View Full Version : Being a Dogman ain't easy
There are so many stressers in these dogs that prove this job is a difficult one. So many goals that are almost reached but get snatched away at the last moment. Friendships bud only to wilt away leaving you regretting you ever met. Not to mention the shift in society and their furthering perversion toward animals. It's a battle one thinks he can not win.
But on the bright side the rewards are great, those friendships that do blossom turn into a lifelong journey of self discovery and badass memories. The goals you achieve that far surpassed your expectations, they may be few but they are great. The Bulldogs who forever stamp themselves in your heart where ever and whomever they may have come.
I'm glad I met my first Bulldog and hope I never know when I've met my last....
S_B
BRICKFACE
05-03-2017, 07:06 PM
So much truth to this. Ppl I knew when i got into these dogs have past away, or are not even in the dog's anymore. I just talked to one of my mentors The other day and he said those tree huggers came and took away over 30yrs of hard work. He told me "risk vs reward, it ain't worth it anymore."
Keep a small yard, healthy hounds, keep em well fed, and an even smaller circle.
bulldoghistorian
05-04-2017, 05:29 AM
shit got complicated right
every 7 years people dissapear they chase other objectives leaving you exposed
after a couple of these cycles u get tired , u get weary , u dont want to bother anymore
I feel ya
SOUR-MASH
05-07-2017, 01:57 PM
There are so many stressers in these dogs that prove this job is a difficult one. So many goals that are almost reached but get snatched away at the last moment. Friendships bud only to wilt away leaving you regretting you ever met. Not to mention the shift in society and their furthering perversion toward animals. It's a battle one thinks he can not win.
But on the bright side the rewards are great, those friendships that do blossom turn into a lifelong journey of self discovery and badass memories. The goals you achieve that far surpassed your expectations, they may be few but they are great. The Bulldogs who forever stamp themselves in your heart where ever and whomever they may have come.
I'm glad I met my first Bulldog and hope I never know when I've met my last....
S_B
Well written S_B.
This is written from purely a historic standpoint and is in no way meant to reflect anyone of any action from a modern and present day standpoint.
The truth is, is that whether it's here on TPBB or APBTOP's or G-D's, the vast majority are what I call sporting dog enthusiasts.
The sporting dog enthusiast is a dogman from afar and far from a dogman. The sporting dog enthusiast has one, maybe two "gamedogs" bought from a wholesale peddler that live a good life of luxury as a trusted family pet. Before the sporting dog enthusiast has even picked up his new puppy at his local airport he will have created an online pedigree, given the puppy a cool sounding name (of course that is not the dogs pet name and the wife sure as Hell doesn't know about the other).
After getting his puppy home and having played with him some, the sporting dog enthusiast will add one of the following words for effect : "fire" , "mouth" along with "thanks *@*". Then there is the official announcement on his online forum of choice to which he is congratulated by his fellow sporting dog enthusiasts.
Another trademark of the sporting dog enthusiast is their ability to retain online factual game-dog information and in turn type those quotes as needed ie. "reboy dogs have a soft mouth but great air" uh huh and "eli dogs have hard mouths but are barn burners" uh huh. Last but not least they will defend the honour of the peddler whom sold them the dog as though they were blood kin.
In reality most sporting dog enthusiasts would shit their pants with just the company that gather for the larger shows. I would doubt very much if they have ever seen an actual match outside of some pictures or a grainy video found from searching the shit out of Google.
Ask yourself these questions :
have you ever stuck to dogs together for breeding ?
have you ever watched over a bitch as she was having her pups, ready to step in if an emergency should arise ?
have you ever had to nurse an entire litter yourself should the bitch decided she wanted nothing to do with her litter ?
have you put in the essential time during the 6th week to 14th week critical imprinting period with an entire litter ?
have you ever evaluated an entire litter and know when to cull and when to give the pups a little more time ?
have you ever schooled your own younger dogs ?
have you ever taken care of a yard yourself ? Provided a clan space for each dog to live ? Provide adequate shade in the summer and warmth in the winter ? Provided fresh, clean drinking water 3 times a day or more ? Provided the best possible feed ? Provided each with the right medical care ?
have you ever put a dog through a keep ?
have you ever handled your dog in a contest ?
have you ever had to show show the same grit as your dog during a contest and talk them through a tough spot ?
have you ever had to make the call as to when to pick ? Do you know enough as to when to pick up ? Do you care enough to pick up ?
have you the know how to provide emergency aftercare yourself ?
have you ever made a decision about when to retire and when to continue to campaign ?
have you ever been busted ?
have you ever had your entire yard taken and euthanized ?
have you ever faced your punishment and not snitched ?
have you ever had to start from scratch knowing the risks were now even greater ?
have you ever win, lose or draw conducted yourself as a sporting gentleman ?
