement meat-based diets to 75% of RDI, dry food

diets to 30% RDI: essential in all young greyhounds in

training for musculo-skeletal development.

Phosphorus 2670 mg 5000 mg

Magnesium 246 mg 800-900 mg Add 50% RDI to the diets of nervous or cramping

greyhounds or hot weather.

Iron 20 mg 60 mg

maximum

Add 50% RDI, especially to chicken or fish-based diets

that are inherently low in iron.

Copper 1.8 mg 5 mg Add 50% RDI, especially to chicken or fish-based diets

that are inherently low in copper.

Zinc 21.6 mg 65 mg

maximum

Add 50% RDI to dry foods if calcium is supplemented.

Manganese 3.0 mg 6.0 mg Add 50% RDI to meat-based diets.

Selenium 100 ug/kg diet 200 ug/kg diet Add 100% RDI to high meat diets, 50% to dry food diets

(fish has high Se concentrations).

Iodine 0.36 mg 1.0 mg Add 50% RDI to high carbohydrate diets to optimize

metabolism.

Sodium 330 mg 3000-5000 mg

maximum

Do not add extra if more than 300g dry food with 1%

salt is fed; add 50% RDI to diet in hot weather.

Potassium 2670 mg 4500 mg

maximum

Add 50% RDI in hot weather, cramping, nervous

greyhounds.

Vitamin A

(retinal)

2250 IU

(0.675 mg)

3375 IU

(1.0 mg)

Add 50% RDI to lean-meat diets.

Vitamin D

(cholecalciferol)

240 IU

(0.06 ug)

260 IU

(0.09 ug)

Add 50% RDI to lean meat diets, or 360 IU (1.2 ug) when

calcium is included in cereal-based dry food.

Vitamin E

(tocopherol)

15 IU

(15 mg)

30-100 IU

(30-100 mg)

Freezing meat destroys vitamin E: add 50% RDI to meat

diets and up to 100% RDI in fat-boosted diets or high fat

dry diets. Do not exceed 400 IU daily as it may affect

performance (Marshall 20002 – optimum 100 IU daily,

pre-race 150-200 IU).

Thiamin

(Vitamin B1)

600 ug 1.8 mg Add at least 50% RDI to meat-based diets.

Riboflavin

(Vitamin B2)

1.5 mg 4.5 mg Add 100% RDI to fat-boosted diets.

Niacin 6.75 mg 20 mg Add 50% RDI daily when racing regularly on high energy

diets.

Pantothenate 6.0 mg 18 mg Add 50% RDI to diets containing cooked foods (stews)

Pyridoxine

(Vitamin B6)

0.6 mg 2.0 mg Add 50% RDI to high protein dry foods.

Cyanocobalamin

(Vitamin B12)

15 ug 45 ug Add 100% RDI to chicken or fish-based diets, which are

inherently low in vitamin B12.

Folic acid (folacin) 120 ug 360 ug Add 50% RDI to all racing diets.

Vitamin C Internally

synthesised

250-300 mg

can be

supplemented

[Limey Kennels]

Default Re: Grainless dod food



Add 100% RDI when racing regularly, but not exceeding

300 mg daily. Limit 250mg daily. Pre-race 500mg.

Supplementing with 1,000mg daily appeared to slow

racing greyhounds (Marshall et 2002)

(Adapted from Kohnke, 2002)

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 9

Table 3 – Foods for Greyhounds

Average Value as Fed Per 100g – (Adopted and Updated from Kohnke 1989,2. Hoskins & Kohnke 1994.14.

Metabolisable

Energy

(Kcals ME)

Crude

Protein (%)

(g)

Fat (%)

(g)

Calcium mg Iron mg

BEEF

Lean (Skirt/Beef flap) 123 22.4 4.6 7.0 2.1

Semi Lean 185 19.5 12.5 6.5 2.0

Lean-Medium 2/0 18.9 12.5 6.0 1.9

Medium 268 17.9 21.2 6.5 1.6

Medium-Fatty 280 16.3 25 4.5 1.3

Fatty 330 15.0 30 4 1.2

CHICKEN

Lean (meat only no skin) 107 20.3 5 6 0.6

Cull hen (meat only no skin) 165 190 10 5.5 0.45

Skin (boiled) 223 16.1 17.1 10 0.7

Cull hen (minced whole no

feathers, gut out)

250 21.2 19.4 200 (with bone) 1.0

Necks (minced with bone) 233 13.2 18.6 800 (high

proportion of

bone)

1.2

Feet (washed, boiled, minced,

whole)

