Combat Dogs & Children?

[Officially Retired]

I know most people think pit bulls should have "great temperaments," I certainly do, but how does this apply with children?

I personally have never felt it is an entirely good idea to have any bulldog alone with children, no matter how seemingly-sweet the dog is, especially with very small children. The fact is, all dogs are predators, and a pit bull is nothing but a highly-specialized predator designed to dispatch smaller animals and even be able to attack and control very large animals. And, while I do believe that the breed should be (and most often is) "people friendly" ... I am not sure this always spills over to children.

From a dog's point of view, children are small, squeaky, erratic creatures compared to adults. Where a bulldog looks "up" to an adult man or woman, it looks "down" on a very small, squeaky child. I believe sometimes it is very dangerous to leave any baby or toddler alone with a bulldog, especially if the bulldog was not used to a baby in the house ... and suddenly one day a new child is brought into the house. Lots of utterly clueless new parents have discovered to their horror what can happen in these instances.

And, even in a case where a seemingly sweet dog that's "good with kids" is enjoyed by a family ... what if one day A CAT is at the window, and the dog goes apeshit after the cat, and a little boy or girl tries to grab the now-geeked-up bulldog? What happens then? :shock:

Hell, I have been bit by my own dogs in the corner a time or two, dogs that were normally friendly, but who (now that they're geeked-up and wanting to scratch back) will do "whatever it takes" to be released and go back into an opponent. Red Sonja (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=1043) in particular comes to mind. Here was a bitch who was as sweet as a dog could be to people. Loved children and would snuggle up to them. But, if Red Sonja ever made contact with another animal, or got geeked-up over a flirt pole or hide, "the whole moving world" became fair game: your hands, your legs, a rake, whatever was a'movin' she was a'grabbin' :twisted: Red Sonja would even grab the pit wall or carpet when she was geeked-up in the corner and would have to be pried-off with a stick. Her eyes would get big and round, like she was in some kind of euphoric trance once she was "on," and I sure as hell would hate to see what she might do to a little boy or girl who tried to "play ball" with her :shock: And yet there was not a drop of "meanness" in what she was doing: she was happy as hell.

So, as an offshoot of the "human aggressive" pit bull, the man-killer, what about the normally-sweet dog that loses all ability to reason once it's "on"? I know A LOT of pit dogs are like this, sweet under every "normal" instance, and yet wildly-intense once they're "on," so is it really such a good idea to leave these dogs alone with kids? Because, again, I can think of a lot of dogs, that aren't true man-killers ... that even LOVE children under controlled conditions ... that I would still never leave alone with any child, never in a million years, because IF they get "geeked-up" ... then they are as dangerous to a child as any mankiller, without actually being a mean dog.

How do you judge a dog like that, whose natural temperament is to be sweet and calm, but whose "combat intensity" is so great, that once triggered it doesn't come with an "off switch", and so they will indiscriminately grab "whatever's moving" once they get in that zone???

Should dogs like this be culled too ... or should they be treasured (and just kept away from kids)?

Jack

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[R2L]

Good thread,

In my opinion children shouldn't let be alone with any breed!! And if you look into the details of biting incidents, that's all you're going to learn from it.

[R2L]

http://caveat.blogware.com/blog/_archiv ... 05154.html (http://caveat.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/3/14/2805154.html)

[wrknapbt]

Good thread,

In my opinion children shouldn't let be alone with any breed!! And if you look into the details of biting incidents, that's all you're going to learn from it.


Beat me to it. I will not leave the room if a dog is out with my kids. Not because my dogs are mean to kids or evil but becuase kids are kids and cannot control a adult dog that kicks into drive over a toy or another animal. The was a baby killed in Maryland a few years ago by the family dashund.

[Officially Retired]

Exactly, all dogs are predators, not just pit bulls.

And the size of the dog in relation to the child has to be considered. A dachshund is a plucky little dog, and an infant is easy game for one, so who in their right mind would leave a predator alone with a squeaky little baby? People just don't think :shock:

Yet, to me, as much as I love the breed, the truth is that the level of their intensity is so much greater than another dog that (to my way of thinking) it is criminally-negligent to leave any pit dog alone with a child, until the child becomes a teenager.

Jack

.

[scary]

Not to sound like i'm stuck in the old days. But i was always taught from a young age that these
Dogs were not womans or childrens dogs. Once again not to be sexist.

[QCKLime]

Not to sound like i'm stuck in the old days. But i was always taught from a young age that these
Dogs were not womans or childrens dogs. Once again not to be sexist.

I know a lot of little girls, who handle pit bulls and other dangerous breeds, with much more talent and precision than 98% of the so-called "dogmen" I've witnessed. Just sayin'.

I wouldn't trust a child ALONE with any breed of dog, either. My house dog is fantastic with children, honestly, she loves them -- because she's a fatkid at heart, and babies always have food, and they always share ;) She'll crawl around on the floor with them, she'll cuddle with them, she'll lay her head in their lap and wait ohhh-soooo patiently for them to hand her a piece of food (or drop it), they can crawl on her, pull her ears and tail, stick their little fingers in her eyes, mouth, nose, whatever, and you just couldn't ASK for a BETTER dog with a baby or child.

And still, I would NEVER leave one alone with her.

Not that I think she would ever do anything intentionally to hurt a child, but there is just too much left up to chance. If she sees a cat or squirrel in the window, all of her common sense goes right through it, and she could easily run one over, get to barking and carrying on, upset the baby who could then start crying, and in that excited state, there's just no telling what could happen.

There's just no point.

[scary]

I understand that as well. But you said it best when you said SO CALLED DOG MAN. With all do respect i think you have a house dog. Now i have no ideal how it's breed. I'm not downing you dog at all i wish there was more like that. But i think there's a big difference in a battle dog abd a house dog or a battle dog that was turned into a per from the beginning. That's jmo. But what i am talking bout is ACTUALLY HANDLING A DOG IN THE HEAT OF... :?:

[scary]

I understand that as well. But you said it best when you said SO CALLED DOG MAN. With all do respect i think you have a house dog. Now i have no ideal how it's breed. I'm not downing you dog at all i wish there was more like that. But i think there's a big difference in a battle dog abd a house dog or a battle dog that was turned into a per from the beginning. That's jmo. But what i am talking bout is ACTUALLY HANDLING A DOG IN THE HEAT OF... :?:
Or tending to them not saying they can't but my hounds are rough.
I don't want my wjfe or daughter to tend tk them. I don't know about you alk but i like nt o lady soft :mrgreen:

[MinuteMan]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/367003.jpg

I think a lot of it is how they get raised. I mean "having a dog in the house" and having a dog exclusively as a house dog are two different things. I have never had a house dog I wouldnt trust around children. Even the geekd up ones seem to know that a kid is different. The dog above will go crazy when I flirt pole her, but:

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/404641.jpg

My daughter can take the hide right out of her mouth, all she has to do is ask. Good luck for me or you to get that hide from her! LOL

As you can tell, that dog is much older than my son, and I was quite worried about how she would act when he was born. Yet, she completely changed the day he came home from the hospital. she used to run around the house, would jump on you while you were on the couch. I mean she was a nut. now she tip toes around whenever the baby is out.

I wouldnt leave her ALONE with my son, but I dont leave my 2 pound poodle alone with him either. dogs will always be "dogs"...

