Early Starter v Slow Starters

[CrazyRed]

I think this term has been changed or used for more than the intended purpose it was originally used for. Was talking to my great uncle last night about our old trips down SC n NC years ago and other places. He says, "I always liked them slow starters because they finished strong." A buddy says," I like mines to start up early." They were speaking about 2 different things using same lingo. My buddy meant he likes his dog to appear turned on by 14-16 months. My uncle was talking about performance, start off slow, conserve energy, be smart while opponent running himself tired then the onslaught. See we have since changed that terminology to mean when a dog is on. He said we don't send boys to do men work. I don't care how you act at 6, 12 or 15 months. You still a boy, I only care that show me you're interested when your 22-24 months. Then I hope when it's time you start slow, don't let that adrenaline burn you out, slowly work your way in, be smart and methodical and when your opponent down, do work.

[Officially Retired]

Honestly, IMO, they're still boys at 22-24 months (comparable to 15-19 year old humans).

I don't consider a dog to be a "man" until after 3 years of age ...

Jack

[Milehighmisfit]

Jack,
I have heard a few old timers say the same thing and some even said if they were good at 3yrs old, they would be even better at 4. Has it been more common place over the last few decades for people to show and roll dogs around 2yrs old? I am assuming this happens mostly due to just a lack of patience. Also from your experience Jack, do you believe most or all lines are better at 3 or so years old or is it dependent on the "blood". Thanks for your time. I know you are a busy dude.

[Officially Retired]

Jack,
I have heard a few old timers say the same thing and some even said if they were good at 3yrs old, they would be even better at 4. Has it been more common place over the last few decades for people to show and roll dogs around 2yrs old? I am assuming this happens mostly due to just a lack of patience. Also from your experience Jack, do you believe most or all lines are better at 3 or so years old or is it dependent on the "blood". Thanks for your time. I know you are a busy dude.

Anyone with experience, and/or intelligence, will say the same thing.

Anyone who is trying to "test" dogs younger than 2.5 - 3 is a moron.

You can "start" dogs whenever they seem ready, and "bump" them in short practice runs, but you do not test dogs until they are fully-mature.

Same thing as you can lace a pair of gloves on a 12 year old kid, and let him have some short 2-3 round amateur bouts, but you are NOT going to put a 12 year old in a 15 round world title fight to the finish (even with another kid).

There is also a difference between "sexual" maturity and full-fledged social maturity.

A human kid can reproduce at 12-14 years of age, but that doesn't mean he's a MAN yet

He is not a leader, is not prepared to support himself (let alone a family), make important decisions, or command respect, anywhere.

He is still a BOY with a BOY'S MIND.

By the same token, so it is with dogs

A young male may hike his leg at 12 months, and be able to sire a litter, but that doesn't mean he's an "adult" yet either.

It is a biological fact that wolves don't reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-4 years of age. Meaning, they may be sexually-mature at 1, but they haven't become full, socially-mature males (ready to challenge the leader) until they're 3-4 years old.

Too many toothless, inbred idiot-dogmen understand nothing about dogs (or anything else for that matter), and roll/test PUPPIES ... and kill them before 1-2 years of age ... when these dogs aren't even anywhere near ready

Just because a pup fires-up at 14 months, for a min or two, doesn't mean he's ready for a full-blown game test next month.

You're just supposed to SCHOOL THEM, with a short bump every couple months, AND ALLOW THEM TO MATURE for another year or two. Same as you let a young kid develop his boxing skills, in short, amateur fights for a few years, before he is ready to turn pro.

There are basic concepts staring people in the face everywhere ... but some people are just too blind to see them.

So think "idiot" every time you hear someone talk about testing any dog that isn't at least 2.5 - 3 years old.

Some dogs, like Chinaman and Dibo, were not ready till 4 or 5 years of age.

A dog's quality is based on LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE (not "how quick they start"), and it is a fact that some of the better-performing dogs took awhile before they were fully-ready.

Jack

[Frankie]

Anyone with experience, and/or intelligence, will say the same thing.

Anyone who is trying to "test" dogs younger than 2.5 - 3 is a moron.

You can "start" dogs whenever they seem ready, and "bump" them in short practice runs, but you do not test dogs until they are fully-mature.

Same thing as you can lace a pair of gloves on a 12 year old kid, and let him have some short 2-3 round amateur bouts, but you are NOT going to put a 12 year old in a 15 round world title fight to the finish (even with another kid).

There is also a difference between "sexual" maturity and full-fledged social maturity.

A human kid can reproduce at 12-14 years of age, but that doesn't mean he's a MAN yet

He is not a leader, is not prepared to support himself (let alone a family), make important decisions, or command respect, anywhere.

He is still a BOY with a BOY'S MIND.

By the same token, so it is with dogs

A young male may hike his leg at 12 months, and be able to sire a litter, but that doesn't mean he's an "adult" yet either.

It is a biological fact that wolves don't reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-4 years of age. Meaning, they may be sexually-mature at 1, but they haven't become full, socially-mature males (ready to challenge the leader) until they're 3-4 years old.

