Question about Johnston's Goofy

I know that Bolio went into Huff's Rowdy, a 2xw, for his first & only contract match, & that Rowdy died afterward. I have recently learned that Huff's Rowdy sired Johnston's Goofy who was, by all accounts, a fabulous dog. My question to any breeders or former breeders of these animals is: is it normal to breed a dog during his match career? I did not know that was ever done. I thought you matched the dog first, until either his gameness was known or you went as far w/him as you thought he could go (trying for the Champion title, Grand Champion, etc.). And then, only after his matching days were over, was he put out to stud.

Please excuse the stupidity if this is a dumb question, but I was curious if it was ever done. I can't think of any other way how Rowdy could be Goofy's sire & yet wind up dead after a match. Aside from it being 2 different "Rowdy" dogs, but I'm pretty sure Bolio licked Huff's Rowdy, who is the listed sire of Goofy.

Both dogs on top of the european producer list lost their only match
At both shows , straight after the show their respective owners said who want's this dog for free

Ditto STA8541, Sometimes for the good or the bad. Male and even bitch dogs have been bred during their contract careers. Even some quitting or controversial dogs have even had their names changed and still bred. If you had all those older dog magazine's you would see a lot of dogs that are in most pedigrees today that stood the line for one reason or the other.

Before I name a few, I will name some in my own dogs line up. First was Mayfield's Snake, who after I had a litter off Snake. Was told in Snake's third match, while literally putting the coup de grace on a down dog just turned lose and ran from the dog and rowdy, noisy crowd.

For the younger dog men today and not making excuses for that Snake dog. To play it safe, be very aware of a sneaky little device called a Dog Stopper or Stop Attack Dog Siren device. We used them along with red pepper mace, when I worked for the telephone company. Have stopped a serious charging Rottweiler with one of those sirens. Will put their head in the ground, that Rottweiler looked like he hit a brick wall. The owner got pissed with me, cause he perceived I had hurt his dog. Told the owner, be glad the dog siren worked, the mace was coming out next. Then praying and running, all at the same time. LOL

A dog can hear this sound contraption, but humans cannot and is easily concealed in the hand. Have seen and heard of known rough winning dogs on top all the way, finishing off the other dog. Just up and turn loose and run away. This usually is heard of when it is a big money event. Like that fellow that I knew that took out a second mortgage on his house and bet all the money. I might add that poor fellow had a family and took his life a week later from that lose. If that devise was used, that person involved has that man's blood on his hands to this day. Notice I said IF. I find that to be a very strange turn around of events. Most dogs standing on top on all four feet, that are winning whether a Hard biting Cur or Hard biting Game dog will not just up and run away. Not even rank cur yard dogs do that while fighting for dominance. Just,IMHO.

Back on subject, yet two years later got the best match performing bitches I ever owned off the Snake dog. The males even losing good matches were so so compared to those bitches out of that litter. Don up and sold Snake,I and Truett tried to relocate the Snake dog, new owner and dog vanished to be never heard of again. I wanted two or three more litters like that.

Then I have later in V.J.'s dogs the infamous dog Harley I bred up, that BHoss (Ben) rants about on the on lines pedigree site. Then there is Bully Son, Bully Son Jr, Boudreaux's Scrub, the A. Brewer's Snooty dog, J. Crenshaw's Rascal stood the line as a young dog in it's first hard fought match. Rebel Kennels bred from some cull dogs of J. Crenshaw's stock and got some good match dogs.

There was the controversial Snakeman's Pedro dog? Sadly for every good dog we see in these dog pedigrees there will be many controversial dogs shown as well. Why ProjectX was beating on a dead mule over the Boudreaux Blind Billy birth date issue.

This is now hearsay, since I no longer have my magazines, but I know it was reported in the SDJ. A certain known dog that today is in some pedigrees, lost it's match when it quit or jumped the pit. Jack allowed the dog's name in the write up to be changed to the name Spot. V.J. later asked him why? The reply was that dog man does a lot of advertising in my magazine. LOL

One thing I had to learn was when I or who ever points the finger at other dog men's dog yards. I understand we may have to defend ourselves if said person rants on and on ignoring the defective dogs in their own dog yard. That there are four fingers pointing back at yourself. What goes around usually comes around. A older dog man told me one time that the day, another person wishes to start paying half my dog food bill and Veterinarian bills etc. Help clean up these dog runs daily. They can have a say in what I do or do not do with my dogs. Until, these dogs are mine to do what I wish with them. Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bulldoghistorian

Both dogs on top of the european producer list lost their only match
At both shows , straight after the show their respective owners said who want's this dog for free

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Got it, thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CYJ

Ditto STA8541, Sometimes for the good or the bad. Male and even bitch dogs have been bred during their contract careers. Even some quitting or controversial dogs have even had their names changed and still bred. If you had all those older dog magazine's you would see a lot of dogs that are in most pedigrees today that stood the line for one reason or the other.