[lilpitgirl]

Really the dogs respond better to me then the old man me being a women on the smaller side I dont handle dogs over 40 but I can put them all in shape ! now as far as kids go I wouldnt trust any dog with a small child , a chain dog that dont mean no harm can injury a child by just trippen them up then you never know how the dogs gonna react to a small child crying in there chain space

[Officially Retired]

I think a lot of it is how they get raised. I mean "having a dog in the house" and having a dog exclusively as a house dog are two different things. I have never had a house dog I wouldnt trust around children. Even the geekd up ones seem to know that a kid is different. The dog above will go crazy when I flirt pole her, but:
My daughter can take the hide right out of her mouth, all she has to do is ask. Good luck for me or you to get that hide from her! LOL


Certain dogs do seem to have a '6th sense' with kids.

Little Bootie, for example, was ever so gentle with kids--and when I gave her away after she stopped, the people I gave her to told me she would mother their infant. Heck they couldn't even scold the child in front of Bootie (LOL), as Bootie would groan/growl her disapproval :lol:

Now Bandana, would flat-out nail you (me, or anyone) if you waived a hide in front of her. She took me down a couple of times, and I have deep scars to this day on my calves, from "accidentally walking too close" to Bandana's chain spot with a flirt pole. Nothing 'mean' about what she was doing, but when she was geeked-up for a hide, just as with Red Sonja, the whole "moving world" was fair game!





As you can tell, that dog is much older than my son, and I was quite worried about how she would act when he was born. Yet, she completely changed the day he came home from the hospital. she used to run around the house, would jump on you while you were on the couch. I mean she was a nut. now she tip toes around whenever the baby is out.
I wouldnt leave her ALONE with my son, but I dont leave my 2 pound poodle alone with him either. dogs will always be "dogs"...

That is a sweet dog then. I would trust certain dogs with tiny baby like that (Bootie, for example, who was real mellow) ... but certain dogs make me recoil in horror just thinking about them next to a baby ... who suddenly started crying :shock:

Jack

.

[bolero]

very good posts my house dog is great with my nephew and always sits by him kisses him and plays with him and he to waits for food that the kid gives him, but like all said i am always there and no matter how good he is me not being around is just not gonna happen. these dogs are smart and kids do not look or smell like another animal they have a human scent and the dogs equate that. my cousin has three young kids with one extremely dog aggressive dog but loves those kids to death. they are great with kids but as was said i would never leave any breed alone with a kid

[Pistol]

I think a lot of it is how they get raised. I mean "having a dog in the house" and having a dog exclusively as a house dog are two different things. I have never had a house dog I wouldnt trust around children. Even the geekd up ones seem to know that a kid is different. The dog above will go crazy when I flirt pole her, but:

My daughter can take the hide right out of her mouth, all she has to do is ask. Good luck for me or you to get that hide from her! LOL

As you can tell, that dog is much older than my son, and I was quite worried about how she would act when he was born. Yet, she completely changed the day he came home from the hospital. she used to run around the house, would jump on you while you were on the couch. I mean she was a nut. now she tip toes around whenever the baby is out.

I wouldnt leave her ALONE with my son, but I dont leave my 2 pound poodle alone with him either. dogs will always be "dogs"...



Maybe you have had luck with your children around bulldogs, and thats just fine, but it's never a good idea. I have owned very human friendly animals that would kill a child if given the chance. Sure it may be because I have never raised my children around my dogs, but not a lot of dogmen do. I hate these kinds of threads because I always come out making the breed look like hell with my posts. When you are a dogman who consistanly competes we all know how fast dogs come and go, so Its much harder on a child when you allow them to build a personal attachemnt with an animal knowing that animal could turn out to be a cur. I know how it feels because I was that child once. I have been in the chain spots of dogs I had no business being around, but back then dogmen were a different breed of man. If you have time to train every single dog to be around humans and children then by all means do what works for you, but when you are a private kennel you do your best to keep anyone other that you around your animals. Dogs come and go when your a dogman, so for a child to decipher which chain space is okay to run into is going to be very difficult.

I hear all you guys saying that a HA animal should be shot, but HA and attacking a child are two different things. Real bulldogs have a serious prey drive, so a small human with hair, high pitched voice, moving very fast is going to be prey. Most pitbulls that get loose in the ghetto attack children over adults, doesn't always mean they are HA. Just know that the most friendly animal on your yard gets wild and retarded when it sees the hide or flirtpole, same can go for any tyoe of unusual toy you tease them with. A child running back & forth between chain spots is something they want to get their mouths on. Aside from the actual attack, your looking at scratches, cuts, etc. How many times have you walked into a chain spot to feed or change straw and almost have to crack your dog across his head for clawing you across the belly or nipping you in the face? It stings like hell, but they didn't do it on purpose. It takes a lot for me not to haul off and thump them, because I know they are just excited to see me, so imagine what they can do to a child. When I was a kid we had a dog that would hump anything at the drop of a hat. We use to get a kick out of tossing my younger brother into that dogs chainspot to see him get burled over and mounted. We would laugh our butts off, but he would be crying because that "child friendly dog" was digging his claws into his side and pounding for glory.

IMO children should not be around bulldogs, certain things set off these animals. Every real dogman know this. It's too bad I didn't get a chance to post on the human agression thread, I would have pissed a lot of you off. I won't shoot a bulldog that is human aggressive, as long as it's a bulldog. We will leave it at that.

[Earl Tudor]

It's too bad I didn't get a chance to post on the human agression thread, I would have pissed a lot of you off. I won't shoot a bulldog that is human aggressive, as long as it's a bulldog. We will leave it at that.
I assume you wouldn't try and make it house dog around your wife and kids either, as the other poster is attempting to do. :?

[Officially Retired]

It's too bad I didn't get a chance to post on the human agression thread, I would have pissed a lot of you off. I won't shoot a bulldog that is human aggressive, as long as it's a bulldog. We will leave it at that.
I assume you wouldn't try and make it house dog around your wife and kids either, as the other poster is attempting to do. :?


Exactly, this was already addressed.

Keeping a people-mean badass dog (like Zebo) on a chain out in the country, for matching purposes, is one thing.

Trying to make a house dog out of a dog like that (or like BullySon) is something else entirely.

Jack

[Earl Tudor]

I know most people think pit bulls should have "great temperaments," I certainly do, but how does this apply with children?

I personally have never felt it is an entirely good idea to have any bulldog alone with children, no matter how seemingly-sweet the dog is, especially with very small children. The fact is, all dogs are predators, and a pit bull is nothing but a highly-specialized predator designed to dispatch smaller animals and even be able to attack and control very large animals. And, while I do believe that the breed should be (and most often is) "people friendly" ... I am not sure this always spills over to children.

From a dog's point of view, children are small, squeaky, erratic creatures compared to adults. Where a bulldog looks "up" to an adult man or woman, it looks "down" on a very small, squeaky child. I believe sometimes it is very dangerous to leave any baby or toddler alone with a bulldog, especially if the bulldog was not used to a baby in the house ... and suddenly one day a new child is brought into the house. Lots of utterly clueless new parents have discovered to their horror what can happen in these instances.

