It would have been nasty had he had a good set of teeth. I wonder if his ruined mouth played a role in his choice of style n he just mastered it.
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It would have been nasty had he had a good set of teeth. I wonder if his ruined mouth played a role in his choice of style n he just mastered it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Hand
Yeah, he would have been even more horrible than he was, if he had all his teeth :shocked:
As far as his style goes, almost all my dogs are head dogs, actually (it is what I have always bred for).
Icon just happened to be an ace ... teeth or no teeth :)
LOL, I was not exaggerating :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gotap_d
As for how he produced, Wildchild's Hampton (2xW, 1xL), as well as Screaming Icon (1xL), were sired by Icon. Each of these dogs came off of daughters of Icon's sister Brick House. I bred Brick House to Sun Demon, and took two sisters from this breeding and bred them back to Icon.
Hampton was a great head dog who ran into some foul play for #3, and Screaming Icon lost to a Grand Champion, spotting him 2 lb of weight, 9 weeks after he made a crawling game scratch to win in 1:20, also spotting 2 lb of weight. In top professional hands, fresh, and at his best weight, Screaming Icon would have been very tough to beat. He was not an athlete, but he was a powerhouse supreme with a heavy mouth. Turn the muzzle into soup.
Hampton was an ear dog like Icon, while Screaming Icon was a devastating face dog like his granddam (and Icon's sister) Brick House. Screaming Icon was not an athlete, but kind of a big dope like Sun Demon.
Icon died at 4 so it is hard to say how he was as a producer, but every dog in his litter was a badass dog, including his ace brother Toro, and the rock-solid Joe Manco, as well as Tara, so if I would have bred every bitch I had to Icon, and gotten them in good hands, I am 100% sure that alot more of his offspring would have won than would have lost ;)
Jack
Jack, are the silverback dogs this way also? I have a dog who is off a double breed silverback bitch who acts exactly as you describe. If she's in the kennel she jumps up and down, chews her house, climbs the kennel like a monkey. Same thing on a chain. Runs all over her spot and try's to dig to china. One would think she'd destroy the house if she was inside the house. As soon as you let her inside the house she's a different dog. Calm and sits around with the kids as if she's an angel. I have friends who saw her in the house and didn't believe it was the same gyp that was outside. Besides this she's a wonderful dog.
Yes. "The Gorilla" not only looked like a Silverback, but he screamed like a wild ape if he couldn't get what he wanted. HUGE ego ... and a HUGE desire to be with you. The difference with Silverback, though, is he never destroyed anything. Had a full set of perfect teeth even the day he died as an old man. But he would scream and go (pardon the pun) apeshit on his chain ... but in the house was a great animal. Possibly the best house dog I ever had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majunbu
Poncho was a horrible house dog (when I was gone). Would eat his way out of crates, my bedroom, etc. ... all just to get where "I was at" ... he was EXTREMELY LOYAL ... but ... he was born to be on a chain. Only towards the very end of his life, when he was dying, was Poncho suitable to be in the house. But many of his offspring and descendants were truly wonderful house dogs.
Jack
Jack just curious,what made you breed a "cold" dog. i know bolo was off of the two gamest dogs you ever bred and turned out to be cold. what made you still breed him? because i know there is something more to it
Quote:
Originally Posted by bently
If you already know that Bolo was off of two of the gamest dogs I've ever had, then why do you ask me "what made me" breed to their son? You already know the answer :lol:
Despite the dog's being cold, I wanted to satisfy my own curiosity, nothing more. Rather than ask a bunch of questions online about "what to do" with my own dog, like a retard, I make my own decisions as to what to do with my own dogs. Like a big boy. I always like to know, first hand, what I am talking about on the subject of breeding dogs :idea:
Too many people are encumbered by the insecurity of "What will they say if I do X?" ... but I have never been like this. If I feel like doing X I will do X. I don't need "internet approval" of my actions, nor do I care what "other people think" of my decisions. Further, I personally have debunked so many dog myths on my own that I don't even pay attention to what most dogmen think on any subject, since most just repeat the stupidities "they've been told" on the subject of breeding, without having any real breeding knowledge of their own. I had enough breeding knowledge of my own, and enough knowledge of my own line, to be comfortable (and curious) enough to make the decision I made.
