Malabsorption

Here's a long story short.
Had a friend with a well bred stud dog, that got diarrhea. 6 weeks later, I see the dog looks like holy hell and still has diarrhea.
He claims he's put the dog through every worming protocol known and his vet has seen him twice.
I offer to take the dog to see if I can do any better at all.
I post that problem here.

To cover my ass, I first clean the dog up real good, make sure he's completely parasite free externally, hit him with some droncit and then
I put him through very sound worming procedures to eliminate the possibilities of that problem. With the help of folks here, we go through a fenben/pyrantel procedure and a TMZ/Zole procedure also. Of course, Immodium is given this entire time as well. All of this takes about two weeks. There is NO IMPROVEMENT AT ALL.

Jack posts something he had remembered reading about called Malabsorption. I dig around the net on it and it proves to have VERY similar symptoms to the dog I have. The problem is inflammation of the GI tract (this is a nutshell version by the way) and anti-inflammatory treatment is called for.

I discontinue all immodium at this time as I see it as a waste of time. It hasn't contributed to anything yet.
I hit the dog with Dex for two days.
I follow that up with standard prednisone treatment (2 tabs, twice a day for 3 days followed by 2 tabs once a day for 3 days followed by 1 tab every 1 to 3 days, as needed).
Well, about 4 days into prednisone, I see no difference and post on this forum, I'm headed to the vet.
I get home and he's got a couple of shit splats like normal, but one, was like a smooth potato salad. SO, I give it another day.
The next day, this past Friday, a nice healthy pile of shit WITH a couple of actual turds in the pen as well.
This morning, the same.

My own conclusion so far, is this is exactly what the dog had. Obviously, the prednisone is doing the trick. This IS all the dog is on besides his feed.
I'm sure I'll have to dick with the amount of prednisone and how much and how often, but it's obviously the trick. And the problem, by process of elimination, was/is malabsorption.
Looking forward to this guy gaining some weight now.

Here's a question for anyone who took the time to read this.
What do you think about a ONCE A DAY FEEDING program for this dog compared to a TWICE A DAY FEEDING program for this dog?
I ask, b/c I read where the more you feed or the more you put in your dog's system, the more it works or has to work and therefore, the inflammation could be induced. I like the idea of smaller more frequent meals for weight gain, but I also want his GI tract to have time to "rest". IF that makes sense. Any feedback is appreciated.

Jack, thanks for the suggestion. I typed in all types of things and come up with nothing but the typical. Very grateful!

http://www.globalspan.net/epi.htm

I think you will find this helpful, especially the treatment protocol.
I would not have gone the prednisone way personally, because although you might be seeing improvement now it is probably ony a quick fix. And you are not getting to the underlying problem.

It is important you keep good bacteria in the gut, and limit fats and fiber. I would personally get the enzymes into play and feed 2 meals daily along with dyne to supplement needed calories.

Enzymes and amino acids work best. You can get them through Thomas labs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

Here's a question for anyone who took the time to read this.
What do you think about a ONCE A DAY FEEDING program for this dog compared to a TWICE A DAY FEEDING program for this dog?

I ask, b/c I read where the more you feed or the more you put in your dog's system, the more it works or has to work and therefore, the inflammation could be induced. I like the idea of smaller more frequent meals for weight gain, but I also want his GI tract to have time to "rest". IF that makes sense. Any feedback is appreciated.

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Yes, I think it might be a good idea to try feeding him once a day for the reasons you mention.

His system would not have to work as hard to digest one meal as it would with two meals a day. so as you said, his system would get less of a workout with one meal.

It's worth a try.

Also green tripe has a lot of good stuff in it for the digestion. If you can get some frozen green tripe, you might give him some every other day for awhile and see how he does.

It's all sort of trial and error at this point. Do you know exactly what he has? IBD, SIBO, EPI, all those are very similar.

That is good news he is doing better on the prednisone and I hope he continues to improve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

Here's a long story short.
Had a friend with a well bred stud dog, that got diarrhea. 6 weeks later, I see the dog looks like holy hell and still has diarrhea.
He claims he's put the dog through every worming protocol known and his vet has seen him twice.
I offer to take the dog to see if I can do any better at all.
I post that problem here.

