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What do y'all think bout female vs male and if u have females that can handle males ( talking proven males ) or run threw them to yall how impressive is that ! Or have y'all seen that from time to time with real good bitches. What y'all think! Thanks
It is almost universally considered retarded to match males into bitches ...
Most bitches are not built as powerfully as males, and (even if they were) oftentimes males will not fight a female like they would a bitch. I have had dead game males (to other males) that wouldn't fight a bitch. Gr Ch Hank was like this (wouldn't fight a bitch).
But some males will. Poncho liked bitches, and wouldn't start a fight with one, but if he got bit by one he'd try to kill her. But many males just will not fight a bitch at all, or (if they do) not like they would another male. So it's not going to be a true deal. And (again) if a male does go all-out, then they are simply more powerful than most bitches. [For example, Ch Bad Rosemary (who was deadly to other bitches) lost when she was put with a male.]
In the end, I repeat, it is ultimately a retarded idea because there are too many "intangibles" that are brought into play when you put a male with a bitch ... that simply aren't there in same-sex matches ... which is why 99.9999999999999% of the professionals do not do this.
Jack
I understand that for sure let me put a story behind it because it was a what have y'all with more experienced eyes have seen type ? Lets say a guy went and got some new blood from hours away and brung it bck to his area peps talking bout when you going to let us see the dog but heard what happen to the last few females so will not show ( this is more of a mini show schooling etc) the dog is almost a year old then lets say some one says hey I got a proven male we can look at her with and then he brings him out then add my ? With it. Again just a what have y'all seen ?
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Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
I think this sounds like rank amateur bullshit on pretty much every level.
1. The dog is not even a year old yet ... and you guys are going to look at it? Lame.
2. On top of this, the person just got the dog, took it from where it is comfortable, drove with it for several hours, and then wants to put this young dog in a fight (before it's acclimated to its new home and owner)? Lame.
3. And, on top of the above stupidities, they also want to put it against a dog of the opposite sex? Lame.
This is a 1-2-3 saga of lame, ignorant dog handling, nothing more.
No wonder so many people never make a ripple in the dog game, they do everything (and I mean everything) wrong :rolleyes: :embarrassed:
Jack
I did not say he just got the dog he had the dog for 5-6 months now ! And I did not say I did it just a what have y'all seen ? Put the story behind it to paint a pic ? Thanks for your feed back anyway !
Well, it's hard to extrapolate any real information by the way you've worded things, but I've done the best I can. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you say, "the dog is almost a year old?" Didn't you also indicate she's recently been purchased and has already been rolled several times? If not, maybe you could honestly and directly answer these few questions:
How old is the dog now?
How many times has it been rolled already?
What, exactly, is a "mini show" ... and why is it being conducted with a yearling, at all, let alone against something of the opposite sex?
And, finally, does any of this nonsense you're asking about sound like what a top level guy would do with his top level dogs ... or does it all pretty much sound like rank beginners monkeying with young dogs with no patience or professionalism whatsoever?
Thanks,
Jack
U say yourself peps doing things with your blood you wld not do with your dogs you can not control every thing! I will make this story as clear as I can! ( it's a story) guy picks up female at 4-5 months see great signs see that's what she loves to do months go bye dog showing high energy great wind etc ( the hound running bout 2 hours on the mill at 10 months) he been spending time with the the dog loves hers and take care of her like the breeder made him promise! But she so game he can not help but to school her ( mini show) to shut peps up cause they mad he got some new and they running same type stuff ! Now the BREEDER tells him to wait till she is round 2 or so but his dog his call!! Why because she show so good. But after the male schooling he will finally listen to the breeder. Like I said just a what have Yall seen before ?!!! Bout it
This like Jack just said sounds lile a bunch of clowns who have dogs and will never go any where with them beyond the back yard. Why in the hell would one run a 10 month old on a mill for two hrs? And how in the hell can you say a pup is so game by just acting good? Sounds to me like YOU did some amateurish shit and now you want others to Co-Sign the bullshit. Bunch of idiots to me. Yis Ole ManQuote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
If I was the breeder I wld feel the same way but once some one makes a promise and takes the dog what can u do??? Good thing is the story had a good ending the dog is fine. Guess that ? was crazy and no one has seen or heard of that thanks anyway .Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
I said I did not do it can you read!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
It is a bad idea all the way around. I am sure there are a percentage of males that will go all out on a bitch but I think it would be relatively small. I would also 'think' the percentage of females that would go all out would be higher. I would venture to say top notch guys like to be in more control than to leave 'might or might not go all out' up in the air. Top notch guys are in control of the work, in control of the feed, in control of the schooling, in control of the raising, control of the dog's environment, with "control" being the operative word. To be in control of everything and then leave something like might not go all out up in the air would not be very smart at all.
Does it happen? I am sure it does. Does it add anything of real value? I would say no. Are there females out there that could out perform a male at the same weight? More than likely the answer is yes. Is it something of value to factor in to a program. I would not think so.
