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Ditto arsuffi@att.net. That was some excellent insight. Rowell may have been ahead of his times,using a less hassle free way to feed in a keep. The only times I saw him lose a dog show event was from being out pulled by a better dog. Which happens to all that stay in the game long enough. Rowell never lost from his dog having lack of conditioning. Rowell won way more than he ever lost. Rowell was a very private dog man that stayed out of the lime light. He worked dogs not only for himself but others as well. Hear his health is not very well today. He had years back some Carver/Red Boy crossed dogs along with some pure bred Carver dogs.
If one ever reads Don Mayfield's feed keep. It is one long drawn out tedious process. V.J. said heck with all that and simplified that keep a lot with very good results. James Crenshaw spent some time with Don Mayfield also. The biggest difference in Crenshaw's feed keep and V.J.'s feed keep was Crenshaw used more kibble later into the keep to maintain the dogs weight. V.J. kept the kibble at the amount that was used to bring the dog to it's best show weight during the prekeep. V.J. added more chicken necks and chicken backs/Chicken broth to maintain show weight.
Now here is the kicker since many advocate a 100% raw diet. I will not argue that view point being that excellent results have been shown from doing so. It is the cooking destroys this and that I have pondered over. We cooked our Chicken necks and chicken backs in a pressure cooker to also obtain the Chicken broth to boot.
The dogs were worked on the pressure cooked Chicken necks/chicken backs/chicken broth/ with a lesser amount of kibble. The kibble amount would have worked out to about 20% of total diet. There was added supplements like green tripe/ desiccate liver/brewers yeast /Greens/probiotics/Geritol/etc. in moderation. Best I can figure today is that the moderate supplementation replaced anything lost in the cooking process. Should work as well on a top quality cooked canned dog food.
These dogs conditioned by James Crenshaw or V.J. were in excellent shape with bright eyes and gleaming shiny coats. The inner gums were a deep healthy blood red. It appears to me, the old saying of skinning a cat more than one way, still holds true. That cat can be skinned more than one way in the working part of the keep and the feeding part of the keep.
This has never been a lazy man's sport. Even the most diligent have to work hard to say on top. Cheers
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CYJ I truly enjoy every thing you write, I know you don't remember me because it was a lot of years ago, but I met you through three men one was The Professor who had the Ch. Gina bitch and the other two was Eric and Orion who had the Crazy Critter dog if my memory is still good. I remember our conversation you were so polite and patience and gave out good information when nobody was willing to at that time in N.C. Sorry to get off subject I know of another good old timer won't say his name but he went under B. Oreo he was from N.Y. he fed canned dog food and dry and his record was one to be admired. The second time Crenshaw and Kelley saw me on a hunt in KY. Crenshaw pulled me a side and wanted to know how I worked and fed that thirty pound bitch I knew then I was on to something. But my bulldogs got really better after long talks with Bob S. of the S.T.P. combine he was truly a great dog man that stayed behind the curtains, also a friend from down your way later on also gave me very good advice M. Gainey on dogs , breedings, feedings , work but mostly he gave me confidence in my self and in my dogs. Please keep contributing as I look forward most every day to see your posts. Yours in the Game Johnny
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Ditto arsuffi@att.net. Thank you for the nice compliments. Am so glad I have finally found someone who knew Orion and Eric Zetterquest. Have been wanting to know where those two dog men are today. Would not only like to contact them but visit them as well. I never knew what they did with their dogs off that mating of their Crazy Critter dog to my Young's Face bitch. They had a litter bred off my Young's Jake dog to that red/red nose Ed Larson bred bitch. That bitch dog's name was Zetterquest's Booger. Should have taken some of those pups. But already had a yard full of my own. Hope you can tell me if they are still around and how to contact them.
Another young dog man I lost contact with who no longer has any dogs, was Marty Hill. If the Lord willing may see you at the upcoming pig picking. Cheers
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It is funny how much 'being pulled aside' can mean. We went north with the rock chunking dog into a camp that was winning a lot of matches with a lot of good dogs. 4-5-6 guys pooling their resources. These guys were out and about doing dogs for large amounts of money, buying good dogs from whoever had them just ot make the next match.
