DEBATE ON DEX / SOLU-DELTA / CORTICO-STEROIDS

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Originally Posted by Nut

no i did not. 1 ml is for anti swelling purposes.

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1 ml of dex is not a "recommended dose" anywhere.

Drugs are actually dosed in mg/kg or mg/lb ... based on WEIGHT.

For example, you could have a 28 lb bitch, or a 55 lb male, and the dose would be double for the latter ... half for the former ... and the fact that you can't comprehend this **is** your error, right there.

Saying you "give 1 ml of dex" for all swelling, to all dogs, regardless of weight (or trauma) is simply incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Nut

that range is the range for anti shock purposes. 0,5 mg is not the dose for anti swelling. just told u that 0,15mg for a kg so around 0,07 per lb
here is where i stopped reading your post and will stop responding to you. im interested to read what people with practical experience have to say.

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The fact that you "stop reading" so easily is your other problem.

Everything Doc and I have written in the article on treating shock *IS* correct ... while everything you have said has nothing to do with shock, and every a$$umption you have made has been wrong ... reflecting that (again) you haven't read (or understood) what's been posted.

Please cite references for any negation to what I have said ... I will be citing mine.

Thanks,

Jack

I was referring to 42 lbs dog like you mentioned with the advised dosage in your article. U make the assumption that i think there is 1 dosage for all size dogs.

Frosty or Jack can either of you clear one thing up for me here I'm trying to understand, is solo medrol only useful as an anti shock drug if givin intravenously ?? Otherwise it's only an anti inflametry?? Or have I picked that up wrong.

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Originally Posted by CA Jack

I am going to get, and post, actual pharmacological references in a bit ...

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Better not be a reference of a none beat up, hydrated dog with good working organs.

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Originally Posted by Nut

Better not be a reference of a none beat up, hydrated dog with good working organs.

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You'd better shut up, is what you need to do.

No "perfectly healthy" animal needs these drugs, genius.

Every animal that needs its life saved with anti-shock therapy is dying and fubarred by default.

You're not trying to help, you're just being an ass.

Seriously, just shut up with your attitude, and that is my last waring.

Sorry if this is off topic, but which is preferred of the 2.
Azium or biodipirona?

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Originally Posted by Macker

Frosty or Jack can either of you clear one thing up for me here I'm trying to understand, is solo medrol only useful as an anti shock drug if givin intravenously ?? Otherwise it's only an anti inflametry?? Or have I picked that up wrong.

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You can give either IM ... but it is nowhere near as fast or as effective.

Will be compiling some data that I hope is useful.

Jack

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Originally Posted by CRISIS

Sorry if this is off topic, but which is preferred of the 2.
Azium or biodipirona?

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There is no "better" actually. (And, honestly, I have never heard of Biodipirona.)

There is simply selecting the right one for the job.

If you need a fast-action, the "sodium succinates" (or sodium phosphates) are faster-acting ... but dissipate quicker.

Once stabilized, the longer-lasting drugs can be used.

So it really depends on the individual case before you ...

♦ Dexamethasone (aka: Dex)
♦ Dexamethasone sodium phosphate (aka: Azuim),
♦ Prednisolone sodium succinate (aka: Solu-Delta Cortef)
♦ Methylprednisolone sodium succinate (aka: Solu-Medrol).


The sodium succinates (or phosphates) are salts ... that assist with delivery and assimilation of the drugs.

They are preferable for "immediate delivery" to reverse a life-or-death situation hanging by a string, but they are removed from the system more readily.

When I said 10x the dose, I misread the original message sent to me, so that's my bad in regards to that statement.

I've personally never seen OR heard of anyone using Solu Medrol for any anti-shock therapy. Considering it also comes in 125mg bottles, what difference does it make. If it were the only thing I had to use, and I had the correct information, I would use it. I'd rather use it and possibly save the dog as opposed to not using it and the dog dying. I also have some dex that is 10mg/mL. Lower strength med = give more.

The dex dose is a lot higher than a swelling dose because it's a possible LIFE SAVING dose. No one ever suggested to stop giving the dogs fluid. If your dog is needing anti-shock therapy, it is certainly needing fluids. You don't stop giving fluids simply because of the medicine. I have seen both types of Dex used for aftercare for shows. The dogs lived without any issues. I've seen Solu Delta used after shows. Some dogs lived and some didn't due to simply being too far gone. Given my druthers, I'd use Solu Delta also, but if I don't have any, I can simply use what I have on hand. Being in the medical profession, I've seen most of these drugs used for one purpose or another. Some people start off at the highest dose and work their way down. Some start at the lowest and work their way up. That is more based on personal experience and what has worked for someone time and time again. I personally start at the mid way point when it comes to dosages and adjust from there.

Any anti-shock therapy is BEST used IV and not IM. IM should be a last resort not a first one. Learn how to hit veins in your animal. Giving your dog IV fluids, and not sq, will go a lot further in saving your dog. I've seen some dogs pass simply due to not having any fluids to flush their kidneys free of myoglobin.

I would like to add also that I've given 1mL of dex many times, and I've never seen a dog lose 2.2 kilos from 1mL.