Puppy Seizures????

[No Quarter Kennel]

Four pups born yesterday.
Two chocolates and two blacks.
One black small - runt for sure. Slower and not super strong, but I've seen worse make it fine.

Slept with mom last night. It was cool, but not too cool and she's in a good insulated house. This morning, I find the runt and the other black one aren't moving real well. They are cold to the touch. Mom is blind by the way, so she needs a little help.

I put them on a heating pad. All goes well. They spunk up, well, back to what they were, still slower than the other two, but "ok". I pick them up and start carrying them to mom. The runt, is wiggly and doing fine, right before I get to the pen, this guy goes completely rigid as hell, tongue curls up and sticks out his mouth, bows his neck back, legs sticking straight out. (If anyone has ever seen a bloated dead hog - this is exactly what he looks like). It's like instant rigamortis. I figure, "Well shit, never had one just die in my hands".....I take a few more steps, the second black pup does the same exact thing. By this time, the runt is loosening up. I run them back to the house and get them on their heating pad. They both relax and lay out. They rest up some and look to be doing well again.

I check on them pretty regular and about 30 minutes later, runt is locked up AGAIN!

Their body tempt is good, so I placed them with mom. The bigger one, as soon as I put him back with mom, he tried to nurse, but then he locked up AGAIN, it lasts about 60 seconds and then relaxed. However, it seems to take a lot out of them.

I've never had or seen this before.

The other two are doing great. Like two different litters.

Anyone have anything like this before or any suggestions or ideas?

[loot]

I would bring mother and pups inside to keep an eye on the pups and her. Just because we think it's not that cool. They are pups they need to be kept warm. They are not old enough to control their temperature . Good luck

[SGC]

That's a tough one... I have no idea why the 2 black pups are seizing up like that but I agree with loot, bring them in and keep them warm, and a heat lamp over the whelping box is a help too even when it does not seem cold to us. Newborn puppies need that warmth, and they did perk up on the heating pad.

How are they doing now, a few hours later? Are they still going stiff like that?

[Nut]

I would never keep just born pups in a cool place. Take em inside. Temp should be around 28 degrees celcius

[No Quarter Kennel]

Each time they locked up, it would last right at 60 seconds and then they would start to relax.
Not a "fading pup" situation or bad milk or anything. Most of the time, it will/would take pups like that a few days to die. These looked healthy. Neither were on their side when dead. Both, laying flat on their belly, like their live littermates, just peacefully dead. Like they just went to sleep and that was it.

[No Quarter Kennel]

This is one of the best and one of worst places for anyone to ever ask for opinions on shit. Tempt ain't got NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS SHIT. Should have never mentioned it as it's not a factor, but I tried to include ALL information.

On a heating pad, and under a heat lamp, these motherfuckers were still seizing up. Two pups doing great with mom and NO HEAT LAMP OR HEAT PAD and two are locking up rigamortis ROUTINELY. They both died yesterday, one day old. I'm sure it's somehow my neglect or some shit. I must be prejudiced against black pups or some shit like that.

These guys would lock up, legs sticking straight out. INSTANTLY like a fainting goat responds. INSTANT! So rigid, you can stand them up on all 4's like a plastic toy. Neck bowed into their shoulder and tongue curled and sticking out their mouth. I have never seen anything like it or heard anything like it.

Room Tempt needs to be around 90 for 14 day old pups and down, when I said it was cool OUT, I didn't say it as cool IN THEIR HOUSE WITH MOM. I took action on the fact they "could" be chilled b/c I'm sure what happened was they seized up and ended up separating from mom and their body tempt dropped a little. So I took action for that. Turns out, that has nothing to do with it.

So if any of you geniuses have anything other than, "They should never be....blah blah blah", I'm all ears. If not, and you only have criticism with absolutely no input that would benefit anyone, then nah.....ain't interested.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Hypoglycemia

[loot]

Well maybe if you explained it better maybe you would have gotten better answers. I don't believe anyone was trying to say anything bad about you.

I always keep a bottle of Karo syrup around for fading pups. Sorry for your lost.

[SGC]

I am very sorry you lost both black pups. I do not think it is anything you did or did not do.

From the sound of it, and from the other info you added, it very well could be some neurological problem, in which case they would have died no matter what. I doubt you could have done anything to prevent their deaths, they just were not healthy to start with, for whatever reason.

I am no expert nor do I try to be, but I also like to learn all I can about canine medical problems and how to treat them. Seizures in 1 day old pups is not normal, as you said, so it is impossible to really know what caused it. If it was a toxin or something like that, then all 4 pups would be symptomatic.

Since you had said they perked up on the heating pad, that is what led to suggestions on keeping them warm. Since the other 2 pups are doing well, then temperature is not a problem. Nothing you have done, it is what it is and could be some genetic weakness in those 2 pups.

I do hope anyone with any ideas on this will post as how else can we learn? Certainly not all vets are worth a damn and us as dogmen and dogwomen should try to share knowledge and help each other.

I did not mean any criticism of your care, I know you take excellent care of your dogs. And it is frustrating to have a well bred litter that you want and look forward to, and to lose half of them 1 day after birth.

Again, I am sorry the 2 pups died, and I hope the other 2 will be strong healthy pups with no problems.

[CRISIS]

http://puppies.about.com/od/OwnerPup...In-Puppies.htm