When we won over a "better dog from a better camp". The winning was awesome but to have one from their camp ask 'how'd you do it?'. It was almost like 'well, I have arrived'. Not as big a deal as winning but moving in that direction.
Then when I gave the rock chunking story it was like I was being coy, holding back, keeping the secrets to myself about working a dog and they wanted to know more and more.
Another time we went to a small show near hear, one set of dogs one for #2 and the other for #3. Great match and good people. Most thought conditioning was the difference. Afterwards we broke the pit down and guys were hanging out talking dogs. In a matter of minutes an older fellow was in a chair and six or eight guys were sitting around him as he talked about working dogs. There was never a better classroom on any college campus anywhere, anytime. The 'students' did not need a recorder or a pen as they were locked in on his every word.
Babbling. The string of night shifts is starting to win. LOL. Good series of posts.
EWO
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First thoughts, as a green DM .Top quality canned dog food to shape your dog for a weight pull competition , or conformation. My thoughts ,how has the dog been feed up till then, has he or she been on top canned or complete raw, if complete raw would
This change, cause a situation. Would the change cause an inner storm. If one uses complete raw,then goes to a top canned label, but needs to add raw or other fats and supplements to balance, this seems like double work, and cost.
Plus,dogs seem to throw up more often ,on a can, and kibble diet. Just my observation. My best
And curious, can someone expound on Brewers yeast.
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Kendall,debitter brewers yeast helps with food digestion,promotes good gut bacteria and fast absorb able b-vitamins. The desiccate liver with/liquid Geritol, or red cell, or sorbitol, builds the blood count. Some dog men use some of these additives, some do not or not at all. I did not care for sticking a dog in its back legs every week with painful iron and B-12 shots.To much needle sticking can make a good calm dog become man shy.
You do a six week to eight week pre keep on said dog. To slowly work it down to weight,get the dog on a worming schedule, adjust dog slowly to any new type feed etc. Give the dog time to tone up and it's feet pads to toughen. The new feed and any supplementation has to be gradually added to prevent any severe diarrhea or dehydration.
It can take years to learn all of this stuff. No one does it all the same way. Don Divine was a top dog conditioner and top race horse conditioner. I was standing with a group of dog men many years back down Florida way. I was listening to Mr. Divine answer questions about feed and conditioning. I remember Mr. Divine saying too properly condition a pit dog, was much harder than conditioning a Race horse.
As you have read from above. No two dogs are alike or will work a tread mill or swing jenny etc. Good dog men learn what works best for any certain dog and they go with that. Know what needs to be done first before entering said dog in a dog show. Always look before you leap. Mr. Armitage believed a match well made was a match half won. Cheers
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A lot of the threads and thread subjects tie together. Most of them boil down to what works for that particular dog. I can go out and buy the best frikkin' slat mill in the world. $2 to $3000, with all the bells and whistles. If my dog will not work that mill it becomes absolutely useless. It has no value to me for that dog. If the next dog works it well then that piece becomes priceless. The value can't be calculated.
Food the same. If a dog is winning on canned food then it is what it is. There may be better plans out there but some do not believe in rocking the boat. Most will make 5 subtle changes as they go, and years from now it looks like a major change was made. Some jump ship to every winning plan that comes by.
I insist my dogs run the table and the carpet mill. Sometimes their resistance out powers my insistance. At that point I have to go plan B.
EWO
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Enjoyed the feed conversations as well.
I like the reactions a few had when the 'use of canned food' was even mentioned. Like it was the absolute worst thing that could happen.
One of the things that it can do as well is mask some other stuff such as greens or supplements, like was said before.
I imagine it is like most anything, the idea is to find how and when it works and then put it to use. A lot like everything else that 'works', someone had to give it a try.
EWO
