BEST PRODUCER OF MODERN TIMES ?

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Would be interested to hear members view as which dogs have been the best producers of the modern era ? My own personal opinion is that Gr Ch Croata ROM is certainly one, not only has he produced but many of his best offspring have also shown to be good producers as well.

GR CH CAPITAL KENNELS OSIRIS¨THE UNTOUCHABLE¨ 5XW 2 BIS P.O.R
WESTSIDEENT'S (TEAM CRO) INTERNATIONAL CH RED CRO 3XW 2BIS (DOY 2015 -16 ANU)POR
LZD TEAM CRO CH AFRICANO 4XW
CH INTERNATIONAL GOLD DAY AKA SISMO 4XW BIS 1XL
RBK TEAM CRO CH DYLAN 3XW 1XL
VENDETTA'S EME 2XW
TEAM ASIAN CRO BLACK HUNTER 2XW
YOUNG (TEAM CRO USA) XAVIER 2XW
LYON GAMEPIT`S CROATA II 1XW 1XLG P.O.R
ARTERO AND GO TEAM BASILEA 1XW
BANGCITY MARLO 1XW
CHAMP CAMP'S(GO KNL) GUTA 1XW, 1XLG
CORDOVA'S APOLO -THE GREAT- 1XDGL GIS
CORDOVA'S KLEO 1XW
E.T.C FARM (TEAM CRO) VILI IV 1XW
FELIX (TEAMCRO USA) LOWKEY 1XW 1XL
FELIX'S LOW-KEY 1XW
GO KNLS (TEAM CRO) GUTA 1XW, 1XLG
GO KNLS (TEAM CRO) KORITA 1XW 1XGL G.I.S
MAROSBULL'S (TEAM CRO) MANDIRA 1XW
SN STRIKE KNLS (TEAMCRO ANGOLA) SNIPER 1XW
TEAM CRO V.I ROLEX 1XW BIS, 1GL
ARTERO'S CROMEL 1XGL
CORDOVA'S APOLO -THE GREAT- 1XDGL GIS
GO (TEAMCRO) CROMAN 1XGL
IRON BULL (TEAM CRO) NEMECI 1XLG
JLE TEAM CRO KENNELS DEVORAH 1XGL
SN STRIKE KNLS MAMBA 1XLG
DELGADO KENNEL´S ARIKA P.O.R.

https://i.imgur.com/w0qqUow.png

[EWO]

This topic is not my cup of tea as I never really got into the breeding of the dogs.

So I will go with the dogs I seen personally, not just read about. I doubt they will be 'Best of Modern Times' but they produced bulldogs.

Mims Spiffy ROM

Mim's/DTA's CH. Charlie. The best dog I have ever seen. Damn near perfect in every way. He would turn a 12-14' chain into a flying jenny by rubbing the dog chained next to him for as long as you chose to sit there. He was methodical and patient. He showed great finish. He won his first over a 2XW/2X OTC dog as a 2 week replacement. Then three more. Most complete dog I ever saw.

Produced a lot of winning Red Boy dogs when crossed onto the Snooty/Bolio dogs.


Patrick's Kasai....

Produced the only all game-all show dog litter I have ever seen when bred to a Red Boy/Outlaw female. Six puppies all proved to be match quality dogs. All went to the show with the exception of my Miss Petey female, collected one forfeit/paid one forfeit, and arguably the best of the litter.

When crossed to the Two Eyes/Panther blood produced Cornbread and Chloe. Cornbread being the most devastating dog I have ever seen. Simply loved competition. He actually would show disappointment if another came off the chain instead of him. Brutal dog. He made his mark here and then sold due to some financial issues. He went into a beehive of good dogs marching thru from one end to the other. His sister one once over an impressive camp with a great dog. She was rubbed in #2 and I lost her, 99% my ignorance and 1% of the sorry fucker that chose that route to a W.

Neither may crack the Top 25, but I think a person's individual "Top dogs" can create create conversation.

EWO

[LEFTLANE]

Rock I want today thanks you for recognizing the GL as well. Many people wouldnt post them and to me that's not right. So much plays a part in winning and losing . To me if they was ran at least the dog impressed someone enough to think they was a decent hunter.