And, even in a case where a seemingly sweet dog that's "good with kids" is enjoyed by a family ... what if one day A CAT is at the window, and the dog goes apeshit after the cat, and a little boy or girl tries to grab the now-geeked-up bulldog? What happens then? :shock:

Hell, I have been bit by my own dogs in the corner a time or two, dogs that were normally friendly, but who (now that they're geeked-up and wanting to scratch back) will do "whatever it takes" to be released and go back into an opponent. Red Sonja (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=1043) in particular comes to mind. Here was a bitch who was as sweet as a dog could be to people. Loved children and would snuggle up to them. But, if Red Sonja ever made contact with another animal, or got geeked-up over a flirt pole or hide, "the whole moving world" became fair game: your hands, your legs, a rake, whatever was a'movin' she was a'grabbin' :twisted: Red Sonja would even grab the pit wall or carpet when she was geeked-up in the corner and would have to be pried-off with a stick. Her eyes would get big and round, like she was in some kind of euphoric trance once she was "on," and I sure as hell would hate to see what she might do to a little boy or girl who tried to "play ball" with her :shock: And yet there was not a drop of "meanness" in what she was doing: she was happy as hell.

So, as an offshoot of the "human aggressive" pit bull, the man-killer, what about the normally-sweet dog that loses all ability to reason once it's "on"? I know A LOT of pit dogs are like this, sweet under every "normal" instance, and yet wildly-intense once they're "on," so is it really such a good idea to leave these dogs alone with kids? Because, again, I can think of a lot of dogs, that aren't true man-killers ... that even LOVE children under controlled conditions ... that I would still never leave alone with any child, never in a million years, because IF they get "geeked-up" ... then they are as dangerous to a child as any mankiller, without actually being a mean dog.

How do you judge a dog like that, whose natural temperament is to be sweet and calm, but whose "combat intensity" is so great, that once triggered it doesn't come with an "off switch", and so they will indiscriminately grab "whatever's moving" once they get in that zone???

Should dogs like this be culled too ... or should they be treasured (and just kept away from kids)?

Jack

.
While I agree with most of your points, I do think there is a difference in a yard dog and one that has been raised in the house in the family environment, not saying all can be raised that way though. But doesn't your preface above dissent from this one?


Talented dogs that can discriminate friend from foe are the almost invariably the best dogs IMO. So, again, it has always seemed to me that, almost invariably, the very best dogs (not common, ordinary dogs) always know the difference between when to go to work and when to have fun, and I have observed this same truth on my yard also. All of my "fight crazy" dogs have never been my very best, most intelligent, most talented dogs.

[bluebeard]

small kids should not be around bulldogs unattended( house dog or not). i had rather be safe than sorry :!:

[Officially Retired]

While I agree with most of your points, I do think there is a difference in a yard dog and one that has been raised in the house in the family environment, not saying all can be raised that way though. But doesn't your preface above dissent from this one?


I don't think so.

Being a loving dog under controlled situations is one thing. But any bulldog (that has true "contact experience" and is fully-started) can get into a "geeked-up" state under the right circumstances. This is precisely the reason I personally would never leave any combat dog alone with a child, for even if the dog normally loved the child and was trustworthy by nature, in certain special circumstances I believe that the dog could be triggered into a "geeked-up" state (a cat at the window, etc.), where its normal judgment and discrimination go out the window.

In the end, no matter how well-bred and well-socialized, we're talking about DOGS here ... predators that have been highly-specialized for combat through selective breeding.

However, Pistol mentioned "prey drive" but prey drive is NOT the same thing as gameness. I have seen dogs with incredible prey drive that were not game, and I have seen some pretty mellow old dogs (who wouldn't even chase a hide), but who (once attacked and motivated into action) proved themselves deeply game indeed.

I suppose a truly mellow, calm game dog (withOUT a high prey drive) would make for the most trustworthy dogs around children.

Jack

[Earl Tudor]

[quote="Earl Tudor":a6lzj9sx]
While I agree with most of your points, I do think there is a difference in a yard dog and one that has been raised in the house in the family environment, not saying all can be raised that way though. But doesn't your preface above dissent from this one?


I don't think so.

Being a loving dog under controlled situations is one thing. But any bulldog (that has true "contact experience" and is fully-started) can get into a "geeked-up" state under the right circumstances. This is precisely the reason I personally would never leave any combat dog alone with a child, for even if the dog normally loved the child and was trustworthy by nature, in certain special circumstances I believe that the dog could be triggered into a "geeked-up" state (a cat at the window, etc.), where its normal judgment and discrimination go out the window.

In the end, no matter how well-bred and well-socialized, we're talking about DOGS here ... predators that have been highly-specialized for combat through selective breeding.

However, Pistol mentioned "prey drive" but prey drive is NOT the same thing as gameness. I have seen dogs with incredible prey drive that were not game, and I have seen some pretty mellow old dogs (who wouldn't even chase a hide), but who (once attacked and motivated into action) proved themselves deeply game indeed.

I suppose a truly mellow, calm game dog (withOUT a high prey drive) would make for the most trustworthy dogs around children.

Jack[/quote:a6lzj9sx]
Just for clarification, I was speaking on intelligence, the ones that know the difference from "friend from foe", would also seem to be able to decipher that distinction when it relates to a child, or getting geeked up from seeing a cat in window etc. How can a dogs like Silverback, Little D, Dirty Hammer, all be together in the house and not crank up, but couldn't be trusted around a child? I'm actually not arguing with you, just thinking you may not be giving them enough credit for being able to do the same with a child :D You don't have children, maybe that's why, but I and agree in the" better safe than sorry" model. I have one "game dog" (female, which I think makes a difference, maternal instincts), in the house that I truly trust with my 5, 8, and 15 year old, as well as my nieces, however, she isn't just any ol dog, and is truly one of those "most intelligent dogs" that you speak of. ;)

[Officially Retired]

Just for clarification, I was speaking on intelligence, the ones that know the difference from "friend from foe", would also seem to be able to decipher that distinction when it relates to a child, or getting geeked up from seeing a cat in window etc.

Actually, Earl, I think you bringing up this distinction is worthy of a whole discussion and effort to clarify the issues here, namely the distinction between intelligence and prey drive, as well as the distinction between prey drive and gameness.

All, some, or none of these traits may (or may not) be found in individual dogs. You could also complicate this further by distinguishing dogs that naturally like people versus dogs that naturally dislike people.

An example of a dog with no intelligence, no prey drive, and no gameness (but that likes people) may be a lazy old bassett hound ... who just lays there at his master's feet ... and who essentially does nothing is probably safe around children.

An example of a polar opposite dog would be a people-mean, battle-tested bulldog, with a prey drive out of this world, and a devious nature ... would be a highly-volatile, dangerous dog that would be terrible around children.




How can a dogs like Silverback, Little D, Dirty Hammer, all be together in the house and not crank up, but couldn't be trusted around a child? :D

Honestly, I wouldn't trust these dogs to be alone together either. (Keep in mind that I left Silverback and Jezebel alone, for no more than 5 min, and Jezebel fired-up at another bitch in a crate, and had no outlet but Silverback and so grabbed him (who she normally liked), and he responded by DOAing her before I got back inside. Although Silverback's intelligence is great, and while his basic temperament with people is also great (even with perceived "friendly" dogs), the fact is his prey drive is through the roof, and he won't take being grabbed or growled at, which makes him kind of volatile if he gets geeked-up.

