If a hound(f) is purchased with a guarantee to be completely solid(A+) in every aspect of the sport, should the seller be expected to uphold the guarantee due to the hound(f) getting into a chain accident with another hound(m) of the opposite sex and being found completely free on the back porch while other hounds of both sex's are in plain view?
What do you think?
A man's opinion of what an "A+" dog is, is only valuable if the man has actually produced A+ caliber dogs that have defeated top shelf dogs.
If we can even get passed that hurdle, then comes the matter of honesty.
He was either honest or he wasn't.
That said, you can't tell shit from a kennel accident (especially with a male with a bitch).
Other dogs being around also doesn't mean shit, as many truly great dogs aren't all that aggressive and will happily walk passed angry dogs.
The only thing that matters is what they do in a pit with a dog of the same sex.
I would stop speculating, and (if the dog is okay) let him heal for a couple weeks (get him used to you) and then roll him with a talented dog his own weight.
Then you will have your own opinion
Jack
I completely agree, one of the best dogs we have ever owned a 2x gyp was a complete badass. She is the one who taught us that chain accidents truly dont mean shit. She was a bone breaker and finisher while also being one of the smartest dogs I've ever been around. I mean human smart, you could talk to her like you do your kids. Could tell her go sit in the corner and she would literally go sit and face the corner just like the kids when they got in trouble. Well one day we come home, our aunt left the door open, and she went outside to the yard. She walked around the yard the whole day not touching a single soul. In fact when we got home and seen her, one of the dogs was screaming and she was literally playing tag wit her. Would run up through the spot and to the other side while the dog chased her trying her hardest to get a piece but old Butter wouldn't let her.Originally Posted by CA Jack
A man's opinion of what an "A+" dog is, is only valuable if the man has actually produced A+ caliber dogs that have defeated top shelf dogs.
If we can even get passed that hurdle, then comes the matter of honesty.
He was either honest or he wasn't.
That said, you can't tell shit from a kennel accident (especially with a male with a bitch).
Other dogs being around also doesn't mean shit, as many truly great dogs aren't all that aggressive and will happily walk passed angry dogs.
The only thing that matters is what they do in a pit with a dog of the same sex.
I would stop speculating, and (if the dog is okay) let him heal for a couple weeks (get him used to you) and then roll him with a talented dog his own weight.
Then you will have your own opinion
Jack
Well we are in shock staring through the back window like wow Butter is possibly a POS, that has only looked good in school because she was scared and as we are talking, Lexus caught Butter ass and was giving her a whipping and to our surprise Butter wasn't doing much even though she was the dog with Free ability. Well she got out of the chainspot went to another side and laid there.
We were disgusted, our gyp who was next up showing to be a POS to Lexus who we seen as a hard mouth dog with no smarts, she wouldn't pace herself nor try to think, she would just try to use brute strength to go through a dog and had the Kill or be killed style.
We brought Butter back in, she was cool nothing serious. My partner said she can't stay in this house no more. I refuse to let a cur rest on my couch or eat steaks. To the yard she goes or else we should plug her. She curred, well i said it's only 1 way you cur to me and that's where it matters. He brought lexus up to the house and Butter wouldn't even bark or barely look at her, as lexus got closer Butter had no interest at all in engaging her, so off to the pine we went. I'm whispering and praying for butter to show me something. Well soon as she seen the Pine she starts howling, going buckwild crazy. Couldn't even get a leg over and she was squirming and rolling, feet dont even touch the dirt and her legs were running so fast i trip and so did she as she hit her face on the ground bouncing up and meeting lexus in the middle. 3 mins later and we were calling out her weight, Butter's weight that is.
Shortly after her first we got a Colby dog, ice cold gyp. Well she came over she was a pup but she was big about 8 months and same size as Butter. Not remembering that butter lived in the house when I came in with the pup i soon got the shock of my life crossing the door with this beautiful pup on a leash I got for free bc she was too big for the kids, here comes butter scratching at 100mph, and bowling balls into the pup.. I tried to seperate and grab her but her agile ass had me looking foolish. Before I knew it the pup was jumping around with her and off goes Butter up the steps and the pup right behind her. I realized I was the only one nervous thinking it was a fight when all along they were playing.
So that's how I learned real young that some dogs are smart enough to know when it's a threat. And that Colby pup stayed cold as ice, would play rough, i mean these fools would wrestle every day around the house out in the front yard and if you took them out back they were smart enough to not get into certain dogs chain spots. So yard accidents, or incidents mean nothing to me now. Animals of habitat, and some are just that smart to know when it's time.
I agree know a very good friend who got rid of two litter mates who got into at 7-8 months old. Well the male won 2 i believe one of those was 2plus hours and the gyp won 4, my buddy said when asked i mis judged them. Yis Ole Man
Talked to Kimsey Woods one time. He put it real well, from a breeders perspective. He said, "I don't guarantee dogs any more. Use to, but not anymore. There are too many ways for someone to fuck up all your hard work by not putting the dog first"
I would never offer a guarantee on anything but health nor would I accept or expect or hold someone to one. Too many variables.
The only guarantee we give is if the pup or dog don't star hunting buy 2 yrs old bring it back and we will give you another pup ,but they have to be brought back in good health .cant guarantee one will make ch to many variables in that ,such as the owners muck ups .
There u go. Can't get any fair than that.
If a man can not accept this then he is not worth doing business with. A man that stands behind his work speaks volumes of his character and knowledge of his dogs. Not saying just because a man does not guarantee a pup he is not a good man or doubts his dogs there are to many out there that will try and pull a fast one on you and lie about why he wants a replacement.
As for the original post I see no point in adding more to the replays that have been made there has been some good knowledge laid down here take it.
I always say, nobody can guarantee a pup to turn out, healthy and it's personality is about the only promise anyone can make and sometimes that goes wrong. We all like to think they will all turn out but,...don't mean they will. If you are doing right in your breeding program then you should have some clue if it may or may not work. If we could guarantee them to turn out ,then we would all keep the ones that are going to make it and wouldn't have to worry about making anyone else happy.
You have to many people that are in a hurry and try to start these young guns up to young or they try them to hard the first time and ruin them. You also have lazy slack asses that chain their pup to a tree and toss it a blanket to sleep on, a water bowl made from a cup in half soda bottle and throw it some dollar store feed here and there.
Also as far as grown dogs go...you can guarantee a match dog but, to guarantee a win is wishful thinking . To many variables to take into consideration such as care before and after, quality of keep and the opponent. Everybody likes to think they are going to win but,...it's not guaranteed as the competition is probably thinking the same thing.
If you have a dog get loose and run through the yard it really means nothing. If the male got on a female, maybe she reached out and grabbed him and he don't like to abuse the ladies. I've had one get off his chain and wander around the yard and never touch another hound but, drop him in the woods and he knows what time it is.
Then again I've also had a couple get off their chain and kill another hog on the chain and when it came time to hunt...wasn't interested. Yard accident shouldn't be a way to judge what one will or won't do...You weren't there to see it so, you have no clue as to what really went on.
That's a nice guarantee waccamaw. Not to many breeders do that.
I wouldn't buy an adult dog from which its owner claims its an A+ dog without ever seeing it myself before. If i find out he ain't, then I would blame my own stupidity before questioning the sellers honesty.
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