I do machobear, is the top producer right now. I still wouldn't pay that stuff fee. I think percentage wise EL Titere is probably the true #1 producer.
LLB

[Frank43]

I wanted l know how crews rocky line was producing. Is rocky 3 throwing like his grandad. I know solid generational linebreeding is outdated. Who throws khabib type fighters. Hardworking, strong, game good wrestler but my not be super athletes.

https://www.mmanytt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Khabib-Nurmagomedov-Conor-McGregor-1000x652.jpg%5BIMG%5Dhttps://www.mmanytt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Khabib-Nurmagomedov-Conor-McGregor-1000x652.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

[YELLOWJOHN]

macho bear is surely #1 until all the hype dies down.. this is just like the flavor of the month I feel. it will be something else soon enough.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

I wanted l know how crews rocky line was producing. Is rocky 3 throwing like his grandad. I know solid generational linebreeding is outdated. Who throws khabib type fighters. Hardworking, strong, game good wrestler but my not be super athletes.

https://www.mmanytt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Khabib-Nurmagomedov-Conor-McGregor-1000x652.jpg%5BIMG%5Dhttps://www.mmanytt.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Khabib-Nurmagomedov-Conor-McGregor-1000x652.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

Gr Ch Goon may not be throwing hounds with the most athletic rangy builds but they lack for nothing else.

[Frank43]

I don’t care much about athletic rangy builds. I’d rather have some meat on them.

[EWO]

The advantage to being athletic and rangy, long and tall, is leverage. It means a lot. If the taller longer dog is the same weight as his counterpart, and they are of close to equal in the other categories, the taller longer dog is 'bigger'. Being 'bigger' is always a huge advantage.

Similar in fashion to boxing. The taller guy with the reach has the advantage. The shorter guy can get there and he can win, but he has to work much harder to get the job done, maybe even take a few more shots in order to get there. Dogs no different.

EWO

[Frank43]

I don’t want an over muscled staff looking dog. I always liked this dog. Wish I could have seen him in real life. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/14981.jpg. He’s balanced to me looks fast and strong. Like his backend is well made

[EWO]

That is a good looking dog. He has some height and some length. He dies have some muscle and some mass. But more so he has good bone up front.

Good looking dog.

EWO

[Frank43]

His confirmation is perfect to me.

[Moechief]

From what I'm told...This one is throwing much better than himself
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=50894
there should be something said for the Borderline hounds that produce at a higher quality of performance than what they performed at along with the dogman that had the foresight and commitment to make higher quality hounds.

[Milehighmisfit]

Hammonds ‘ Park Son was a very good producer and is down from Rufus who was a hell of a producer especially when looking at percentages. I don’t believe Park Son was bred to an army of bitches like some other well known studs. Something to consider is the bitches the stud is bred too.Mr. Hammonds said a big part of Park Sons’ success was the super high quality bitches that were backed up to him. As GH put it, they were “custom bred bitches”. Some believe that Race Horse Haynes was throwing equally as well but wasn’t backed up to the same level of bitches.

[Milehighmisfit]

K
This topic is not my cup of tea as I never really got into the breeding of the dogs.

So I will go with the dogs I seen personally, not just read about. I doubt they will be 'Best of Modern Times' but they produced bulldogs.

Mims Spiffy ROM

Mim's/DTA's CH. Charlie. The best dog I have ever seen. Damn near perfect in every way. He would turn a 12-14' chain into a flying jenny by rubbing the dog chained next to him for as long as you chose to sit there. He was methodical and patient. He showed great finish. He won his first over a 2XW/2X OTC dog as a 2 week replacement. Then three more. Most complete dog I ever saw.

Produced a lot of winning Red Boy dogs when crossed onto the Snooty/Bolio dogs.


Patrick's Kasai....

Produced the only all game-all show dog litter I have ever seen when bred to a Red Boy/Outlaw female. Six puppies all proved to be match quality dogs. All went to the show with the exception of my Miss Petey female, collected one forfeit/paid one forfeit, and arguably the best of the litter.

When crossed to the Two Eyes/Panther blood produced Cornbread and Chloe. Cornbread being the most devastating dog I have ever seen. Simply loved competition. He actually would show disappointment if another came off the chain instead of him. Brutal dog. He made his mark here and then sold due to some financial issues. He went into a beehive of good dogs marching thru from one end to the other. His sister one once over an impressive camp with a great dog. She was rubbed in #2 and I lost her, 99% my ignorance and 1% of the sorry fucker that chose that route to a W.

