Over 15 years in the dog game.

[Acesaun]

I was wondering if you been into these dogs for over 10-15 years and you still don't have your own line of dogs, your getting good dogs from well know Dogmen just off of the relationships you've built over the years does that make you a good Dogman or a Dogman at all ?

[Officially Retired]

I was wondering if you been into these dogs for over 10-15 years and you still don't have your own line of dogs, your getting good dogs from well know Dogmen just off of the relationships you've built over the years does that make you a good Dogman or a Dogman at all ?

I could write a book on this subject

This reminds me of a great interview I did with Hardcore Kennels, but I think the ability to reliably and consistently breed truly superior dogs is the halmark of someone who truly understands dogs.

Some people know what a good dog "looks like," when they see one, but they cannot make the breedings which will continually produce them ... so they have to "buy what they use" rather than being able to produce it for themselves.

Jack

[R2L]

What does it matter what title you get as long you do what you love to do.
Not everyone got the space and time to create their own line of dogs.
And some might be able to do so, but are crap at conditioning or taking care of their dogs.
Or then you have those dogman with a 4-6 generation of dofs, only to end up with average quality.
For now im happy racing, but if you do get to own that dog you dream about and which you have succes with, i can't imagine one wouldnt want to build around that dog. I would. Some people are to breed happy and/or are satisfied really quickly.

People who say, that aint no dogman because he never created his own line, are probably people that standing on the sideline.

[Officially Retired]

What does it matter what title you get as long you do what you love to do.
Not everyone got the space and time to create their own line of dogs.

Good points.

And some might be able to do so, but are crap at conditioning or taking care of their dogs.

True also.

Or then you have those dogman with a 4-6 generation of dofs, only to end up with average quality.

Not sure what a DOF is, but most people like to align "a lot of Champions" in their pedigrees, that have no rhyme or reason together, and wonder why nothing can win (or maybe get 1 out of 8 good dogs).

For now im happy racing, but if you do get to own that dog you dream about and which you have succes with, i can't imagine one wouldnt want to build around that dog. I would.

Nothing wrong with that.

Some people are to breed happy and/or are satisfied really quickly.

Works the other way too: some people are too show-happy, they run boatloads of dogs into the ground, treat them like shit, discard them when they can no longer win, and buy another dog with their drug money ... but don't know shit about diseases, medicine, breeding, nutrition, or anything else ... but they call themselves "dogmen" because they match lots of dogs

People who say, that aint no dogman because he never created his own line, are probably people that standing on the sideline.

And some people who call themselves "dogmen" sure ask a lot of questions and always seem to "need help" on a lot of different subjects as they pertain to dogs ...

Jack

BTW: This is not referring to you R2L, just sayin' in general

[Acesaun]

Good point being made but there's one thing that I don't agree with is
(

some people who call themselves "dogmen" sure ask a lot of questions and always seem to "need help" on a lot of different subjects as they pertain to dogs ...

You say this like it's a bad thing I don't care how long you been into these dogs you'll always have questions the only ones that feel they don't need answers from else where are the ones who are big headed.. Other than that good points made.

[R2L]

Works the other way too: some people are too show-happy, they run boatloads of dogs into the ground, treat them like shit, discard them when they can no longer win, and buy another dog with their drug money ... but don't know shit about diseases, medicine, breeding, nutrition, or anything else ... but they call themselves "dogmen" because they match lots of dogs

True that Jack

I don't care how long you been into these dogs you'll always have questions the only ones that feel they don't need answers from else where are the ones who are big headed.. Other than that good points made.

[Officially Retired]

Good point being made but there's one thing that I don't agree with is
([B]
You say this like it's a bad thing I don't care how long you been into these dogs you'll always have questions the only ones that feel they don't need answers from else where are the ones who are big headed.. Other than that good points made.

I agree there is always room for new learning, however there is a "yes" and "no" as to whether or not a person is going to be "always asking questions."