Well sir, if you have checked of the yes box, you are an avid dogman and credit to the sport and your dogs.
Equally well written SOUR-MASH!
From a purely historical view of course.... Those are questions true dogmen can answer.
That is the meat of my post, and the bitter sweetness is that the MAJORITY of those, considered good dogmen fall short of answering most of those questions with a YES.
It is unfortunate, but accepted by most. I like the road less traveled....it may be lonely but I don't have too many regrets.
As for the "enthusiasts" they can have their place. The problem lies with the evil minded folks on both sides, that's when all the good sours for everyone.
S_B
SOUR-MASH
05-07-2017, 04:53 PM
Equally well written SOUR-MASH!
From a purely historical view of course.... Those are questions true dogmen can answer.
That is the meat of my post, and the bitter sweetness is that the MAJORITY of those, considered good dogmen fall short of answering most of those questions with a YES.
It is unfortunate, but accepted by most. I like the road less traveled....it may be lonely but I don't have too many regrets.
As for the "enthusiasts" they can have their place. The problem lies with the evil minded folks on both sides, that's when all the good sours for everyone.
S_B
Yes, I couldn't agree more. I have nothing against the sporting dog enthusiasts, what I have a problem with is when people become angry with very petty disagreements on online chat-forums and begin to incriminate others regardless if it's intentional or not or cause dogmen to incriminate themselves in anger. Dogmen come from all walks of life but in many cases they come from hardship, where reputation is everything and where talking the talk could have serious repercussions. Keep this mentality in mind when a person is trash talking them from a comfortable home in a good area with their "gamedog" asleep on the couch next to them. It's only to easy for a real dogman to type incriminating information about themselves in an attempt to defend their reputation by some armchair dogman.
Yes, I couldn't agree more. I have nothing against the sporting dog enthusiasts, what I have a problem with is when people become angry with very petty disagreements on online chat-forums and begin to incriminate others regardless if it's intentional or not or cause dogmen to incriminate themselves in anger. Dogmen come from all walks of life but in many cases they come from hardship, where reputation is everything and where talking the talk could have serious repercussions. Keep this mentality in mind when a person is trash talking them from a comfortable home in a good area with their "gamedog" asleep on the couch next to them. It's only to easy for a real dogman to type incriminating information about themselves in an attempt to defend their reputation by some armchair dogman.
These dogs are just competitive, whether you're pulling, showing, hog hunting or breeding everyone wants to be the best to ever do it. Add the dynamic of anonymity and it makes some go from meek to freak. lol
I myself have fallen into the online "trap" of saying things I shouldn't have or provoking someone to do the same. Hind sight is always 20/20.
Something you said made me think of a good friend of mine. Someone who became a dogman in his teens and will die one. Hardship is his middle name. The man will give anything he has to a stranger. There simply isn't any value in anything other than a dog to him. He's a very special man, and I love him like family, I want things to be easier for him, but his personality will never allow it. He's certainly not a criminal or a theif, and he's been tested hard and he's no rat.
It's like we as humans never actually grow up, when we were kids we'd get into riffs with our friends, next thing you know it's off to the principles office because your friends told on you. Same situation much harder lessons or consequences.
Good discussion, it's been lacking here lately, I think most here forgot how to communicate. lol Hopefully more folks will chime in. Glad to have you here SOUR-MASH, keep the conversation coming!
S_B
I agree with the posts above. It is hard to talk about dogs and not talk about dogs at the same time. If that makes sense.
I was turned onto dogs as a kid by a loud and obnoxious man. Very few people liked him but he was much respected because of his dogs and he may be the perfect definition of 'open to the world' (way back when). He was a man of action, which in the dogs, is how it should be. If he were involved in one of these spats he would show up at your front door with two dogs in hand. You could put up or shut up at that point. Problem solved.