It is just basically a bad idea all the way around. It is sort of like just doing something just to be doing it with no real return in mind. EWO
Great post EWO.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
This is exactly what I meant by "there are too many 'intangibles' that are brought into play when you put a male with a bitch" ...
Well said :idea:
And why the hell wld I need haters to cosign on shit. I love my dogs no one has to feed and take care of them but me!!!! Did not know a simple what have y'all seen ? Wld turn in a mini bash !! that will be my last post if that will make y'all so happy read all my post nothing but smart mouth typing coming my way on mostly every post I get the picture see y'all soon!!!
Thanks for a normal answer EWO that what I asked for !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by EWO
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
Can someone correct me if im wrong but wasnt one of bass' tramp redboy's wins against a female???
I believe that to be true. Although Redboy was listed as a 2XW lots of folks around the way discount the win you speak of, and then the double edge. No one ever talks about Redboy as one of the all time great match dogs. His contribution was as a producer, not both. His box reputation almost has an asterisk...Great producer, winning match dog ****one win against a girl. I can't think for others or re-think their decisions but I still think it is a bad idea all the way around. EWO
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Originally Posted by gotap_d
I've never shown a female against a male, and I never would. I have seen opposite sex animals used to school one another out, and from the few times I've seen it, most of the dogs I've seen personally were always the same dog regardless of what sex animal they were on. All of the males, with the exception of one, would breed a female if in heat without any issues, but once they were inside the action spot, all they saw was an opponent.
Thanks man another normal answer and did any female show better and if so did they turn out to be super bitchesQuote:
Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
Exactly. And since I come from a breeder's perspective (which is the guy who invested years of his time into creating the great dogs that people like to f*** around with and waste their potential), it gets old having people promise you the world in order to get the dog, and then do everything but keep their promise ... all the while "justifying" the stupid shit they do to themselves (and to the breeder whose trust they violate). So you'll have to pardon my angry tone when I see the same $#!^ happening here.Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
What can I do? If it's happening to a dog of mine, I can call that person out in public as a dumbass when I see him, and that's about it.
The truth is, only rarely is a breeder surprised to find a newcomer who actually tries his best, who actually does what he says he's going to do, and who actually AVOIDS doing the stupid shit that you've described here in this post, and who instead really tries to conduct himself like a professional and do everything right instead of everything wrong.
As EWO said so eloquently, none of what you're doing is valuable to your bitch's development. None of it helps her ranking or reputation to anyone who matters. All of it is only a risk to her potential, in front of weekend warriors who don't matter, giving absolutely zero benefit to your bitch's name or record to anyone who's anyone in the sport of dogs.
Based on your story and your attitude, I would bet a million dollars to a penny that ultimately this bitch will not have "a good ending" ...Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
Jack
It's just dumb and the whole scenario you gave was real amateur sounding. So game at 10months old ect.. It's something a real dogman would not partake in as it serves no purpose as most said . I can read and to be honest i think you were looking for someone to say yea my bitch kicks males asses all the time, so you could say mine too! I'm not hating calling it how i see it ,one of my many faults. Yis Ole ManQuote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
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Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
All of it just isn't professional. It is very amateurish. None of it makes sense. Either You are working with the dog, or against him. Whoever did this to that bitch isn't in I for the dogs, he's in it for himself, at the expense of the dog. If this person does this, he needs to get out of the dogs. It's really sad.
Once again the slow peps the breeder was against it !!! all the the early schooling and against the male story wld he be happy about the outcome YES if she is ok !! But like I said at the end of the story the guy has seen enough now a shut some mouths so he hears what the breeding is saying and has put her on ice !!!!!! What attitude y'all talking shit to me ! But like I sd you don't have to worry bout my stupid threads and story's anymore!! And I bet you she will be fine to bad y'all will not hear bout it thanks for nothing !!!
Look man, nobody embarrassing anyone. What's easier to do:Quote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
A: realize and admit that the way you are doing things is wrong, and change? Or
B: make excuses for why such and such things were done?
Reality is that if you continue down this road, you will RUIN a lot of good dogs. PERIOD
LASTLY, just because you feed a dog every day doesn't give you the right to fuck off the dog. By that rational, if you wanted to shoot the dog every day with a pellet gun, it would be Ok because you feed the dog? Your approach is negative. These people are telling you this to HELP you, and rather than heed the wisdom of people that have more experience.. You get pissed off? Cmon man. Be better than that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfY...e_gdata_playerQuote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
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months go bye dog showing high energy great wind etc ( the hound running bout 2 hours on the mill at 10 months
:)Quote:
But she so game he can not help but to school her ( mini show) to shut peps up cause they mad he got some new and they running same type stuff !
