GAMENESS OR EGO ?

[ROCK-MACHINE]

I was watching some old video's of Ch Golden King's King 8XW, 1XGL ROM, the dog in his youth was an absolute monster. He was retired and was living as a 8 year old house dog when his owner decided to call out a prime killer in Gr Ch Atila's Dendy.

The match was set and King was conditioned to come in heavier then all his previous contests to meet Dendy's ideal pit weight. The match went as one would expect with King giving a good account of himself but losing game and then losing his life after the match.

I'm not taking anything away from Gr Ch Dendy or his camp, the dog was one of the all time greats and deserving of his level of fame.

Another example of this was a retired and 9 year old Big Apples Gr Ch Haunch who was living as a house dog being brought out to meet a prime Storm Trooper's Big Boy. Haunch took a God awful beating but at hour-forty three an out of hold's count was given to Big Boy where he stood the line and Haunch barley made it over to Big Boy where he took hold and won. Like King before him, Haunch died after the match.

A more recent example was that of Ch HMK's Ali Baba 8XW BIS, 1XL who had been brought out a total of 9 times (his match with Gold Day was a no contest as it was interrupted by someone yelling there was a raid) and was retired before being brought out at an older age to face a younger dog who was brought in especially to beat Ali Baba (sorry I can't for the life of me remember this dogs name, no disrespect meant for the dog or camp). In the end Ali Baba stood the line...

My question is it gameness being shown by the camp to give their dog every opportunity at further greatness doing what they love or is it more a case of ego before dog ?

https://i.imgur.com/r1f3ir9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vdoG9Fo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ulqXKB0.jpg

[skip11]

Ego of owners imo. Even if they do brought them out again, should've pick em up if they're losing. The dogs deserve a good life after that many contests.

[EWO]

I would lean toward ego as at some point during 1 thru 8/9/10 the dog had done all he needed to do, all he should have had to do and done all that he came here to do. But the owner said, "Let's get one more".

Sometimes they go to the well one too many times.

EWO

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Ego is my thought as well. I feel that no one knows their dog better then the owner but as the owner he or she should know when to call No Mas and leave a dog enjoy their well earned retirement. These are living creatures and not machines, they only have so much to give.

[Black Hand]

You arent going to have a 8 timer with no ego in the first place. Probably wont have one if losing him is on your mind.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Ego will always play a part in the game, it's human nature but it's when that ego takes front and center as it appears it did in the above examples. Again, no one knows their dog better then who owns and cares for him and sometimes the gamble, the risk pays off as it did for El' Titere in his last against Smokey......but to plays Devils advocate what if El Titere had lost his 8th and his life, then would it have been a case of ego before dog rather then the then owners of El' Titere showing to have the gameness necessary to let him go ?

[sam i am]

All ego I would have to say...

[EWO]

I was thinking the same but did not know how to get it into words.

It takes cod sack to get the first W and the amount of sack needed to do 7 or 8 is tremendous.

Making the call when 'enough is enough' has to be hard when ol' Spot looks like he has one more in him.


Ch. Angel won 3, planted all three, plus a couple en route to her first show. Her owner put her on the chain and she became a brood dog. I was thinking she had a few more in her and we actually urged him to keep going. He stuck to his guns and she never came back out.

If she were mine, we would have come back out, understanding there is a lot of difference between 3 and 8, but for some it is all about the show.

EWO



You arent going to have a 8 timer with no ego in the first place. Probably wont have one if losing him is on your mind.

[Black Hand]

Ego will always play a part in the game, it's human nature but it's when that ego takes front and center as it appears it did in the above examples. Again, no one knows their dog better then who owns and cares for him and sometimes the gamble, the risk pays off as it did for El' Titere in his last against Smokey......but to plays Devils advocate what if El Titere had lost his 8th and his life, then would it have been a case of ego before dog rather then the then owners of El' Titere showing to have the gameness necessary to let him go ?

Everyone's priorities are not the same. We can't allude to the loss of the animal or a loss on the record as being a devastating blow to owner just because it might be to you or myself. Everyone is operating within a different frame.of mind and coming from a different angle than you. What is tragic to me, might just be another part of the game to you. I don't think that has much to do with gameness or ego.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Everyone's priorities are not the same. We can't allude to the loss of the animal or a loss on the record as being a devastating blow to owner just because it might be to you or myself. Everyone is operating within a different frame.of mind and coming from a different angle than you. What is tragic to me, might just be another part of the game to you. I don't think that has much to do with gameness or ego.

Well put.

[Osagedogman2015]

Everyone's priorities are not the same. Everyone is operating within a different frame.of mind and coming from a different angle than you.

I wish more people would understand this and learn how to just focus on what they are doing.

[ROCK-MACHINE]

I wish more people would understand this and learn how to just focus on what they are doing.

Why are you here on a chat forum if not to chat bulldogs ?

[STA8541]

I was watching some old video's of Ch Golden King's King 8XW, 1XGL ROM, the dog in his youth was an absolute monster. He was retired and was living as a 8 year old house dog when his owner decided to call out a prime killer in Gr Ch Atila's Dendy. The match was set and King was conditioned to come in heavier then all his previous contests to meet Dendy's ideal pit weight. The match went as one would expect with King giving a good account of himself but losing game and then losing his life after the match. I'm not taking anything away from Gr Ch Dendy or his camp, the dog was one of the all time greats and deserving of his level of fame.

Another example of this was a retired and 9 year old Big Apples Gr Ch Haunch who was living as a house dog being brought out to meet a prime Storm Trooper's Big Boy. Haunch took a God awful beating but at hour-forty three an out of hold's count was given to Big Boy where he stood the line and Haunch barley made it over to Big Boy where he took hold and won. Like King before him, Haunch died after the match.