In todays climate that would put you in the slammer in a quick minute.
I liked the reference to the guy with the 'gamedog' asleep on the couch. I think that is where a huge disconnect develops. The guy that just checked two or three of his young dogs can't and should not be on top of the mountain shouting their praises. Some do. The disconnect is when the guy with a dog who has never had bumps and bruises shouts from that mountain.
The competitive nature of people will always call him out. The exchange starts and before you know it there is enough information out there to fill a cell block. Happens all the time.
It has happened before, it happens in any and every competitive endeavor but the kicker is the internet. We put it out there for all to see, even when we do not intend to do so.
The fact one pays a subscription to this site, and others, can get the ball rolling.
I have read many a feat on the internet and wanted to go snatch ol
Spot off the chain and set things straight. Read things and have had things said to me on the internet that made me want to grab Spot and go. The I take a deep breath and say, "Don't let a dumbass make me into a dumbass".
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-08-2017, 04:52 AM
Two great posts guys and definitely food for thought to anyone reading.
I liked your questions. I was answering as I read, yep, yep, yep, yep. At some point I was going to have to admit I have a problem.
The guy that turned me onto dog back then ran with Mr. Edwards, Mr. Stephenson, Ms. Marlowe, Mr. Bass, Mr. Colopy, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Jackson and the guys of that era in and around the Carolinas. He use to tell us kids that if we did all we wanted to do in these dogs and at the end of that time, however short or however long, and no one knew you name. That is called mission accomplished.
On the flip side he would say.. "people know, people find out, you can't hide from good dogs and you can't hide behind good dogs".
Those were different times.
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-08-2017, 05:19 PM
I liked your questions. I was answering as I read, yep, yep, yep, yep. At some point I was going to have to admit I have a problem.
The guy that turned me onto dog back then ran with Mr. Edwards, Mr. Stephenson, Ms. Marlowe, Mr. Bass, Mr. Colopy, Mr. Brewer, Mr. Jackson and the guys of that era in and around the Carolinas. He use to tell us kids that if we did all we wanted to do in these dogs and at the end of that time, however short or however long, and no one knew you name. That is called mission accomplished.
On the flip side he would say.. "people know, people find out, you can't hide from good dogs and you can't hide behind good dogs".
Those were different times.
EWO
The Carolinas has always had such a rich history within the sporting dog world with some of the best dogmen to ever handle a bulldog and some of the very best bulldogs to ever look through a collar.
I can remember being a kid and not being able to go when they left with the dogs. We had made a old horse barn into a clubhouse where we camped out. My best friend and I would 'camp out' on those nights. It was our ploy to be up when they got back to hear the news.
It was the Carolinas in the late 70's and early 80's. We camped a lot. LOL
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-09-2017, 04:45 PM
Nice, thanks for sharing that. It's funny, seems the older I get the more time I spend reflecting on the past and as these ol' bulldogs have been a life long love affair, I am often reflecting on my life and experiences shared with and around them. Many, many years ago when I was a yard boy learning what I could I remember my mentor telling me to stick two dogs together for a breeding he wanted doing lol. Well sir, till the day he passed away he always called my Poop Chute lol, so my aim was a little off lol.....good memories.
Funny.
I'm not sure if I was a yard man or not but from the time I was 10 or so, til high school my best friend had to clean, rake, water and feed all the dogs before he could go play. The fastest way for that to happen was us doing it together.
My biggest reflection is not so much the dogs and people but the changing of the times. Imaging a 10 year old walking down the road with a 46lb. match dog pulling him forward and the kid leaning back for all he is worth. There were two fields on opposite sides of the road with a tree line hiding both of them. As a 10-11 year old kid one of our job's was to hand walk dogs. There were grading sticks set up with painted ends. At each grade marker you in hook the traces and drop the chains. My best friend would come along with the dog he was walking and hook up. We made laps around those fields and back to the house where the ol' man was sitting on a bucket. He would put on the treadmill for ever so long, then back to hand walking.
It was great set up and worked beautifully. Even with that experience I made the decision once a dog had been touched he was off limits to my son at that age.
Times and perspectives change. Reflection is a big part of these dogs once the years roll by.