Before I name a few, I will name some in my own dogs line up. First was Mayfield's Snake, who after I had a litter off Snake. Was told in Snake's third match, while literally putting the coup de grace on a down dog just turned lose and ran from the dog and rowdy, noisy crowd.

For the younger dog men today and not making excuses for that Snake dog. To play it safe, be very aware of a sneaky little device called a Dog Stopper or Stop Attack Dog Siren device. We used them along with red pepper mace, when I worked for the telephone company. Have stopped a serious charging Rottweiler with one of those sirens. Will put their head in the ground, that Rottweiler looked like he hit a brick wall. The owner got pissed with me, cause he perceived I had hurt his dog. Told the owner, be glad the dog siren worked, the mace was coming out next. Then praying and running, all at the same time. LOL

A dog can hear this sound contraption, but humans cannot and is easily concealed in the hand. Have seen and heard of known rough winning dogs on top all the way, finishing off the other dog. Just up and turn loose and run away. This usually is heard of when it is a big money event. Like that fellow that I knew that took out a second mortgage on his house and bet all the money. I might add that poor fellow had a family and took his life a week later from that lose. If that devise was used, that person involved has that man's blood on his hands to this day. Notice I said IF. I find that to be a very strange turn around of events. Most dogs standing on top on all four feet, that are winning whether a Hard biting Cur or Hard biting Game dog will not just up and run away. Not even rank cur yard dogs do that while fighting for dominance. Just,IMHO.

Back on subject, yet two years later got the best match performing bitches I ever owned off the Snake dog. The males even losing good matches were so so compared to those bitches out of that litter. Don up and sold Snake,I and Truett tried to relocate the Snake dog, new owner and dog vanished to be never heard of again. I wanted two or three more litters like that.

Then I have later in V.J.'s dogs the infamous dog Harley I bred up, that BHoss (Ben) rants about on the on lines pedigree site. Then there is Bully Son, Bully Son Jr, Boudreaux's Scrub, the A. Brewer's Snooty dog, J. Crenshaw's Rascal stood the line as a young dog in it's first hard fought match. Rebel Kennels bred from some cull dogs of J. Crenshaw's stock and got some good match dogs.

There was the controversial Snakeman's Pedro dog? Sadly for every good dog we see in these dog pedigrees there will be many controversial dogs shown as well. Why ProjectX was beating on a dead mule over the Boudreaux Blind Billy birth date issue.

This is now hearsay, since I no longer have my magazines, but I know it was reported in the SDJ. A certain known dog that today is in some pedigrees, lost it's match when it quit or jumped the pit. Jack allowed the dog's name in the write up to be changed to the name Spot. V.J. later asked him why? The reply was that dog man does a lot of advertising in my magazine. LOL

One thing I had to learn was when I or who ever points the finger at other dog men's dog yards. I understand we may have to defend ourselves if said person rants on and on ignoring the defective dogs in their own dog yard. That there are four fingers pointing back at yourself. What goes around usually comes around. A older dog man told me one time that the day, another person wishes to start paying half my dog food bill and Veterinarian bills etc. Help clean up these dog runs daily. They can have a say in what I do or do not do with my dogs. Until, these dogs are mine to do what I wish with them. Cheers

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Thank you for your extensive & detailed response. I never even heard of that dog stopper siren, that's incredible. I love it when an owner who can't or won't control his dog gets mad at YOU for defending yourself! Classic. I would have told him it could've been my sidearm that stopped his mutt, but that's just me. And I totally agree that a dog that is winning all the way should not be jumping the wall. Very strange. I have heard it said that cheating in contests is counterproductive as you are trying to find out which is the more game animal & cheating robs you of that knowledge. But that sounds more like a breeder's perspective (& perhaps a naive one at that). I'm assuming it is done by the handlers, as you say, for the $ they collect from their winning bets plus the contract purse. I think it sucks that some people feel the need to cheat. The game is tough enough as it is w/out that nonsense.

I guess as to breeding culls & dogs standing the line & etc., whatever goes into gameness, genetically, can get rescrambled in a positive way w/certain breedings, at least sometimes. I really can't figure it out! I would have a hugely hard time breeding a dog that did that, but that doesn't mean you can't get good results now & then. Obviously, it happens.

