:deadhorse::deadhorse:Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
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:deadhorse::deadhorse:Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
@Wacc some of my all time favorites had redboy jocko in them which were butkus dog that had bolio in them as well. My female now has Sabre and Big john in her line, so far she's a keeper. I think both of you guys have a great deal of knowledge about the breed being as successful as you 2 are. I hope to soon owe a pup or breed to(rattler) in the future. They'll always be differences that's why we have different bloodlines...jmo
Take it slow ,that is a good cross .Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder98
Here is my input on this beat to death subject. BOTH lines are a great line of dogs. The Bolio-Tombstone blend of dogs crosses great with the Eli line for mouth establishhing a seperate line (Boyles) , and the Redboy-Jocko crossed excellent with Rascal and Honeybunch creating the HArdcore Kennels dogs. Here is my opinion, The best Hollingsworth dog ever as a performer was Gr.Ch.Mayday. he was simply a beast. traveled from Puerto Rico to New York City to South Carolina beating the likes of the Gator Boys, Tant, and Soulman. He was indeed a killing machine. With all respect to Waccamaw, If Big John was as good as Mayday, he certainly didn't travel and beat those big name kennels. That being said....Mayday was half Redboy-Jocko! Indeed he was a Hollingsworth dog, bred by Mr.Hollingsworth himself. That begs the question of ,"If the Hollingsworth line had all it needed, why did he breed to Yellow. In addition to that what other Hollingswoth bitch bred to any dog produced three champions in the same litter?" Its a good question. What I am getting at is that Yellow added value, and Mr.Hollingsworth knew it somehow, and the bulldog world is glad he did. As it pertains to Gameness, I've said before ..both dogs bring it, but I think it's a different kind of gameness. My opinion is that the Bolio-Tombstone dogs are deadgame because of thier stubborness in face of defeat, because of their will and mindset not to lose or be defeated. The Bolio-Tombstone dogs are stubborn sons of bitches. You're not going to make one do anything they dont want to. Their coats are finicky and they are LOUD! Lets just say that the neighbors won't appreciate Gr.Ch.Buck living next door.
The Redboy-Jocko dogs are equally as game, but in "my opinion" it's cause they are just to stupid to quit. It's like a switch flips and they will keep on coming no matter what. Like a chicken with it's head held to the ground. Add to that that my experience with Redboy-Jocko dogs is that they are destructive high strung dogs that will run the chain until they die, destroy their doghouses, uproot tree roots.
Frankly, because of that , If I had to pick one or the other it would be the Hollingsworth line. Smarts trumps Retards. Thank goodness.. I dont have to pick one. Almost all my dogs are half of both. That being said, I own two pure Bolio-Tombstone dogs off Ch.Red Pirate to Miss Blitz. I do not own a pure Redboy-Jocko dog. I got rid of the bitch after the breeding to Bull because she was just too destructive. Even managed to destroy and eat some of a stainless steel bowl. That was the straw that broke the camels back. You guys can choose to go at it repeatedly, but there will be no winners. Gr.Ch.Yellow, Gr.Ch.Rodney, Super Gnat's Boots (4:52) Gr.Ch.john Boy, Ch.Yellowjohn, Ch. Rocko, Ch.Deadlift, and many more cement this bloodlines legacy. Crossed into the jeep or Rascal made Ch.yellowolf, Ch. Redman, Ch.Mystic, Ch. Bozak, Ch.Doogie, Ch.judy, and many more.
The Bolio-Tombstone line has a thousand dogs on it's own including Gr.Ch.buck (ROM) and a thousand Boyles winners. The Boyleslineis Hank x Redbaby. Redbaby is a Bolio dog and they used Bobby Jr. heavily. I dont care about west coast or east coast. to me, that is silly. There are many dogmen on the East Coast like STP and Captain America , Southern Kennels, Havannah Boys, Strictly Business that have done the deed well for many years, but the West Coast has just as many if not more. I guess you can sum it up with "to each their own" It is my opinion that half redboy-jocko and half Bolio-Tombstone is better than either on their own. But thats just my opinion based on my experience. i LOVE the Hollingsworth dogs, but if given the choice to cross it with Eli or Redboy-Jocko, its not even a choice. I believe the Redboy-Jocko dogs are 10x gamer than the Eli dogs, and the Termite strain of Jocko do punch just as hard as an Eli dog.