Too many toothless, inbred idiot-dogmen understand nothing about dogs (or anything else for that matter), and roll/test PUPPIES ... and kill them before 1-2 years of age ... when these dogs aren't even anywhere near ready

Just because a pup fires-up at 14 months, for a min or two, doesn't mean he's ready for a full-blown game test next month.

You're just supposed to SCHOOL THEM, with a short bump every couple months, AND ALLOW THEM TO MATURE for another year or two. Same as you let a young kid develop his boxing skills, in short, amateur fights for a few years, before he is ready to turn pro.

There are basic concepts staring people in the face everywhere ... but some people are just too blind to see them.

So think "idiot" every time you hear someone talk about testing any dog that isn't at least 2.5 - 3 years old.

Some dogs, like Chinaman and Dibo, were not ready till 4 or 5 years of age.

A dog's quality is based on PERFORMANCE (not "how quick they start"), and it is a fact that some of the better-performing dogs took awhile before they were fully-ready.

Jack

100% excellent post.....imagine all the potential great ones we have possibly lost due to impatience and poor judgement

[EWO]

It also the old bull and young bull standing on top of the hill story. The young bull says, "Hey, Pops, let's run down this hill and F*&K a couple of those heifers". The old bull replies, "Son, let's walk down there and F&^K them all".

Dogs no different, maturity is a must. EWO

[HLC219]

Anyone with experience, and/or intelligence, will say the same thing.

Anyone who is trying to "test" dogs younger than 2.5 - 3 is a moron.

You can "start" dogs whenever they seem ready, and "bump" them in short practice runs, but you do not test dogs until they are fully-mature.

Same thing as you can lace a pair of gloves on a 12 year old kid, and let him have some short 2-3 round amateur bouts, but you are NOT going to put a 12 year old in a 15 round world title fight to the finish (even with another kid).

There is also a difference between "sexual" maturity and full-fledged social maturity.

A human kid can reproduce at 12-14 years of age, but that doesn't mean he's a MAN yet

He is not a leader, is not prepared to support himself (let alone a family), make important decisions, or command respect, anywhere.

He is still a BOY with a BOY'S MIND.

By the same token, so it is with dogs

A young male may hike his leg at 12 months, and be able to sire a litter, but that doesn't mean he's an "adult" yet either.

It is a biological fact that wolves don't reach SOCIAL maturity until 3-4 years of age. Meaning, they may be sexually-mature at 1, but they haven't become full, socially-mature males (ready to challenge the leader) until they're 3-4 years old.

Too many toothless, inbred idiot-dogmen understand nothing about dogs (or anything else for that matter), and roll/test PUPPIES ... and kill them before 1-2 years of age ... when these dogs aren't even anywhere near ready

Just because a pup fires-up at 14 months, for a min or two, doesn't mean he's ready for a full-blown game test next month.

You're just supposed to SCHOOL THEM, with a short bump every couple months, AND ALLOW THEM TO MATURE for another year or two. Same as you let a young kid develop his boxing skills, in short, amateur fights for a few years, before he is ready to turn pro.

There are basic concepts staring people in the face everywhere ... but some people are just too blind to see them.

So think "idiot" every time you hear someone talk about testing any dog that isn't at least 2.5 - 3 years old.

Some dogs, like Chinaman and Dibo, were not ready till 4 or 5 years of age.

A dog's quality is based on LEVEL OF PERFORMANCE (not "how quick they start"), and it is a fact that some of the better-performing dogs took awhile before they were fully-ready.

Jack

need ta put that shit on facebook. maybe then people will start payin attention

[SGC]

need ta put that shit on facebook. maybe then people will start payin attention

I'd not want to post anything on Facebook. Certainly nothing about gamedogs. Facebook is not a safe site, and you cannot "delete" anything, it is stored forever. They are just out to take as much info as they can for their own gain. Take a look at this article --

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/...servation.html

[CrazyRed]

Honestly, IMO, they're still boys at 22-24 months (comparable to 15-19 year old humans).

I don't consider a dog to be a "man" until after 3 years of age ...

Jack

I agree, my uncle is a real stickler when it comes to age. He said if you going to take a peak at them, least wait until they are 2 years old to see if they are interested. If so take a look and see what you have but never give a pup a grown dogs test. If you want him to show the ultimate signs of maturity, then allow him to mature. He knows it may be a few exceptions but most dogs in his opinion shouldn't see a test until they are 3.

[Milehighmisfit]

I recently recall something that Coy Dickenson wrote regarding this. A lot of the dogs that passed through his hands were based off Carver blood and he said Mr. Carver said most of his dogs were slow starters or late starters, something like that. Coy believed Mr. Carver meant that they were slow to start working real hard in a show, and not that they turned on late. I have heard that many Aligator/Rufus dogs are slow to get going and that blood is, in-part, in-bred off Satin Lady which was supposedly Carvers Ironhead x Carvers Black Beauty.