96 15 5 2100 3.0

HORSE (meat only)

130 (average)

(110-150)

18.0-20.6

(average)

4-9% 170-200 4.2-4.8

SHEEP Lamb (leg meat) 240 17.9 18.7 6.0 1.7

MUTTON (leg meat) 265 15.5 22 5.5 1.5

Whole carcase no bones

minced

333 14.6 30.5 4.5 1.4

VEAL (meat lean average) 103 19.0 2.6 8.3 1.7

RABBIT (raw meat) 130 21.9 4.0 20.0 1.9

BEEF OFFAL

Beef Heart (raw) 100 18.2 3.0 5.0 5.0

Beef Kidney 91 17.1 2.5 15 5.4

Beef Liver 157 20.0 8.6 6.0 5.8

Tongue 200 17.2 14.6 6.0 3.2

Beef Tripe (cooked) 83 14.4 2.8 19 0.3

SHEEP OFFAL

Heart (raw) 122 17.8 5.6 5 3.9

Kidney 191 17.1 2.5 11 9.8

Liver 162 21.4 7.5 6 7.5

Tongue 200 15.3 15.5 7 1.9

FISH

Average (not cod) 100 18.0 1.0 27 1.1

MILK

Cows whole 65 3.3 3.5 120 0.05

Cows skimmed 59 3.6 0.1 120 -

Powdered Dry (non-fat) 363 35.9 0.8 1310 1.0

EGGS

Whole eggs with shell 147 12.3 10.9 9546 2

Whites 36 3.6g/yolk Trace 5.0 0.1

Yolk 58 (per yolk) 2.7g/yolk 12.2 45 0.4

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 10

Metabolisable

Energy

(Kcals ME)

Crude

Protein (%)

(g)

Fat (%)

(g)

Calcium mg Iron mg

BREAD (Wholemeal/White)

216 (60/slice

28g)

8.8 2.7 23 2.5

White

233 (58.8/slice

25g)

7.8 1.7 100 1.7

FAT (fat trimmed from beef)

736 (147/18g

tbsp)

5.2 78.8 Trace 0.2

Lard, Suet

902 (153/18g

tbsp.)

- 100 - -

Polyunsaturated Vegetable Oils

884 (150/17g

tbsp)

- - - -

Table 4: Energy Equation Calculations

Carbohydrate Protein Fat

3.5 Kcals ME/g 3.5 Kcals ME/g 8.7 Kcals ME/g

Calculating Carbohydrate Content of Dry Food

Protein % + Fat % + Ash (9%) + Moisture (10%) + CHO = 100%

25% + 15% + 9% + 10% + CHO = 41%

25g

87.5 Kcal ME

15g

130.5 Kcal ME

- - 41g

143 Kcal ME

TOTAL

361 Kcals

ME/100g

Feeding the Racing Greyhound for Performance Page 11

[FrostyPaws]

Being from MS and feeding a fat/protein low carb diet, I can tell you that I've went into the mountains and won. The dogs didn't fall flat on their face.

I don't believe anyone said anything about a steady pace. Sled dogs don't run a steady pace during their races, nor do bulldogs when being conditioned. The dog's primary energy source is fat. That's a fact. So that means what?? That they're going to utilize fat MORE than carbs as they're not needed as they are in humans. Those facts aren't debatable. People will continue to carb load their dogs, but they fail to realize they're simply shortchanging their dog.

[FrostyPaws]

Whether greyhounds have bulldog blood in their veins or not is a moot point. Greyhounds are SPRINT animals, so yes, they should get more carbs as they're relying on fast burning energy for a quick race. For endurance type animals, while carbs are important, they're simply nowhere near as important as fat.

[Limey Kennels]

Your mis understand the Carbo loading REZEN!!. Nobody EVER said ore CLAIMED that, pit dogs should be workt and fed carbs alone to rely on during a show!!.
the carbs are MEARLY added to give a dog 1 a fast start 2 ad 10/15 min of extra energy... And IF the fat protien uponend is of superior quality then no carbo loading wil give him advantige. people should learn how to put things in perspectif!!... if 2 dogs being equal then its a diferend story....

[FrostyPaws]

I don't misunderstand the carb loading reason. I disagree with your comparisons. No one insinuated, or claimed that you said that carbs alone are to be relied upon a show. In regards to greyhounds, they need higher carbs. Bulldogs do not. Carb loading isn't needed in dogs if you're able to replenish the carbs to 100% after every work out. Therefore your carb levels are at optimum levels when needed.