Pitbulls with outside trash blood in them.

[Foxman]

About 20 years ago. There was a group of people who approached me do some donating of blood from my dogs to test what all breeds of dogs were in them. They were trying to see what outside blood might cause them to bite people. Yet the test didn't fix the problem. I never had taken blood from a dog before. So I contacted a friend of mine who worked for a vet. We took blood from my dogs and several friends dogs. Now all the dogs that were tested had trash in them at that time. My abe dog was almost pure with minute parts of Terrier. He had like 1/1000 outside blood. Most of the outside blood in the dogs were English,Boston,Boxer and other bulldog types. There were some with different blood of Terrier types. The trashest were the Mayday dogs and I'm not running them down. They are as game as any other bloodline of dogs today. This trash didn't seem to hurt their gameness and they just had minute amounts of the outside blood. They had Lab and retriever in them. I had three Mayday dogs here from different yards. They all had the Lab and retriever in them. One dog that was tested belonged to a friend of mine. He was a two time winner and was Boudreaux and Nigger on his pedigree and he was tested. His blood showed to be a mix of Bulldog and terrier but had none of the origional pitbull blood. They used Amstaffs as a guide to the pure blood. The Amstaff's test showed they had no outside Bulldog or Terrier blood in them. So they were used as part of the test. Some of the Boudreaux' dogs I had here also tested pure except for added bulldog blood. There were five pitbulls that were littermates tested at one Kennels and they all tested slightly different in their inherited outside blood. Now again I am not running any bloodline down. I will say that picking up dogs off the street that were good game dogs and breeding to them caused this outside blood. Anyway I can prove this was all done but still believe there are good game dogs in all bloodlines. I believe it doesn't matter what outside blood they have but it bothers me a little to know the truth. I talked to the Tester the other day and the test has been improved and they have found new markers. This means the test is correct except some new outside markers have been found so there may be more outside blood than the first test showed.

[Pit Bull Committed]

About 20 years ago. There was a group of people who approached me do some donating of blood from my dogs to test what all breeds of dogs were in them. They were trying to see what outside blood might cause them to bite people. Yet the test didn't fix the problem. I never had taken blood from a dog before. So I contacted a friend of mine who worked for a vet. We took blood from my dogs and several friends dogs. Now all the dogs that were tested had trash in them at that time. My abe dog was almost pure with minute parts of Terrier. He had like 1/1000 outside blood. Most of the outside blood in the dogs were English,Boston,Boxer and other bulldog types. There were some with different blood of Terrier types. The trashest were the Mayday dogs and I'm not running them down. They are as game as any other bloodline of dogs today. This trash didn't seem to hurt their gameness and they just had minute amounts of the outside blood. They had Lab and retriever in them. I had three Mayday dogs here from different yards. They all had the Lab and retriever in them. One dog that was tested belonged to a friend of mine. He was a two time winner and was Boudreaux and Nigger on his pedigree and he was tested. His blood showed to be a mix of Bulldog and terrier but had none of the origional pitbull blood. They used Amstaffs as a guide to the pure blood. The Amstaff's test showed they had no outside Bulldog or Terrier blood in them. So they were used as part of the test. Some of the Boudreaux' dogs I had here also tested pure except for added bulldog blood. There were five pitbulls that were littermates tested at one Kennels and they all tested slightly different in their inherited outside blood. Now again I am not running any bloodline down. I will say that picking up dogs off the street that were good game dogs and breeding to them caused this outside blood. Anyway I can prove this was all done but still believe there are good game dogs in all bloodlines. I believe it doesn't matter what outside blood they have but it bothers me a little to know the truth. I talked to the Tester the other day and the test has been improved and they have found new markers. This means the test is correct except some new outside markers have been found so there may be more outside blood than the first test showed.

Very interesting! I'm not surprised!

[CYJ]

Ditto Foxman. That is a very interesting read. Why I always liked the Pete Spark's dog picture standard, that was shown on his magazines. Preferred the dogs with a more older standard Bull Terrier build with a rat tail that was swung down low. Not curled above the tail or flagged up when excited or in a prey drive mode. With a tight seal skin type hair.

Overtime I noticed as the dogs were being bred larger and seeing more catch weight dogs used. You did not see as many tight haired seal skinned bull terrier type looking pit dogs. The hair was courser and longer with some dogs showing solid blue black tongues. I do not wish to rain on any ones parade or demean dogs. I had my share of worthless curs like anyone else no matter how they looked or were bred.

