History Hemphill strain

[Frank43]

This was posted elsewhere and I saw it. I have had pits for like 20 years. The first worth counting was off bbc's pawpaw and a boomerang dog. That was my first red nose. Her temperament was the thing that was most memorable thing about her. I guess you have that first good experience and you "go back to the well". I ended up getting some rbjbt dogs. I would rate them highest for all the things I value. Vise grip said in other places that Eli carver can give you 7-8. There are other things about a dog that makes me want to keep them near me. This is a write up that was about Hemphill dogs. Seems similar to holligsworth dogs.

My point is I'm more of a family breeder. You can call me xenophobic. Scared to take risks whatever. I like dealing with known qualities. Consistency. Then making incremental improvements. People say it doesn't make a difference but it does. Because of this I will probably breed tighter, I will encorporate ourt to make sure we stay competitive.

It makes my hair stand on edge when some one says something you said even though you never met them. They were a hundred years ago. I have never really followed trends. I was always like the old young kid. Prob never to be the one chasing the new hot winner. If there is something I am missing I will go find if. Hemphill said game, strong ,beautiful. The beautiful part i don't care about so much. More structure and function. For some reason the best ones looked good. Beautiful meaning good structures. Maybe you hose yourself. I tend to see pups I like early and the more I'm tightening down and focusing on certain animals the dogs I like are showing up more often.

I like a pup that follows naturally. I like confident pups. I like pups that don't take crap. They may not start the crap, but they end the crap. I check startle response in my pups. I take stuff like keys and throw them in a big thing of pups. See who runs. See who moves and understandable amount. Who comes back first to investigate. I like hard workers. Some phenoms don't work. I keep a pool of them. A pool of the hard workers. All these things shouldn't matter.

I believe that it is more the man behind the dog and not necessary the dog. Give me a smart, athletics hardworking dog that works I will succeed on average. I hope people start talking more in here. It's hard to find people to have educated talks with.

So far


What were the original characteristics of the Old Family Red Nose strain of Pit Bull dogs? ☘️

Reading to Richard F. Stratton's latest book "Bulldog Edition", even though at that moment dedicating my full attention to the author's excellent writing, a little Ad in the corner of page 11 caught my eye, I imagine if Richard F. Stratton placed that ad, that could easily be missed, as a gift to the reader. The Ad is by Bob Hemphill, and in it Mr. Red Nose himself explains in detail what are his dogs general characteristics.
*Thank you Richard F. Stratton for pointing something of such importance in such a simple way.

"The Gamest Ever Bred - Old Family Red Nose - (1952 Ad)

Since I first started breeding this great family of dogs in 1927, I have, with the help of other competent breeders kept them GAME, STRONG and BEAUTIFUL.

Hemphill dogs come uniform in color but not in size. They range from a buckskin, varying shades of red to a deep copper color. Eyes, skin, hair, toenails and nose uniform in color. Occasinally I had a brindle or a red with black nose, an occasional silver bucksin.

These dogs breed almost 100% dead game when FAMILY bred. They are ABSOLUTELY safe with children or grown-ups. 90% of tem can be used for all purpose dogs and yet take their death in combat.

Bob Hemphill, Summerville, S. C."

Based on the text written by Bob Hemphill is clear what were the characteristics and qualities of his strain and we can also understand why it was so important during the transition period from combat to conformation events after the ban of dog fight in 1976. In addition to their exceptional genetic quality these dogs had a unique beauty with their uniform standards and fine coat, combined with a great temperament around humans, what later become the reasons why many breeders chose this strain to compose their work.

By Z, Neylor - 19th Legacy.

Thanks to Géraldo Berghmans that helped me find the original Ad.

#AmericanPitBullTerrier #apbt #adba #ukc #oldtimes #History #vintage #classic #PitBull #BobHemphill #OldFamily #OldFamilyRedNose #IrishStrain #IrishDogs #Centipede #Williams #Ferguson #OFRN #Summerville #SouthCarolina #1950s #19thLegacy #DanMcCoy #BobWallace #BobONeil #Sander

[Frank43]

I guess since no one wants talk. I will reply to myself. Now I am certifiably crazy. Most already knew that. Prob somewhere along the point I told an ex girl. If it's between you and the dog we know who I'm keeping. Years later. I have six. Working on getting more. Point is I am a little crazy. Anyone around these dogs is a little. We are probably some version our dogs. Some more aggressive. Some slow starters like gas. Some burn like diesel fuel and motor oil. Any country boys out here know. That oil and diesel is hard to start when it starts it burn long hot and slow. And you can't get that crap off you. I'm more of a diesel oil type person. Many times after the fact. I have thought. I should have slapped the crap out that guy. I didn't see the insult in it. Anyway I digress. The point of this continuation is that while some of the things I do seems stupid. Who the hell throws keys in the middle of some puppies. What does that back to do with competitive success in any arena you choose. Weight pull, wall climb, historical aspects etc.