To cover my ass, I first clean the dog up real good, make sure he's completely parasite free externally, hit him with some droncit and then
I put him through very sound worming procedures to eliminate the possibilities of that problem. With the help of folks here, we go through a fenben/pyrantel procedure and a TMZ/Zole procedure also. Of course, Immodium is given this entire time as well. All of this takes about two weeks. There is NO IMPROVEMENT AT ALL.

Jack posts something he had remembered reading about called Malabsorption. I dig around the net on it and it proves to have VERY similar symptoms to the dog I have. The problem is inflammation of the GI tract (this is a nutshell version by the way) and anti-inflammatory treatment is called for.

I discontinue all immodium at this time as I see it as a waste of time. It hasn't contributed to anything yet.
I hit the dog with Dex for two days.
I follow that up with standard prednisone treatment (2 tabs, twice a day for 3 days followed by 2 tabs once a day for 3 days followed by 1 tab every 1 to 3 days, as needed).
Well, about 4 days into prednisone, I see no difference and post on this forum, I'm headed to the vet.
I get home and he's got a couple of shit splats like normal, but one, was like a smooth potato salad. SO, I give it another day.
The next day, this past Friday, a nice healthy pile of shit WITH a couple of actual turds in the pen as well.
This morning, the same.

My own conclusion so far, is this is exactly what the dog had. Obviously, the prednisone is doing the trick. This IS all the dog is on besides his feed.
I'm sure I'll have to dick with the amount of prednisone and how much and how often, but it's obviously the trick. And the problem, by process of elimination, was/is malabsorption.
Looking forward to this guy gaining some weight now.

Here's a question for anyone who took the time to read this.
What do you think about a ONCE A DAY FEEDING program for this dog compared to a TWICE A DAY FEEDING program for this dog?
I ask, b/c I read where the more you feed or the more you put in your dog's system, the more it works or has to work and therefore, the inflammation could be induced. I like the idea of smaller more frequent meals for weight gain, but I also want his GI tract to have time to "rest". IF that makes sense. Any feedback is appreciated.

Jack, thanks for the suggestion. I typed in all types of things and come up with nothing but the typical. Very grateful!

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SB, I appreciate the help. From what I understand of this disorder, it's permanent. So essentially, this leads me to believe any "fix" is temporary, or a permanent routine for the animal, depending on how you look at it. I will read what you posted and I appreciate the help.

I appreciate all the suggestions and advice. I'll keep everyone posted so maybe someone else can benefit.

NQK, had you read what I posted before you responded you would know that the condition can be managed with proper treatment quite successfully.

Man, this is getting a little ridiculous. This forum is for canine health problems, diseases and drugs. People come and post on this forum for information. Seems the current trend is to bash the hell out of someone for not finding the information on their own, by other means. What's the point of the forum? If you can't come here for help, or in my case, to simply share a positive story about something that WAS researched, experimented with AND WAS A SUCCESS, so far (knock on wood), then what is the point of this forum.

A lot of logic going one way from a lot of folks as well. S_B, I'll use your own words on yourself.

"S_B, had you read what I posted in one of my previous posts before you responded you would know that I ALREADY KNOW THAT IT'S A MANAGEABLE CONDITION"

Lots of hypocrites on here. Attitude reflects leadership and the attitude around this joint is starting to smell a bit.

No need to be hypersensitive, had you read the link you would have known Malabsorbtion can be reversed with proper diagnosis. Did your vet perform the blood test to confirm the condition before recommending steroids?

Or is the dog a Guinea pig? I don't have a problem with experimenting with different regimens, when the dogs life is not at stake. But if your dog looks like you described, he's dying an agonizing death already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No Quarter Kennel

Jack, thanks for the suggestion. I typed in all types of things and come up with nothing but the typical. Very grateful!

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You're welcome for the suggestion, and that is great he seems to be doing better 8)

However, I echo the sentiments of S_B: is this a confirmed case of malabsorption disorder ... or is this what you "now think" he's suffering from? Big difference.

Even if the drugs seem to be working, and even if you actually get the tests run ... and even it comes back a confirmed case ... it is still best to have the vet prescribe the exact dosages your dog needs ... because long-term steroid use is no joke ... and absolutely needs to be monitored by a vet.

Good luck, and I hope we solved the case,

Jack

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Oops, I said it's still best to have the "very" prescribe the dosages ... :lol: ... I meant vet :embarrassed: