dual sired litter

[LEFTLANE]

Anyone have this work out for them?

I bred a gyp to a old dog 11.5/12 (something like that), a year ago and it didn't take. In june bred another gyp to same dog, didn't take. So the original gyp went back and we bred to the old man and his son. 8 pups where born. Half the litter came out red/red.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=401558 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=401558) bred to son

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=394668 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=394668) bred to old man

Do you think any pups will be off Slim? I myself am skeptic

[Officially Retired]

The only way to tell is with a DNA test, and even that might be tricky because you're talking about a father and his son ...

No "post" can answer this self-created question for you.

Jack

[LEFTLANE]

I was just seeing if anyone has got pups off two males in same litter. I've herd that most people get pups off one sire when trying this. We are going to dna profile this litter. Im just wanted ti know if anyone else had a situation like this before and it worked out for them.

[QCKLime]

I was just seeing if anyone has got pups off two males in same litter. I've herd that most people get pups off one sire when trying this. We are going to dna profile this litter. Im just wanted ti know if anyone else had a situation like this before and it worked out for them.

Some people say that the sperm will "fight" each other if a bitch is bred to two males for a dual sired litter. I don't know whether or not that is true, but I do know that it must not matter much one way or the other, as I've seen PLENTY of litters that were sired by two or more fathers in clinics over the years. I don't think most of the people who've tried this have actually DONE the DNA tested necessary to prove which father is which in such a scenario - I think many look at the pups that are produced and make an "educated guess" as to which father it might've been and deduce the likelihood of all of the puppies being off of him based on uniformity of the litter -- like when you hear "yeah, we bred her to a black nose and a red nose, all the pups were this colored nose, so they have to be off of this dog" and depending on the momma and her genes, that can be a total misnomer in most cases, especially given the discrepancy between colorations and how many people actually know differences between red/chocolate etc. and so forth.

In short, yes, it's definitely possible, and you'll definitely need a DNA test to be sure.

[LEFTLANE]

Yes we are going to dna the pups. I just figured they was all off the young buck since the old man never came threw for me before. Im praying that two are off the old man. Im pretty positive the four red/red noses are off Sid cause he's a red red

[Officially Retired]

Yes, but if the old man's son, Sid, is a red-red ... then clearly the old man throws red-rednoses by virtue of the fact Sid is one himself.

Therefore you really have no idea who sired what.

[LEFTLANE]

Right. Sids mom was a red/red. Sid is a red/red.
Kimber is a buckskin. Her father buckskin. Her mother a black dog.
Slim is a buckskin. His father Tab, a buckskin. Slims mother Ruby also a black nose dog.
I believe for slim to throw a rednose the mother would have to be rednose or slim to his own daughter who's mother would have had a rednose. But when it come to the pungent square I see your point. I just think mother nature does what she want the the pungent square is not fail proof.

[CountryPete]

To determine who the sire is you will find even dna testing in this case is impossible due to the nature that it is a father/son sire that are heavy on tab. It would be easier if the son was an outcross. Good luck.

[LEFTLANE]

Well the pups will either turn out or they wont doesnt really matter which one it the sire is when you look at it in that aspect.

Thanks fellows


Killerant

[Officially Retired]

Right. Sids mom was a red/red. Sid is a red/red.
Kimber is a buckskin. Her father buckskin. Her mother a black dog.
Slim is a buckskin. His father Tab, a buckskin. Slims mother Ruby also a black nose dog.
I believe for slim to throw a rednose the mother would have to be rednose or slim to his own daughter who's mother would have had a rednose. But when it come to the pungent square I see your point. I just think mother nature does what she want the the pungent square is not fail proof.

Poncho was a buckskin too, but (like your dog) carried a red/rednose recessive gene. And *no* he didn't have to be bred to a red/rednose to produce a rednose either ... he (like your dog) could be bred to ANY color dog and produce a red/rednose, provided that other dog carried a recessive rednose gene also. This applies to black dogs too.

An "Aa" buckskin dog is a buckskin dog that carries "b" recessive gene. If you breed two "Aa" buckskin dogs you will get:

AA buckskin pups (buckskin with NO MORE rednose gene)
Aa buckskin pups (buckskin with red recessive gene)
aA buckskin pups (buckskin with red recessive gene)
aa rednose pups (with NO MORE buckskin gene)
So you bet it is possible for your buckskin male to produce red/rednoses bred to another Aa buckskin/black female.

Jack

[BulldogConnection]

Go get a DNA test done. The test will tell you which dog is the father to which pup. Simple, the color game will get you nowhere.

Find the Animal Reproductive Specialist in your area, explain your situation and ask how much a paternity test would be. You could also ask if both sires being father/son would be an issue and they'll 9 times out of 10 just answer your question over the phone.

[ScratchAndGO]

I have gotten the results back from the first breeding I did like this and all the pups were off of Insidious. Every pup in the litter had a black nose. The DNA results for Insidious were screwed up somehow(I think they lost them) and I had to resubmit them. Even with one of the sires DNA unavailable at the present they were still able to determine positively that Slim was not the sire. Now we just have to wait for the new DNA(blood sample) to come back to determine a 99.99% positive ID. It sucks that none off my favorite bitch were off Slim because I have 4 from a previous litter that are 22 months and I am more than happy with them. Hell, i'm honored to own them. That is the whole reason for this last push with the old dude. The other 2 breeding's like this I did are due back within a few weeks. Will keep posted.

[OGDOGG]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/421568.jpg (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=421568)[/IMG]Anyone have this work out for them?
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/287997.jpg (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=287997)[/IMG]
It worked out for me with this litter. 2 for 1 is a great idea. Since the 2 brothers almost have identical genes, I'd go by color and traits the puppies possess and these two possess strong traits and colors from their sires.