Temperament has a lot to do especially if you are dealling with the public. I don't see how you can have any success with a dog that doesn't want to work with you.

I know historically we have dogs like Ferguson's centipede. He actually figures prominent into some of my dogs. Hell that dog is in some of your dogs and you don't know it. Centipede was basically a phenom. He didn't want to work. He loved people. A good dogman could find a way to use his love of people to get him to work.

You could never convince me to own or breed a dog like Zebo. I'm old school like singleterry. I would rather play with ten before I dealt with a man biter. Some things are more valuable than money.

I do the natural follow test and working tests. I have ways I like to work dogs. If they don't work how I like I don't have a lot of use for them. These other dogs aren't bad. They just aren't what I want. There are people who have gotten these dogs and been satisfied with them. If I'm wrong. I can breed back. Maybe. You know how dogs bring crap out of people.

I do the follow test. This shows a dog that is naturally more people directed. They want to work and want to please. It is my opinion many problems begin can end in the brood box. I will provide some examples of this later. Recently I watched two women trying to train a cane corso. They were trying to force submit this dog. Beating it in the face. Ugly site. Harden up. This is a rough breed. I'm an ex football player. Trained mma and boxing etc. I like athletic contest. Nowhere in that did our coaches beat us in the face. If they had there prob would have been some sprewell situations. The point is you can select willing participants in the brood pen. Apply a selection criteria. Your problem fixes itself. The cane corso trainers knew how to breed what they trained their problem would go away. People directed dogs want to please you whatever the task.


Why the keys? https://wildewmn.wordpress.com/2020/01/16/startle-and-attack/. I think within the responses of dogs there's a fight or flight response. Maybe this gives those hot fast starting dogs. I'm not crazy about them. I like a dog with some discretion. Not so reactive. I have had to break up my accidents. Usually during the healing period. They are in my bed. Draining blood and pus. Getting their wounds cleaned until they heal. I can't deal with dogs with a startle response. Even in the old days there were house dogs. None of the dogs I have have fought me snapped at me. Im sure squeezing pus out of puncture wounds. Unroofing puncture wounds so they drain doesn't feel good. They know i care about them and they have the pain tolerance to take the cleaning. You think this doesn't matter but it does. What happened when you lose the phenom because they can't get after care. She's valuable to my mix. Back to the startle. There a whole article on it. We all knew frisco dogs and their reputation. Some were know. For being painfully shy. I'm sure they failed the startle test. I'm sure garner had his chinaman phenom. Bred it to the gamers bolio dog he could find. Sometimes with the brains shyness comes out. You can breed around it. Get the traits of frisco minus the shyness depending on breeding decisions. I'm not knocking the line I'm saying. These are things to keep in your head as you choose pups. If Chinaman died early before you were ready and frisco was the best you had. Add some gameness to talent. You can work with the line keep the frisco traits. Lose the shyness.

As for work drive in dogs. Lou Colby had quotes on this in dogs.

[bossman311]

I guess since no one wants talk. I will reply to myself. Now I am certifiably crazy. Most already knew that. Prob somewhere along the point I told an ex girl. If it's between you and the dog we know who I'm keeping. Years later. I have six. Working on getting more. Point is I am a little crazy. Anyone around these dogs is a little. We are probably some version our dogs. Some more aggressive. Some slow starters like gas. Some burn like diesel fuel and motor oil. Any country boys out here know. That oil and diesel is hard to start when it starts it burn long hot and slow. And you can't get that crap off you. I'm more of a diesel oil type person. Many times after the fact. I have thought. I should have slapped the crap out that guy. I didn't see the insult in it. Anyway I digress. The point of this continuation is that while some of the things I do seems stupid. Who the hell throws keys in the middle of some puppies. What does that back to do with competitive success in any arena you choose. Weight pull, wall climb, historical aspects etc.