The fact is Pup Pup and Super Red were two terrificly-game dogs and I was surprised that Bolo was cold coming out of two dogs like his parents. Pup Pup was also sired by the baddest dog I have ever owned in my life, Stormbringer, and I did not want to lose his genetics with the last living son of his. When they produced Bolo, he (for whatever reason) was a cold dog. Super Red was also off of Stormy's half-sister Red Sonja, and I thought I might still have "an ace" in there somewhere, if I could "re-shuffle the deck" right ...
I later learned that Pup Pup, as game as he was, in general (for whatever reason) threw a lot of cold dogs ... and more curs than what I was used to producing with any other stud I have ever used ... which is something I almost never got from my line. So I was wondering where TF that came from, and figured I could get rid of it with another breeding step.
So I bred Bolo to another daughter of Pup Pup, in P'Cola, to try to double-up on this game dog, in order to see if I could "shake" what I perceived as a bad anomaly out of the "genetic mix" ... and maybe shake back IN an ace level dog ... which can sometimes happen when you "re-shuffle" the genetic deck you have. Nothing more. There have been plenty of well-bred cold stud dogs, that produced awesome, and Bolo was bred down from as game and badass a group of dogs that can be had in our sport.
Also, sometimes an individual dog may not produce that well, as a sire, but he will produce awesome dogs as a grandsire. Pup Pup was bred well enough, and was game enough as an individual, that I decided to see if that were true or not. So I did a double-breeding on him to see if I could straighten things out and not just end things with Bolo.
From what I understand, most of the dogs from that breeding were pretty good, with a supposedly badass male, but (also) with one supposedly cold male yet again. It was neither a great breeding nor a bad breeding. Ultimately, it was just yet another breeding I did that produced mostly pretty good dogs. Unfortunately, the ace quality of Stormbringer had apparently been lost altogether in that gene pool. My experiment achieved only average, pretty good results, but nothing spectacular.
Since "pretty good" is not where I wanted to be as a breeder, I dumped all of them and went in the direction of my overall better stud dogs: Icon, U-Nhan-Rha, and Silverback, ALL of whom proved the ability to produce ace-quality dogs (though Icon's breeding career got cut short).
Hope this answers,
Jack
i have recently decided to change my route. i got rid of all my old stock and starting fresh.
i have a bitch off of bolo and will be taking her to a son of silverback when the time is right to start my yard back up. I wanted to know how the different strains of poncho line peferom. "in other words" how do the SILVERBACK dogs compare to the DUKE NUKEM"U-NHAH-RHA" and STORMBRINGER dogs performance and trait wise?
All of these dogs are primarily head dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by bently
You will get your highest percentages with the U-Nhan-Rha dogs (Silverback dogs are good too). Most Silverback dogs go for the throat, with a rare few truly knowing how to finish.
There are no more Stormbringer dogs, unfortunately, but he was one helluva bulldog. The best I ever had in terms of raw power beyond belief, absolute control of the situation, and the ability to finish absolutely. Yet, ironically, he was the least-consistent producer.
Silverback was more athletic than Stormy, and every bit as much of a finisher, but he made mistakes sometimes (that Stormy never did) and Silverback had only average durability, whereas nothing Stormbringer's size could hurt him. If the other dog was the same size, it almost wasn't even fair, that is how superior Stormy was as a dog. He spotted crazy weight (even against people like Hard Core Kennels), and still absolutely overpowered what was in front of him. It took a 9-lb bigger half-brother to kill an 8-year-old Stormbringer ... and only then because Stormy was the one stuck on the chain ... yet I was still pulling bone fragments out of Poncho Jr's muzzle and upper palate for weeks after he killed the chain-hampered old Stormbringer.
At the same size, and if Stormy was in his prime (and not on the chain_, Stormy could have killed 3 Poncho Jr's ... and Junior was a badass dog ... he was just no ace like Stormy.
U-Nhan-Rha was a rock-solid dog, that wasn't great at anything, but was f***king good at everything. An all around dog, maybe with no finish, but also with no weaknesses. A straight face dog with really good mouth. Not great, but really good mouth. Same with air, brains, durability, etc.
Jack
Where are the folks with this blood now? Are they willing to even part with any?