A more recent example was that of Ch HMK's Ali Baba 8XW BIS, 1XL who had been brought out a total of 9 times (his match with Gold Day was a no contest as it was interrupted by someone yelling there was a raid) and was retired before being brought out at an older age to face a younger dog who was brought in especially to beat Ali Baba (sorry I can't for the life of me remember this dogs name, no disrespect meant for the dog or camp). In the end Ali Baba stood the line...

My question is it gameness being shown by the camp to give their dog every opportunity at further greatness doing what they love or is it more a case of ego before dog ?

Really nice post. I just asked a fella that was clearly in a position to know about the Gr. Ch. Dendy match with Gr. Ch. King before I saw this what his thoughts were about King's age & alleged lack of conditioning (it's an old thread so I don't expect to hear back, but I was curious as to his opinion on the off chance he sees it). I also heard about the Gr. Ch. Haunch match, that it was done basically to bump Gr. Ch. Mayday up the sire list. I'd never heard of Ch. Ali Baba until now, but obviously he falls into the same category, as does Robert T, etc.

I saw some really sensible replies made to this question here, nice job. It seems to me it's not necessarily "either/or" but depends more on the people involved & the circumstances, as well as the dogs & their opponents. It may depend on whether or not the owner is more of a "breeder" type or more of a "match" type. There is no hard line, many do both, but a guy that is more interested in the dogs as blood stock may want to limit the hound's hunts once...& this is important...once he knows of the dog's gameness & has seen it for himself in a contest or roll with another quality dog. Such a man may not want to risk losing such a valuable animal once he knew he had something he wanted in terms of breeding. Reaching back through the mists of time e.g. my understanding is Bolio was matched just the once (pretty sure he was rolled more often) & won a long match over a 2xW opponent that killed both his priors & that a lot of people said was an ace; apparently Bolio made this other dog look at times like he couldn't get out of his own way. His gameness was thus tested & proven, while he also showed tremendous ability, & so that was the match career of legendary Bolio, just the one hunt & then went on to become a terrific producer. His owner didn't need to see any more gameness & didn't have anything more to prove (or maybe couldn't find any takers for a second match, I have no idea). Maybe if he kept on matching him the dog would have been KIA at some point (especially if they wheeled him back out after he'd well earned a luxurious retirement), who can say?

So much for the man that is looking to breed. Maybe there's another guy that's not so concerned with the dog's pedigree or is too worried about breeding him, but is just looking for hot match prospects. That guy may have seen hundreds or even thousands of dogs before he sees one the quality of King, Robert T, Haunch, Ali Baba, etc. That type of guy may want to match his charge as often as possible, for glory or $$$ or both.

It's not an easy question to answer imo & is why I say "it depends." Thanks again for the thought-provoking question!

[ROCK-MACHINE]

Really nice post. I just asked a fella that was clearly in a position to know about the Gr. Ch. Dendy match with Gr. Ch. King before I saw this what his thoughts were about King's age & alleged lack of conditioning (it's an old thread so I don't expect to hear back, but I was curious as to his opinion on the off chance he sees it). I also heard about the Gr. Ch. Haunch match, that it was done basically to bump Gr. Ch. Mayday up the sire list. I'd never heard of Ch. Ali Baba until now, but obviously he falls into the same category, as does Robert T, etc.

I saw some really sensible replies made to this question here, nice job. It seems to me it's not necessarily "either/or" but depends more on the people involved & the circumstances, as well as the dogs & their opponents. It may depend on whether or not the owner is more of a "breeder" type or more of a "match" type. There is no hard line, many do both, but a guy that is more interested in the dogs as blood stock may want to limit the hound's hunts once...& this is important...once he knows of the dog's gameness & has seen it for himself in a contest or roll with another quality dog. Such a man may not want to risk losing such a valuable animal once he knew he had something he wanted in terms of breeding. Reaching back through the mists of time e.g. my understanding is Bolio was matched just the once (pretty sure he was rolled more often) & won a long match over a 2xW opponent that killed both his priors & that a lot of people said was an ace; apparently Bolio made this other dog look at times like he couldn't get out of his own way. His gameness was thus tested & proven, while he also showed tremendous ability, & so that was the match career of legendary Bolio, just the one hunt & then went on to become a terrific producer. His owner didn't need to see any more gameness & didn't have anything more to prove (or maybe couldn't find any takers for a second match, I have no idea). Maybe if he kept on matching him the dog would have been KIA at some point (especially if they wheeled him back out after he'd well earned a luxurious retirement), who can say?

So much for the man that is looking to breed. Maybe there's another guy that's not so concerned with the dog's pedigree or is too worried about breeding him, but is just looking for hot match prospects. That guy may have seen hundreds or even thousands of dogs before he sees one the quality of King, Robert T, Haunch, Ali Baba, etc. That type of guy may want to match his charge as often as possible, for glory or $$$ or both.

It's not an easy question to answer imo & is why I say "it depends." Thanks again for the thought-provoking question!

Great reply, thank you for your contribution to the thread.

[STA8541]

Great reply, thank you for your contribution to the thread.

Thank you & you're welcome.

[bigpopdog]

GAMENESS ONLY APPLIES TO THE DOGS, SO THEREFORE IT'S MORE OF THE EGO OF THE OWNERS. THE DOGS AIN'T HOOKIN NOTHIN, THEY CHILLIN IN THE HOUSE, ON THE CHAIN OR IN THE PEN ON THE YARD (DOIN THEM) :lol: , NEXT THING YOU KNOW THEY "IN KEEP".