Temperament has a lot to do especially if you are dealling with the public. I don't see how you can have any success with a dog that doesn't want to work with you.

I know historically we have dogs like Ferguson's centipede. He actually figures prominent into some of my dogs. Hell that dog is in some of your dogs and you don't know it. Centipede was basically a phenom. He didn't want to work. He loved people. A good dogman could find a way to use his love of people to get him to work.

You could never convince me to own or breed a dog like Zebo. I'm old school like singleterry. I would rather play with ten before I dealt with a man biter. Some things are more valuable than money.

I do the natural follow test and working tests. I have ways I like to work dogs. If they don't work how I like I don't have a lot of use for them. These other dogs aren't bad. They just aren't what I want. There are people who have gotten these dogs and been satisfied with them. If I'm wrong. I can breed back. Maybe. You know how dogs bring crap out of people.

I do the follow test. This shows a dog that is naturally more people directed. They want to work and want to please. It is my opinion many problems begin can end in the brood box. I will provide some examples of this later. Recently I watched two women trying to train a cane corso. They were trying to force submit this dog. Beating it in the face. Ugly site. Harden up. This is a rough breed. I'm an ex football player. Trained mma and boxing etc. I like athletic contest. Nowhere in that did our coaches beat us in the face. If they had there prob would have been some sprewell situations. The point is you can select willing participants in the brood pen. Apply a selection criteria. Your problem fixes itself. The cane corso trainers knew how to breed what they trained their problem would go away. People directed dogs want to please you whatever the task.


Why the keys? https://wildewmn.wordpress.com/2020/01/16/startle-and-attack/. I think within the responses of dogs there's a fight or flight response. Maybe this gives those hot fast starting dogs. I'm not crazy about them. I like a dog with some discretion. Not so reactive. I have had to break up my accidents. Usually during the healing period. They are in my bed. Draining blood and pus. Getting their wounds cleaned until they heal. I can't deal with dogs with a startle response. Even in the old days there were house dogs. None of the dogs I have have fought me snapped at me. Im sure squeezing pus out of puncture wounds. Unroofing puncture wounds so they drain doesn't feel good. They know i care about them and they have the pain tolerance to take the cleaning. You think this doesn't matter but it does. What happened when you lose the phenom because they can't get after care. She's valuable to my mix. Back to the startle. There a whole article on it. We all knew frisco dogs and their reputation. Some were know. For being painfully shy. I'm sure they failed the startle test. I'm sure garner had his chinaman phenom. Bred it to the gamers bolio dog he could find. Sometimes with the brains shyness comes out. You can breed around it. Get the traits of frisco minus the shyness depending on breeding decisions. I'm not knocking the line I'm saying. These are things to keep in your head as you choose pups. If Chinaman died early before you were ready and frisco was the best you had. Add some gameness to talent. You can work with the line keep the frisco traits. Lose the shyness.

As for work drive in dogs. Lou Colby had quotes on this in dogs.

Whenever you breed a family of dogs you can count on all the bugs will come out of it.
Good and bad.
When you spend years and years on it you still start over each time you outcross.
I get and love early starters in my family of dogs better than dogs that takes years to wake up.
Also added Clemmons(Zebo/Eli) , Crabbs( Maloney -Tombstone) , Eli ( Reddicks Herman, White Oak Biters) , Bolio's, Alligators and a whole host of others all known to produce dogs that will bite.

So going thru each one is a must .

The Family bred dogs are IMO alwys the best.
In fact they are the truest way to know the truth about what you feed.
Nothing worst than spending years on certain dogs just to find out down the road the papers are bad and they were never what you thought theye were.
I take what others breeders say ,think and did with a grain of salt because your family will be and show you different things if you stick with it long enough.
Nothing will ever be perfect but it's always worth sticking with.
http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=89721

[Frank43]

True. I'm making some progress on the path to a family. My first two breedings are getting older. You were right about things coming the surface. I don't think everyone culls for under and over bites. Some were worse than others. I think the dogs I have came from a lot of best to best type breeding. Nothing wrong with it. You know breeders make different decisions than competitors. Some bad bites started turning up. Usually about one per litter when the coefficient of inbreeding got above 30. I still got some vigorous individuals. I have to resize a picture of abner but prelims show he may be my next stud. He's perfect to me. Good build, confident, smart, strong as hell for his size and a little but of an asshole, scissor bite.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=86638

