Patricks blood

[Oregonbulldog]

Has anyone been on bolio.net? Whats your opinion on this line?...

[Officially Retired]

Well, Pat Patrick's blood is behind some of the best dogs ever to look through a collar. Unfortunately, Patrick had all their dogs killed a few years back, but to be honest, the quality of their stock had diminished considerably by then.

I mean, I myself purchased multiple dogs from the Patrick's 20+ years ago, and only 2 made the grade, and that was a long time ago (but the two that made it were both excellent animals).

So, historically, Pat's line is one of the greatest lines ever, but at this point I am not sure it could consistently stand up to the best there is today. Some of them could, though, I am sure.

Jack

[Oregonbulldog]

Do you think TG dynamite blood would be a good outcross?

[Officially Retired]

Good outcross for what?

[Oregonbulldog]

Garner X Patrick

[Officially Retired]

Garner blood is founded upon Patrick blood.

Frisco is 1/4 Patrick blood. Garner's stuff is also heavy on Payne's Nasty (pure Patrick), Crum's Cajun (pure Patrick), Hollingsworth's Ruby (pure Patrick), etc.

So I wouldn't think breeding to Pat's stuff could properly be called an "outcross," more like going back in the direction of what's already there :)

Jack

[Oregonbulldog]

O.k....

[Officially Retired]

I was looking for an earlier post here, but couldn't find it. I went pretty deep into how to read a pedigree, because most people read them wrong.

For example, you are looking at things too broadly (Garner x Patrick). Those are men, not dogs. I didn't say much yesterday, because I was busy, but the truth is both men have bred dogs of various different bloodlines, both men have also owned THOUSANDS of dogs over the decades, so to speak of "their blood" really is meaningless at this point. Which dogs are you talking about therefore becomes a more meaningful way to view things.

Narrowing things down, since you mentioned Ch Dynomite (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=261716), you are essentially talking about a "Chinaman/Bolio" cross, but even that is too general. If you look at the 3rd generation in that ped, Hobb's Tuffy (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=400) is off of the super-heavy-Bolio stud Commander Whitehead bred to Bull Boy Bob's sister Slick. If you look at Commander Whitehead's pedigree, you will see his mama is off of Bolio bred to Pretty Girl, who was a sister to Chen Leng and Ch Princess, both of whom were bred near-identical to BBB and Slick. (Slick was off of Bolio/Tuffy, Pretty Girl was off of Bolio x Tuffy's mother Faith.) If you drop down a notch, there Slick is once again as the mama to Romero's China Girl, so these same truths repeat.

If you drop down 2 more notches there Chinaman is getting bred to another bitch from Patrick, this time Payne's Ch Black Annie (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=584). Annie was sired by Idi Amin, a son of Bolio bred to Ch Tonka's littermate sister, and the bottom side was once again produced by Bull Boy Bob's sister Slick, this time bred to a pure Maloney dog.

Therefore, you can clearly see Ch Dynomite is essentially 2/3rds Chinaman, 1/3 Bolio blood ... "in general" ... but, more specifically, the Bolio blood is made up of BBB's sister Slick all through that pedigree, either bred to Commander Whitehead or Keno (and even Commander Whitehead came from essentially the same foundation).

From there, you have to ask yourself what Dynomite dogs are you talking about now, because some of them suck and some of them are fantastic. I could go on, but in order to really understand where you want to go, you have to really understand where you came from, and if the specific dogs you're talking about are even worth breeding. Find out their strengths, their weaknesses, the overall strengths/weaknesses in the litter each dog came from, etc.

The more you know all of this, the more sense of direction you will have as a breeder ... while the less you know of all this, the more you will be "swingin' in the dark" with no idea what is going to happen in the breeding.

I know this involves a lot of work and a lot of study, but the dedication to understand all of this is what distinguishes the professional breeder from the amateur.

Good luck,

Jack

[Oregonbulldog]

Thanks for the reply. I'm learning a lot here.

[Officially Retired]

Well, I hope so. There are a lot of good articles on here already, especially up at the top sticky, but there have been some really good discussions as well.

At the end of the day, individual selection is the key. While there are "general tendencies" within bloodlines, because not every individual has them (or can produce them), ultimately it pays to really know the individuals of whatever line you're talking about.

I have been breeding my own bloodline for over 20 years. I know what my own dogs can do, but there is still a wide disparity of individual talents within my own line, and on my own yard. If someone says they have "a Vise-Grip dog," even I (as the founder and breeder of Poncho and damned near all of the important dogs off of Poncho) would still ask the question of which dog are you talking about? So if this question is still vital to my own understanding of the potential of a dog within my own line, I can promise you it is also a vital question for you to investigate when talking about dogs of "someone else's" line.

Again, this is not a short "bubble-gum" answer like you're going to get on most boards, or from most people, but it is absolutely the truth.

Individual selection is everything, it's not just about "crossing lines" ...

Jack

[Oregonbulldog]

Cool reply... I'll remember that..