I will say this, because when we did it, we traveled all over the country. YOU MAKE YOUR NAME TRAVELING AND SPANKING PEOPLE IN THIER BACKYARD. Thats how we did it. More credibility to those that do it like that hunting down the hard competition than those that stay locally. I applaud Mr.Hollingsworth's "idiot savant" decision to breed to Yellow. I love my dogs . I urge both parties of this argument to take the high road and show leadership given our audience.
Best topic ever!!!!!
+1000 I agree and love both lines. I like the two blended together. That's what I decided to do was take the high road rather than hurl disrespect back and forth . Everybody has skeletons in their closet even people who think they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolutionkennels
I agree 110% with what you said and I believe I'm now the one feeding that pure RBJ dog you were speaking of and she is deffinately a hard keeper lmao. I've also just started messing with the bolio stuff and that finicky skin is no joke. That pup off machobuck x blondy is starting to straighten out in the front end I think he's gonna be alright I'll keep you posted. Keep up the good work and hopefully we can get sassy back to you to do that breeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolutionkennels
Creek Bottom
I use to own Sassy's mom Ginger. I sold her to the guy that bred Sassy. Ginger was an easy keeper not much trouble at all.
Huh? Wow, you make up pure BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
Verified by Andy Lewis? Are you kidding me?
Andy was the one who told me that bitch he got from you was "a straight killer" ... and it proved to be nothing but pure, made-up, childlike, wanna-be bullshit.
She's the bitch who couldn't see the better side of 5 minutes with two smaller bitches. It was clear she had never been rolled once and had ZERO pit savvy.
Andy actually flipped out and shit himself when my Pantera decimated his bitch. Andy actually asked for a handle ... against my puppy :lol: ... and I refused.
Then he started screaming, "I want a handle, Goddamnit!!" ... over what a 10 month old puppy was doing to his 1-lb bigger bitch :lol:
And you seek "verification" from a chump like that :rolleyes: :embarrassed:
I told Andy he could pick his POS up any time he wanted, but no way in hell was I going to give his bigger, older bitch "a break" from my puppy :lol:
Sonny, the only time you "showed up" was to roll your 8 lb bigger dog into my smaller one, so don't act like you came over as a collector or that I didn't know you'd be there.
Your skinny ass has never been anything but respectful when I have been right there in front of you, so don't act like you're a thug. Take a gander in the mirror :lol:
You know, I have had just about enough of your bullshit. You're a stupid man with some so-so dogs, and you're a GD liar. Everything you have said on here is pure BS.
You want to talk about bullshit, the fact is you stole Little Jack from Trad.
Little Jack won twice, beat a Champion the first time, then won in 1:58 over some Ch Paladin dog Jacobs has (I think).
Then Trad entrusted the dog to you to breed to (you're wanting more of my blood) ... and you claimed he "got stolen."
I mean, I could go on and on with all of the BS you're full of.
In fact, let's start with the quality of Ch Big John's "wins."
Why don't you explain to your lemmings that one of the "wins" was into your cousin (to whom you gave a discard dog)?
Tell everyone how you gave away a discard dog to a relative, and then you turned around and matched into it with Big John :lol:
What did it go, 5 minutes? And you call that a win? :rolleyes:
That's some quality of opposition, Sonny :embarrassed: :lol:
Hell, I could go on and on with your southern-bred bullshit, but that's enough for now.
LOL, okay, whatever, Sassy quit in 2 minutes, whatever lie you want to tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
I have seen fifty minutes out of a prime Sassy, and there is no way in hell any bitch on earth, her size, could put a dent in that powerhouse dog in an hour, let alone 2 minutes.
Now I can't say what Sassy did over there, but here are the 3 things I distinctly remember about Sassy and her being over there:
1) That she decimated 2 bitches of yours on the face, in fact so badly did she decimate your bitches, that you actually told Weapons of Mass Destruction (EverLast) that you were thinking of running Sassy on a mill, to get her tired enough first, so that she would be "reachable" by your slow, stupid bitches ... since your back-end dogs are tailor-made for my face dogs.