They say all that about not having bite in these. They would be wrong. It's probably more a question of how much do you need? My friend and I argue about this a lot. My opinion is if you have enough to control things, and the mental to close the show the mouth to let it happen. You have enough. I learned a hard lesson about brood females and other dogs with my foundation female. Seems she hates other dogs around her pups. And she's smart as hell and stubborn. Anyway. Put her and the pups in the crate. Went to go test drive a car. Got back four hours later. Two pups in my chain a bloody scene and two dogs flopped over. Bigger male is on his way the upper room from a shoulder hold.

How much do you need? If I have to lose gameness brains and style and I have enough to end a show. I think I loose on average.

All these decisions make differences. Clo is bleeding today. I have fantasized about all these males I wanted to take her to. Crews George and some 50/50 Hollingsworth studs are on the list. For some reason I can't get all the way there. Another reason I got my semen tank to end these problems.

Honestly. Looking at abner this morning. I may just stick her to David again. See if I can get a female abner out of it. Probably will. I have been looking at outcross pups to add to the mix. Crazy how in a family that is more best to best bred you get a lot of types out. I have my dog that will run through a wall for me, smart natural athlete, smart strong assassin athlete, hard worker etc. i think I'll stick David to Clo. Hope for a female abner.

Reason i say that about the types. Royal bull posted a tight cottingham male built on that fast terrier frame. My Hanna dog is a fast bolio type dog. Her litters can go that way. Speed and talent. I like abner. 8-9 months I'm having for watch him around a pup. They will play and something will trigger his prey drive. He's going to be able to close it. His mom granddad can. On top of that he has the mentality I like. Not barky, pully hot type dog. Never startled. Never afraid of cars or any of it. Perfect mentality. He's the guy like me.
In college had a friend. Some dumbass reason some thing happened he went went over there to this frat house. I go there with my girl in the jeep to make sure the guys at frat don't jump him. Long story short. We go over there and the guy that was arguing with him decides to turn to me and and says something like,"I'll kick your ass!l". I just punched his ass in the face. Crack! Me and my friend broke out fighting like five of these frat boys in the street. Point it's. Be relaxed. Alert. If one threatens you and looks like a fun fight. Bite their ass. Why bark and whine and threat display. Abner is like that.

Crews has a replacement yellow cottingham pup for me and a punk bred/yellow cottingham cross. This signing bonus comes back from the hospital. I'm hitting the road. Pick up my dogs. Take him his crate. He gets pissy. I'm thinking a titere dog from garner would be my other out cross. I want to keep the level of brains high. Start sticking David to Clo. Get my outcross female. How many times you pray to the bulldog gods to give you something like a female abner. How many times did it come through?

[Frank43]

On the early starters. I don't know. At least in this family. They are more in the rbj side. They end up hot they don't have the game plan some of the later starters have. What do I mean by late starter. One that cranked up at 8-9 months as opposed to 4. Hanna took longer. She's one of my smartest and actually most dominant.

[Frank43]

Back on this dead horse. Gonna beat it some more. Maybe I'm selfish. As a breeder. I wish i was a dog man but i look at my slots like a pro nfl team. A dog has to offer something. When i look at pups i try to look at my slots. Do i need a hyper energy pup for the mix. Are my dogs getting too much muscle etc. I say that because out my litters I eat first. They say Mr. Boudreaux used to sell off his best stock. Basically people get what they wanted first. He was a better dogman so he dealt with what was left. I wonder how many of the shy dogs on this thing get worked back into a breeders brood pen because they were left. The shy dog gets worked back in. Inbreeding etc can be a powerful and dangerous tool. Any trait that is there will be amplified for the good or bad. Something to think about. I don't have a lot of litters. Let's say my hands have been over 40 different pups out those pups i keep five. The five can change a great amount. I dont have money or space to raise every pup to maturity. Maybe some do. Point is looking at some of the temperaments can help. When they get bred it works into the line. I think there can still be competitive dogs we can live with. If they get out they are still stable. I think people look at these fearful aggressive dogs like they are tough. They aren't. They are more dangerous.

[Frank43]

http://https://animalcarecentersmyrna.com/how-to-be-a-confident-leader-for-a-new-rescue-dog/