Another example was a friend of mine had his two bulldogs together as "friends"---a momma and her own male puppy. Eventually the puppy grew up, and yet they all got along together perfectly for about 18 months. Both dogs were sweet and loving with each other and with people. One day the mama found a rat, and grabbed it ... and then her son tried to grab it ... and (well) you guessed it, suddenly there was World War III in the backyard, with two dogs that had previously loved each other and were mother-and-son.

In the end, they're just dogs, COMBAT dogs, and you never really know what might trigger a "geeked-up" response, which is why I recommend controlled supervision. If that was a child that tried to take away "the kill" ... it could have been ugly.




I'm actually not arguing with you, just thinking you may not be giving them enough credit for being able to do the same with a child You don't have children, maybe that's why, but I and agree in the" better safe than sorry" model.

I don't have children, true, but I do know how dogs "think" ... and, with the unfortunate benefit of a lot of hindsight, I can see where I (and others) made terrible mistakes in judgment in the past, by giving dogs too much benefit of the doubt, and forgetting that (in the end) they ARE "just dogs"--and combat dogs at that. I think that is why we both agree on the "better safe than sorry" model at this point in our careers ;)




I have one "game dog" (female, which I think makes a difference, maternal instincts), in the house that I truly trust with my 5, 8, and 15 year old, as well as my nieces, however, she isn't just any ol dog, and is truly one of those "most intelligent dogs" that you speak of. ;)

I have had bitches that were good mothers, and were highly-intelligent, but that were NOT good with kids ... because their prey drive, when geeked-up, was out of this world (Bandana / Red Sonja). I have had other bitches, that were just as good a bitches in the [], and good mothers also, but who were great with kids because they had lazy, mellow temperaments and never got riled-up (Rosey / Sassy). They were big ol' lazy cows that were calm and stable, rather than the geeked-up type.

Therefore, I would be willing to bet that, not only is your bitch sweet and intelligent, but she also has a very mellow, lowkey disposition, with a minimal prey drive (again, not to be confused with gameness).

Jack

[Earl Tudor]

Therefore, I would be willing to bet that, not only is your bitch sweet and intelligent, but she also has a very mellow, lowkey disposition, with a minimal prey drive (again, not to be confused with gameness).

Jack
I would agree she is low key, and now old to boot :lol: . And I must admit she is the only dog ever, that has been allowed to be around my children unsupervised. She's one of those rare great ones in her one regard, like an elite GR CH. :D My daughters love the dogs (well the puppies) and even those are to rambunctious for them to be left alone and unattended to, let alone the grown yard dogs. 8-)

[relentless]

This is how I got started in the dogs. http://heustess.com/episodes/thepooch.mp4 After watching The Lil Rascals I wanted a pitbull. Didn't know what else they were used for til later in life. I'm so glad I knew the other side 1st.

[relentless]

I really like this 1 too. http://heustess.com/episodes/pupsispups.mp4

[Runner]

I have 1 bulldog at home, she's very kind with everyone and love human touch. I have a newborn now, and she's always inside the house but i try to never ever leeave my 1 month baby alone. She seems fine to him, no sign of aggressiveness at all but you may never know. I trust her, but always 99% not 100...

[TFX]

Folks, I think it all comes down to the individual dog, and to some extent the line of dogs. I have had dogs in my little family that are a bit too keyed up to be alone with my kids. The vast majority however, have been and are very gentle dogs. When my daughter was about 3, she spent lots of time in the whelping box with an old veteran of the pit and her get, but not totally unsupervised. I think it is a very desirable quality in a bulldog, just as I do a game dog who will play with puppies. Really what we are talking about here is nothing more than INTELLIGENCE.

The other side of the coin is that the kid needs to learn to be confident in the way they deal with the dogs. That is a tremendous confidence builder in the young person, and this association is part of a healthy, normal upbringing. We have all heard the adage "a boy and his dog". It didn't come from some psycho freak that fought everything that moved. I am not saying that type of dog should be altogether avoided for sporting purposes alone, but show me a well rounded dog that has equal talent and ability as the freak, and I will show you a dog that is more useful and enjoyable to own, and will likely stamp his or her offspring with those same desireable qualities in greater percentages.

[relentless]

With all the contravorsey about this breed here is a lil something that might make 1 feel a lil different. http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/pit-bu ... ods-020312 (http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/pit-bull-protects-toddler-lost-in-woods-020312)

[Steeldog]

With all the contravorsey about this breed here is a lil something that might make 1 feel a lil different. http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/pit-bu ... ods-020312 (http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/pit-bull-protects-toddler-lost-in-woods-020312)

That's a cool news story. Should throw that on at McDonald's.

[Ipk]

I have some great dogs that are great with my children. Poncha being my favorite one around the kids.(she is one of those dogs who realize kids are more delicate.) But even still if I leave the room or house so does she. I personally feel young kids and dogs should not be left alone together.

[Chuy]

I have a picture that I would really like to share. I know this might seem like a crazy question, but can someone PLEASE tell me how to post a picture as I'am still new to this site, Thanks. ;)

[QCKLime]

I have a picture that I would really like to share. I know this might seem like a crazy question, but can someone PLEASE tell me how to post a picture as I'am still new to this site, Thanks. ;)

If you have it saved onto your computer already, there's an option in your response box (you'll have to use the "full editor" if you're hitting "quick reply" now) to "upload photo." Just click it, choose your photo and upload! Another option is to upload it to a site like photobucket and use the "image code" link to copy and paste the picture into your response box. Jack has it set up so that uploading all sorts of things like that are super easy.

I have a video of a bitch I got from EVO meeting my niece for the first time -- it was my niece's first encounter with a pit bull, or any large dog for that matter, and Maybe's first time EVER being around a child of any age. I'll have to upload it to youtube and post it. My niece was immediately enamored with her, and Maybe was pure, sweet perfection to her, whereas she is normally a VERY rambunctious and high strung dog, around my niece, she was incredibly gentle. Better with her than she was with her own puppies, even.

Every bulldog I've ever had around children seemed to have a "sixth sense" about babies and kids, and have always been great with them. I still wouldn't CHOOSE to leave them alone together, but that's simply a matter of responsibility on MY part. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a child alone, period, much less with ANY animal. Bird, cat, baby panda, wtf ever. Not because any of my dogs have ever given me reason to doubt their reliability with people or children, it's just not something you do, IMO.

Here are some of my housedog with my baby step sister - she's eight, and LOVES Duckee. She draws pictures of her at school, and tells everyone that "pit bulls are the best dogs, and anyone who doesn't think so is just dumb." I can't say I would argue with her :)

http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/queenandcrescent/emduck.jpg
http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/queenandcrescent/emduck1.jpg
http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u364/queenandcrescent/emduck2.jpg

[Chuy]

Thank you QCKLime

[Chuy]

I saw a few comments on cat's and squierrl's being at the wndow, thought I would share...

[gilamonster]

Folks, I think it all comes down to the individual dog, and to some extent the line of dogs. I have had dogs in my little family that are a bit too keyed up to be alone with my kids. The vast majority however, have been and are very gentle dogs. When my daughter was about 3, she spent lots of time in the whelping box with an old veteran of the pit and her get, but not totally unsupervised. I think it is a very desirable quality in a bulldog, just as I do a game dog who will play with puppies. Really what we are talking about here is nothing more than INTELLIGENCE.