The last part really makes sense and can be applied to a lot of things in the dogs. Nothing gives anyone the right to harm the dog. Owning, feeding, etc,,etc,,,
And although blunt, none of the posts were meant to show anyone up or embarrass. They were opinions offered to help by people who have been doing these things for quite some time at a very high level. Thing is when people do things at a high level they are confident and passionate about what they do, and when someone asks a question and the overwhelming majority of the circle speaks against it passionately, that should be reason enough. Girls and boys in the mix is just not a good idea. I respect Frostypaws based on his posts. I believe if you had worded your post similar to his it may have come across a little better. But when you toss in words like game/ten months/show/ it spikes the passion and confidence of people who have spent time at the top of the food chain. It is, and should be, expected.
If I came on here and say my prospect just quit and I was surprised. I mean he went for 40 minutes two different times and looked amazing. But when we two dogged him last month he just checked up. I mean he pushed five pounds before with no problem. But that second dog had won two and mine just checked up. Damn breeder sold me a cur piece of shit. I have his littermate brother who looks better now that he has turned 13 months old but since his brother quit I am going to have to bear down on him before I breed him. What do you guys think?
I think the shit would be raining down all over me. And if I am smart I am reading and listening. EWO
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Originally Posted by evolutionkennels
the only thing I am guilty of is selling a pup or peddling in y'all words when they are 100's doing the damn same thing on the puppy breeding link!! The REAL dog men I have talked with round here that dont promote said best thing for me to do is keep making the streets happy and stay off line they have seen F vs M schooling before and sd unless I am in y'all so clled circle nothing but hate will came my way!! So thanks for all the help but NO THANKS ! If I have learn one thing I learn this keep my BI to myself and stay offline !! Y'all have a great life!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Jack
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Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
First of all, you need to learn how to communicate in plain English, not ignorant street jive. That alone would help everyone (who's educated) understand WTF you're trying to say.
Secondly, if all you did was sell the pup, then why didn't you just spit that out to begin with? If it was someone other than yourself doing these things, then just say that.
Thirdly, no matter who is rolling this pup over and over again, they're retards.
Forthly, who are these "real dogmen" you are referring to, and what truly world class accomplishments do they have? Because NO ONE, who is truly world class, rolls and tests puppies starting before they're a year. No one.
And finally, you keep threatening "not to post here" again ... and commit internet suicide over our reaction to this post of yours ... and yet here you are, every day, all day, responding and going over this ... again and again ... and yet apparently learning nothing :rolleyes:
So either speak in plain English, and stop threatening "not to post again," so we can all continue the discussion ... or go away like you keep threatening to do. Because the nonsense you keep trying to justify is offensive to the truly world class dogmen here who are reading it. So you might want to zip your lip and really think about that for a minute :idea:
Jack
I am no trying to disrespect anyone sorry if I did your site your rules . And yes I just sold a pup sorry if I am not a pro like all the other dog men on this site but everyone has there own circles and on styles . I am not a pro i breed pits for the love and like I said maybe the online stuff not for me but I like the site anyway it gots style keep doing your thing . And I can get mad fast one of me many flaws ! Lol I got more things to do anyways so I will leave it to the pros and just read y'all hold it down.
You are always welcome to post your ideas and beliefs here.
Just understand that "ruining dogs" is a sore spot to most long-term folks, who have watched so many truly wonderful dogs get destroyed by so many young, reckless owners ... that it makes it hard not to get angry when we see this kind of thing happening again. There are simply reasons why professionals learn to avoid doing certain things, and it makes no sense to violate these basic rules (good feed, allowing to mature, etc.).
Remember, "You can never break The Rules; you can only break yourself (or your dogs) against The Rules." :idea:
Even if you appear to "get by" a rule and bend it a bit, it will be a very short-lived and fleeting victory. Ultimately, the hens will come home to roost. At the end of the day, you and your dogs will eventually reap the results of that habits that you sow ... and it's as simple as this:
Good habits, repeated over time, will give GOOD long-term results.
Bad habits, repeated over time, will give BAD long-term results.
It really is as simple as that.
And what you've described with the handling of this young gyp are BAD habits to get into, nothing more. That is what we all are trying to communicate to you, so you might want to just accept this fact and stop trying to justify it.
Good luck,
Jack
Jack he didn't sell the pup, he was the one who did the nonsense with that dog. Game 10month old dude is a cliq who wanted a co signer to his bullshit. Real dogmen are not schooling opposite sexes! If they are then they are nothing more that BYB period! As for supplying the streets with that non sense he calls bulldogs i think it s a shame he is breeding dogs with the total lack of understanding he has a damn shame! But what do i know most only get mad when their card gets pulled lol ! Yis Ole ManQuote:
Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
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Originally Posted by ragedog10
Boy isn't that the truth ...
Shut the hell up u don't know me!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ragedog10
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Originally Posted by realpitsnobull
This thread is now locked, and you are the one who needs to shut the hell up.
Nothing you've said so far has been either intelligent, or worthwhile, and now you're getting insulting.
You seem immune to the universal advice from multiple dogmen who've probably been feeding dogs for as long as you've been alive. The truth is, you need to learn to listen more and talk less.
You have been warned.