2) The other thing I remember about Sassy was that imbecile cousin of yours, Rivertown Dave, had Sassy and bred her to Yellow John. This idiot leaves Sassy on the chain until the day she's due. Then he comes home late at night and tosses Sassy in the brood pen the very night she's supposed to drop. After she gets tossed into the brood pen, Sassy starts barking and barking all night ... and Dave comes out there and beats the living shit out of her and goes back inside. Sassy starts barking incessantly ... again and again ... and this fucking idiot goes out there and beats the shit out of her again and again ... all night long until the morning time. Well, guess what? It turns out SASSY HAD 2 OF HER PUPS IN THE DIRT THAT NIGHT ... before your fucking idiot cousin came home ... and THAT is why she was barking and barking all night ... SHE WAS SEPARATED FROM HER BABIES AND WANTED TO BE WITH THEM ... and this fucking asshole beats her all night long, over her natural motherly instincts, because he's too stupid to consider this as a possiblity :embarrassed: :angry:
3) After I got Sassy back, she had no muscle tone, and had a chronic vaginal discharge, which required 3 weeks of Baytril to cure.
Now, as far as coffee and water goes, when I bred Screamer to Poncho, I got an all-game litter.
Not a single dog quit in the litter, not a single dog matched off their offspring ever quit.
That is a total of about 15 dogs, with at least 5 going over the 2-hour mark. That's coffee son.
By contrast, when I bred Screamer to Ch Big John, I got 4 curs (2 rank) and 3 game dogs.
Dr Death quit in :12 to Poncho Jr. male (a 9-10 game litter).
Anthrax quit to his half-brother Duke Nukem in :19
Little Big John quit in 1:30 ... which was at least respectable.
Siren Girl beat a 1xW and then a 4xW, and then quit in an hour, which again was respectable
But that's still 4 CURS sonny ... one of which quit to another Screamer dog, sired by Poncho.
There were ONLY 3 game dogs in that litter of 7 to Big John, Sonny (Kulu, Little Jack, and Wichita).
That's water, son.
Yet, when I bred those dogs BACK to Screamer dogs, I got absolute consistency, NO quits, and TWO DEADGAME wins.
So the "coffee" is coming from my dogs ... which is why your dogs are what I immediately got rid of and away from.
More of my blood = higher gameness/win percentage = more coffee.
These are facts.
And BTW, that Siren Girl bitch (Big John x Screamer) was rolled into my Pantera bitch also (Gr Ch Sparky x Screamer), and it was a massacre.
Siren Girl didn't quit on that, and she was a pretty fast and good bitch, but Pantera was a fucken brute, and Siren Girl just did not have the power to deal with her and had to be picked up.
I never needed an outcross, what I needed was SIZE ...Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
And look man, Pretty Boy's gameness was seen in front of TONS of good dogmen, so just shut up on that, okay?
I can put up with debates and arguments, but will NOT put up with straight lies.
The dog was a bum ... I have always said that ... but he damned sure was no cur.
Yeah, okay, you got me on ONE point on ONE discussion. LAST YEAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
I can stand to be wrong, Sonny. I mean, if you recall, I admitted I was wrong there, I conceded JR didn't go into Buck, and I stopped debating.
I didn't call you names. I didn't change the subject. I didn't go on and on about other matters (like you here). When the facts came out, and JR didn't go into Buck, I just said I was wrong. Why don't you have that kind of class?
YOU'RE the imbecile who can't admit you're wrong here. Because you ARE just WRONG that RBJ dogs are "the baddest" ... or that they have "the most kills" ... THEY DON'T.
Yes, I am talking about dog fights as well as matters that happened over 12 years ago, when Victor came onto the board and ran you up a tree. So Big John was 9 or 10 and no teeth, well so was Mayday, retard! As with the 9 year old Haunch, Victor was ready to match his old Mayday dog into your old Big John dog, and you shit yourself and refused. Gr Ch Zukill, a legitimately badass dog, killed 6 win a row with no teeth, why couldn't Big John, if he was as bad as you say he was? Were you afraid he didn't have the gameness of Mayday? Victor was confident in his dog, and said he could come to your back yard! You were running your mouth about Big John "killing" Mayday every day on my forum ... and then suddenly you got your chance ... IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD ... What went wrong, Sonny?