The other side of the coin is that the kid needs to learn to be confident in the way they deal with the dogs. That is a tremendous confidence builder in the young person, and this association is part of a healthy, normal upbringing. We have all heard the adage "a boy and his dog". It didn't come from some psycho freak that fought everything that moved. I am not saying that type of dog should be altogether avoided for sporting purposes alone, but show me a well rounded dog that has equal talent and ability as the freak, and I will show you a dog that is more useful and enjoyable to own, and will likely stamp his or her offspring with those same desireable qualities in greater percentages.

This post hit the nail on the head( EVERY Dog is an individual). Not saying that anyone was wrong in their way of thinking either. I agree with all of the post in some little way. Everyone of them have vallid points. I think many different factors are at hand here. From the intense drive of one.To the never properly socialized, invironmentaly ect... To chilldren who are to young or have never been properly raised around bulldogs(dogs). INTELLIGENCE of dog and owner.lol, Along with dog knowledge and proper training of child and dog is just one of the key factor on this thing. Is it possible? Absolutly! Is it something everyone should do or can? I personaly don't think so. It takes TREMENDOUS dog knowlede to accomplish and have one of these types of dogs. Great with kids/animals/people who you would trust your own life with if excpected to, and who would give his life for his owner. It takes MANY years and luck to say you have one of this caliber. If you are even lucky enough to have one like this in your entire life time. This also comes down to selective breeding by the breeder of said dog. Good topic I'm really digging this forum. Not @ss kissing just stating.lol. You can tell by the thought out responses of all posters not to mention wisdom of some of you guys. :D

[Officially Retired]

Good post & glad you like the forum :)

[No Quarter Kennel]

Common sense. Dog is a predator and with our illustrious breed, we must apply the old, "If it CAN HAPPEN....then...."

I heard someone ask Gary Hammonds once about his dog yard and his kids. Would he let them feed them and so forth alone. His reply was classic. "Of course not. I don't let them play in the street either."

[southend]

I have 2 young kid 4 and 1 years old my CH RUBY 3XW 1XGL2hrs was our house dog she had human like intelligance i guess that counter acted her high prey drive which resulted in a calm house dog ,she could be walked off the lead past dogs she never met before ,she was the perfect all round dog ,tried a few in the house sence cancer took her ,and they did,nt come close so the got but out on chains its hard to find the BALANCE which i think is the key to a good house dog,idont know if any of you guys agree but ive heard of it more in bitches than dog

[Nash]

The worst thing i have read in this thread is a kid with food close to a dog. I always give the prime example of a kid with a sandwich, the dog wanting it and the kid reacting towards the dog, dog reacts to kid, close book.
Dont like begging for food dogs anyway, so their always kept in distance of people with food. Might have a dog at the kitchen step to get the cut offs, but dinner time is piss off !

[MissAnthrope]

IME, the kids are the ones that you have to watch around the dogs. A dog is just doing what is natural for him to do. If a kid is pulling, poking, squeeling in the dogs face, yea, I would bite him/her too! There is only so much a dog can take.. (only so much an adult can take!!) I have a "pet bull" in the house that does pretty good with kids, and has never nipped anyone, although my son has gotten into a lot of trouble over being mean to the dog. My son has been nipped by Cane Corso a couple times, and it was in no way the dogs fault. My son is all boy and 2, and spends a lot of time in time-out, or getting his butt swatted. Kids are rough, and mean sometimes, and dogs are dogs. I personally would never have a real pit bull in the house with the kids. Just not worth it.

[MissAnthrope]

It all boils down to owner responsibility.. and the responsibility of being a parent... I cant watch my kids every move every minute of the day, and not a big fan of having multiple baby gates put up around the house to separate dogs from kids(I tried this with the Cane Corso) so the dogs go outside.. lol

[postmandan]

i guess it all depends on your situation. I got my first buldog when i was 14. i grew up with dads dogs and did all the yard work. now as far as me personally i will not allow children around my dogs. they are just animals and ya never know anything 100%. Not even with a human. Postmandan

[Officially Retired]

Not even with a human. Postmandan

That's a whole other subject too, isn't it?

Trusting kids with so-called human beings ... there are not alot of people I would trust with my kids if I had them.

Smiling faces aren't always friendly ...

[TopShelfKennels]

My daughters spending quality time the with dogs. I can honestly say I trust my dogs more than people, I do also believe no child should be left with a dog unattended. JMO

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/purepit19/abaf32f2.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/purepit19/d7653711.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/purepit19/5a21fb2c.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/purepit19/a0536000.jpg

[Officially Retired]

Nice photos. You can see in their eyes and body language that those dogs are being extra mellow with the children :idea:

[AGK]

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/MsThaliaMarie020-1_zps5e377a22.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/261638_1701908078789_1570586830_31247556_4717177_n _zps835cfbcf.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/261348_1772755129921_1570586830_31298627_1816534_n _zpsd83c9160.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/58023_1451316294151_1570586830_30898244_2659631_n-1_zps177bd8ae.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/20761_1162212906747_1570586830_30351594_587236_n_z psbb4ea4eb.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/032-5_zpsce0e0251.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/001-8.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/1353470203641-1.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/070112123002.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/9584_4340185554077_909161981_n_zps7f0cf52d.jpg

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/295573_4216925632656_685903423_n_zps9ccc65e5.jpg

I could go on and on with this one...lol both my kids, 15 and 8, have been raised around working dogs their whole lives. Socialization is the biggest factor when kids are involved. Both dogs and children have to be taught how to behave around each other... Dogs are individuals just like people. Some love kids, some tolerate kids and some do not do so well around kids. I'm my expierence, ones raised around kids tend to be more accepting of them.

[Eliman]

Great post

I have 3 yound children who spoke there first word and took there first step with a bulldog beside them. I will not own a human aggresive hound i don't knock others for doing so whatever floats your boat. My chain area is fenced off from the family's yard and my children know they are not to go in there without my consent. Even a friendly bulldog that just wants to play can seriously injure or kill a small child with its chain. There is nothing wrong with involving your children with these hounds but pls set measures in place even if you don't have children take steps to prevent the unthinkable. There is no hound worth a childs life no amount of money is to much to ensure a childs safety.

RoughNeck

[EWO]

Great topic. I too raised my son with the dogs and made the choice he was never alone with him. Some would have more than likely been fine and with some of the high strung dogs it would have been a nightmare waiting to happen. So when he was small he only interacted with the puppies and young dogs. Once a dog started up or acted like he was ready to start I didn't let the two interact. My best guess is all would have been fine but it was a gamble I could not take. We had a dog once that made Ch. and he was as friendly a dog as any out there. An absolute easy keeper, never had any inclination he was a bulldog except for when he saw the box. Then he was a complete nut job. Plain stupid fight crazy. We had him in the box one day weighing him, getting ready to feed him. He was all jacked up. I dropped some screws on the floor and went down on all fours to pick them up. He turned around from whatever had his attention. Although I am 6'4" and 275lbs. and should be an imposing figure to a 45lb. dog all he saw was something across the pit on all fours. He scratched. If my partner hadn't been here I would have been curred out, and since he didn't make it all the way I can say I was picked up game. LOL.
But anyway, if that had been a child with a geeked up dog it could have been really bad.