EWO
We would get a dollar a mile back then. I could make three-four-five dollars in an evening after school. $5 in the rural south as 10 year old in 1979 was just about being a Rockefeller. LOL
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-10-2017, 08:35 AM
Funny.
I'm not sure if I was a yard man or not but from the time I was 10 or so, til high school my best friend had to clean, rake, water and feed all the dogs before he could go play. The fastest way for that to happen was us doing it together.
My biggest reflection is not so much the dogs and people but the changing of the times. Imaging a 10 year old walking down the road with a 46lb. match dog pulling him forward and the kid leaning back for all he is worth. There were two fields on opposite sides of the road with a tree line hiding both of them. As a 10-11 year old kid one of our job's was to hand walk dogs. There were grading sticks set up with painted ends. At each grade marker you in hook the traces and drop the chains. My best friend would come along with the dog he was walking and hook up. We made laps around those fields and back to the house where the ol' man was sitting on a bucket. He would put on the treadmill for ever so long, then back to hand walking.
It was great set up and worked beautifully. Even with that experience I made the decision once a dog had been touched he was off limits to my son at that age.
Times and perspectives change. Reflection is a big part of these dogs once the years roll by.
EWO
In many ways it's sad to see the modern direction of the sport but that is not to say there is still not top notch dogmen and woman, as well as first class shows going on and I know this next comment will be controversial but I honestly feel that the upper best of dogs today are better then at any other point in history and the men behind those fine animals deserve all the credit in the world. I personally feel it's just not worth it to attend smaller shows because of rats, thugs, rubs as well as law enforcement coming in at any time. Of course I am just someone who appreciates this from a historic standpoint and have no first hand knowledge or know anyone first hand who partakes in fighting dogs at present time. I comment only on what I have read and what is readily available to anyone with access to the internet.
I kind sorta agree.
The biggest improvement in the dogs is not so much the dogs but the advancement in nutrition and supplementation across the board. The daily feed, even out of bag is better than times past.
I remember feeding Field Trial. Fill a bucket 1/2 full of dog food, fill with water and thirty minutes later there is a 5 gallon bucket of mush. Even a feather or two. This stuff was maybe a step better than card board in comparison to the feeds available today.
High end people understand this more so than ever and feed an athlete as an athlete. Once upon a time it was whatever slop kept them from starving to death and then a keep feed. Keep feeds of yesteryear are closer to daily maintenance feeds of today.
Take the dogs back in time or bring the older dogs to the present and I put my money on the older dogs. One the majority of dog men back then were doing dogs. There were some peddling and hoo-doing no doubts, but there was a higher percentage of people in the dogs were doing the dogs.
Today there are far more people with dogs who are not doing dogs. There is a lot of money to be made with no risk. The risks of today puts things in a smaller box where as back then you could put a sign on the side of the road advertising game dogs.
The very best dog of today may very well win over the very best dog of yesteryear. It could be a coin flip as well. But take the top 10, top 20 of yesteryear against their present day counterparts and I think the older dogs take the majority.
Another factor would be the same reasoning for the older dog men vs. the newer group.
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-11-2017, 05:19 AM
I kind sorta agree.
The biggest improvement in the dogs is not so much the dogs but the advancement in nutrition and supplementation across the board. The daily feed, even out of bag is better than times past.
I remember feeding Field Trial. Fill a bucket 1/2 full of dog food, fill with water and thirty minutes later there is a 5 gallon bucket of mush. Even a feather or two. This stuff was maybe a step better than card board in comparison to the feeds available today.
High end people understand this more so than ever and feed an athlete as an athlete. Once upon a time it was whatever slop kept them from starving to death and then a keep feed. Keep feeds of yesteryear are closer to daily maintenance feeds of today.
Take the dogs back in time or bring the older dogs to the present and I put my money on the older dogs. One the majority of dog men back then were doing dogs. There were some peddling and hoo-doing no doubts, but there was a higher percentage of people in the dogs were doing the dogs.
Today there are far more people with dogs who are not doing dogs. There is a lot of money to be made with no risk. The risks of today puts things in a smaller box where as back then you could put a sign on the side of the road advertising game dogs.