Neither may crack the Top 25, but I think a person's individual "Top dogs" can create create conversation.

EWO

I appreciate you sharing personal experience about dogs you actually saw from your area. Most of the well know, big time studs are dogs that were open to the public and anyone with coin could breed to them. On the other hand you have studs that were super producers but never breed outside the yard or right circle and never received mainstream recognition.

[EWO]

Very true.

I never saw Red Boy or Jeep or Bolio or Machobuck or Buck or Capp, or any of the great producers/performers from yesteryear.


I try to only talk about what I have seen and on occasion I will repeat something from first hand (which usually gets the 2nd and third rendition going and by the facts are no longer a primary concern.

By only going off what I have seen it has kept me limited in a lot of ways. I'm one of those really dumb guys that have to see it to appreciate it. For that reason alone I have missed out on a lot of good dogs, simply weary of pulling the trigger (and cheap on top of that as well).

I wish I could talk CYJ into spending more time on the board. He is one of the last great links to yesteryear. He has seen and put his hands on the dogs 99% of the game read about and talk about. Not many can say that. This is a guy that has been in the same room with Snooty and said he looks like shit, you should pay up. He saw the great Molly Bee break a dogs muzzle in half. He could give you possibly the best account on the origins of Red Boy. He played a huge role in the great Hank dog, which led to to Jocko dog which led to one of the most important crosses in the history of the dogs.

That should be a primary topic of conversation. Things that someone has actually seen or done, not perpetuating the next great story.

Think about the last show you saw. Two guys in the box. Two dogs in the box. And a ref. Then there are 20-30 standing out side the box that and all of them have/had one that went up hill 10lbs on a 2XW, stopping him in 17 minutes with blood on the floor and guts on the wall. RIP of course.

One thing that I have learned in these dogs is that all the killers are at home on the night of the show, except for two!

EWO

[louch]

Rocky lll is put some good ones out

[Frank43]

I see your point now. speed kills

[STA8541]

Very true.

I never saw Red Boy or Jeep or Bolio or Machobuck or Buck or Capp, or any of the great producers/performers from yesteryear.


I try to only talk about what I have seen and on occasion I will repeat something from first hand (which usually gets the 2nd and third rendition going and by the facts are no longer a primary concern.

By only going off what I have seen it has kept me limited in a lot of ways. I'm one of those really dumb guys that have to see it to appreciate it. For that reason alone I have missed out on a lot of good dogs, simply weary of pulling the trigger (and cheap on top of that as well).

I wish I could talk CYJ into spending more time on the board. He is one of the last great links to yesteryear. He has seen and put his hands on the dogs 99% of the game read about and talk about. Not many can say that. This is a guy that has been in the same room with Snooty and said he looks like shit, you should pay up. He saw the great Molly Bee break a dogs muzzle in half. He could give you possibly the best account on the origins of Red Boy. He played a huge role in the great Hank dog, which led to to Jocko dog which led to one of the most important crosses in the history of the dogs.

That should be a primary topic of conversation. Things that someone has actually seen or done, not perpetuating the next great story.

Think about the last show you saw. Two guys in the box. Two dogs in the box. And a ref. Then there are 20-30 standing out side the box that and all of them have/had one that went up hill 10lbs on a 2XW, stopping him in 17 minutes with blood on the floor and guts on the wall. RIP of course.

One thing that I have learned in these dogs is that all the killers are at home on the night of the show, except for two!

EWO Great post.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Gr Ch El Titere has 5 champions now and a slew of very young dogs in very capable hands coming up both in the U.S., Mexico and abroad.

https://i.ibb.co/Zh4Hr6V/118563527-341833607192596-6652472527076154291-o.jpg (https://ibb.co/4jvsLZ7)

[ROCK-MACHINE]

CH RAMPAGE'S UA SHIP 3XW BIS ROM who had limited breedings is another good producer.