[Officially Retired]

Great pics AGK :)

[evolutionkennels]

Great post

I have 3 yound children who spoke there first word and took there first step with a bulldog beside them. I will not own a human aggresive hound i don't knock others for doing so whatever floats your boat. My chain area is fenced off from the family's yard and my children know they are not to go in there without my consent. Even a friendly bulldog that just wants to play can seriously injure or kill a small child with its chain. There is nothing wrong with involving your children with these hounds but pls set measures in place even if you don't have children take steps to prevent the unthinkable. There is no hound worth a childs life no amount of money is to much to ensure a childs safety.

RoughNeck


Very good post. Thats why I like this forum, intelligent, monitored, good dogmen.

[AGK]

Very good post. Thats why I like this forum, intelligent, monitored, good dogmen.

That was a great post. Very well spoken and 100% the truth.

[EWO]

Ditto that. I enjoy the exchanges as much as any. EWO




Very good post. Thats why I like this forum, intelligent, monitored, good dogmen.

[Eliman]

Now even being a responsible dog owner can only cover your end to a point when it comes to children i belive Murphy's Law was based on them "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". There was a little boy who lived near my house who played with my kids this boy was Dennis The Menace in the flesh. Cruel to animals beat them teased my hounds throwing rocks i ran him off and talked with his Grandpa he was not allowed here again. But none the less i was working in the yard and the dogs barking caught my attention. I looked towards the yard i see him crying sitting in the chain spot of a high strung yearling my stomach dropped. I took off towards him and noticed the chain wrapped around his legs so i slow to a tip toe so she wouldn't become excited and hurt him any further. She responded slow and gentle when approaching me i was still terrified i untangled him and ran him home. I set him down his Grandpa and i checked him for injuries not a scratch shook up but not so much as a bruise. What he did have was shit on his hair in his ears on his face im talking head to toe :lol:. I belive he learned his lesson that day and taught me one as well never under estimate the blind curiosity of a child.

RoughNeck

[EWO]

I am not a dog bite expert by any means but I do believe the majority of the time a lot of the blame belongs to the one being bit. But I do understand that is nothing to hang one's hat on when the bite actually occurs. We have a deep family divide right now over a dog bite from a fox hound. My brother-in-laws grandchild is a holy terror. He was walking the farm with his grandma at a family gathering. I bet he hit ten dogs with a stick. Grandma offers no correction. Mom offers no correction. Later that day he hems one up against the barn and draws the stick back and the Grandma picks him up but the dog snags her on the way. All family hell breaks loose. Barely broke the skin but it was a dog bite nonetheless. The dog was immediately to blame. I didn't see it that way and made the horrible mistake of saying 'sometimes you get what you ask for'. I know this is an isolated incident and not exactly on bulldog topic, but my point would be, - Just imagine how bad it gets if this fox hound was a bulldog? The situation gets amplified ten fold based on media sensationalism. As bad as it sounds I was glad it happened at his house instead of mine.
But, regardless of how it happens or why it happens when a dog bite happens it is the usually the fault of the 'dog'. Add in the term pitbull dog and it can get off the charts in a quick minute. The care and caution is warranted with all dogs, especially the little ones, but I think when it involves these dogs the caution has to be amped up as equal to the reaction/sensationalism that results in the end. EWO

[Black Hand]

I am not a dog bite expert by any means but I do believe the majority of the time a lot of the blame belongs to the one being bit. But I do understand that is nothing to hang one's hat on when the bite actually occurs. We have a deep family divide right now over a dog bite from a fox hound. My brother-in-laws grandchild is a holy terror. He was walking the farm with his grandma at a family gathering. I bet he hit ten dogs with a stick. Grandma offers no correction. Mom offers no correction. Later that day he hems one up against the barn and draws the stick back and the Grandma picks him up but the dog snags her on the way. All family hell breaks loose. Barely broke the skin but it was a dog bite nonetheless. The dog was immediately to blame. I didn't see it that way and made the horrible mistake of saying 'sometimes you get what you ask for'. I know this is an isolated incident and not exactly on bulldog topic, but my point would be, - Just imagine how bad it gets if this fox hound was a bulldog? The situation gets amplified ten fold based on media sensationalism. As bad as it sounds I was glad it happened at his house instead of mine.
But, regardless of how it happens or why it happens when a dog bite happens it is the usually the fault of the 'dog'. Add in the term pitbull dog and it can get off the charts in a quick minute. The care and caution is warranted with all dogs, especially the little ones, but I think when it involves these dogs the caution has to be amped up as equal to the reaction/sensationalism that results in the end. EWO

I don't know if the situation would be amplified ten fold because of the media more so over the difference in destruction between a fox hound and a bulldog. Had it been a bulldog, that childs life would probably never be the same. There is a lot of dead space between a fox hound barely breaking the skin in a cur snap out of fear and a bulldog about to take hold on a little boy with a stick. That's not really sensationalism. These dogs are capable of way more destruction in a lot less time. A few seconds can have the rest of your life full of regrets and it wont matter who was at fault. General rule here is kids only play with the house dog and pups. Children, like dogs lack the ability of reasoning. I know when I was a little boy I didn't have the ability to foresee myself being a 50 year old man with a prosthetic arm because of something I did when I was 5 yrs old. That's the separation between juvenile and adult and in a case with a child and a dog the adult has to be the one to blame and ultimately responsible for both his child and dogs actions.

[Officially Retired]

I don't know if the situation would be amplified ten fold because of the media more so over the difference in destruction between a fox hound and a bulldog. Had it been a bulldog, that childs life would probably never be the same. There is a lot of dead space between a fox hound barely breaking the skin in a cur snap out of fear and a bulldog about to take hold on a little boy with a stick. That's not really sensationalism. These dogs are capable of way more destruction in a lot less time. A few seconds can have the rest of your life full of regrets and it wont matter who was at fault. General rule here is kids only play with the house dog and pups. Children, like dogs lack the ability of reasoning. I know when I was a little boy I didn't have the ability to foresee myself being a 50 year old man with a prosthetic arm because of something I did when I was 5 yrs old. That's the separation between juvenile and adult and in a case with a child and a dog the adult has to be the one to blame and ultimately responsible for both his child and dogs actions.

This is a great post.

I love pit bulls as much as anyone, but they simply ARE potentially a thousand times more dangerous than other dogs. Especially geeked-up chain-brain dogs with no socialization. All anyone has to do is put a pit bull in the pit with a collie and it is clear who is the more dangerous animal. You can't beat pit bulls off, and (once riled-up) they don't take prisoners. There is more than just "sensationalism" going on, the FACT is pit bulls can be potentially catastrophic with children.

And, as someone who was an insurance claims adjuster for 12 years, dog bite attacks are 100% owner negligence, always, unless (with kids) they also tag on a negligent supervision guilt on the parents.

The only exception is provoked attacks, but you need proof for that (witnesses / video, etc.) to have a snowball's chance of beating a rap if you own a bulldog ...