The very best dog of today may very well win over the very best dog of yesteryear. It could be a coin flip as well. But take the top 10, top 20 of yesteryear against their present day counterparts and I think the older dogs take the majority.
Another factor would be the same reasoning for the older dog men vs. the newer group.
EWO
We will agree to disagree on this one my friend but one do raise some valid points for sure and certainly the argument can be made.
Absolutely. it is a common debate.
In theory they should be better based on selection over time. Some have but there is so much more money involved in the dogs now, so much more to be made.
Maybe I hold the dogs on a higher plane, yet do not have a lot of faith in my fellow man. LOL
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-11-2017, 03:58 PM
One of the biggest slights dogmen of today are faced with more so then those of yesterday is public awareness, law enforcement, animal rights groups and the judicial system handing out prison sentences that surpass in many cases that of sex offenders. In North America this makes it extremely hard to keep larger yards, harder to school younger dogs and even harder to travel freely and match into the best from different areas, let alone countries. All of this hinders dog and dogman alike which is why we are seeing such a rapid progression in top caliber dogs and dogmen overseas (where animal rights and laws are not as strict) to the point North Americans are importing dogs from countries that not so long ago the exported to.
All of that said I have know and have known men from every era and now as in then, there will always be standouts in both dog and man but for the dogs if I had to lay my money on a top 10 of the modern era in their prime vs a top 10 of the past, I would beat on the dogs of today to get the more W's.
Absolutely. it is a common debate.
In theory they should be better based on selection over time. Some have but there is so much more money involved in the dogs now, so much more to be made.
Maybe I hold the dogs on a higher plane, yet do not have a lot of faith in my fellow man. LOL
EWO
Couldn't of said it better!!! Especially the last part. I expect as much from people as I do my dogs, seems I'm more often disappointed in the people. lol
Great discussion guys!
S_B
Good points. I can se both sides.
I sort of lean to the dogs of yesteryear over all because back then you could ride up and down the road and it was easier on the mind.
There use to be a Sunday morning breakfast at AB's and the roll sets of dogs til sundown. I would not be within ten miles of set up like that in todays climate.
I do agree that if it were strictly elite vs. elite I would go with todays dogs but more so because of nutrition, supplementation and the scientific advances in conditioning. Today's elite athlete should have the advantage thru breeding selection and advances in nutrition/supplementation.
If we went Top 10 then and now I would call it a push. Go Top 20 and I think the W's would start swinging to yester year. Mostly because of more quality across the board.
There was money to be made back then but nothing like today. The number of people were leas but the percentages of those people kept higher standards. There is more money today. More people with less than honorable intentions thus across the board the quality of the dogs fade.
Its a great topic. Mostly because there is no right answer. Neither side can be quantified. Just solid points.
EWO
SOUR-MASH
05-11-2017, 05:52 PM
Good points. I can se both sides.
I sort of lean to the dogs of yesteryear over all because back then you could ride up and down the road and it was easier on the mind.
There use to be a Sunday morning breakfast at AB's and the roll sets of dogs til sundown. I would not be within ten miles of set up like that in todays climate.
I do agree that if it were strictly elite vs. elite I would go with todays dogs but more so because of nutrition, supplementation and the scientific advances in conditioning. Today's elite athlete should have the advantage thru breeding selection and advances in nutrition/supplementation.
If we went Top 10 then and now I would call it a push. Go Top 20 and I think the W's would start swinging to yester year. Mostly because of more quality across the board.
There was money to be made back then but nothing like today. The number of people were leas but the percentages of those people kept higher standards. There is more money today. More people with less than honorable intentions thus across the board the quality of the dogs fade.
Its a great topic. Mostly because there is no right answer. Neither side can be quantified. Just solid points.
EWO
Yes I agree, I disagree but thankfully we are two people that share a common passion. You really express your opinions well EWO and you are very knowledgeable as I have seen from various post by you. Cheers
Much respect for you and yours as well.
Nothing wrong with disagreeing on a topic of discussion.
If we all agreed, we would have the same family of dogs, breed for the same reasons, work them all the same and show up on Saturday night tp participate in the inevitable draw. Ending in a tie is a lot like kissing your sister. Not much fun there. LOL
There is not a lot of things 'cookie cutter' in these dogs which is about the best way it could be.
Enjoyed it. Keep posting.
EWO