[Menard]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/pictures/422150.jpg (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=422150)
What line would u call her

[Officially Retired]

What line would u call her

I wouldn't call her a member of any line at all, just a mix of several lines (and most of those weren't very tightly bred either).

Jack

[Menard]

In that case we will line breed her and stat our line

[Officially Retired]

If you like her well enough, and if she has truly superior abilities in some respect(s), then that is exactly what you should do: build a line on her.

However, if she is just a so-so animal, then you would be wasting your time.

Good luck,

Jack

[Menard]

She is an excellent dog with a very high motor and we bread her to her son who is actually a grand son of her littermate brother and this lil dude loves to work just need to find good people down here to start showing them thanks for your honest input

[Officially Retired]

Sure thing and good luck with your goals :)

[R2L]

where did you get the dog.

[Menard]

Rellik kennels

[R2L]

edit: oh my bad.. i didnt know i could click the picture. thought u didnt know how the dog was bred at all... lol

a very high motor..... what do you mean by that?

[Menard]

Alaways goes with every thing she got loves to work

[inkdogg]

Again, this is not a short "bubble-gum" answer like you're going to get on most boards, or from most people, but it is absolutely the truth

Jack

Thats wat i love about dis site...

[Abe]

Thats wat i love about dis site...

+1

[Officially Retired]

:D

[STONEWALL]

That is true Jack, I doubt if the Patrick dogs of today could hold up with the best out there. Over twenty years ago I bred my non Patrick bitches to Patrick studs and I bought dogs from Pat. The dogs that I bought weren't as good as my homebreds. Long story made short, I built my line around my homebreds.

[Officially Retired]

Me too :)

[thefoodchain]

Great points, it is correct to say that P.Patrick dogs have played a role in the history of our breed. I must add that the blood is not as potent as it once was coming from his yard. And now after them NUTS eliminated a great majority of his dogs and puppies for that matter. However them cats at Imperios kennels are have a good amount of success with the blood. And Ca Jack is correct by adding the blood to Chinaman/Frisco blood is more like back to the future, without the De Lorean(did I spell that right?)

[apeman]

bump up for 2020...

[VIKENNELS]

love my old girl and she can throw them looking for male http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=8892

[EWO]

Well bred female. Digging the Rick Rude top and bottom. Had a number of dogs off of Patrick's Kasai (Rick Rude/Toothless Jack) Good family of dogs.

EWO

[bigpopdog]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_dogs_profile.php?dog_id=19466

[VIKENNELS]

you got any patrick dogs or bolio dogs

[STA8541]

I was looking for an earlier post here, but couldn't find it. I went pretty deep into how to read a pedigree, because most people read them wrong.

For example, you are looking at things too broadly (Garner x Patrick). Those are men, not dogs. I didn't say much yesterday, because I was busy, but the truth is both men have bred dogs of various different bloodlines, both men have also owned THOUSANDS of dogs over the decades, so to speak of "their blood" really is meaningless at this point. Which dogs are you talking about therefore becomes a more meaningful way to view things.

Narrowing things down, since you mentioned Ch Dynomite (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=261716), you are essentially talking about a "Chinaman/Bolio" cross, but even that is too general. If you look at the 3rd generation in that ped, Hobb's Tuffy (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=400) is off of the super-heavy-Bolio stud Commander Whitehead bred to Bull Boy Bob's sister Slick. If you look at Commander Whitehead's pedigree, you will see his mama is off of Bolio bred to Pretty Girl, who was a sister to Chen Leng and Ch Princess, both of whom were bred near-identical to BBB and Slick. (Slick was off of Bolio/Tuffy, Pretty Girl was off of Bolio x Tuffy's mother Faith.) If you drop down a notch, there Slick is once again as the mama to Romero's China Girl, so these same truths repeat.

If you drop down 2 more notches there Chinaman is getting bred to another bitch from Patrick, this time Payne's Ch Black Annie (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=584). Annie was sired by Idi Amin, a son of Bolio bred to Ch Tonka's littermate sister, and the bottom side was once again produced by Bull Boy Bob's sister Slick, this time bred to a pure Maloney dog.

Therefore, you can clearly see Ch Dynomite is essentially 2/3rds Chinaman, 1/3 Bolio blood ... "in general" ... but, more specifically, the Bolio blood is made up of BBB's sister Slick all through that pedigree, either bred to Commander Whitehead or Keno (and even Commander Whitehead came from essentially the same foundation).

From there, you have to ask yourself what Dynomite dogs are you talking about now, because some of them suck and some of them are fantastic. I could go on, but in order to really understand where you want to go, you have to really understand where you came from, and if the specific dogs you're talking about are even worth breeding. Find out their strengths, their weaknesses, the overall strengths/weaknesses in the litter each dog came from, etc.

The more you know all of this, the more sense of direction you will have as a breeder ... while the less you know of all this, the more you will be "swingin' in the dark" with no idea what is going to happen in the breeding.

I know this involves a lot of work and a lot of study, but the dedication to understand all of this is what distinguishes the professional breeder from the amateur.

Good luck,

Jack

This is pure gold.