Word :idea:

[tensteps]

I personally believe that supervision is a must with bulldogs and children, or any dogs for that matter if you are going to let them interact. My three year old bitch is a very placid dog indeed and my godson can be around her no problems but i still keep a watchful eye on them because all it takes is a dog to walk past the fence or window for the dog to get jacked up and you never know, you can't be too careful and we all know who comes out worse if an accident was to happen.
Heres a pick of the two together
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l565/tensteps1/Image0068.jpg

[EWO]

I agree wholeheartedly that the owner of the dog has to be ultimately responsible for both the child and the dog. My child was only allowed to play with puppies and very young dogs. Once they showed an interest or got a chain bump they were off limits to him. My dogs are chained and the 'yard' is fenced in with a locked gate. I agree with the types of dogs and the potential of damages in a short time. If a fox dog bites someone and animal control comes out it is one thing. If a pit bull bites someone, the damages are the same, and animal control comes out which one makes the news first? My point was not to make light of a situation where a dog bites a child. My point was that the precautions and preventatives should be equal to that or more of the end consequences. His fox dogs are in a pen and a couple are chained out. There are m any scenarios where a child could have access to that chained fox hound. My dogs are on chains. The area is fenced in with a pad locked gate. The path to the dogs has a gate that is pad locked. The extent of prevention I take is because I know the extent of damage that can be done in a quick minute but I also know if a pit bull is involved the ramifications multiply at a faster rate media wise than a foxhound. That was the point.





I don't know if the situation would be amplified ten fold because of the media more so over the difference in destruction between a fox hound and a bulldog. Had it been a bulldog, that childs life would probably never be the same. There is a lot of dead space between a fox hound barely breaking the skin in a cur snap out of fear and a bulldog about to take hold on a little boy with a stick. That's not really sensationalism. These dogs are capable of way more destruction in a lot less time. A few seconds can have the rest of your life full of regrets and it wont matter who was at fault. General rule here is kids only play with the house dog and pups. Children, like dogs lack the ability of reasoning. I know when I was a little boy I didn't have the ability to foresee myself being a 50 year old man with a prosthetic arm because of something I did when I was 5 yrs old. That's the separation between juvenile and adult and in a case with a child and a dog the adult has to be the one to blame and ultimately responsible for both his child and dogs actions.

[ToTheDogs]

It's interesting that you mentioned "Red Sonja", a Coca-Cola daughter, because "Blaze" was the same way. If he got zoned in on to an animal, hide, flirt, etc. WATCH OUT! Even with ZERO teeth, all gums, he hit me in the thigh and left a giant bruise instantly. He didn't even take a full hold, he bit and let go.

We don't want to beat a dead horse, but the point Eliman stated, "Murphy's Law". Now, when it comes to our dogs and our children, this is our take on it. Children do weird things to animals; poke, pull, pinch, push, hit, kick, hug, tackle, kiss, wrestle, ride, etc. Now, it's obvious that the matter should be handled on a dog by dog basis, not as a whole. That said, we have only owned one dog in the 17 years we've owned this breed, I feel completely 100% comfortable with around our children. She is currently our house dog. You could do about anything to that dog and she refuses to flinch. She has had children to it all to her, including a curious two year old who decided she would "finger" her innocent butt hole. She has NEVER growled, hair stood up on her back, cur snapped or anything in the 9 years we've owned her.

[AGK]

Had a couple new ones to share:

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/0409131918-1_zps5348c5b8.jpg (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/american_gamedog/media/0409131918-1_zps5348c5b8.jpg.html)

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/0410131814_zpse9ac4d88.jpg (http://s494.photobucket.com/user/american_gamedog/media/0410131814_zpse9ac4d88.jpg.html)

I like this topic, it's always been one of my favorites regardless of what forum I'm on. Lot of good insight from plenty of people well versed in these dogs. I have always felt you get out what you put in and thats with anything in life. Knowing my kids will be around the dogs only makes me that much more motivated to ensure they are all properly socialized with each other, The majority of my dogs have been raised here from birth or close to it. I trust my dogs enough to be around my children when they are in the house or they wouldn't be in the house or anywhere near my kids, on the chain though, I have to be present and the dogs are locked away from anyone who would be in my yard whether child or adult, just to ensure no wanderers find their way into a chain spot. Most dogs I have owned do not act the same when on the chain compared to in the home. On the chain they tend to be a whole lot more wide open where as in the house they seem to mellow right down. I think it comes down to knowing what you have. My kids are a big help here, they help walk, feed, clean, bathe, whelp and even heal from the time the dogs are born till they leave here or die here so the kids are just another master to them in their eyes. The reality here is the Females attach to me but will still be attentive to my daughter or son, more so than they are to me when the kids are around, ( with the exception of my Lil Miss Geach, that bitch worships me and only me) but the males ALL attach themselves to my daughter. They end up becoming so protective of her that I never trust them out when she has friends here. One wrong reach or horseplay could trigger a protective action in the males therefore I don't set the dogs up to fail by ignoring that little truth... Thats is what I meant by knowing what you got...

[AGK]

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/american_gamedog/0525132027a_zps9da0d64d.jpg

One kid, 2 bulldogs. Thats the future here!

[EWO]

Nice pics. Great interaction between the dogs and the kids. Nice. EWO

[AGK]

Nice pics. Great interaction between the dogs and the kids. Nice. EWO

Thanks EWO, Their a big help, it's like free yard hands lmao. They enjoy it so I encourage it.. ;)

[EWO]

Without a doubt. Take advantage now. My son is now 17 and he has so much more on his 'to do list', like most 17 year olds, his list and my list are two different things. LOL. EWO

[Black Hand]

Anyone feel a difference between keeping a male VS a female in the home? I personally always choose a female over a male. Any time I have ever been bitten or witnessed aggression within the home or someone else's home it has always been if not 100% then 99% of the time, been a male. I've had protective females towards strangers but never malicious towards members of the home. Anyone else?

[AGK]

Anyone feel a difference between keeping a male VS a female in the home? I personally always choose a female over a male. Any time I have ever been bitten or witnessed aggression within the home or someone else's home it has always been if not 100% then 99% of the time, been a male. I've had protective females towards strangers but never malicious towards members of the home. Anyone else?

This depends on many variables IMO but females tend to be less high strung and often are more laid back making them the better choice for a house dog. That's not to say males cant be great in the house too because I have had my fair share of good males that were in the house too but the girls have always been much easier to have in the home. I believe (and have seen it with every dog I've ever owned) females attach to the male of the house and males tend to attach to the female in the home. With Kids, females being typically less hyped all the time and more nurturing by nature , IMO, make the better choice when it comes to living in the home with children. This is a generalization of course and will very dog to dog.

[Black Hand]

I suppose the blood plays a major roll in how the dogs act as I'm sure some ppl have females that are just an animal hell bent on destruction even in the home. But my experience with my own is that the females are just much more dynamic. They can be outside on the yard and be a dog n wild as hell but come in the house and be as docile as ever. We joke that the males are dumbasses but they are not dumb but just not as attentive and are GO GO GO and just wild animals all the time, hard headed. Age plays a big role with them and not so much the females. I've never been bitten by a female though, of any breed. Always young males.

[Steeldog]

I have an Eli male that's a house dog. He's been all go since a pup. Was kinda worried about attempting to make him a house dog instead of a yard dog at first. He's house broken and knows he can chew his bones and nothing else. He can be wild and hard headed in the home. At least 20-45 minutes of exercise a day curbs that and makes him calm. Sometimes exercise twice a day. The more the better. Its important for me to read when he needs to unwind his energy. I don't mind it. We walk/jog together a lot and it keeps me in shape too. He's still young and I'm hoping as he matures he grows out of it somewhat. He's supervised around the kids 100 percent. He's calmer around them. But when I get home from work he gets all crazy because he knows its time to work and release all the energy. Never had a problem with him biting or challenging authority.