I am a good talker, writer, breeder, and authority on dogs. You are an uneducated redneck, who's not good for much besides hunting in the woods and talking about RBJ dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
I know more about dogs than you will ever touch, so let's just leave it at that.
He lost game in 1:10 to a Champion, that is not something to be embarrassed about.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
He also got his ass kicked by EVERY dog on my yard (Icon, U-Nhan-Rha, etc.), but he never committed a turn in his life.
Actually, you're the one breaking the rules. The rules are to keep things civil and not directly insult others.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
The subject was RBJ dogs, and you made the claim that they "killed the most" and "all the good ones" were RBJ dogs.
I tried to stay on topic and directly challenged these outrageous remarks with FACTS ... with DOG NAMES ... with ACTUAL MATCHES where the best RBJ dogs GOT WHIPPED by Hollingsworth dogs, Jeep dogs, Eli/Carver dogs, etc.
You are the one who came here and called me a "liar" and a "fool."
But you're right on one thing: this is turning into a PedOnline shit-fest, and it's probably better to STICK TO THE TOPIC ... so why don't you try doing that FOR A CHANGE Sonny?
I have asked you to name THE BADDEST, MULTI-KILLINGEST dogs in history ... and asked you to tell me how many of them were RBJ in nature.
Please don't tell me about anything other than ACTUAL DOGS.
Please don't have one of your icustomers come on here and tell me their dogs are "doing well for themselves," as if that has the first flippin' thing to do with ACTUAL MATCHES or THE BADDEST dogs ever.
This database has nearly 40,000 dogs in it now. Of all kinds of different bloodlines. So how to prove who-is-what is really rather simple :idea:
Simply go to the Search Engine and plug-in 5xWs only. You'll see several RBJ dogs but DOZENS MORE ELI/CARVER DOGS.
But then raise the bar to 6xW ... then 7xW ... then 8xW ... and guess what? NOTHING.
With every "upgrade," the RBJ dogs disappear.
But you will still see a bunch of Eli, Eli/Carver, and Jeep/Rascal dogs ... so what do you think that means, Sonny?
It means that you don't know what you're talking about. It means your original claims are wrong.
(BTW: I also don't see any of yours past 3 wins ... but there are a boatload of mine ;) )
Speaking of coffee, why don't you wake up and smell some, Sonny?:
Eli/Carver crosses are the winningest, and the baddest dogs on earth. Not RBJ. :coffee:
This is a matter of FACT, not "opinion." I was just trying to correct you, not get into an insult-fest.
So unless you have FACTS to the contrary, admit YOU WERE WRONG ... and sit down and shut up.
There is nothing to debate; there is no reason to insult each other any further.
Jack
if I was a MOD I would have locked this thread b4 it turned this ugly...smh
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRICKFACE
Well, sometimes ugly is necessary.
Sorry about that, if it offends some people, but when a man stands up and screams something's "the best" he should at least have THE FACTS to back it up.
The whole point of this resource, Search Engine, and Statistics Page, is to separate FACTS from "claims" ...
Sonny couldn't stick to the facts.
Again, all you gotta do is plug-in 5xW on the search engine ... then raise the bar to 6xW ... then 7xW ... then 8xW ... and watch those RBJ dogs disappear off the map ... while the Eli, Eli/Carver and a few others remain on there. Again, this database has nearly 40,000 dogs in it now, and the facts are right there to be seen as to WHICH dogs are the baddest of the bad.
All Sonny had to do is 1) roll out that list I asked him for, or 2) admit such a list was puny compared to other crosses, retract his statements, and admit he was wrong.
Yeah, RBJ dogs are a good, solid line ... but they're NOT the killingest.
I was able to admit Sonny was right on another topic last year (which moment he always tries to re-live), but the FACTS are against him here.
Unfortunately, Sonny does not have the ability to a) admit he was wrong or b) shut up.
Instead, he wants to call me a "liar" (when I have listed actual facts and actual dogs), and a "fool" (even though the facts are against him, not me).
I agree, we should be able to have a civil dialogue about dog quality.