As I just explained to R2L in private, I no longer ask breeding questions, for example, as I have bred deeper into my own line than 99.999999% of anyone who's ever bred any kind of dog, who's ever breathed the air, and I have answered virtually all of the breeding questions I have ever had ... and I have busted a lot of myths in the process. With the amount of time, effort, and breedings I have done ... producing winners in every generation ... all tracing back to the original dogs I purchased and first bred together ... I sure as hell am not going to be asking anyone "online" any breeding questions, ever, about "what to do" or "where to go" with any breeding I want to make with my own family of dogs. (But, because of how long and well I have bred dogs ... and the same family at that ... I will forever be asked questions on breeding dogs ...)

However, with new drugs always coming out, and the dosages forever changing on old drugs, there will always be something to learn ... not to mention continual advents in nutrition and conditioning ... so there will always be something to learn here too. In this case, I know enough people in dogs with truly deep knowledge in these regards, and so I know where to go on the instances where I seek clarification.

So, yes, there is always room to learn. However, if a person has 25 years in dogs ... and has already asked all the right questions early ... and has developed any kind of competence at all over the years ... his questions will start getting fewer and farther between ... and he will be answering more questions than he asks. As well he should

Jack

[R2L]

Some are not worthy to be called dogman. Not because of the fact that they never created their own line. But because of the quote from jack i posted above.

For those who do take it serious it takes allot of love, devotion, sacrifices, knowledge and having to deal with the type of people you find in this sports, to be out there and compete. So for people to say/think they are not to be called dogman, they must have been on the sideline. This was ofc also not dedicated to Jack.

[EWO]

I don't think you have to do it all to be a good dog man as long as one is honest about what he does/has done and openly acknowledges what he has not. I know a guy who did dogs thru the 70's and 80's that never bred but a handful of dogs and his percentages were maybe .500 or slightly better. He bought dogs, bred a few, had some placed with him but what was a constant was there was always 8-10-12 dogs that were open to the world. He matched into some of the 'names' of his era and did really well.

As a dog man he was an exceptional conditioner and handler. He acknowledged the fact he had no desires to breed, create or sustain a line. Puppies were a hassle and brood dogs were a waste of chain spaces. I do not think that choice takes away from 'dog man' status.

I am a believer in that it takes all kinds to make the game go around. Some that do some and some that do it all and those that fall in between. Tons of great dogs are based from a yard/breeder who never did squat in the box. We need those guys. There a ton of dogs who did the box work at one camp but then was a prolific producer in another camp. We need them too. Some camps do it all. They hold their place as well.

I do agree with Jack that the Hardcore interview is a great piece. I think one should do as much as they can with their dogs, should do everything they can to be the best that they can in their particular situation and should be self sustaining when at all possible. EWO

[TopShelfKennels]

I don't think you have to do it all to be a good dog man as long as one is honest about what he does/has done and openly acknowledges what he has not. I know a guy who did dogs thru the 70's and 80's that never bred but a handful of dogs and his percentages were maybe .500 or slightly better. He bought dogs, bred a few, had some placed with him but what was a constant was there was always 8-10-12 dogs that were open to the world. He matched into some of the 'names' of his era and did really well.

As a dog man he was an exceptional conditioner and handler. He acknowledged the fact he had no desires to breed, create or sustain a line. Puppies were a hassle and brood dogs were a waste of chain spaces. I do not think that choice takes away from 'dog man' status.

I am a believer in that it takes all kinds to make the game go around. Some that do some and some that do it all and those that fall in between. Tons of great dogs are based from a yard/breeder who never did squat in the box. We need those guys. There a ton of dogs who did the box work at one camp but then was a prolific producer in another camp. We need them too. Some camps do it all. They hold their place as well.

I do agree with Jack that the Hardcore interview is a great piece. I think one should do as much as they can with their dogs, should do everything they can to be the best that they can in their particular situation and should be self sustaining when at all possible. EWO

Excellent post