[FrostyPaws]

Out of all the dogs I've owned, I've had a 2 to 1 ratio of females being more stranger aggressive than males. The female in the house now, same as the last one, and a few others, would all just as soon jump on a stranger as opposed to look at them. I'm ok with that living in the middle of nowhere with a wife.

That being said, we don't have kids. If we had kids, I'd have to think long and hard about allowing one of these dogs in the house with them.

[AGK]

Went through this thread and realized all my links were broken and I'm bumping it back up. ;)

This is one of my favorite threads and would love to keep it going. Most of these pictures were already posted here but I organized my albums a few months ago and it broke all my links. So here they are again damn it...lol

This first picture is my first dog with my first born who is now 16

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[skipper]

You got some lucky kids. Nice pictures

[Officially Retired]

Lucky dogs too :)

[skipper]

True :)

[S_B]

While I used to be of the opinion that these dogs were the best "all" around dogs for everything. I to now think they are not a good match with an unsupervised child of any age. Hell no dog is completely safe imo. Afterall they are prey animals, and we are the numb nut humans who are now of the opinion they are "human" like, or our "Fur babies" (smh). My bulldogs have rarely seen a child, and some though they have all been socialized to an extent hear that "squeek" from a child and it turns a switch on that I know could be a recipe for disaster!

I think that if you have children, and bulldogs and you take the time to discipline both and educate your child on the breed and they know full well what these dogs are capable of. And you can trust your child with one, well that's great! An those pics you posted AGK are clearly an example of that. And kuddos to you for having the time to give each of those bulldogs that "special" attention. A lot of us don't have that luxury.

[TopShelfKennels]

I have 4 rugrats in my household and something i stress with them and the kids in the family, is proper dog etiquette. Many kids and adult lack that big time. If they act correctly around most all dogs, the dogs will act correctly with the kids. There is no playing with dog toys anyway in the house, only in the yard. All my dogs associate the house as the relaxing area. Lol nothing in the house belongs to the dogs so there is nothing for them to fuss over. I just think folks need to be more educated on how to greet dogs and act around them.

[AGK]

You got some lucky kids. Nice pictures

Thank you!

[AGK]

While I used to be of the opinion that these dogs were the best "all" around dogs for everything. I to now think they are not a good match with an unsupervised child of any age. Hell no dog is completely safe imo. Afterall they are prey animals, and we are the numb nut humans who are now of the opinion they are "human" like, or our "Fur babies" (smh). My bulldogs have rarely seen a child, and some though they have all been socialized to an extent hear that "squeek" from a child and it turns a switch on that I know could be a recipe for disaster!

I think that if you have children, and bulldogs and you take the time to discipline both and educate your child on the breed and they know full well what these dogs are capable of. And you can trust your child with one, well that's great! An those pics you posted AGK are clearly an example of that. And kuddos to you for having the time to give each of those bulldogs that "special" attention. A lot of us don't have that luxury.


Very true, In my home, the kids will always come before the dogs. If a dog even looked at one of them wrong it would be resting where the worms and the weak be. I spend more hours than I care to count on teaching both how to behave around each other. My son can enter the chain spots with out me as he has been around them long enough to know the ins and outs. My daughter, while also knows the ins and out of these dogs is not allowed in the dogs area with out myself being present. Simply because she is smaller and the dogs go nuts when they see the kids and it would be just far to easy to get a leg tangled up in a high stung males chain while he is excited or jumped on and knocked over. My dogs are fully separated from the rest of my yard so no one can just stroll into a chain spot and I keep it under lock and key. Many people would just prefer to keep the 2 separate however I am not one of them. I have kids and I have dogs and they BOTH have to coexist together without incident since there will be times that the 2 will cross paths whether we are breeding them or just letting one off it's chain to run in the main part of my back yard. Educating the child is just as ( if not more) important than socializing the dog, although that is a highly important part of it too. Kids are typically cruel to animals basically because they just don't know any better so must be taught how to act and treat animals if they are going to be around them. Same goes for the dogs.

I would never keep a yard of more than 10 dogs simply because unless you don't work and have some help there is no way in hell you have enough time to spend on each individual dog and I am not one to let a dog rot on a chain or only see me when it is feeding or working time, they deserve more than that in my opinion especially those ones who have proven their worth. I work 9 hours a day and spend the rest of my time I'm not sleeping in the yard more times than not. I don't have friends (my choice), I don't go out partying or ever leave my house for more than a few hours at a time. Even on my half hour lunch break from work, I drive home to pick up dog shit instead of eating lunch. It is definitely a different lifestyle that due to the stigmata surrounding the breed and all the bull shit laws enacted in their behalf has incarcerated me, has made most of my past friendship end, with the exception of my parents NONE OF MY FAMILY WILL VISIT ME and 9.5 out of 10 women I date jump ship simply because they can't handle the competition for my attention, the dogs always win that battle but it's rewarding to me so I do it. I do not ever look at my dogs as a tool that gets put away when I am not using them, I give them 110% because that is what I expect them to give me back when asked to.... No dog should be left unattended with any child period regardless of breed.

[Steeldog]

Love the pics AGK. Thanks for sharing. Who says they can't be good with kids. Just got use sound judgment just with any other breed.

[EWO]

Great pictures. It shows a ton of work and education for the dogs as well as the kids, and in most cases the kids are the hardest to teach. The pics demonstrate a boat load of time, commitment and effort. Great job. EWO

[Officially Retired]

Well said, EWO.

[AGK]

Thanks guys, appreciate the kind words. I've had a lot of help over the years from some really fantastic people. A lot of trial and error, especially back in the late 90's. It's a lot easier of a job these days. ;)

[realpitsnobull]

Every one Has some nice pics and good points I think we all can agree that a young child should not be alone with any dog much less a true well breed sporting dog period!!! Me and Mr jack don't agree on everything( who will) but we on the exact same page on this one! I don't have any kids myself maybe soon but plenty of hounds they are my kids kinda lol. Like I read someone post its just common sense . Can not trust a kid with some adults alone much less a pit bull ! If you do you just taking a chance and thats your right but every one can and will have a different experience I understand his points about how fast I animal can show you why they are called animals for a number of reasons . All dogs are different just like people the most respectable human flip in a flash if the right thing happens. I have never been bit for real but nicks and scratches plenty mostly do to luck or god and knowing how to handle my hot high energy dogs . Now I have some dog that if I go they go they can not be handle by anyone but me I can put my hand to cage licks and I wagging tale but if you put your hand near the cage werewolf time just like a switch my boys love to see it. Some of them are just one owner hounds period. All dogs can not be turned into a house dog or supposed to be like I said your welcome to take the chance may work may not. I sold I dog to a good friend years back the in my beginning dog days he had this dog maybe 5 years or so now this dog was turned on and gave many signs but he still tried to keep the dog in the home he loved the dog but one day him and his now wife was in a big fuss a was not there but I think he grabbed her or jerked her up well when my dog saw this he kicked in to protection mode on him like a switch was clicked it was a bloody mess plenty staples and stitches on his arm and leg and I felt bad!!! He called and told me that it happen soon as and said it was his fault but was now scared of the dog and had to put him down. So u just never know.