Brother/Sister Breeding

[OGDOGG]

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=428242
http://i.imgur.com/mLbkF.jpg
Got this done yesterday. I've never done a litter mates breeding before but I heard when this is done, it could bring out the flaws from both the sire and dame. I am expecting smaller dogs, and dogs with no talent. What else should I expect from this breeding?

[R2L]

2nd time in a row i see. Maybe you should have asked yourself before sticking.

[OGDOGG]

I don't understand your comment R2L please elaborate.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I think R2L is implying that you should know what to expect since you've done this once before. The way you describe your expectations, I wouldn't make the breeding. I may be missing something though.

Best of luck to you with the litter.

[R2L]

No i meant. Id rather ask what to expect before actually breeding the dogs instead of after
Forget about the 2nd time in a row thing, my mistake.

Good luck with them.

[OGDOGG]

I think R2L is implying that you should know what to expect since you've done this once before. The way you describe your expectations, I wouldn't make the breeding. I may be missing something though.
Is that what he really meant? Or is that what you're assuming? I will give him the benefit of the doubt and have him explain why he gave that comment. I guess some people can't read. Or better yet think someone is a lair.

Best of luck to you with the litter.
Thankyou

[OGDOGG]

No i meant. Id rather ask what to expect before actually breeding the dogs instead of after
Forget about the 2nd time in a row thing, my mistake.
It's all good. The breeding was planned the day they were proven as bulldogs so there's no stopping it now. Like I had said, I expect those traits in their offspring and if anyone with experience had other problems other than what I mentioned please feel free to comment.

Good luck with them. thankyou

[Officially Retired]

I personally wouldn't do a breeding if I "expected" there to be no ability.

I don't know the exact traits of the dogs in question, since I last saw them as pups.

However, given the pedigree, and my knowledge of the dogs immediately behind them, I think your expectations are perhaps a bit off as there are plenty of extremely-high-ability dogs "right there."

Jack

[OGDOGG]

I personally wouldn't do a breeding if I "expected" there to be no ability.

I don't know the exact traits of the dogs in question, since I last saw them as pups.

However, given the pedigree, and my knowledge of the dogs immediately behind them, I think your expectations are perhaps a bit off as there are plenty of extremely-high-ability dogs "right there."

Jack
I know they have abilities Jack and can produce the same. Both SuperStar and Little Secret have above average mouth, speed, and smarts. The only flaw Secret has is her wind is not too good, but SuperStar's is very good. When I said I expect no ability, it meant if that trait pops up(due to the genes being too tight)I won't be surprise that it did. That's why i said I'm expecting it. Those expectations are the worst and not the highs(which I haven't even mentioned in my other posts) like I said, I had never done a litter mate breeding before and wanted to know what the flaws it could produce.

[OGDOGG]

I also would like to add that these pups are NOT for sale. The ones with defects( if any) will be cull. Only the strong survive and the weak got to go.

[OGDOGG]

SuperStar is a tremendous little bull dog. He was started around 8 month old. He has a high prey drive, but he is very calm and relaxed dog. He is the type of dog who walk around with his head held high always trying to dominate the yard and think he's the boss. The times he was shown in school, he showed that he had mouth, defensive skills(nose surgeon), and a driven offense(emotional)that he's coming for you and you're gonna die type of drive.
Little Secret has high prey drive and a very intense dog. In school she showed that she's an ear suckler who love to punish the head. She's the quickest dog I ever saw because she made my champion bitch
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=371490
look kinda slow, while barely got hurt. Ch Blonka will usually finish off a dog in short order (:30),even in her lost. But Little Secret had gone past Ch Blonka's ability to finish, barely getting touched. So I say she has high abilities. Those are the traits they possess. They are very Smart in and outside the box.

[Officially Retired]

Well, basically, when you inbreed you intensify traits. Some of those traits can be negative, while others will be positive. The acid test of genetic strength is to be able to inbreed and get match ability.

When I inbred Poncho to Missy (my only brother/sister breeding), of the pups who lived 1 was an average, game dog, 1 was a bum, and 1 was a cold dog, while there was 1 ACE untouchable bitch. I should have kept that one and brought her into the program, but I sold her. All of them were very tough and very hard to hurt.

Everytime I have bred Silverback back to his daughters, I have gotten fantastic dogs. Every double-bred Silverback dog I know of is above average.

Other than a probable small size, I think some of these pups stand to be excellent.

Jack

[OGDOGG]

Thanks for your input Jack. This method of breeding must be the least desirable for you since you haven't done one ever since Poncho/Missy? The one trait I really hope to get is bigger size, although that would be a slim chance.
And I already know majority of the pups are going to be intense and extremely hot. I remember the week after I picked them up in Georgia, they were two little intense pups around 7-8 week old and already working the hide and running on The Red River Curly. Just knowing they were born impeccably healthy and growing up eating nothing but good raw food, I can't imagine them throwing nothing but themselves. But if not, at least I gave them a chance to intensify their traits.

[OGDOGG]

:Dhttp://i.imgur.com/bu1Cx.jpg

[Nash]

:cheers:

[OGDOGG]

There's no celebration over here just yet. That bitch Is the worst mom I know of. Her first litter was an accidental breeding and she didn't take care of them. All died except for one. That one was culled due to poor health(always throwing up, and messed up bite)
Her second litter, she had 9, all died except for one. That one was also culled(too small, and messed up bite) I don't know why she spitting out lower k9 going in instead of out, when all the offsprings I got off SilverBack has perfect or near perfect Bite(scissor bite)This time my partner thinks he got it though. He said he watched the 20 yrs of breeding secrets like 10x, and followed up with all the meds. We even got some syringe with colostrum in it from Kv vet.