What was controversial about Snakeman's Pedro? Was he labeled a front-running cur or something? I only ever heard he was a mighty fine dog; perhaps now I'M being the naive one! I do know there are some controversial dogs, especially ones that are deemed great. Going Light Barney leaps to mind, but there are many. You hear all kinds of stories you can hardly get to the end of trying to untangle them! I saw an article on Panama Red that swore up & down there were all kinds of shenanigans w/that dog, for example. And I had no idea somebody tried to falsify Blind Billy's birth date. I need to get up to speed, obviously, I'm way behind the curve here!

There are always going to be a good percentage of defective dogs in everybody's yard; I have no idea why anyone would try to point the finger about that. Just breed your own dogs & let the matches tell the story of how well you are doing. I know it can get irritating listening to some fella pop off all the time. Totally agree w/you: what goes around, comes around. Some people call it karma, others the universe restoring the balance. Me? I call it divine justice. Goes on long enough, you usually see folks like that get their comeuppance, in my experience. Thanks again for your response.

Ditto Sta8541. I believe most of what was said about the Pedro dog was in J. Crenshaw's book. May have been also in the SDJ. One argument was that all or some of the matches were faked by T. Davis (Snakeman). Tar Heel Matt and Fat Bill would be more up to date on that.

Another rumor on the Panama Red dog was that the V. Jackson Hank and Panama Red were full sibling brothers. The argument Project X was having was the birth dates of Tudor's Dibo and Blind Billy. That Blind Billy's birth date was before Tudor's Dibo according to a phone conversation with D. Mayfield and F. Boudreaux. Tudor bred Dibo for awhile under the registered name Tudor's Runt. There was a actual Tudor's Runt, so some got dogs off Runt and some got dogs off Dibo. From what I was told. LOL

I saw on the other site a tale supposedly told by Mr. Lonzo Pratt himself that the Jocko/Argo/Apples litter were 100% his breeding not the V. Jackson Hank dog. I do know that Mr. Chavis did have one or two Lonzo Pratt dogs. One called Tarzan. Grady Cummings told me and J. Spruill at Grady's home that he took Mr. Chavis to visit Mr. Pratt. At the time do not remember if he said if Mr. Chavis bought some dogs.

For as that dog siren, would not be the handler using it, but someone in the crowd down near the dogs. To direct it at the top dog. When the dog game quit using good qualified referees and talking to the spectators before hand. Some last dog shows I saw, became nothing more than crazy, screaming, sports events. Someone miles away on a dark quite night could hear the whole event. Johnny Law soon on the way. Was what happen at that last Termite match. The one I spent a long night hiding in a Alligator Swamp, almost falling into a two story deep Canal. Cheers

Faked matches? Wow. I guess 9 wins is a bit much to swallow. Not that it isn't possible, it surely is, but if there isn't any verification of some of them I suppose a flag might go up. I wonder how many were faked, if any? All of them? Amazing. Here I am thinking Pedro is one of the all time greats! You can see the vast depth of my dog knowledge, I'm sure! I feel like an idiot!

I had never heard of the dog called Tudor's Runt, nor that Tudor bred Dibo under that name. This is what I meant when I said game dogs are a mystery Sherlock Holmes could hardly get to the end of! That Panama Red article was by Bill Rushin. That's also interesting about Mr. Chavis & Mr. Pratt, thank you for sharing that.

And that makes sense that when the game stopped using qualified referees cheating became more pronounced. I'm w/Jack on this & have been since before I knew Jack: the game could use some form of regulation; it doesn't need to be legislated against. That way we can get qualified people in there who know what they're doing. Will there still be cheating? Sure; there is in prizefighting, right? But you can bet it's a lot less than it was in the days gone by when they had to hold secret bouts in warehouses & on river barges hoping not to get busted. Not to mention all the hollering & screaming you're talking about, that's awful! So much for the dignity of the noble canine. You were at the last Termite match? Ducking & dodging through a swamp at night?! Man alive...that is some story! I am glad you made it home in one piece, sir. Wow.

The story with Pedro was Crenshaw rolled him and he wasn't nothing special then sold him I believe its in Crenshaws book have to dig it out and look, any new owner rolled or matched him can't remember again nothing special. Then Pedro got heart worm and was sold again and next thing ya know Gr.CH Lol. That s the short version I'll see if I can find a link to the story.

Thank you very much, sir, I appreciate the post. Maybe he was just a late bloomer? I know some dogs take longer than others to get going. Which doesn't mean the stuff about Pedro can't be made up, obviously.

A lot of things are made up for various reasons. CH.Deep Throat Dolly, B Line kennels ect....Believe what you see.