Normally, intelligent, honest people just roll-out the facts, compare them, and let the chips fall where they may.
I have been trying to do this all along, produce FACTS for an interesting debate, and Sonny keeps changing the subject to something else.
Until finally he just wants to "go there," call names, and dredge-up that past.
But I am down for that too, as (once again) the facts are with me, not him.
Jack
It's actually still a debate. Nobody threatening lives or family.. it's two men who have a string opinion on the subject. I just remembered something Cuban missing link once told me. He said, " Those redboy jocko dogs are gaaaame. But just add a quarter Hollingsworth, and they are deadgame. " I think that sums it up.
A succinct summation.
The truth hurts don't it jack ,you do know Edgar Allen Poe was a crazy writer jack kinda had hallucinations from all that dope ,that's when he did his writing ,(hint) jack .get off that shit !!!!!!!!!! You keep coming up with shit you don't know ,nothing you ever say is from what you have seen but what you have heard and that is the truth and you know it ,and you did write me a bad check and I did go get it !Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I am gonna tell you what you need to research ,and that is the bible ,the HOLY BIBLE,being you don't believe in god ,that is probably your problem !Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
I am not hurt; I don't do dope.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
Is is possible for you to stick to the facts without losing it?
I write clearly and precisely, and the only truths that have been told have come from my keyboard.
Sonny. Stick to the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
Please stop screaming about The Bible and hallucinations.
Go do a search on those multi-winning dogs and tell me what percentages of 7xW (and greater) are RBJ ... and what percentage are some kind of Eli- Eli/Carver cross?
Can you do that without losing it, Sonny?
Jack
By the way, Sonny, how many of your dogs have won more than 3 "hog hunts" in 20 years of breeding dogs?
If yours are "the baddest," and have "everything," shouldn't they have mustered-up more than 3 wins by now after 2 decades?
Especially since most of these so-called shows are in your own backyard ...
Jack
Jack u know I sold little jack to trad.that is a flat out lie .
And Trad told me he had him on your yard and you said the dog "got stolen" ...
Look, let's just drop the past BS and concentrate on the topic.
How many 4x, 5x, and 6x+ winners have come from ANY of your dogs (crosses, etc.) in 20 years of running "the killingest" bloodline on earth?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Jack
Jack I don't fight dogs ,but if I did I bet they could take yours!!!and your so called one match you had you lost .then you based your yard on a loser .jack you are still a legend in your on mind ,and I can all ways tell how green a man is when he says he has a poncho dog ,it's like they get blues first then poncho vise grip dogs then the real ones !Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Now why would I keep his dog on my yard when he has a nice place in fact he had two places .Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I have not lost it ,you put to much trust in your computer ,now I wonder who put all these winners in the computer .Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Jack if you think I am going to put on the internet that I have fought my dogs and won ex amount of times you are crazy ! Like I said I don't fight dogs nor sale dogs to fight!!
I believe Evolution hit one out of the park. The subject is beat to death but a great topic and a great series of posts, and I doubt either group will waiver. One side is too stubborn to quit and the other is too dumb stop. Maybe I am talking about the dogs, maybe I am not. LOL.
Good topic. Great response Evolution. And since we are beating the proverbial dead horse, I still say it was a way cool statement, regardless of which mindset proves to be true. EWO
Yeah, okay, blues then my dogs, whatever :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by waccamaw
You're just getting childish and showing your true colors: lame.
Sonny, my dogs have won actual contests on international conventions, yours haven't.
I have never heard of a Waccamaw dog facing, or being used by, a top competitor in the dogs.
I have never seen a single Waccamaw Champion who actually had a bona-fide match into a bona-fide Champion. EVER.
The only place your "Champions" win is in your back yard. The highest actual rank I have seen from a customer of yours is a 2xW.
You say you "would never" put one of your Champions online, yet you've added several of them.
What is glaringly missing is ANY serious multi-winning dogs, either from you directly, or from any cross ever being made with any dog from you :idea:
They are all Champions known only to you, and have never faced any known Champion "out there."
So why no SERIOUS multi-winners out of your yard then? In 20 years. I mean, if they're the "killingest."