[Officially Retired]

Secret Star was a shitty mother and would kill her pups if I didn't watch her 24/7.

I don't understand what is wrong with their mouths, could be a mineral deficiency or imbalance(??).

I lived in GA once, and the water there caused all my pups to be born defective ... and after I switched to bottled water all problems disappeared.

Jack

[OGDOGG]

I don't know what the problem is either. Her first pup was raised in the next state from here and her last pup was raised here with me and both end up with the same problem.( bottom k9 curving inward) i had 3 litter here drinking the same water and the other two litter was fine. Other than that they had perfect scissor bite. She definitely has her moms gene. Heartless bitch.

[redmistkennel]

Please keep us posted on how they turn out. I did a brother sister breeding off my garner dogs and pups looked great and had to be seperated by 8 weeks. I kept 1 of them and she caught parvo and died. My expartner kept the other 5 and I never heard how they turned out as adults.

[Officially Retired]

I don't know what the problem is either. Her first pup was raised in the next state from here and her last pup was raised here with me and both end up with the same problem.( bottom k9 curving inward) i had 3 litter here drinking the same water and the other two litter was fine. Other than that they had perfect scissor bite. She definitely has her moms gene. Heartless bitch.

I bred Secret Star (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=5380) (U-Nhan-Rha x Brick House) to her uncle Icon (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_profile.php?dog_id=3887), and she had 4 absolutely spectacular pups. Couldn't be healthier or better-looking lil pups ...



http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/pics/breeding_000057_01.jpg?383743
Icon x Secret Star (http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum/bulldog_breedingprofile.php?breeding_id=57)


The first sign of trouble was when Secret Star dropped her pups all about her pen, and tried to avoid contact with them at all; she had absolutely no maternal instinct whatsoever. This was a surprise to me because her mama Brick House is a great mother, as was Jezebel (as U-Nhan-Rha's sister Twilight). So I couldn't figure out why SS was such a shitty mama. Anyway, I placed SS and her pups in a crate, to "force" her to be with them, and she nursed them reluctantly for 3 weeks ... and then one day I came come to an absolute slaughter: she had attacked all of her pups and just massacred them: their skulls were all factured in a million pieces like egg shells.

I won't say what I did to Secret Star, because it wasn't pretty, but I sure wanted to make a "lasting impression" on her that such behavior was not to be tolerated. Her next breeding, to Silverback, she only had 1 pup, and I had to hand-raise it because she wanted to kill it as it was coming out of her. I bred her to Silverback again, and this time she had 9 pups, and after a few beatings (and me keeping her and her pups next to me 24/7), she raised them all to weaning age, which produced the pair you have.

If there is any mandibular mal-development, it has to be coming from her (even though she is basically okay), because Silverback has a very broad, powerful jaw whereas hers is a bit on the narrow side. Your pups also "pulled" from her side of the pedigree, appearance- and physique-wise. I am not sure I would have necessarily culled young pups, because they can develop and change as they get old (plus, you never know if they're talented and game, inspite of a handicap), so there are a lot of assumptions made through such decisions, but if this happened twice, then I wouldn't bother repeating it again.

Anyway, just a little 411 ...

Jack

[OGDOGG]

Please keep us posted on how they turn out. I did a brother sister breeding off my garner dogs and pups looked great and had to be seperated by 8 weeks. I kept 1 of them and she caught parvo and died. My expartner kept the other 5 and I never heard how they turned out as adults.
I will keep y'all posted on this breeding. I truely believe this will be one of the most important breeding of my program. I know how it goes, bad things seems to happen to the good ones and you just have to learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

[OGDOGG]

Wow! Thank you for the info. Now i understand why SS and LS are the way they are. It's good that they are loyal to us but at the same time, it's a pain in the behind just to make more of them.

[Officially Retired]

Yeah, I would breed to a heavy-Silverback dog in influence, not just on paper, or maybe make a straight outcross.

[OGDOGG]

http://i.imgur.com/ljXnC.jpg
4 males 2 females

[OGDOGG]

Little Secret is doing great with this litter so far. Sad to say the runt died a few days after birth. But the rest are healthy and she actually care about them and taking very good care of them. I also remember how Secret's mom killed her litter around three week old. So I told my partner to listen carefully for growls since the pups are getting stronger and sucking harder. Just to be on the safe side though im going to his place next week and get mine when they're 3 week old.

[OGDOGG]

Yeah, I would breed to a heavy-Silverback dog in influence, not just on paper, or maybe make a straight outcross.
This is a plan I came up with and hopefully it'll work.
These will be my foundation dogs WHITE TIGER'S SECRET WEAPON (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=428242)
Then I'll create this WHITE TIGER'S QB (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=417640)
And this CH ICEPICK 3X (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Pedigrees&file=printPedigree&dog_id=431859)
Breed the Ch Blonka dogs to each other only and the Ch IcePick dogs to itself. Then when each line needs to cross, I'll cross it back to the base or foundation. This is just a plan and every dog that I plan on using has to be thoroughly checked.

[AmberLamps]

Can you make those peds public please ?

[OGDOGG]

Can you make those peds public please ?
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=428242
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=417640
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=431859

[OGDOGG]

http://i.imgur.com/nVe4C.jpg:D
Secret Weapons

[OGDOGG]

http://i.imgur.com/wb7VE.jpg
This lil guy starting fights already
http://i.imgur.com/aI8rg.jpg
This lil guy kicks dirt after he poops
http://i.imgur.com/0gufJ.jpg
This gyp will bite anything
http://i.imgur.com/nu1no.jpg
This gyp bite everything too