The underated ch paladin

[puma]

Why dont i hear anything much about this in all rights promonant bulldog ? Is there any of this stuff still around ???

[duval]

It is rare and hard to come by some good stock. I had some of the best of it at one point but was too young and dumb in the game and pretty much ruined the ones I had and didnt breed it like I should have. But there is not a lot of quality stuff left around off of it and the ones that are out there people generally keep the blood to themself because it is that good!!!!

[CountryPete]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... og_id=2482 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=2482)


http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=408187 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=408187)

[reservoirdogs]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pu ... _id=275233 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=275233)
Mine didn't work out unfortunately.

[CountryPete]

All three in this litter have natural ability and air.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... _id=293839 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=293839)

[Limey Kennels]

LK Ch spike met a w son of ch paladin in the usa for his forth back in 1983.....

[CountryPete]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=275233
Mine didn't work out unfortunately.


Was going to breed to stephano when capt. American had him but didn't he quit in Rico? Not trying to start anything.

[puma]

thanks guys was jus wondering what traits these dogs brought to the table ?

[reservoirdogs]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=275233
Mine didn't work out unfortunately.


Was going to breed to stephano when capt. American had him but didn't he quit in Rico? Not trying to start anything.
Dear Country Pete I hope that this board can be a place where talking about any dogs or subjects wouldn't mean " starting anything". I don't like the politically correct nore the egomaniacs unable to accept any critics. Your question is a good one. Any question is a good one when it helps to actually start something. That being said I heard this rumor as well once but I don't know if it's true. I heard as well that Stephano has been game tested at an old age and that he went as a true bulldog. I never really asked CAK about it. Flaco himself was a good game bulldog living kinda under the shadow of a truely good one they had at the same time Ch Red. Ive been said to breed out of this blood cause tightening up on the Stephano stuff would drastically lower the percentages. I'll post Flaco pics when I'll put my hands on an old computer.

[CountryPete]

Reservoirdog, thanks for your comments. Well, sometimes ppl get their feelings hurt even though the facts are laid out right there infront of them. I could have bred straight to Stephano, but was warned against it. I never asked CAK because I did not want to insult him. Now as far as the ch max blood (paladin) I have inbred and outcrossed it. As you already know, some bloodlines can be stacked and not lose a thing. It is true that the paladin lines lose ability and mouth when inbred.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... og_id=6732 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=6732)

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... g_id=58278 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=58278)

Both of the above dogs where great producers and extremely game but did not have much ability. Line breeding has worked out better for what I'm working with. Although, I feel its time to do an inbreeding or two on my best dogs. By all means please post Flacos pics or anything from the line. I have some pics that need to be scaned first...sometimes just too much hassle.

[CountryPete]

thanks guys was jus wondering what traits these dogs brought to the table ?


What, if any. Do you have some of this blood?

[puma]

yes i do

[CountryPete]

dude, why you hiding. What lets see your peds.

[Officially Retired]

Reservoirdog, thanks for your comments. Well, sometimes ppl get their feelings hurt even though the facts are laid out right there infront of them. I could have bred straight to Stephano, but was warned against it. I never asked CAK because I did not want to insult him. Now as far as the ch max blood (paladin) I have inbred and outcrossed it. As you already know, some bloodlines can be stacked and not lose a thing. It is true that the paladin lines lose ability and mouth when inbred.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... og_id=6732 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=6732)

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mo ... g_id=58278 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=58278)

Both of the above dogs where great producers and extremely game but did not have much ability. Line breeding has worked out better for what I'm working with. Although, I feel its time to do an inbreeding or two on my best dogs. By all means please post Flacos pics or anything from the line. I have some pics that need to be scaned first...sometimes just too much hassle.

Hey CountryPete, I don't know anything about these dogs, so forgive my intrusion upon this thread ... but one thing I would like to say (that would benefit EVERYBODY) ... is to stop making decisions based on hearsay, because alot of times it is nothing but hearsay bullship :)

For example (and I have no idea about Stephano), you were "warned against" breeding to the dog, and you formed an opinion about him based on hearsay, rather than just asking CAK about his own dog. I met and talked with CAK years ago when he came out to CA for awhile, and he sure did not strike me as the kind of guy who would get his feelings hurt over one of his dogs being a cur or (if it was game, I still don't think he'd be miffed if his dog was not able to produce). When you are dealing with a competent dogman, it is always better to get his opinion, rather than the opinion of others. No one (and I mean, no one) knows more about any dog and his ability to produce than his owner.

For example, I have heard all over the internet that my Poncho dog "was a cur" ... and yet, when I was actually the one in the pit with him, Poncho was a helluva dog and he never made a bad move in his life. Yet all these other people (who've never even laid eyes on my dog) seem to know more than I do about my own doggie :lol: Hell, before Poncho, I was also "warned" against breeding to Ch Hammer too, because the dog supposedly "couldn't produce" (at least according to the "experts" in the area). Yet I bred to Ch Hammer anyway, in only my third breeding, and to this day it has proven to be the most important, farthest-reaching breeding I have ever made in my life ... and more winners and Champions were produced from the 3 pups I got out of that breeding than were produced by any 3 dogs the nay-sayers ever owned in their lives.

The point I am getting at, my friend, is that even if those who "warned you" against Stephano were being honest, and even if they were talking openly about their own personal experiences, the fact remains it was their experience not yours. (Or not another's.) In other words, just because Dogman A and Dogman B bred to Stephano, and didn't get anything, doesn't mean Dogman C can't get a helluva litter out of the dog!

Why? Different bitch under him = different results. (Also, one owner may wait longer on his pups and give them a chance to mature-out, while the others are culling 9 - 13 month olds and making decisions based on pups, etc.)

In closing, I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I do think this pathology of "hearsay opinions" is a blight on this sport, and it can cause people people to MISS a great breeding opportunity for *their* bitch, if a person who really wants to go in a particular direction with a breeding, but is talked out of it by the "whispering experts" of his area.

While listening to the advice of others can be wise in some cases, if this pathology is followed too often it can also indicate a lack of resolve in a person ... who can form a bad habit of allowing other people to write his destiny "for him" ...

Just something to think about,

Jack

[CountryPete]

Jack, you are 100% correct about heresay. I am not one to repeat heres, that's why I initially asked the question if he quit. I was confirming the rumor that Reservoirdog stated. Which you are right because it was not my experience but someone else's. I stand corrected brother.

[Officially Retired]

Not really corrected good sir, just the paradox of truth :idea:

In other words, even if we ignore the reality that much of the hearsay we come across in this game isn't true, and focus on "warnings" that are 100% accurate (for the people giving them) that X dog "didn't produce" ... that still doesn't mean that X might not produce very well with your bitch.

Same with our own yards: your own Stud A may "not produce well" bred to your own bitch, while your own Stud B may produce a helluva litter ... and same here on my own yard :mrgreen:

Anyway, I am sorry I derailed the main topic a bit, but I thought this was a point worthy of discussing.

Cheers,

Jack