Seriously, what legit, champion-versus-champion match has one of your dog EVER had? I mean, EVER?
I can name you MULTIPLE such contests involving mine, involving some of the best dogmen on the planet.
So, as far as I can tell, you're the one surrounded by green guys. I've got some pretty well-known folks who have used my dogs.
In fact, as far as green goes, you're here on my board, are you not? If I only have green people following me, how green are you then to be here?
Sonny, you may recall that I am the guy who put you on the map when I ran an article about you in my mag back in 1999. Before that, it was Wacca-who?
My dogs have won more titles, more matches, more trophies, in more states, in more countries, and they have beaten bigger names than yours ever have or ever will.
But this has nothing to do with the subject.
Look I am tired of insulting you, and being insulted by you, okay Sonny?
So let's see if we can drop the childish bullshit.
I have asked you multiple times to please stay on the topic, and this is the last time I am asking.
I am not going to respond to any more crap.
So STAY ON POINT. No personal insults. From me or from you.
Let's just stick to FACTS or give admission that the facts don't exist. Can we do that?
What dog from your program has ever beaten a legitimate, known Champion in over 20 years of breeding dogs?
What dog from your program, or from any cross of any bloodline into your program, has EVER won more than 3 hunts?
Run a Search on 7x winners, out of 40,000 dogs here, and tell me how many of them (and beyond) are RBJ ... and how many are some kind of Eli/Carver cross?
I will be happy to answer those questions myself.
Can you answer these questions happily as well?
Jack
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeartWarrior
Well said! I agree!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
What a pun on words.. can't believe I didn't think of it. I'm officially an ewo fan.
I've always been an EWO fan :lol:
I am a EWO fan also Ca. Jack, and all these other fellows that put up with me. EWO appears to be a dog man going places. Have enjoyed our personnel chats immensely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeartWarrior
I basically agree with your thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull Committed
As I mentioned, the winningest, baddest dogs from my line were mostly with Eli/Chinaman influence.
The Poncho/Mayday dogs I had were TANKS ... VERY solid dogs that BEAT two Grand Champions ... with at least 50 wins and 15 Champions produced ... and yet ONLY ONE made it to a 5xW.
That one dog that made it to a 5xW was a very badass, finishing bitch Nastyville's Gr Ch Ms. Serious ... and she had a touch of Eli in her through Wynn's Lina.
By all accounts, Gr Ch Ms. Serious was a deadly animal. The longest she went was :40 and that was pushing 2 lb into a Champion. Every other fight was a rout. I don't know if it's true or not, but Nastyville told me he collected a $6K forfeit from Cane Valley Kennels on his Gr Ch Baby Gracie bitch (this is said with respect to CVK, because I very much do respect him, but this is what I was told). I sure would have loved to have seen that one come off ...
But, at any rate, there have been 15 to 20 five-time winners + involving crosses with my blood ... and, I believe, Nastyville's Gr Ch Ms. Serious is one of only two that have anything to do with RBJ blood.
The other RBJ cross that produced a Grand Champion was Black Flag Kennels' Gr Ch Red, DOY, but this also had Eli/ and Boyles blood in it.
Every other dog of my line that became more than a 5xW I don't believe had a drop of the RBJ blood in it.
Again, in all of history, there are maybe 1 or 2 RBJ dogs that have gone beyond 6x winners ... but MULTIPLE Eli/Carver dogs have done so.
Jack
PS: This really could become an interesting topic for discussion, if everyone can just stick to facts and can 1) stop baseless cheerleading claims, and 2) stop the insults. We might start getting some productive ideas generated, actually.
LOL, I am a fan of you both :hatsoff:Quote:
Originally Posted by CYJ
I don't see the problem in this thread. Things just got more interesting. Keep it going Jack! & PLEASE do not delete any posts! These are great posts about the breed. :) Thanks guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by BRICKFACE
We have stuff coming down from that blood and it's been super. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37962 Heavy heavy mouth. http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37961 and this bitch we have also http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=37960 They are 9yrs old.
Sometimes you have to shake the tree to get the apples :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Bull CommittedI don't see the problem in this thread. Things just got more interesting. Keep it going Jack! & PLEASE do not delete any posts! These are great posts about the breed. :) Thanks guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by BRICKFACE
Very interesting ... and very similar indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueprint
Would be an exciting candidate to cross with Coca-Rilla.