CH DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA SHU 4XW GIS DOY
CH DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA & BIG SNAKE'S BURYA 3XW
CH EBK'S (RAMPAGE'S UA) SONYA KILL 3XW
CH DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA SPARTA 3XW
EBK'S (UDV & RAMPAGE'S UA) GRIZZLY BEAR 2XW BIS
RAMPAGE UA & DDY'S JACARE 2XW
EBK & MARIN'S (UDV&RAMPAGE'S UA) HYENA 2XW1XL
FREEDOM & RAMPAGE UA & DDY'S MOONSON 1XW
DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA VIHR 1XW
RAMPAGE'S UA&DDY&BIG SNAKE'S&CHERKESS'S KHAL 1XW B.I.S.
SN STRIKE'S (RAMPAGE'S UA) ZOMBIE 1XW B.I.S.
EBK&MARIN'S (RAMPAGE'S UA) PULI 1XW B.I.S. 1XL
RAMPAGE'S UA & DDY'S NITROGUN 1XW (3h 45 min) RIP

https://i.ibb.co/tX5M135/med-575cff4e5ffdb.jpg (https://ibb.co/SrpXZJp)

[Frank43]

I want to know about Alpo. I think for a lot of reasons he would go well with a female I have

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Mal Kant has a very nice breeding done with Alpo to a daughter of Croata, should be some winners in that provided they get into capable hands.

Other then that, what is there to say, he went into solid competition though some say his camp avoided Ch Pablo like the plague. He has changed hands a few times with Mal Kant now feeding him, he's been bred a good bit but so far nothing is making waves, he certainly doesn't thus far deserve a mention in the best producers of the modern era discussion.

[Boilermaker123]

You will be hearing more about this one soon he is producing some phenomenal bulldogs not only that but his offspring is producing as well


http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=59212

[brasso]

CH RAMPAGE'S UA SHIP 3XW BIS ROM who had limited breedings is another good producer.

CH DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA SHU 4XW GIS DOY
CH DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA & BIG SNAKE'S BURYA 3XW
CH EBK'S (RAMPAGE'S UA) SONYA KILL 3XW
CH DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA SPARTA 3XW
EBK'S (UDV & RAMPAGE'S UA) GRIZZLY BEAR 2XW BIS
RAMPAGE UA & DDY'S JACARE 2XW
EBK & MARIN'S (UDV&RAMPAGE'S UA) HYENA 2XW1XL
FREEDOM & RAMPAGE UA & DDY'S MOONSON 1XW
DDY & RAMPAGE'S UA VIHR 1XW
RAMPAGE'S UA&DDY&BIG SNAKE'S&CHERKESS'S KHAL 1XW B.I.S.
SN STRIKE'S (RAMPAGE'S UA) ZOMBIE 1XW B.I.S.
EBK&MARIN'S (RAMPAGE'S UA) PULI 1XW B.I.S. 1XL
RAMPAGE'S UA & DDY'S NITROGUN 1XW (3h 45 min) RIP

https://i.ibb.co/tX5M135/med-575cff4e5ffdb.jpg (https://ibb.co/SrpXZJp)

The above are Eastern European dogs, right?

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Yes, Ship is from the Ukraine.

[brasso]

I thought so. I'm originally from the region myself.

30 yrs ago I bred to Gene Thurmond's (RIP) Cracker Jack dog. I see he eventually made ROM. That dog was bred to everything under the sun. Gene loved that dog and wanted nothing more but to put him on the map as a producer. I do not consider Cracker Jack a good producer per se. No disrespect and God Bless Gene's memory. In my opinion, as someone who has done nothing in the dogs, there are many factors. A couple being the amount of litters and where the pups end up. If the Tombstone x Red Baby pups ended up in pet homes, we wouldn't be talking about that breeding today. If a dog gets bred hundreds of times, of course he'll eventually produce. To me, a dog that has been bred 3 or 4 times and has a few solid winners (or honest losers) on the ground is much more valuable as a producer as opposed to an ROM that gets laid every night (a bit jealous). The title does not necessarily depict the storyline.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

I thought so. I'm originally from the region myself.

30 yrs ago I bred to Gene Thurmond's (RIP) Cracker Jack dog. I see he eventually made ROM. That dog was bred to everything under the sun. Gene loved that dog and wanted nothing more but to put him on the map as a producer. I do not consider Cracker Jack a good producer per se. No disrespect and God Bless Gene's memory. In my opinion, as someone who has done nothing in the dogs, there are many factors. A couple being the amount of litters and where the pups end up. If the Tombstone x Red Baby pups ended up in pet homes, we wouldn't be talking about that breeding today. If a dog gets bred hundreds of times, of course he'll eventually produce. To me, a dog that had been bred to 2 or 3 times and has a few solid winners on the ground is much more valuable as a producer as opposed to an ROM that gets laid every night. The title does not necessarily depict the storyline.