Without a blood testing mentioned above by Mr. Fox, no one could say for sure one way or the other. Just my humble opinion of what I saw and R. Braddock brought to my attention one time at a dog show. We were watching one of Bramlett's Snake dog pulling events. I was studying this dog and when he got hot and his mouth came open, Braddock elbowed me and said look at that dog's mouth and tongue, that dog has some Chow or Chinese fighting dog in him. If I remember correctly the center fold picture of Bramlett's Snake. The dog stands just like a Tosa dog with his tail curled over his back with small button ears and the face mask markings like a Tosa.

Back in the early 70's. Mr. Pratt, Atlas Brewer/Rex Byrd knew about a yard of Chinese Fighting dogs that had been brought into this country. The dog man that had these dogs lived not to far from Atlas Brewer. He did try his dogs out on the pit bull dogs. Not to long after that a Chinese guy was on the (I've got a secret TV show) claiming he was the first dog breeder to bring this breed of dog into the USA. I was thinking that was a lot of Bull. Atlas took me, V.J., G. Cox to a dog yard that had about ten of those suckers running around on dog chain hook ups. This owner of the Chinese dogs had some pit bulls also. True or not was just a rumor that some experimental breeding was tried between the two breeds.

Another old time breeder that had some dogs that shows up in some bloodlines today. Had in his very last years some dogs I tried out. These dogs were devastating in a practice dog pulling exercise. Would tear a dog down and just up and walk away and no longer show any interest in the other dog. These dogs were not afraid or cur acting just seemed to become bored of the beaten dog. As I studied these dogs, noticed the hair was thicker and courser and the dogs had a thick otter type tail instead of a bull terrier type rat tail. Overtime As I spent time talking with this much older dog man. He made mention that there was a big male Chesapeake Bay Retriever that ran loose in his community and antagonized his dogs time to time. LOL

Why I was always more particle to the smaller dogs. But some of my last dogs were big dogs off the Carver Bullyson dogs. Sometimes the bigger they get the more mastiff or bull dogge looking they get. Two other dogs come to my mind that were weird looking. One was the picture of Ralph Greenwood's Granny bitch, the other was a picture of a brindle dog said to be a picture of Mayfield's Snake (R. Jackson's Ratter) that V.J. and self used in our blood lines. When I saw that picture, maybe just a bad shot or angle. I said to myself, damn if I had knew that was what Snake looked like. I would have passed up that breeding. The Mayfield's Snake dog was ugly as Greenwood's Granny bitch. LOL

With ADBA allowing these new fangled dogs called Bully dogs to be registered as a A.P.B.T. Our breed of dogs may be in even greater danger of losing it's truer bloodline ancestry. Which I might add I like the looks of those Bully dogs for a pet dog over a English or mixed English pit bull dog. LOL

P.S. the old timer I mentioned was just one certain breeding he had made. I tried these dogs along with R. Morris. None panned out and were put down. This older breeder bred many top notch dogs over the years that could get it on. One being the roughest, hardest biting bitch I ever saw. The honorable Edward's Molly Bee. Cheers

[SteelyDan]

Im not doubting that there is something in our dogs woodpile. I have never found much evidence that suggests those breed tests mean much though.

[Foxman]

SreelyDan, I agree with you that the breed test means very little. Mayday stuff is proof of that. They are good game dogs. I didn't tell the story to discourage anyone away from any bloodline. Just thought their was something strange in the pitbull that I have noticed in the appearance since the beginning of my pitbull life. The different appearances of pitbulls in general is a blueprint to what the test all show. They vary from slim hound look to Boxie looks. Some long bodied with a dashhound body and short legs. Some tall with a greatdane or greyhound build. Some thick long tails some short keen tails. Ears shaped ever way in the world that a ear can be shaped. Many an unknown dog was bred to a good bitch. That male was got off the street. If that dog could fight and win with bite or gameness he was bred to. That is where i think the weird blood came from. Just my opinion. Randy Fox

[Bolioman]

We'll its no different than any other dog, all dogs are a mixture of different breeds till a certain standard is achieved depending on what you are breeding for protection, sport, hunting ect once that dog its giving a specific breed name, we cant just disregard the fact that they are molded out of different breeds just my 2 cents.

[btru]

Interesting post for sure. I have suspected this for a long time now. As I read and look throught old pics it seems clear to me that around the late 60s or 70s I guess the dogs started looking very different than those of the previous generation. Seems like about the time the new crop of breeders became prominent and Carver and Beaudroux became highly influential. No surprise after hearing about all the funny business specially with carver and his peds. I've always felt like carver in particular seemed like a guy who liked to experiment. Doesn't matter tho the dog is what it is i reckon and those dogs were badass anyway u look at it.

[btru]

I would be interested to see test results on Chinaman/Frisco and tight straight Red Boy

[Black Hand]

I'm pretty sure Tom has been doing that cross for a while now.

[lonz]

Verry interesting none the less.