I was always too scared to lose my percentages with some of that stuff, but in retrospect (and with the aid of these research tools), you can start to see a pattern, and I wish I would have more.
Some of those 50% crosses were phenomenal ... some not so ... but a dab of it can really make all the difference in the world, so good luck.
Jack
Interesting ... searching the pedigrees ... the winningest Redboy cross ever had not a drop of Jocko:
Jacobs' Gr Ch Assassin II (10xW)
Here are some great, pure Bolio/Carver-type dogs ... Grand Champions of Grand Champions ... NO Eli ... NO RBJ ... no real cross needed.
- Meaddor's Gr Ch MelonHead (14xW, 1xL)
- Ch Robert T (9xW, 1xL)
- Color Bros' Gr Ch Chance (8xW)
- Abraham's Gr Ch Queen of Hearts (8xW)
- S.T.P.'s Gr Ch Buck (7xW, POR, ROM)
These are some of the great dogs I could find, with NO RBJ in there.
The list of Grand Champions over 7 wins with ELI blood in them is OFF THE CHARTS, mostly Eli/Carver, which of course includes Chinaman dogs and Boyles dogs.
There simply is no question that Eli dogs produce the winningest/baddest dogs out there. (Doesn't mean they're game, or in high-percentage, but they're BAD.)
The winningest RBJ dog, of course, was Gr Ch Barracuda (9xW), but again he needed 1/4 Bolio/Tombstone to get there.
There simply ARE NO pure RBJ Grand Champions with more than 6 wins :idea:
(If I am wrong, please show them to me.)
Yet there ARE Bolio/Carver dogs with this many wins ;)
This means pure Carver/Bolio dogs have managed to win 7, 8, 9, and 14 wins withOUT RBJ ... whereas RBJ dogs CAN'T win that many times without Bolio/Tombstone blood in there :idea:
Interestingly, the winningest Redboy dogs of all time (7x, 8x, 10x) actually have NO JOCKO ... they're Redboy/Carver, Redboy/Frisco, Redboy/Eli ... and Redboy/Loposay. (Only 4 dogs.)
So, AGAIN, the Eli/Carver has to be in there :idea:
This is especially interesting because RBJ gets BRED MORE than all the other RB combos, and yet can't produce THE baddest dogs.
The MAJORITY of the multi-winningest dogs are basically Eli/Carver or Eli/Bolio (including Boyles/Chinaman) ... or straight Eli.
Just some preliminary findings using the Search Feature :-bd
Jack
PS: I ignore mentioning old, old-time dogs and speak only of more modern dogs.
I believe Jocko was down from the Fitzwater Goldie ,Dibo cross...And we all know who Goldie was..Anyway jmo and some very nice reading here.
There was definitely some Dibo in Ch Jocko, but there was less than 5% Goldie.
A little more history ...
As for the claim of Jocko "adding mouth" ... here are some more facts:
Jocko's sister Ch Apples was bit down by the Eli/Loposay-bred Gr Ch Molly Bee ... while their brother Ch Argo was whipped by the Eli/Carver/Clouse-bred Ch Bumper.
So, hey, hats off to Ch Jocko and his littermates.
Three Champions in one litter is something we should all take our hats off to.
But, when push comes to shove, and when Champions-meet-Champions, they ALL got/get knocked off by the wayside by Eli and Eli/Carver dogs. Same with Nico, same with Zinc, etc.
The title of "Baddest" and "Best" is elusive ... and there is no shame in winning 1, 2, and 3 good solid shows.
That's all that can be asked of most dogs, and doing this is a fine accomplishment. Even losing game is an accomplishment.
Still, historically-speaking, and as a matter of ongoing strategy, the great thing about a resource like this, the input of old-timers, and the ability to crunch numbers and quantify statistics ... is we can start to see patterns forming folks ... and, as the elevation gets higher, we need to re-think some of the claims (as well as our own beliefs) as to which way we want to go in our breeding programs, if we truly want "the baddest" and "the best."
Wish I had this resource available 20 years ago :idea:
Jack