Very true brasso.

[Frank43]

I want to breed him to my Brahma dog. She has shown herself to be a smart finisher. The first litter she had bred to a bull/tant waccamaw dog look pretty good. I was thinking of breeding her to Machobear. I heard he could be on the cold side. She was a late starter but smart as hell and can finish. I figured the redboy in Alpo would be good. I don’t want stupid hot dogs. Hopefully the 1/4 redboy in the breeding will keep some heat in them and sill have some Machobear finish. Do you know who Alpo went into and if he came across Eli Chinaman dogs on his way to five. What were his traits and style. The coefficient of inbreeding on the breeding is 4%. I think they line up on style and brains. Seems like it should work to me.

[Frank43]

Gr ch tango what were his hunts like. Who is his best son?

[CrazyRed]

Gr ch tango what were his hunts like. Who is his best son?

tango was like watching Jet Li in his action movies. He was slick, smart and could move. He ain't like getting bit they say and guess what? You wasn't going to bite him after your 1st one lol. His best son has to be GrCh Ol School.. Others in mention might be CH Cash, Ch RedFox or Ch Chucky, folks was really high on Mambo 2x also. His best offspring might of been Ch Cabrini, bad little bitch.

[STA8541]

tango was like watching Jet Li in his action movies. He was slick, smart and could move. He ain't like getting bit they say and guess what? You wasn't going to bite him after your 1st one lol.

Sounds like a good one.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

I might be wrong but I believe that he bet three champions, four 2x Winners and a 1x Winner (pushing weight for that one).

[Frank43]

Do you know any names or bloodlines on those dogs. People swear you can’t win without eli

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Do you know any names or bloodlines on those dogs. People swear you can’t win without eli

I'm not sure sorry.

[Frank43]

No prob. I have had my mind made up on this plan forward for a long time. Probably nothing anything anyone can say to sway me from it. Double bred awesome beast son of tango with some Boyle’s plus I think my female is his type. I’m pushing forward. Only one way to find out.

[STA8541]

tango... His best son has to be GrCh Ol School. Others in mention might be CH Cash, Ch RedFox or Ch Chucky, folks was really high on Mambo 2x also. His best offspring might of been Ch Cabrini, bad little bitch.

I checked out the offspring list for Tango & the only dog listed on this website is Gr. Ch. Ol' School (5xW). Do you have any info on Ch. Cash, Ch. Red Fox, Ch. Chucky, or Ch. Cabrini? Specifically, who the dam(s) was/were? Siring so many champions, Tango should be well on his way to POR or ROM or both, I think. If you do have any of that information, you could enter it into the database & make it more complete. If you don't know, of course, forget I asked lol.

Not a big deal if you don't know, just an idea trying to make the database a bit better, that's all.

[brasso]

Bady didn't exactly go into top competition. I happen to be from the area.

[CMK]

I thought we were talking strictly production! Production wise Bady should be at the top of the list for our modern era with Macaco trailing close behind.

[brasso]

I doubt it.

[Frank43]

What happens with a dog like mal Kants Camacho. Does he get looked at and put out to stud for heat and investment reasons?

[SGC]

As with everything, individual thoughts by individual folks.
Sometimes bias sometimes ignorance. (Please understand the definition of this word)
My "individual" assessment of a good producer, is not only his off spring but the ability to produce afterwards.
Now you could breed some dog 100 times and keep looking at one and finally make W out of them but the law of Averages are still there.
Now if you have a dog for one reason or another that was need to a limited amount of dogs and those dogs themselves are not worth the sperm you wasted how can you blame the stud.
There have been many dogs locally (North America) that were bred very free times and in one litter gave you a couple of Ch. and multiple winners then you know you have a good producer.
If I'm not mistaken I don't think Redboy was need to anything but his offspring, offspring or half brother/sister ..more or less, yet he produced pretty well I would say.
Now Friscowas bred more times than you can say. Thank You. So does that make him a great producer ?
I can tell you from the dogs I have seen go. Example,. Buck. Gr. Ch tornado.would not hesitate to breed to them get a dig off off them.