Just my thought's on this subject I would like to here yours? I started in the mid 70's the bulldogs in my area then looked more terrier by meaning they had tight lips less hound dog looking. These were dogs bred from Lightener, Colby, Bullet, Hetrick's and then Homer, Zebo, Kingfish, Art, who I thought was quite lippy but his pups at least the one's I seen were not. I always found it to be a hindrance, a local dog that comes to mind was CH CHARLIE who had to have his lips trimmed for I think his last one or two. It was never an issue with me when it came time to breed because we all know you breed for gameness first at least I did and still do but my dogs always came out with tight lips. Now after all through the years I had to bring in new blood so I was directed to a dog called Miller's BONNIE who was out of SOUTH OF THE BORDER KNL'S ZEKE X MILLER'S MEANIE II. That was my out so now my dog's are Hetrick, Lightener, Tater x Faith through CH RASTUS, Bullet on top and Redboy, Jocko, Bullet, on the bottom this was a very important bitch for my out because she had all of my friends best males DEACON, J.R., RATTLER, and PALADIN. So now my dogs are starting to get some lip not all but a few. I am looking forward to seeing the direction my dogs will go in the future tight lip or hound dog lip. Yours in the Game Johnny